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Thread: Terri Schiavo

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Terri Schiavo

    (Note: This thread isn't meant to be a political thing, but rather a "What would you do?" type of thing.)

    I've been following this case for a while now, and wanted to see what others thought of it, and wondered if we'd all do the same as her Husband if we were in his shoes.

    My Husband and I have discussed this in the past, and we've both expressed our feelings about not wanting to be kept alive artificially (respirators, feeding tubes, etc) We also plan on setting our wishes on paper in the near future, should something happen to either of us. I know that it would be a very difficult decision, but I know that he and I are capable of making that final decision.

    Terri does not have a Living Will. Her Husband has said that Terri would not want to live like this, though. Of course, she cannot voice her feelings in any way, so he has been speaking of what she'd want. He's also been fighting her parents, and if her parents hadn't appealed the court's decision time and time again, Terri would already be at peace.

    I guess the thing that troubles me so about Terri's case is that the method of which they're going to end her life will most likely be very unpleasant for her. They will be removing her feeding tube tomorrow at 2pm. Although she's clinically "brain-dead", couldn't it still be a highly unpleasant thing? Won't it take days for her to slip away (for her to starve to death, I mean)? On her family's website they have videos of Terri, responding to music, her Mother, a balloon, and more. But again, the only thing that's been keeping her alive since her heart stopped in 1990 is the feeding tube. Even if she is what they call "brain-dead", won't she suffer horribly before she finally has peace?

    I don't know, I just hope that the end will come quickly for her. It saddens me to think of her in pain, being starved.

    So, what would you all do? Would you be able to do the same as Terri's husband? What if it was your child, and not your spouse? Would you be able to let go? Also, what would you want for yourself? Would you want to be kept alive by a machine?

    I'll admit that while I'd be able to let my Husband go, although it would be hard, I don't think I could make the decision if it were one of my children.

    Here is the website I referenced. You can view the videos I mentioned there:

    Here's the latest article:

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I think that what they are doing is terribly inhumane and wrong. A feeding tube is not, in my honest opinion, artificial life support. I've always attributed artificial life support to be a heart/lung machine. Something that is needed to keep the body going through its "daily" machinations. STARVING someone to death does not mean that they cannot function...if the feeding tube is the only thing keeping them alive (which, in this case it is) then they are not "clinically" dead. If someone responds to outside stimuli, then there is something else going on. There is something working inside of that person.

    Dammit. This case pisses me off so much. I can understand the parents not wanting to lose their child. However, everything that her husband has done seems to be in selfishness and greed. Maybe that is just my take on it...but seems that the reason he wants his wife to die is so that he can get re-married and move on. Since they married in a catholic church...unless she dies, he is not "free" to remarry. Bastard. So much for the "in sickness and in health" vow he took.

    Obviously, the above is simply my take on the situation.

    If the people who want to remove her feeding tube want her to die peacefully and quickly (and not a slow, horrible death from starvation that could take 2 weeks to do) then they should just inject her with an overdose of morphine. God dammit...convicts get to die an easier death.

    That judge, IMHO, is a moron...a disgrace to the bench and should be thrown off the bench and lose his ability to practice law.

    Not that I'm particularly affected in any way by this case.

    I hope that her family is able to find peace within themselves. It's going to be very hard to watch her die that slowly...painfully.

    What a horrible horrible situation.

    Me? I don't know what I would have done. Besides what the parents have already done. It would be very hard for me to let my child go...especially if I truly believed that the medical profession was wrong. Like Terri's parents. Would I be able to let Scorpio go any easier? Probably not. It's just a horrible situation and one that I would never want to imagine or experience for myself.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Venus is right about the husband. The reason she is in a comma is because her husband called her fat all the time so she took diet pills and a potasium deficiency casused a stroke and the air to her brain was cut off. He has nothing other than she told me I wouldnt want to live this way. Its his word. I live here were this case has been going on for years so being local I hear alot about it. Its also said he just wants the insurance money. I say if her parents want to take care of her let her live.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I've always just been puzzled about how they can call her "brain-dead", "brain-damaged", or whatever when there is evidence to say otherwise. In my opinion, she's functioning just fine on her own. She's breathing and responding to stimuli. The only thing is that she cannot feed herself. Why not just let her live the way she has been since 1990?

    Like I said, I'm very disturbed by the method they're planning to use. She will suffer, and I don't know how anyone could allow that to happen. What if she starts acting like she needs to be fed really badly? Will they just ignore her? I can't even begin to imagine.

    As for her Husband. I hope this all comes right back to him. I'm well aware that he wants to remarry, and that he's not doing this out of the kindness of his "heart" <cough>, and to end his wife's "suffering". I have seen no evidence that Terri is suffering at all. In fact, her face lights up when she hears her mother's voice, or sees her face.

