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Thread: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

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    Default Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    The State of the Black Union Symposium
    March 1, 2005

    BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
    RUSH: Alright! "Taking more personality responsibility for individual health and the well-being of the African-American community emerged as a lead strategery Saturday at the sixth annual State of the Black Union symposium." It was the presented by PBS television talk show host Tavis Smiley. "The all-day forum focused on how to improve health among blacks, how to create a national African-American contract to address political, economic, health, and other concerns. Also tuning in was a live C-SPAN audience which showed lots of empty seats," folks. Empty seats! There were a lot of blacks there disguised as empty seats at this symposium. We happen to have sound bites. We happen to have audio from this. This was in Lithonia, Georgia, and it's the sixth annual State of the Black Union symposium. The panelists included Princeton professor Cornell West, Nation of Islam minister Calypso Louie, and the Reverend Sharpton. The agenda was an African-American contract on national goals. Here's a portion of the Reverend Sharpton's remarks.

    SHARPTON: My problem is when we have people raised up who are totally alien to any accountability to our community, that are imposed upon us and then supposedly that becomes a new view. So we must teach generationally that, yeah, we can be proud of a Colin Powell getting to where he got but there wouldn't have been a Colin Powell if there wasn't an Adam Clayton Powell. And there wouldn't have been Condoleezza Rice if it wasn't for those four girls in Birmingham. Bush picked fruit off of trees that we planted and grew. He didn't plant those trees. So we need to get that straight.

    RUSH: This is just comical! (Gaffaws.) This is simply comical! They are upset at their own progress! And basically what he's saying is black leaders like Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice are imposed on the black community, and therefore they don't count. Bush picked from the fruit of the trees that Sharpton planted. He hasn't developed his own -- what do we call it? He hasn't developed his own plantation? The liberals have their own black plantation, so it's a white plantation where blacks are and if you grow up on the liberal plantation you're cool, you're fine, but if you didn't grow up on that plantation and you get somewhere, you're illegitimate, and you are being forced on the Reverend Sharpton and his community.

    BREAK TRANSCRIPT
    RUSH: We go back now with audio sound bites from the Black State of the Union symposium, or, no, it's the State of the Black Union symposium, pardon me. Calypso Louie was also on the panel. We have some audio sound bites from Calypso Louie. Here is a portion of his remarks. He's upset at the loss of "testicular fortitude" among American blacks.

    CALYPSO LOUIE: Here's what I see. Respectfully. Frederick Douglass said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand," but power won't even concede to a demand if the demand is coming from a weak constituency that looks like they've lost their testicular for·tee·tude.

    RUSH: Now, ladies and gentlemen, don't ask me what he's talking about here. I have no clue. I can only make a guess, but if I had to guess, I'd say that he's upset with the Democratic Party. Is that what he's upset about? He certainly wouldn't be insulting the attendees at the symposium, would he, for having lost...? That's who he's insulting? He's insulting civil rights groups? He's challenging civil rights groups in the whole black community for having lost their testicular fortitude? For those of you in Rio Linda, uh... I realize this is confusing for you. Let's see, testicular fortitude. Ummm... Just think guts. That's as close as I'm going to get here. They've lost their guts. They have no guts. Well, I just want to keep the people in Rio Linda, I love 'em. They've been part of this audience since this radio show started in 1984 in Sacramento, and you have to be real careful because sometimes you can leave them behind, and I never, ever want to do that.
    BREAK TRANSCRIPT

    RUSH: Let me grab another audio sound bite here from Calypso Louie. This is from the State of the Black Union symposium in Georgia on Saturday. Another portion of Calypso Louie's remarks.

    CALYPSO LOUIE: When you go to the shopping mall, you see the mannequin. (cheers) The mannequin can't talk! (cheers) The mannequin can't walk! (cheers) We got black people in power (cheers) but they don't have power. (applause) We have black people with money that we think are giants, but in the company their white counterparts (cheers), they are midgets. (wild cheers, applause) Now if we want to get where we want to go, we can't focus on the house that has rejected us and our fathers for 400 years. (applause) We have to now focus on ourselves.

    RUSH: This is just incredible. These people have been fighting the same battle, Calypso Louie, and they're losing their shirts out there. It's just amazing to hear this. I mean here in the face of progress and economic advancement, they want to deny it and say it's artificial and phony and it doesn't really exist, and being cheered on out there, it's amazing. The generations of brainwashing that go on, that has gone on is tragic. Here's Thomas, Tallahassee, Florida. Welcome to the program, sir.

    RUSH: Well, I'm glad you made it.

