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Thread: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    I highly recommend 3" professional salsa/ballroom dance shoes. They are made with the dancer in mind and are comfortable for hours and with heavy use. I don't wear them to work because I am short and prefer 7", but I've worn them for salsa dancing/teaching/practice/competitions.

    Here is an example of the variety:
    http://danceshoesstore.com/index.php...sort=2a&page=3

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Quote Originally Posted by lindsay
    big green

    what am I doing that is illegal? Dancing on stage is certainly not illegal. I don't really understand that comment. I am an independant contractor, I pay taxes, and I am a liscensed dancer. So why does that mean I don't have a leg to stand on?
    If your paying your taxes and can stand an audit,more power to you,most of the girls in this industry dont,specially in hole in the wall clubs as you yourself described it.
    Where are you going to get a girl to come in and agree with you,ya know,someone else thats going to come in and avoid the "your word against his word"kinda thing and be as legal as you say you are.
    Again, I will use the example I stated before of author Lilly Burana, and her class action suit against california clubs, in which she did win.
    What did she win???
    She lost her job and didnt get any money from the deal.
    Thank god she could write huh?
    Most girls that file against a club lose in the end(99.9999%).They might win a few thousand dollars,but then they are out of a job,many times blacklisted from working in clubs in that city.
    The only person who wins is the lawyers involved.They either make a little money or get to fuck an entertainer for pro bono work.

    but all I want is my right to dance for a few years and not have arthritis by the time I'm 30.
    Then do something else or find a way to adhere to club standards.
    Just so you know,a hole in the wall has far less standards then mid level and top end clubs.
    IMO I think you should find a way because if your having this much trouble with freekin shoes,you wont last 10 mins in an upper level club with all the standards they set.
    And like I said, I love dancing on stage and I don't want to have to stop.
    I dont think you will have to stop.
    I do think you will have to sit in the dressing room or at home after work and bitch and complain about your feet like everyone else.
    The moment you start talking about legal action,your screwing yourselfIMO.

    I find it discouraging that a number of people "poo poo" the idea of challenging the system. These bars would not exist or be selling their outrageously overpriced drinks if it were not for us, the naked women on stage. and if I am a legal independant contractor, they do not have control over my appearance. I never signed anything at my club. We have no written rules about appearance or costume. I feel that this an "ego" thing for my manager. That is why I am challenging this.
    Just so ya know,people are "poo poo"on this because its like a bad nightmare of over bitching because your freekin feet hurt while you made all that money.(as you said)
    People are going to laugh you out of court,including the judge.
    My manager told me that men would not like this look. and that is his biggest reason for not letting me do it. He told me that he specifically wants me in three inches or higher. I said "you wear the damn shoes".
    I would have walked you to the door myself and had the girls toss your shit in a bag and bring it to you in the parking lot.
    This seems to be an EGO thing for you too.
    "how dare some manager tell me what to wear"kinda thing.
    As much as you think this world revolves around you,it does,just not YOU.It revolves around females we agree,and when you get fired,there will be 25 girls waiting for your spot,who wont mind wearing the shoes.
    but hey,in a hole in the wall,you just might win this struggle.
    I look at dancing as performance art. Why not? I know so many girls that take a lot of pride in their stage dancing and regard it as an artform that has been practiced for thousands of years, ..... not pole dancing only, but naked women dancing for the delight of men.
    You take pride in what you do,and you work a hole in the wall???
    I take it your performance art is reserved for those that cant afford the cover charge at a top club?
    You and I can argue over this for days and you still wont look any less like a spoiled prima donna trying to win one over on the manager.Look at the responses your getting from the other girls who see it as well.they see it because they live it and have seen it many times before from many girls.

  3. #28

    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Okay I am a bartender at a strip bar.....I have to wear all black....Although I am not an independent contractor and get paid hourly plus tips, I do have to wear all black....Which means black pants and a very sexy shirt...

    I asked my managers about this question...