    I do agree with you Michele. Terri's parents would take care of her in a heartbeat. I think they need to let them do it. The husband should give up rights to her.

    I guess I'm secretly hoping that the order will be cancelled indefinitely. I just don't think it's going to happen, sadly. I think that all efforts to stop this have been exhausted.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    It's hard to walk in anothers shoes. I think that this woman was on life support at one time (looked like a trach scar on her neck). Why didn't her husband "turn off the machines" then? I know myself and my husband have talked about this subject and we know each others wishes. I also hope that if anything were to happen to either of us that the others family wouldn't try to step in.

    I also happen to know from experience that a family member can get gaurdianship of another family member regaurdless of if they are married. I did this with my mother and she was married.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    The state stepped in and saved the day!!

    Here's the link: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...d/11153518.htm

    Fla. House OKs bill to keep Schiavo alive

    SAMANTHA GROSS

    Associated Press

    TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - The state House passed a bill Thursday that could keep Terri Schiavo alive, less than 24 hours before the severely brain-damaged woman's feeding tube is scheduled to be removed.

    The Senate began debating a more limited version of the bill as lawmakers rushed to beat the scheduled removal of Schiavo's feeding tube.

    The legislative action was part of a last-minute flurry of attempts to save Schiavo's life. Congress was also considering legislation to move the case to the federal courts, Schiavo's parents appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and Florida Circuit Court Judge George Greer scheduled a hearing Thursday to consider a request from the state to halt the removal of the tube.

    The House bill would block the withholding of food and water from patients in a persistent vegetative state who didn't leave specific instructions refusing the artificial measure. It passed 78-37.

    "This provides a safety net where the government stands up for the vulnerable who don't otherwise have a voice," said Republican Rep. Kevin Ambler.

    Gov. Jeb Bush has strongly urged the Legislature to pass a bill that would save Schiavo, as it did in 2003. That law allowed Bush to order doctors to restore Schiavo's feeding tube six days after it had been removed. The law was later declared unconstitutional by the Florida Supreme Court.

    "We have a responsibility to act, to deal with this issue," Bush said. "It breaks my heart we're in a situation where it's possible this woman could starve to death."

    The Senate bill could also prevent Schiavo's death, but would only apply to cases where families disagreed on the patient's wishes.

    Schiavo, 41, has been at the center of a long and bitter court battle between her parents and her husband, who wants to remove her feeding tube so she can die.

    Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped temporarily, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents disagree that was her wish and say she could improve with proper treatment.

    Greer has granted Michael Schiavo permission to remove the feeding tube, a ruling a state appeals court upheld Wednesday. Without the feeding tube, Terri Schiavo would likely die in one to two weeks.

    Late Wednesday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation that would delay removal of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube by moving such a case to federal court. Federal judges have twice turned down efforts by the parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, to move the case out of Florida courts, citing a lack of jurisdiction.

    But Senate Democrats blocked the bill Thursday, and even Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., acknowledged that his own Republicans were not likely to agree to ultimately send the House legislation to President Bush for his signature.

    Frist said he would later try to pass a separate Senate bill and get it to the House before they leave for its Easter recess Friday.

    "If we don't act or if somebody does not act, a living person who has a level of consciousness, who is self-breathing will be starved to death here in the next two weeks," Frist said.

    At the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan said the case raises "a lot of complex issues" and declined to comment on specific legislation. But he said Bush "stands on the side of defending life."

    Also, Schiavo's parents filed an emergency motion at the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the removal of her feeding tube so lower courts can consider whether their daughter's religious freedom and due process rights have been violated.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I had judge george greer in a contempt case( non payment of child support) and I must say I was really impressed with him and he was an excellent familly law attorney and judge. He has had death threats because of the shaivo case. I wont say I agree with him on this but what he said to my ex at the contempt case was priceless.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    If I was like this I would want to not live its too much of a burden on others and there is no quality of life this way in my opinion .Just reacting to someting is not the way I would like to exist .

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    So you would rather be starved to death?

    My anger in this case is more with the STARVING of her til she dies. Not any other humane means. I am coming to learn that "quality of life" means different things to different people.

    Responding and Reacting are very different: Responding...someone walks in the room and says hi and you smile because you are happy to see them. Reacting...a doctor hits your knee in the right place and your leg jerks up.

    People who "react" can be brain dead...but people who "respond" cannot be. There is a very big difference.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    HELL FUCKIN YEAH!

    Thanks for sharing the news, Venus.. I've been running around the house all day and haven't had a chance to stop til now.

