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    Default IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    From the New York Times:
    Several Imax theaters, including some in science museums, are refusing to show movies that mention the subject - or the Big Bang or the geology of the earth - fearing protests from people who object to films that contradict biblical descriptions of the origin of Earth and its creatures.

    Now this (NYT site, reg. req'd) is the sort of thing that really frightens me. We can disagree about fiscal and military policy; these things are always open to debate, and only history will show who's right and who's wrong. But refusing to show documentaries because they mention evolution is de facto censorship (and big fat massive fucking denial of scientific fact).

    And they're pandering to an audience of willfully fundamental people. Do we really want to become a country that caters to this particular religious group? I know a lot of Christians who don't think it's blasphemous to beleive the Earth is more than 6000 years old.

    I hate to say it, but stories like this one disturb me as much if not more than those about human rights abuses . . .

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Yes, the decline of science certainly plays a role in the decline of the country.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Evolution is a theory which has scientific fact...therefore a perfect place in the school as well as in the IMAX (or other) theatre. If the protesters want to march, WTF cares? perhaps, to be totally PC the movie could say "Scientific theories indicate" before discussing evolution (scientific theories indicate that humans evolved from chimps, for example) since we don't have eyewitness, unrefutable proof of that fact.

    For me, I don't need that level of proof - and I am a very spiritual/faith based person, I feel that God was smart, got things started in the universe and left it grow, coming back once in a while to "prune and fertilize" as needed. Work smarter, not harder. Doesn't exclude creationism or evolution, leaves room for both and makes a HELL of a lot more sense than either one alone.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    For some balance there's another site out there called "trueorigins" that is kinda a response to talkorigins. Most of what they have to say is hogwash (IMO), but at least folk can point and giggle. You'll have to google it though, since i don't have a link handy.

    (Talkorigins also has myriad links to creationist sites as well)


    For some real howlers, check out <-- this guy needs to go into stand-up. he's a hoot.



    EDIT: Oooooh, "Dr" Dino finally took the loch ness monster pics down, i'm shocked!

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Doesn't exclude creationism or evolution, leaves room for both and makes a HELL of a lot more sense than either one alone.
    Frankly, for those believing in a Power Greater Than Ourselves (self included), it is our responsibility as creatures of that Power to learn and explain the hows and whys of the universe; science is the means by which we do this.

    Only the truly dogmatic--from either camp--believe in the mutual exclusivity of the ostensibly competing theories.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    madmaxine
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    My favorite home-spun arguement for evolution came from someone's momma, who sat her kids down and explained that there was no way God could make the whole earth and universe in one calendar week, the authors of the Bible just wrote it like that so we could understand it.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Wonder what Bush believes about evolution etc?

    We already know he is NOT the educational president. (Or apparently educated either.)
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    I think he believes whatever he read here.

    Sigh. I'm just sad about the apparent purchasing power of the Religious Right. I guess that's who goes to IMAX films . . . them and really stoned kids.

    There are plenty of people, scientists included, who believe in God or another higher power who don't think that religion and science are mutually exclusive. But there are some really hardcore people, like these guys, who tell people if you don't believe that everything happened exactly like it says in the Bible, you are blaspheming.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward
    Sigh. I'm just sad about the apparent purchasing power of the Religious Right. I guess that's who goes to IMAX films . . . them and really stoned kids.
    That is a good point - because most people would rather know what is going on in the Michael Jackson case than what is going on in the universe.

    So not only is science fighting off the willfully ignorant mythasist - they are fighting off apathy.

    The bad thing is - it is driving science underground like the IMAX case examples.

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    madmaxine
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Sigh....God Bless their poor simple hearts. I'm sure they think Jesus was Caucasian instead of Semitic, and dinosaurs were a.......well, hmm, what DO they say about dinosaurs? Heh.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    Sigh....God Bless their poor simple hearts. I'm sure they think Jesus was Caucasian instead of Semitic, and dinosaurs were a.......well, hmm, what DO they say about dinosaurs? Heh.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    LOL the IMAX near me is showing Robots right now. I know I saw Captain America on IMAX there too. I guess I go to a liberal Universal Studio owned IMAX.