    The reason you have to wear the hihg shoes is because its part of your " uniform "......I have seen girls where split toed jazz shoes because they are doing major, I mean major pole and floor work,, but they don't wear them all night on stage....Depends on the number they are doing when they are called on to stage,, however, they are not aloud to walk around the club like that, they have to wear 3 inch heels or higher,, why-- it accentuates your bodies..It makes you look taller, you legs look longer,, your painting and image fantasy for your customers..

    There is one girl I know who made her shoes comfortable....by buying a different typed heal that is thicker and sturdier...Still looks the same to me...

    But this is your job,, just follow the rules...Free country or not,, we all have to comply with what clubs want us to wear, why?? because these are our jobs....

    I mean that would be like asking the manager to wearing granny panties instead of g-string ,, you know what Im saying....

    j

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    If I were you, I would ask the mgr if you could wear them with a ballet costume, and just wear it for a few hours every night.

    Where I work we are only allowed to wear cowboy boots, tennis choes, ballet slpiiers, etc... with an outfit that matches.

    You might try that and se how well that goes over. I mean the whole thing slippers, tu-tu, and leotard, and dance to some music that fits.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Three inch heels would bring you to 6' 1". You could argue that your height may be intimidating to some customers, especially those under maybe 5' 10". Or some such reasoning.

    Of course that is not your actual reason, but sometimes you just need something that works. Just an idea.

    Me? I like 'em tall. And happy.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    I'm sorry, but I find it refreshing to hear of a manager who actually enforces a club standard for appearance. That's part of the problem with clubs these days. Nobody gives a shit about appearance as long as those dance fees keep coming in. Entertainers should take pride in looking glamorous and well kept. Dancing shouldn't be considered a "right" for anyone with a p*ssy! Guys may as well stay home and watch their wives dance around in bare feet for free.
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    High heels on a woman are sexy and flat shoes or bare feet are not. This business is about a woman being pretty and sexy and that is what men like. Guys come in the club and see a woman who is barefoot or in flat or low heeled shoes and make cracks about it and that is a reflection of the clubs image. Guys are turned on seeing women in heels. Historically that has always been the case. Look at centerfold pictures or porno movies. Heels make the woman, even though wearing them for extended periods of time while on our feet can be painful.

    Maybe there is a type of heeled shoe you can wear that will not be as stressful on your hips, but I understand why club owners/management want to enforce their dancers wearing heels at all times.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Lindsay, i know this post i already years old, but I am 100% with you on the topic, infact i started a very similar blog a while ago....it is illegal to deny employment due to physical disabilites (no matter how small in existance..) and to enforce one to wear a health hazardous shoe is simply illegal, and unfair. i say you stick with your argument and go for a legal battle if that's what it takes...to run to another club is just copping out in the unfortunately sexist system that we are so often exploited by...to be told to ruin your body "because men like it" is simply and outrageously puerile.

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    Featured Member MadisonM's Avatar
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dancersrights
    Lindsay, i know this post i already years old, but I am 100% with you on the topic, infact i started a very similar blog a while ago....it is illegal to deny employment due to physical disabilites (no matter how small in existance..) and to enforce one to wear a health hazardous shoe is simply illegal, and unfair. i say you stick with your argument and go for a legal battle if that's what it takes...to run to another club is just copping out in the unfortunately sexist system that we are so often exploited by...to be told to ruin your body "because men like it" is simply and outrageously puerile.
    Ok I know this thread is old, but Dancersrights brought it up again, so I'll comment. If you mods want to delete this thats ok, but I just have to put in my .02. It is not illegal for a club to not allow a dancer to work in their establishment. If a manager thinks a girl is too heavy, she won't be allowed to work at that club. If a manager thinks a girl's blue hair is too crazy, they won't let her work there. As an independent contractor, you still have to fit the ideal that the club is looking for. The club can deny you from working there for any reason. If she can't wear the required hight, then she should find a club that will let her wear shoes without a heel.

