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Thread: Shiavo circus in Florida

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Some more direct retorts on this issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    The doctors were court appointed doctors.
    Actually, you've been lied to.

    The facts of the case are: there were a total of three (3) doctors. Two (2) were paid for their testimony by the husband's lawyer. The third was also appointed by the husband's lawyer, but paid for by the courts.


    Her cerebral cortex is mush and is replaced with spinal fluid. Those things are not possible without the cerebral cortex. The family interprets random reflexes with actual response.
    I already covered this in my last post. I would urge you to see the videos I linked and make this determination for yourself. It's a case of whether or not you believe someone making a sour face and turning their head away from a swab.. or a big smile upon seeing their mother to change her pillow as 'random reflexes'..

    Another lie. She had been given 7 years of aggressive therapy.
    The nurses in care of Terri have a vastly different story. They have also been disallowed to give their testimony in the appeal citing neglect.

    What are your sources declaring she has had 7 years of 'aggressive therapy' ? The only mutually declared, real sources are the hospice care and hospice doctors, whom all have given the exact opposite testimony on various media sources.

    Although he is engaged, it was not an 'immediate' reaction. How long should one dwell on a 'dead' loved one before it is ok to move on?
    The point with the SO is that he had two children with her near-immediately after his wife's declaration of being in a 'vegitative state'. They have two children now.

    Feeding tubes can always be re-inserted.
    In this case, it cannot.

    Another fact that you have decided to dismiss is that a direct order to have the tube surgically REMOVED from her was processed by her husband. It's not a simple case of simply 'unplugging' her- the device itself would now require a surgical procedure to replace the unit.. THEN re-attach it to the flow of nutrients. This basically adds a half-day surgery if an order to return nourishment were processed, instead of a 2 minute job of reconnecting fluids.


    She is not capable of flying to France. Starvation without a cerebral cortex is not painfull.
    I'd agree with both of your assertions.. she's likely not capable to travel to France/Europe NOW as she's been 4.5 days dehydrated and likely wouldn't survive the trip. This wasn't the case last week.

    I'd also agree that without a cerebral cortex, there is no acknowledgement or what we consider a conscious experience of 'pain'- but reactions recorded from Terri's hospice room would suggest she runs the full gamut of pain, emotion, feeling and sensation.

    Not true, although he was given a $1M malpractice settlement, virtually all of that had been spent on treatment for her prior to 1998. The settlement was 300k in compensatory damages for him and 700k to be used for her treatment.
    It is foolish to try and make declarations one way or another concerning financial gain/motive behind this without full disclosure.

    As there is no disclosure here, it is foolish to make assertions either way. This IS just another example of the kinds of determinations that need to be made prior to FL granting full power of attorney to her husband.


    Because the family has a knack for coming up with 'doctors' who say she is treatable even though the rest of the medical community disagrees.
    Florida Child and Family Protective Services have a restraining order filed against them. I think this speaks volumes on the matter itself.

    When a state-level protective services organization is pitted against the state's judiciary branch, we have a serious problem in Florida! It's basically the same problem we are seeing at the Federal level RIGHT NOW with the Supreme Court's decision to throw away hundreds of years of precedent and defy the constitution.
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Spare me the tin hat crap that Mr Shiavo put her in that state. That crap only recently came out from the family as the family became desperate.
    I guess a buttload of his ex girlfriends who claim he was physically abusive are lying as well as at least 3 nurses who gave sworn testimony that terri was agitated and upset when he left her room when he closed the door. I guess she wanted a divorce because he was such a prince in the first place! I guess the nurse who swore he said "when is that bitch going to die??" and "what can speed up that bitches death" is also lying. little michael is the only one telling the truth here...... everyone else is lying. Right.
    What kind of husband would NOT want some rehab for his wife ?????? He wouldn't even allow them to open the blinds or put a wet cloth in her hand.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    [/color]


    My question is this : Why would you and the husband fight the family so vehemently, when all they want to do is care for her? What's in it for you? My very educated guess, as in I have hung out with sociopaths, abusers, and criminals for 34 years of my life, is this: that he is an abuser who caused this to happen to her, and he wants her dead in order to collect money. And my second guess is that you are a sociopath yourself.
    CORRECT . Why would he care ??? She's clearly never going to be the same, just might get a tad better. Theyll give him his divorce, he can be done with her forever. Why not let the parents have their daughter ??
    Her last wishes my ass. I doubt her last wishes included him f*cking another woman while she laid in a nursing home but he had no problems doing that !