    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    Sigh....God Bless their poor simple hearts. I'm sure they think Jesus was Caucasian instead of Semitic, and dinosaurs were a.......well, hmm, what DO they say about dinosaurs? Heh.
    They were Noah's guard dogs, there to prevent the riff raff from boarding the ark. They bravely sacrificed themselves, remaining outside the safe boat, eating those that clamoured desperately at the sides until the waters overtook even them, and they drowned, content in the knowledge that they had performed the will of god and with bellies full of the unbelievers. They now roam freely in heaven, feeling only mild discontent that all the edible heretics are hellbound. Geez, max. Didn't you go to church?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    A lot of fundamentalist christians say that Leviathan and Behemoth (spoken of in the Old Testament) were Dinosaurs, but neither really fit the bill. First off humans didn't interact with either, only god did (and most creationists argue that humans and dinosaurs lived side by side, at least in the Garden of Eden). Secondly, at least for Behemoth, the description fits a Hippo a lot more than it does any Dinosaurs.

  15. #15
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Knowledge will have setbacks, but will win out. The Pope and Martin Luther lambasted Copernicus. Galileo was under house arrest. Even within church teachings, the writings of the cleric Thomas Aquinas that advocated a mix of rationalism and religiousness were suppressed.

    So there were all those people suppressed from the true knowledge (at least, as of that time) of how the world worked - and wow, yet here we are, not believing that this planet is the center of the universe. Evolution is just another axe for the "true believers" to grind on the way to the world's eventual acquisition of greater knowledge and understanding of the physical universe.

    The processes that forms the basis for fossilization and evolution are the same processes that fuel the sun and let the microwave heat your leftovers. People will happily chatter about how the principles of carbon dating are bullshit even as they start up their processors that carry huge amounts of information through microvolts on circuits so small they can't be seen.

    Knowledge and information will march onward. It will always be insufficient in comparison to the breadth of reality, but it will keep on accumulating. We'll all die ignorant. It's just a question of degree.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    We have a Creationist agenda owned Dinosaur Park here in Texas:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/dvsp.html

    My group in undergrad, the Skeptical Society, took a trip out there but I didn't make it. Man prints next to dinosaur prints.

    I saw an amazing IMAX in Arizona about the Grand Canyon as a kid right before we went out there. It was incredible, but would have just pissed me off if god was mentioned, even at 12 when I saw it. If you want to believe in God, I think that seeing something like the Grand Canyon itself is a great reason to believe in divine majesty and all of that faith shit.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    If you want to believe in God, I think that seeing something like the Grand Canyon itself is a great reason to believe in divine majesty and all of that faith shit.
    Maybe it's just a good reason to believe in erosion.
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    but would have just pissed me off if god was mentioned,

    Why? If the producer of a work were to freely express personal opinion that a higher power were involved...is that really a reason to get pissed?

    I think we're too sensitive over the faith vs agnostic issues - separation of church and state (which is a statement never written by the founding fathers) and all that. People believe differently from each other, way different from me...and they have a right to express that as much as I do. As much as a couple in love have a right to express (reasonable, there may be kids here) affection in public...someone who believes in God has a right to refer to that person.

    The true test (with government money) is whether the gov't is trying to impose or support a national religion, or impinge on religious freedoms. Technically, that's what's in our founding documents.

    To both sides I say: LIGHTEN UP!

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    separation of church and state (which is a statement never written by the founding fathers)
    Incorrect, to a point. It's not in the Constitution, but it's in Myriad writings by several founders. I'll look up some quotes, but those are pretty useless as they can be taken out of context (so if i bother finding them, i'd still advise you to read the source work the quote is from rather than just take my word for it).

    The whole concept is pretty much taken care of in the first ammendment anyway.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    From http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

    First Amenment:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Where in there does it say anything about an IMAX movie Or any historically appropriate production) referring to God? Where does it (even) preclude the 10 Commandments from our public buildings (religious symbolism is all over the Supreme Court rooms and the Capitol)?