    "To ruin your body because men like it is outrageous"???? This is working in a strip club. If I had a problem with wearing heels, I would not be a dancer, or I would work in a club that didn't make me wear heels. When a guy pictures a stripper in his mind, that picture is probably a naked girl with heels on. That's just how it is. When guys go into a strip club, this is what they want to see. If you have a problem with it, then this isn't the right job for you.

    "It is illegal to deny employment because of physical disabilities"------ A person with a bad back would not be hired to be a construction worker if their bad back restricted them from doing the required tasks. Same thing here. If you have a physical disability that doesn't allow you to wear heels, then stripping is not the way to go. It is not illegal for a club to deny someone employment because they won't follow the rules of the club- if you don't follow the rules, then you can't work there, simple as that.
    Take the road less traveled- just make sure you have a map.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Madison, I respect your opinion, yet I stand by my side on this. If I cannot wear heels because it will further damage my severe injury, but desire to continue working in the business, I firmly believe that I should be permitted to wear a shoe that works for my health. I am not going to give up dancing any time soon as this is a fantastic opportunity to pay for my education, housing, and investments. Giving up because I fell down the stairs and cannot wear stilletos anymore would be out of the question. As long as I am not wearing hazardous clothing (leave it up to the imagination)...ommiting offensive smells or hazardous bodily fluids, look attractive, follow the rules.... I feel that it is up to the worker to wear what she chooses. In my opinion , the girl makes the outfit look hot, but I can understand why many think the shoe does...so what, maybe to some , my lack of stilletos is considered less appealing, but to others it makes me more....I stick to watching for my health and future by avoiding the platforms and still looking good.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    There's only one way you may be able to win this battle... wear only themed outfits for stage that would look more natural with footwear that has no heel. Try these...

    Hawiian Girl - grass skirt, flowered necklace, bikini bra with nude/champagne pink (or whatever most closely matches your skin color) ballet slippers (can't go barefoot for health laws), flower anklets

    Construction Worker - denim booty shorts, hardhat, reflector vest, construction boots, construction belt with (fake) tools

    Cop - standard cop outfit with black thigh high boots that have no heel

    Jungle Girl - standard "Jane" costume with the nude/champagne pink (or whatever most closely matches your skin color) ballet slippers and anklets of fake bone or leather fringe

    Indian Girl - standard Indian costume with moccasins

    Ballet Dancer - tutu, leatard top, ballet slippers with the ribbons

    There are a lot of themed outfits that actually look better with their appropriate natural footwear. Guys LOVE themed outfits, and the more authentic you make each one look with the appropriate hairstyles/accessories the better. Play up each themed costume with the right attitude and music, and trust me, they won't notice your lack of a heel.

    But the only way your manager may give into this idea is if you stop trying to pit your ego against his. You said yourself that you feel this is all about the manager's ego, and although he has legitimate reasons to be against it, you aren't going to be able to convince him to try this without gettting around his ego (and we all know that with most managers, ego is going to have something to do with it even if it's just a little bit).

    Tell him your health issue and provide documentation so he'll know you aren't doing this just to be a pain in the ass who wants her own way. Tell him about the theme costume idea. Managers know that guys love that stuff. Offer to have him watch the crowd reaction if he'll let you do a set in one of your outfits, and he'll see for himself that none of the customers are going to give a squat what's on your feet and will be thrilled by your creativity and the fantasy woman you project, which was big part of why guys used to love the stage shows to begin with.

    Don't say one single word about law or your supposed "rights"... if this guy is in law school he thinks he's the one with the legal smarts, and there's no way in hell you'll get your way if you bang heads with him about any of that (and there's also no way you could bring any of that up without it sounding to him like a threat).

    Also point out to him that because of your natural height, you aren't going to look any different then the rest of the dancers when circulating for dances because there isn't going to be any obvious height differential between you and the dancers in heels that the customers may notice... you in your flats with the other dancers in their heels will look closer to the same height.