    CALLER: Okay. Listen, I'm not a Farrakhan apologist. I am a conservative Republican. One thing I just want to illuminate, he was criticizing black people in general, but, see, you've gotta understand he can't just come out and say that. The basic core of his message has always been basically -- to African-Americans, black Americans -- to reclaim your dignity, stop doing things that tear yourselves down, pull up your pants, stop glorifying criminality, use self-discipline, emphasize education -- but unfortunately his message is always watered down by his alliance with black liberal causes, you see? You know, that's sort of his base. You know, and he, can't come out and simply say, "Well, look, NAACP, get out of the past, okay? Stop chasing ambulances." You can't quite come out and say that. And so he kind of uses all these flowery terms, which in effect is a slap in the face. Now, of course, he always turns back to the same rhetoric of the establishment this, and bash Bush and this and that, whatever.

    RUSH: Yeah, I know. And I hate to be rude here, I'm running out of time here, but it is, it's the same rhetoric I've been hearing from Calypso Louie for 16 or 20 years. They've got to modify this. There have been changes out there, and if he doesn't want to recognize it, he's just a dinosaur. They all are in his club.

    BREAK TRANSCRIPT

    RUSH: Let's see. The president of Merrill Lynch is black; the president of Time Warner AOL is black; the president of American Express is black -- and Calypso Louie's posse is black. What's the complaint?

    END TRANSCRIPT

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    No thanks on Powell and Rice. Or Sharpton and his ilk.

    The State of the Black Union is...too much government.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    Hey I like Rice,she freekin rocks!!!!!Even my 4 year olds know who Misses C is!!!!

    Does this gal got balls or what!!!!!

    Let the dems toss the Hilary card in 3,the repubs will trump her with the Rice card!!!!

    As for this million man sit in,gosh,isnt anyone going to admit being imbarrassed by Sharpton saying he is a voice of the black community???
    I guess the empty seats speak for themselves.

    I survived his talk show rise to public eye,i hope this is the tail end of seeing hin.
    I hope he just goes away.

    good job Rush.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    One day, people will realize that the so-called "black community" does not have one lone voice or one representative - and if the "black community" did, neither Calypso Louie (freaking hilarious) nor Sharpton nor CONdie Rice would be it. Louie and Sharpton are just really loud and for some reason, the media just luvs 'em. Them and people like Thomas Sowell. Gotta stick with the extremes....


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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    Louie and Sharpton are just really loud and for some reason, the media just luvs 'em. Them and people like Thomas Sowell.
    ahhh ... if only Dr. Sowell got 1/10th of the media coverage that any of the Rev'rends do ! Here's one of his recent opinion pieces which really got my attention ...



    but staying on the subject of the State of the Black Union, Dr. Sowell certainly isn't PBS material !!!!

    (snip)The anti-slavery movement was spearheaded by people who would today be called "the religious right" and its organization was created by conservative businessmen. Moreover, what destroyed slavery in the non-Western world was Western imperialism.

    Nothing could be more jolting and discordant with the vision of today's intellectuals than the fact that it was businessmen, devout religious leaders and Western imperialists who together destroyed slavery around the world. And if it doesn't fit their vision, it is the same to them as if it never happened.

    As anti-slavery ideas eventually spread throughout Western civilization, a worldwide struggle pitted the West against Africans, Arabs, Asians and virtually the entire non-Western world, which still saw nothing wrong with slavery. But Western imperialists had gunpowder weapons first and that enabled the West to stamp out slavery in other societies as well as in its own."(snip)
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-02-2005 at 05:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    I like Sowell but he is far too soft on government for me.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    By continuing to talk about our differences as creating different societies (black community, liberals, hispanics, irish, catholics, etc) all we do is perpetuate issues. It's not hard to respect each group, realize their heritage and viewpoints are important, but have everyone come to the same table and work together...without assuming someone is trying to take away their "rights" every time something is done they don't agree with.
    I

    I'm of Irish Catholic heritage..when my Grandmother came over, there were signs in windows "INNA" (Irish need not apply) - she got a job, worked hard, and lived her life NEVER ASKING ANYONE TO APOLOGIZE OR PROVIDE REPARATIONS. Her community's success was not based on people saying "you poor irish, we owe you something" --

    I say let's celebrate Black History (and everyone else's history) and work to eliminate discriminiation by making the discussion less visible. Statistically, Africans working in the US (not "African Americans" but people from Africa that also are black) do very well, because (like most immigrants) they don't waste time on social whining, they just get to work, do the best they can to learn the system and work within it. Respect for others (including the existing system) generates respect.