    Next step: Take away the Husband's rights to her.

    I just couldn't bear to think of her dying in such a horrible way.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I wouldn't want to live like that, if you can even call it living, and personally I support the husband. He says the money he got from the insurance settlement has pretty much been eaten up by the legal fight, and based on how long this has dragged on I believe it. But who knows. I feel very, very badly for the parents as they are obviously suffering a lot.

    Terri's mind is totally gone. But just enough of her brain matter retained rudimentary function to really challenge what most people expect to see when they hear 'vegetative state', and to make it emotionally wrenching for everyone else. The vast majority of medical experts have all stated this, but her parents can't accept it, and who knows what I would be able to believe if I were in their situation. I don't think she'll suffer from the removal of the feeding tube, but I do agree that they should just give her an OD or something instead of drawing it out. Her husband has been fighting for years and years and he's already living with this woman, I don't think it's all about greed. Again, I could be wrong on that, I don't know the guy from Adam. But if that were me, I would want whatever plug to be pulled. I really need to make a living will.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    If nothing has happened in 15 years, its not going to happen. So what if he wants to re-marry, he hasn't had a wife for 15 years. Its not our business what their marriage was like before. Damn ppl are a nosy bunch. I think she should be given an overdose of something that will put her out quickly and painlessly. The starvation option is horrible.

    Jeb Bush could give a shit about Shiavo or her family. As usual, he is just trying to appeal to conservatives. Disguisting self-interest all around.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    DNR, thats what I say.
    As far as the Shiavo case goes my feelings are end her suffering already, mercy killings are something I am totally in favor of. If it were Dea or one of my kids layin in that hospital bed I can say with no hard feelings that I would kill them, and I would expect/demand them to do the same for me.
    Jeb Bush be damned, pull the feeding tube, inject an overdose of something and go on your way.
    I could care less about the husband or the parents, what they are doing to Terri is inhumane!

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Terri Schiavo's feeding tube has been removed today per judges order. :*(

    May she rest in peace and may her family find peace in the time of unspeakable pain.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I'm at a loss here, really.

    My love and sympathy goes out to her parents. I hope that she will fade peacefully and experience no further pain. I really wish that they would give her something instead of using starvation. I can't even imagine that.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    i just wanted to add that i agree the starvation thing is completely awful. and just because they pulled the tube out today doesn't mean this is actually over. didn't they pull the tube out before for like a week, and then put it back in again? creepy. someone needs to send in Kevorkian or something. i dont understand how euthanasia is illegal but sitting and waiting for someone to starve to death is perfectly okay. makes no sense to me at all.
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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I agree, Chris. And I also agree with whoever said that criminals are executed in a more humane manner. When a criminal is executed by letal injection, they're given a sedative first, which puts them to sleep. Then a second dose of something (or third, I can't remember how many there are) stops their heart. They truly die in peace. Why can't they at least give Terri that? The horrible pain that this woman will go through before she finally fades away, is something that I couldn't even begin to imagine.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Honestly since I did my RN internship (years ago) in a facility that had what I would say a high rate of "keeping people alive via machines". It took me two weeks to realize that these people that kept their loveones on alive this way were doing it for their personal reasons not in consideration for their loved one's. That's why no matter what your health status is right now if you do not want to be kept alive or you do get a DNR and a living will tell your loved ones what you want. I know it's morbid but it has to be done.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade
    DNR, thats what I say.
    As far as the Shiavo case goes my feelings are end her suffering already, mercy killings are something I am totally in favor of. If it were Dea or one of my kids layin in that hospital bed I can say with no hard feelings that I would kill them, and I would expect/demand them to do the same for me.
    Jeb Bush be damned, pull the feeding tube, inject an overdose of something and go on your way.
    I could care less about the husband or the parents, what they are doing to Terri is inhumane!
    ^What he said.

    I don't want to be kept alive for 15 years because people are fighting in court. But please don't just let me starve to death. Shoot me up with something good and fast.



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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    If it were my child,I would not let her starve to death.
    I would rather sit in jail for the rest of my life then to let my child die like that.
    I would be there for my child,god help anyone who tried to stop me,they would suffer the wrath of my resolve.
    Anyone standing between the family and her are no longer "Innocents" IMO.

    Inmates and rabid dogs get a better exit visa!