    I have to point out that I had always assumed before that the high shoes were important to the customers but have somewhat recently noticed that aside from the foot fetish guys, customers have no damn idea that we even have feet. Try trolling around the bar some night asking all the customers if they can describe to you what you're shoes look like (no peeking!) and I guarantee you they won't even be able to tell you what color they are. The customers actually don't pay any attention to our feet and what may or may not be on them.

    Customers are men. Men don't notice what clothes women wear. That's what women notice. Ever have a customer ask you if a certain dancer is still in the club that night, and when it's a dancer you don't know and ask him to describe her, he'll NEVER be able to tell you what she was wearing? He may vaguely remember what color her outfit was, but unless it was a type of outfit that particularly appeals to him (schoolgirl skirt, stockings with garters), he won't have an idea in the world what she was wearing. If he can't remember if it was a dress or a pants outfit or a bikini, he definitely is going to be clueless about what was on her feet. I mean, come on, why do you think the light-up shoes were invented? Without neon blinkers on our shoes, customers don't notice we have any on.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    I'd think so.

    Let's put it like this...let's say you owned a business...say, a McDonald's. One day, one of your employees comes up and says "I don't want to wear the uniform, the material makes my skin itch. I want to wear a baggy t-shirt instead."

    You're ok with that?

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    What about platforms with a 1"-2" rise? I'm sure someone, somewhere sells shoes that look like stripper shoes, but don't have the actual 4" incline that standard stripper shoes have.

    I don't think it's worth your time to go through the system though...just fake 'em out.
    For the record, I can't see ballet slippers striking the majority of men as sexy. Some, sure, but we aim for numbers.

    Edit: oops, old thread.

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    I am curious what would be your constitutional argument?

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Oh, crap. I made a post here and deleted it by accident. The gist was essentially this. It's a scorched earth strategy, and if you're not willing to go that far, the suggestions from other girls re: short-heeled boots sound like a very good idea (often they won't NOTICE if you're wearing short-heeled boots, they scan as "boots" and not "shoes" and nobody bothers to mess with you about it.)

    But essentially, if you're really at your wit's end, you might want to get a lawyer to draft up some paperwork with the help of your doctor -- essentially, a statement in thick legalese that means they're liable for damages if anything unusual about the working environment proves injurious to you. Act all conciliatory and say "I've decided to wear the shoes after all, but my doctor said I had to get you to sign this first," and either they're idiots and sign it, or they think about it first and let you wear your own damn shoes.

    They might also fire you (you'd have a good legal case for that, probably, as long as YOU haven't signed all your rights away) so only do this if you're at your wit's end.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    ^ This is not true. You cannot "save a job" by going to a lawyer and a doctor for a note saying "please excuse Bambi from dancing. She has bad hips and cannot wear the required uniform for the job. Also, floor dancing causes her hip problems to flare up. We recommend that she go barefoot and do as few dance moves as possible."

    This would help the CLUB if she were to sue. I mean, come on, she cannot do the work required in the "uniform" required. The club would have legally backed basis to let her go. She would be laughed out of court.

    If you cannot do the job in the way that you are required to do the job, the company (no matter which company it is) is not required to retain your services in any way, shape, or form. Can't wear the shoes or do the moves? Fine, you can be a waitress...or a bartender. Oh, don't have experience? Fine, there's the door. They've offered you their other positions and you declined because you won't make as much money? That's your problem. If the company does not have a need for you in other areas, they have the right to let you go.

    Thinking otherwise is just wishful thinking and doing a lawsuit on the whole thing is just going to cost you money and, most likely, prevent you from getting work in the same field permanently.

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Hmm. ARE they employing her? Are they taking out insurance so she can get worker's comp, and paying her an hourly wage, giving her tax forms, etc?

    Or is she an independent contractor?

    Because I'm not sure they can legally require an independent contractor to wear a specific uniform.