    Not saying there aren't alot of bigots out there, not saying alot of bad hasn't happened and doesn't hapen to certain communities...just saying we need to get past using these things as weapons and sheilds ... mere excuses not to get moving on improving the situation.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    If Sowell got 1/10 the press of the others...he would be just as ignored as he is now and as much as most people ignore Louie & Big Al. Don't let the media fool you - the majority of Black Americans are NOT that extreme - kinda like White folks.

    The last thing the "black community" needs is another Sowell or anyone else who allows him/herself to be bent over as the White Conservative Party's B*tch. Nor does the "black community" need another "Whites = Devil" a&&munch. There needs to be independent, moderate individuals who understand and can be honest about the state of the "black community" (whatever the H that is), can bridge the gap between ultra-conservative & ultra-liberal Black Americans, has the ability to develop a real plan for progression and be able to do all this while not creating an "us" (meaning Black folk) vs "them" (meaning White folk) atmosphere.

    I volunteer to be that person. Vote Amethyst for Congress.


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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    Got my vote!! I can see the debate now:

    Moderator:
    Ms. A, reports are that you were a stripper...is that true

    A:
    Yea, so? My opponent was my best customer!

    Moderator:
    UUH...

    By the way, my ad agency will handle your campaign at cost...or less!

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    I'm of Irish Catholic heritage..when my Grandmother came over, there were signs in windows "INNA" (Irish need not apply) - she got a job, worked hard, and lived her life NEVER ASKING ANYONE TO APOLOGIZE OR PROVIDE REPARATIONS. Her community's success was not based on people saying "you poor irish, we owe you something" --

    Hi Discrete,

    I believe Farry is anti-reparations and anti-handouts, so I'm confused as to why you felt the need to bring up Black people and reparations?

    BTW, your grandmother and her "community" probably look the part...makes things a little easier especially when those in power have determined that White = power and also dictate who = White.


    I say let's celebrate Black History (and everyone else's history) and work to eliminate discriminiation by making the discussion less visible. Statistically, Africans working in the US (not "African Americans" but people from Africa that also are black) do very well, because (like most immigrants) they don't waste time on social whining, they just get to work, do the best they can to learn the system and work within it. Respect for others (including the existing system) generates respect.
    I say let's NOT celebrate Black History because it further separates ethnicities and no one is ever happy about it anyway. I would much rather people be credited for their works and their ethnicity not even be questioned. I would rather see a documentary on Malcolm X in April instead of just February, or a documentary on Guevara in June rather than just in March. Black and Latino history needs to be fully incorporated into AMERICAN history along with the great contributions from our Irish, German, Polish, English, Native American, Asian-Am, etc... ancestors.

    Also, as far as Africans vs African-Americans, just more pitting people against one another. "THEY can do it...why can't you?"

    #1 - Africans and Black Americans are NOT the same, do not have the same history, don't always share the same skin color, and sometimes they don't like one another very much. I've had Africans tell me not to use African-American (I don't) because I am not a pure African and am a mixed breed. They're right of course - Charlize Theron is more African than I am.

    #2 - I'm generalizing here, but most of the African immigrants I have met have come to the U.S. from oppressive, murderous countries and are thrilled to receive whatever work they can find.

    #3 - Africans and their immediate ancestors (meaning their parents & grandparents) did NOT experience the same treatment - the inequality, the hatred, the lack of pure ancestral knowledge, the "keep 'em their place" tactics - that Black Americans have. Most have no idea what Black Americans have and continue to deal with, and really couldn't care less about it.

    By no means am I advocating reparations (my opinion - it's a silly idea. There is no practical means of implementing it and I feel it would only create more dependence on the goverment) nor do I think the so-called "black community" is faultless (I'm one of the first in line to criticize it) but I think it is completely off base to compare Black Americans to White Irish Catholics and Africans.

    Edited: After re-reading my post, I disliked the tone - not trying to be rude or to start "dra-muh".


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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    Got my vote!! I can see the debate now:

    Moderator:
    Ms. A, reports are that you were a stripper...is that true

    A:
    Yea, so? My opponent was my best customer!

    Moderator:
    UUH...

