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Thread: Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

    By Will Dunham, Reuters


    WASHINGTON (March 1) - Human rights lawyers will file a lawsuit in federal court on Tuesday against Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on behalf of eight men who say they were tortured by U.S. forces in custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, sources familiar with the case said.
    The lawsuit charges that officials at the highest levels of the U.S. government shoulder ultimate responsibility for the physical and psychological injuries sustained by the men while in American custody.

    It was the latest development in a scandal over ill-treatment of U.S. war prisoners that has drawn criticism from around the world.

    The case will be filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Human Rights First in U.S. District Court. The two groups scheduled a news conference later on Tuesday to announce details.

    The groups did not state who would be named in the lawsuit, but sources familiar with the case said it was Rumsfeld.

    "The men represented in the lawsuit were incarcerated in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan, where they were subjected to torture and other cruel and degrading treatment, including severe and repeated beatings, cutting with knives, sexual humiliation and assault, mock executions, death threats, and restraint in contorted and excruciating positions," the two groups said in a statement.

    None of the eight men was charged with a crime.

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

    Rummy is inept as well. Too much blows over his big head.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

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    Senior Member Satara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

    oooh ! I hope he gets the book thrown at him... then I want the rest of those jerks, especially Bush to be next !

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    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

    This is one very misleading piece of reporting. The US Government cannot be sued as an entity, without its consent (an act of Congress). As an agent of the USG, Rumsfeld is not legally personally liable for any actions or decisions he makes in his official capacity as Sec. of Defense. This is known as the doctrine of governmental immunity, and is black letter law (i.e. an indisputable legal principle). Instead, for at least a hundred years, Federal Courts have heard lawsuits such as this as a way of addressing torts and constitutional grievances citizens have against various government departments. Even so, only constitutionally based and legislatively addressed exceptions (specific agencies Congress defines) to governmental immunity will be heard by the courts. Typically, the cabinet member heading the department or agency alleged to have committed the damaging act or policy is named as defendant. For example, the lawsuit aimed at forcing the USG to free Padilla for being unconstitutionally incarcerated as an "enemy combabtant" is (captioned) Padilla vs. Ashcroft. An even stranger artifact of the USG immunity rule is the way in which citizens recover seized assets (by the USG). The assets themselves are sued. So if the USG seizes $52,132.91 of your money, mistaking you for a drug kingpin, and you want it back, the named parties on the lawsuit are: you (Joe Shmo_SW) vs. $52,132.91. Among cases of governmental immunity, actions of the department of defense are obviously virtually untouchable, and with good reason.

    It is a bit unsettling that a Reuters reporter covering this topic would not know this and negligently lead readers to believe that Rumsfeld could be personally liable for DOD mishaps.

    Obviously the ACLU is a highly sophisticated organization, Why would they file such a lawsuit? Discovery. Should they squeek by initial dismissal of the lawsuit, the ACLA is banking that the DOD will be ordered to turn over some truly embarrassing documents it is without any doubt concealing.

    Why does such a seemingly despotic doctrine exist? Because the collection of all US citizens is embodied in the entity called the "United States", and the USG is merely an agency of the US. To allow all such lawsuits would always create an inherent conflict of interest, and a dramatic imbalance in power favoring the Courts. Free elections are the remedy. Blame those that voted for Dubya.
    Last edited by stant; 03-02-2005 at 03:26 AM.

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumsfeld to be Sued Over Abuse

    Or maybe pressuring that poisonous shrub to let him go ; he volunteered to resign over another prisoner abuse issue. All in all, I'd rather have had Powell.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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