    Not saying we should necessarily support any faith-based initiatives or allow in-school indoctrination to Christianity (or any religion) - just saying that to DISCUSS religious topics, or REFER TO religious symbols is not inherently prevented by any "founding father" actions

    Further, IMHO, to not learn about, understand and respect religion - whatever your personal faith may be - is to disrespect your neighbors who share that faith and to deny yourself a deeper understanding of how people work and why. That's just dumb.

    http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
    this is another good link - discusses in very good detail the secular intentions of our founders, but seems to find no evidence (that I saw in scanning) for prohibiting the discussion of religion or religious concepts in public life or government property. Some would argue that to do so can constitute limitations on free expression.

    And of course
    http://atheism.about.com/sitesearch....de=2928&type=1

    About.com is always good for a few links!

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    From

    First Amenment:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
    I would say that is a pretty clear phrase about seperation of church and state.

    What we need to do is understand better what "State established religion" is.

    For example, the government on a faith based initiative gives money to a soup kitchen. That soup kitchen will not let anyone eat unless they have gone to a service.

    The state is financially aiding in the establishment of a religious entity that enforces church doctrine on a group of people.

    Now, if the state provides money to a soup kitchen that does NOT enforce church doctrines and religious requirements on the people there - is the government establishing a religion? I would say not.

    In general, if the government is giving aid to an organization that is forcing it's belief system upon people - then that is government establishment of religion.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Nothing in there about not sponsoring good things that either do, or talking about the concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    What we need to do is understand better what "State established religion" is.
    Yes we do/....internationally and historically:

    * Virginia used to require that people NOT ONLY work Sundays, but attend church.*
    * King Henry VIII declared all of England Catholic and burned “heretics” (Protestants and a few of his wives) at the stake. Some were given the chance to convert after being tortured on the rack.
    * In 1660 Paul Bunyon, author of Pilgrim’s Progress, was jailed for preaching*without a license and disagreeing with Parliament over their religious laws.
    * In Afghanistan during the reign of the Taliban, women were executed in soccer fields in front of crowds for wearing their burquas crooked in the name of Islamo- fascism.

    Thomas Jefferson, a man the athiests love to*trot around because of his skeptisim had this to say on the subject;*
    *
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury to my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Dumas Malon, Jefferson The President: First Term 1801-1805. Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1970, p. 191)


    For example, the government on a faith based initiative gives money to a soup kitchen. That soup kitchen will not let anyone eat unless they have gone to a service.
    First of all, I've never volunteered at a kitchen with these rules...but if a kitchen had them:
    perhaps they would not be eligible for federal grants, but that would be a decision, not a constitutional matter
    Most religious sponsored social groups (catholic social services comes to mind) serves everyone with NO preaching...everyone knows *by their name* who they are and can inquire further if desired.

    I'd personally support such a grant, IF that was the only access the community had to food for the poor. The service to our underprivileged is more important than standing on principle. Remember, those who stand on this principle (and prevent the kitchen from feeding the helpless) have full stomachs!

    In general, if the government is giving aid to an organization that is forcing it's belief system upon people - then that is government establishment of religion.
    FORCING is the key word. If they support a muslim soup kitchen that feeds anyone, even while muslim evangelists (are there any?)are working to convert people....that's NOT supporting a state religion.

    Don't throw out the hungry with the holy water. Not everything faith based is bad.

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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    Sigh....God Bless their poor simple hearts. I'm sure they think Jesus was Caucasian instead of Semitic, and dinosaurs were a.......well, hmm, what DO they say about dinosaurs? Heh.
    "They are a trick played on us humans by God to test our faith." All that stuff is like cosmology, telescopes, plate techtonics, even the earth's magnetic field. Didn't you know that?
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    If I was the guy who owned Imax......


    I would show the films i wanted,in the theaters I wanted.

    If anyone didnt like it,go somewhere else.

    This is america baby!!!If you dont like the way he or she does business,go elsewhere.

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    Veteran Member Celeste25's Avatar
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    Default Re: IMAX not showing films that reference evolution

    Come and see it here... It's called Genesis; it looks really beautiful... that news makes me really angry; whatever happened to freedom of speech!?
    You know the saying? ... Celeste is the best!

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