    By the way, my ad agency will handle your campaign at cost...or less!
    Woo-hoo! I'm off and running! Contributions to my campaign can be made at paypal.com


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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    I think we're saying the same thing - that continuing to focus on the differences makes progress harder. We agree that each group's heritage is important, but should not be a crutch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst
    BTW, your grandmother and her "community" probably look the part...makes things a little easier especially when those in power have determined that White = power and also dictate who = White.
    As for my ancestors' path being easier - I won't go down that road. The landowners and bosses didn't have any trouble picking out the Irish or other Immigrants (a look at the bright red hair, hearing the Gaelic accent, seeing what church they attend or neighborhood is on their application) - so I think to make a distinction would require the impossible task of "walking in the other person's shoes." - not something you or I can do (you can't look like an irish person or live in the early 20th century any more than I can look like an african american)

    I say let's NOT celebrate Black History because it further separates ethnicities and no one is ever happy about it anyway. I would much rather people be credited for their works and their ethnicity not even be questioned. I would rather see a documentary on Malcolm X in April instead of just February, or a documentary on Guevara in June rather than just in March. Black and Latino history needs to be fully incorporated into AMERICAN history along with the great contributions from our Irish, German, Polish, English, Native American, Asian-Am, etc... ancestors.
    Agreed...along with other heritages, backgrounds, specialties. People need to be celebrated as people, not groups. this won't happen as long as we wave the flag of "ethnic rights" rather than "people's rights"

    Also, as far as Africans vs African-Americans, just more pitting people against one another. "THEY can do it...why can't you?"
    I disagree...many people say their skin color is the impediment...this points that this may be untrue at least in some cases. Makes one wonder if it's not the color of the skin, but the people themselves (attitude, demeanor, respect for others) which really make the difference. Again, not in every case (nothing applies universally) but it makes a point of discussion.

    #2 - I'm generalizing here, but most of the African immigrants I have met have come to the U.S. from oppressive, murderous countries and are thrilled to receive whatever work they can find.
    and the ones I've met - coming from that background in some cases - have done very well. Owning their own businesses, etc...

    so, starting "from the bottom" isn't a permanent statement, unless people's attitudes hobble themselves.



    #3 - Africans and their immediate ancestors (meaning their parents & grandparents) did NOT experience the same treatment - the inequality, the hatred, the lack of pure ancestral knowledge, the "keep 'em their place" tactics - that Black Americans have. Most have no idea what Black Americans have and continue to deal with, and really couldn't care less about it.
    At what point does that no longer impact social policy? INNA was a "keep em in their place" tactic - should I wave that flag 99 years later?

    Again, I'm not debating which society has a tougher life..in most cases I'd agree it's not the european decendants. The point is simply that at what point do we let go of the crutch of opression, stand up and say "I don't care if you don't like me, I'm going to do well"

    For me, the same statements apply to blacks, handicapped (and I fit in this category), gays (sometimes ), or any other grouping. Not that some people's lives arent harder...not that their aren't bullys and bigots out there that need to be controlled, but how long do we use those things as reasons not to fit in and succeed?

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    I think we're saying the same thing - that continuing to focus on the differences makes progress harder. We agree that each group's heritage is important, but should not be a crutch.
    We are pretty much coming to the same conclusion aren't we? I think we're just arriving from different paths...



    As for my ancestors' path being easier - I won't go down that road. The landowners and bosses didn't have any trouble picking out the Irish or other Immigrants (a look at the bright red hair, hearing the Gaelic accent, seeing what church they attend or neighborhood is on their application) - so I think to make a distinction would require the impossible task of "walking in the other person's shoes." - not something you or I can do (you can't look like an irish person or live in the early 20th century any more than I can look like an african american)
    Let me clarify, since my statement came across as "my group has it harder than yours". What I mean is that historically, those that are in power (in this case, White folks) have determined on their own time who can claim "White" as their race. For example, Italian and Irish people were not originally considered "White", especially darker skinned Italians. Originally, Irish and African slaves were pretty much on equal footing, but in order to prevent the slaves from uniting and uprising, the Irish slaves were raised level above the African slaves, creating dissention between the two. Later, Whites allowed (for lack of a better word) Italian and Irish people to be a part of the White race. Don't EVEN get me going on how race is a social construct and doesn't even really exist!! I'll be going on and on for days, lol!

    So when I say your grandmother looked the part, what I mean is she looked the part ENOUGH to where she could be considered White, which equaled power.

    BTW, I am mixed: Black, German, Mexican, and Irish. My great-grandfather was Irish, so believe me, I know that being an Irish person in the U.S. has not been a picnic!!

    I disagree...many people say their skin color is the impediment...this points that this may be untrue at least in some cases. Makes one wonder if it's not the color of the skin, but the people themselves (attitude, demeanor, respect for others) which really make the difference. Again, not in every case (nothing applies universally) but it makes a point of discussion.
    I believe when people say "the color of my skin" prevents me from doing such and such, they are referring to the stigma, or negative stereotypes that come with being a Black American. I would argue that popular Black Americans help perpetuate these stereotypes -*ahem Nelly* - but c'mon - there are bigots out there that no matter WHAT Black Americans did, they will always be ungrateful darkies. Most people call Colin Powell the "exception" even though there is an increasing amount of educated, successful Black Americans. My parents were both born dirt-poor and were able to overcome oppression, etc.. to become two highly successful individuals. They are just two of many, many, MANY Black Americans who share the same story. So why aren't THEY the face of Black America (since it seems we have to have one)? Why is the Black gangbanger or welfare mom the face of Black America?