    Someone who knows more, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Quote Originally Posted by thechaosfairy
    Hmm. ARE they employing her? Are they taking out insurance so she can get worker's comp, and paying her an hourly wage, giving her tax forms, etc?

    Or is she an independent contractor?

    Because I'm not sure they can legally require an independent contractor to wear a specific uniform.

    Someone who knows more, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
    An independent contractor still has to follow the rules of the club. If the independent contractor doesn't meet the standards of the club, or doens't want to follow the rules, then the club owner/manager can choose to not let that independent contracter do her business at that club anymore. For example, if this was a gown club, and the independent contracter didn't want to wear a gown or meet the dress requirement, then the manager could choose to not allow that dancer to work at the club anymore. Same with shoes- if a certain height is required and the dancer doesn't want to wear that height, the manager doesn't have to let that dancer work there unless the dancer will follow the requirements.
    Take the road less traveled- just make sure you have a map.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    People have said various things about all of this, but I don't know employment law very well and I haven't seen any real references to it. If someone else knows more about it, their help would be welcomed.

    Well, in any case, I finally have a very simple recommendation: There ARE gothic-style boots with three inch platforms and minimal rise.

    Like these pairs, which I'm thinking about myself, 'cause I think they're hella hot. Kinda bondagey, punk-rawk: a look which sells well at my club. Your mileage may vary.

    http://www.snaz75.com/d-ranger-318.html
    http://www.snaz75.com/d-neptune-100.html
    http://www.snaz75.com/d-trashville-510.html
    http://www.snaz75.com/d-dare-209.html

    and this, which looks more like a stripper boot but also has a much higher platform (I'd be scared to wear it): http://www.snaz75.com/chopper-100.html

    Look at http://www.snaz75.com/mens-boots.html for a listing of more -- many of the shoes here don't look all that 'manly' and are pretty much unisex styles, as far as I can tell, especially as they go down to a men's size 4 (!) which is a women's size 6. I guess the site's just listed them under "men's" because that's the category they have instead of "unisex".

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    ^ It all comes down to what the club will allow. My old club would not allow those boots. It was a gown club and you had to wear shoes (any height 3" or more) and boots had to go with the gown.

    If it's an anything goes club, then those boots may work, but they wouldn't work at a gown-type club.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    two suggestions:
    party dance, which means you can wear whatever you want including bare feet, which facilitates some of the acrobatic stuff on couches, or
    find a club that lets you wear that type of shoe.
    I know crazy horse 2 in las vegas let this really hot, black girl who was probably 6 ft wear sneakers. She just hid them with leg warmers so you didn't even notice.

  22. #47
    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    In the first post, she mentioned working in a "hole-in-the-wall" club. I've never heard of a hole-in-the-wall gown club.

    (For some reason now I have this very silly poem running in my head -- I've never seen a purple cow; I never hope to see one; but I can tell you anyhow, I'd rather see than be one...)

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    ^^my mom used to say that all the time!

    Boy this was an old thread. Now that I'm in Portland I see girls wear very small heels and even go barefoot on stage.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Yep. The strip club mentality here is kind of a neighborhood-bar, everyday-girl thing. A couple of times I've gotten sick to death of dancing in good shoes for a cheap, lousy crowd and put on my Chucks. Both times the crowd noticed, and gave me better tips out of general sheepishness, or out of liking my audacity.

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    Default Re: can my club force me to wear 3" heels legally?

    Quote Originally Posted by thechaosfairy
    In the first post, she mentioned working in a "hole-in-the-wall" club. I've never heard of a hole-in-the-wall gown club.

    (For some reason now I have this very silly poem running in my head -- I've never seen a purple cow; I never hope to see one; but I can tell you anyhow, I'd rather see than be one...)
    It may not be a gown club...but the "hole-in-the-wall" clubs I've been to (here, anyways) still had req's that had to be followed. The first was shoe height. Not saying it is the same across the board...but just because they are a HITW club doesn't mean that they don't have req's...

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