    This is fucked up.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Terri has a ton of supporters keeping vigil outside of the Hospice center where she lives. I was watching the news this morning, and they interviewed one supporter, saying that they would risk arrest, and their own lives to go in and give Terri water to keep her alive. I hope that at least one of those supporters are successful. Terri's feeding tube has been removed two or three times before, and obviously the orders were overturned. I hope that they can do it again. Terri's inheritence is nearly $2 million. That is more than enough to care for her. Her "husband" (what a fucking joke, he's been "engaged" to another woman since 1997) should just divorce Terri, turn the money over to her parents and let them handle her care. For anyone who believes that Terri is not functioning, again, I urge you to view the video clips on the site . This woman is very much alive and responsive. What they are doing is murder. A starvation death is NOT natural causes, and that is the only way that Terri should pass on. It's funny too, because Michael RARELY visits her. But his attorney stated that he was at the hospital by Terri's side shortly after the tube was removed. What a guy.

    I had a very lengthy discussion with my mother on the phone last night. I wanted to be sure that she had her wishes in writing. As many know, she's been bedridden for the past 20 years (in May). She's paralyzed from the waist down, and relies on others to care for her. Granted, she can feed herself, but someone must prepare meals for her (obviously) and put them on her tray in front of her. I just wanted to be sure that mother has her wishes legally recorded. Thankfully, she does. She does have a DNR, in the event that something horrible happens where she'll have to be kept alive by machines. But, in the event of a case similar to Terri's, where she's not "dead" yet, my mother wishes to be kept alive.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what develops in Terri's case. I'm hoping that they reinsert the tube and let her continue her life as it is. It's still valuable to her, and to those around her.

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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    Essentially this is a family crisis caused by unclear intentions. It has gone to court, politics, and publicity because the people involved each think they know what Terry wants. But the issue that they may not really know has been ignored by the press as far as I know. So we are left in confusion because it has gone completely beyond its family crisis origins.

    In that light I find it really difficult to make judgements about her life. But we should learn from it.

    I think the 'starve' thing is a legal manuever required so that no one can say a particular person 'euthanized' her. In some other cases they may call it 'extubation' (removal of life support tubes). They don't intend this to be suffering, but of course it is.

    This case points out why we all should have a living will and someone we really trust with our life to be its executor. You can never tell when a Mack truck with bad brakes and a red light cannot stop at your green light, or whatever.

    It takes a very progressive society to come to terms with that degree of individual rights. We aren't really there yet.
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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    This whole thing makes me want to cry for many of the reasons already stated. We went thru this in a way last year with my uncle, not as severe but it did divide the family at the time because of the machinations of my grandma who has the beginning stages of dementia. My uncle was essentially braindead and his organs were failing one by one from years of alcohol and drug abuse, yet she wouldnt agree to take him off of life support even though the rest of the family agreed it was the right thing to do. Finally we took steps legally to remove her as next of kin and removed him from life support, he lasted 3 minutes because there was no life in him to support anymore, unlike Terri.

    I have in place a formal DNR including a chain of next of kin in case my mother is unable to make the decisions. The local rescue squads also have a copy of my DNR. Mine allows life support only if it aids in harvesting my organs for donation and then it is to be removed and my body turned over to the Univ of Vas medical school. The med school already has specific instructions as to what studies I want done on my body. I am taking no chances that my wishes will not be honored.

    I hope that someone does something for Terri, if not this is murder and a travesty of justice.


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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    The brain scan they have shown on TV news shows severe atrophy. From the videos they have also shown of her being quite responsive, considering, I have to conclude that either:
    (1) the brain scan is not hers
    (2) brain scans are not a reilable indicator of brain functioning.

    I don't know if there is any way of determining her current wishes but she doesn't seem to be awaiting death. Of course that's only what I interpret from what has been presented to us. I sure hope someone knowledgable has gone into intricate detail on this case. It sure isn't Tom DeLay.
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    Default Re: Terri Schiavo

    I would have to go with #2.

    The brain is such a complex organ and so much so that parts of the brain can atrophy and the unatrophied parts will pick up the slack. She seems so "not vegetable". I've always considered veg state where one does not respond to outside stimuli willingly...where they are hooked up to a heart and lung machine and if THAT machine was turned off...they would die within minutes. I never considered someone who is brain damaged and responding actively to their environment...not on life support (outside of the feeding tube) to be a vegetable. I think that if you have to starve someone in order for them to die...then it's murder. If you have to keep someone's body working by sheer mechanics...then maybe it's time to let go.

    Quality of life is different for different people. A lot of people think that if you are blind, then you cannot truly appreciate what life has to offer. People think that Autistic kids cannot appreciate life...or even kids with severe cerebal palsy. It seems to me that the people who truly think that they would be better off dead aren't the ones smiling and responding to their environment. It seems to me that those people are the ones who are consistently in a depressed and truly "vegetative" state.

    Just because someone has an MD, doesn't make him all knowing and an expert.

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