    As for respect, there is a strong feeling of resentment amongst Black Americans because they don't feel respected. How can we expect anyone to respect a system that does not respect them? If I said to you "you cannot live in this house because you are of Irish descent," how much respect would you have for me? Or if I constantly said to you "people of Irish descent are worthless, lazy, good fer nuthin's," even though you are doing everything within your power to change your situation, would you respect me?


    and the ones I've met - coming from that background in some cases - have done very well. Owning their own businesses, etc...

    so, starting "from the bottom" isn't a permanent statement, unless people's attitudes hobble themselves.
    Hmm..diversity amongst Africans. What a concept Some are successful, some aren't. Kinda like Black Americans, White Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic Americans...But it's funny how only Black Americans who aren't successful are the FACE of Black America.

    At what point does that no longer impact social policy? INNA was a "keep em in their place" tactic - should I wave that flag 99 years later?
    When social policy is no longer impacted by old school racism, hatred, discrimination, oppression, etc... then no one will have any flags to wave. Goes both ways, Discrete!!

    Again, I'm not debating which society has a tougher life..in most cases I'd agree it's not the european decendants. The point is simply that at what point do we let go of the crutch of opression, stand up and say "I don't care if you don't like me, I'm going to do well"
    I'd say most Black Americans let go of that crutch already. It's the media, social policies, and White liberal guilt that keeps trying to thrust the crutch back at them. Unfortunately, there are some BAs that are willing to continue to lean on it.

    For me, the same statements apply to blacks, handicapped (and I fit in this category), gays (sometimes ), or any other grouping. Not that some people's lives arent harder...not that their aren't bullys and bigots out there that need to be controlled, but how long do we use those things as reasons not to fit in and succeed?
    Great question! When there are bullies and bigots in power - and yes, they're out there, just not walking around in white sheets with dunce caps - it takes a bit more than just merely being qualified for the position.

    I also agree with you about Black people, handicapped people, and gay folks (I'm also known to switch teams from time to time, hee hee) and other people, including White people. All these groups have been guilty of having a sense of entitlement when really, none of us are owed anything but an EQUAL opportunity to succeed.

    I think it comes down to that "sweet moolah" in the end...


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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    I've found most africans don't like black americans.

    There are many who have a big interest in keeping the black underglass thing going.

    They used to let irish people perform jobs they wouldn't even let slaves do because they were too dangerous and thought the irishmen would much more expendable.



    Social policy is the problem to begin with.

    EmployERS have no real economic incentive to discriminate. If they see somebody's productivity staring them in the face, they'd be a fool not to take advantage, regardless of that person's skin color. EmployEES, however, have a far different incentive structure and the are where most of the racism in the workplace comes from. Unions are notorious for being racist(among those who aren't in love with their fairytale image).

    Black americans don't have to deal with that much these days. It is far overblown. I'm a black american, I was from a "ghetto" in New York City. I don't think I've ever felt any overt racism and I certainly haven't felt any systematic "oppression" outside of the kind of oppression government puts on all of us.

    I think black history month is silly. The way history in general is dealt with in america is silly actually.

    Poverty in america is mostly a function of age, not race. As people get older, they get richer. "The poor" in america are rarely the same people from year to year.

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    It's ashame that this race issue always be it white or black just seems to make people hate one another , not by any means of making us gear ourselves to become better people and work together .I just dont see all this racism where I am I dont know , I really dont have a good answer .

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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    I have no comment to this thread other than I kinda agree with CuriousJ.

    Other than that I am gunna keep my mouth shut before I say something that will piss the hell out of too many people.

    Kitana
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    Default Re: Rev's Al and Louis on PBS - State of the Black Union

    It's ashame that this race issue always be it white or black just seems to make people hate one another , not by any means of making us gear ourselves to become better people and work together .I just dont see all this racism where I am I dont know , I really dont have a good answer .
    I more or less agree with this as well. And while I don't have any good answers either, I also have to acknowledge that we now are sure that quite a few options which have been tried over the last 40 years aren't very effective answers either i.e. targeted social welfare programs, affirmative action, targeted academic standards etc. In fact it is arguable that such programs perpetuated and exacerbated the situation rather than improving it.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-10-2005 at 10:45 PM.

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