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Ann Coulter is an idiot.

    I don't know much about the case, but a lot of the more shrill stuff about the husband that I see here doesn't really add up. I mean, the guy LIVED WITH HIS IN-LAWS for a couple of years after the accident, right? Doesn't sound to me like someone who was cutting and running, or was eager to do so beforehand. If he has had 2 kids in the last 10 years, does that really surprise anyone? Was he supposed to put his life on hold forever? And if he's in it for the money, why didn't he pocket the $1MM that that rich stem-cell research guy offered him to walk away?

    As for the heart attack, a good friend of my father's died of a heart attack after losing a lot of weight rapidly. So it can happen, though this is obviously an unusual case.

    I don't know anything about possible abuse, but it does seem to me as though it has been a VERY long time that his wife has been on a feeding tube (part of which he was living with his in-laws) before the allegations that he may have abused her or in some way caused her condition came to the surface.

    Bottom line to me--what motive does the guy have for actively desiring the death of his wife? Assuming that the money isn't an issue (which, based on his rejecting these monetary offers, it probably isn't), wouldn't he have to be an epically sick fuck to stick around TRYING to end her (not particularly enjoyable) life rather than just walking away from the situation?

    And unless you feel that he's actively TRYING to kill her, most of this other stuff is understandable. Maybe he doesn't want an additional CAT scan because ultimately there will be some doctor, somewhere, who is willing to suggest that Terri's tests don't look so bad and that she has a hope of recovery. It seems to me like the courts have had ample opportunity to examine all these issues (abuse, her recovery prospects, whether she would want to live this way, etc.), and if posters don't think they have given proper consideration to the issues involved, they should probably just go read the judgments regarding her case.

    Here's a question for the people who want to keep her alive. Regardless of what kind of person the husband is and what crimes or sins he may or may not be guilty of, a court has found that Terri Schialvo would probably not want to live the life that she has currently. Here's the question (and it's a genuine one, not rhetorical): Should her parents be allowed to keep her alive against a court's determination of her probable wishes? If parents can, can friends? Acquaintances? Anyone?
    "All this time you were pretending
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by SthnrnGrl77
    I guess a buttload of his ex girlfriends who claim he was physically abusive are lying as well as at least 3 nurses who gave sworn testimony that terri was agitated and upset when he left her room when he closed the door. I guess she wanted a divorce because he was such a prince in the first place! I guess the nurse who swore he said "when is that bitch going to die??" and "what can speed up that bitches death" is also lying. little michael is the only one telling the truth here...... everyone else is lying. Right.
    What kind of husband would NOT want some rehab for his wife ?????? He wouldn't even allow them to open the blinds or put a wet cloth in her hand.
    Yea, b/c he is a sick fuck. A sick, sick fuck. He enjoys watching her suffer.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by SthnrnGrl77
    I guess a buttload of his ex girlfriends who claim he was physically abusive are lying as well as at least 3 nurses who gave sworn testimony that terri was agitated and upset when he left her room when he closed the door. I guess she wanted a divorce because he was such a prince in the first place! I guess the nurse who swore he said "when is that bitch going to die??" and "what can speed up that bitches death" is also lying. little michael is the only one telling the truth here...... everyone else is lying.
    Don't let it get to you SthnrnGrl.. it's the wielding supremacy of anyone in that mindset- especially in a "sargeant" or sargeant-idolization mindset.

    This all reminds me TOO much of the Motley Crue thread in CC forum with Dennis Huf. "The bitch needs to fuck him for free.. just a perk" pimp daddy arrogant opinion.

    In this case- "The bitch just needs to die" and the guy going off and screwing someone else and popping out two kids immediately is absolutely no indication whatsoever. I mean, the dude just has to move on some time right?

    What I would prepare people for is the people on Sergeant D's camp, who believe it is humane for someone with no cerebral cortex to be starved to death (as they have no conscious feeling of pain/suffering) will then rally against any sort of investigative autopsy be performed- because, heck, it is inhumane to dissect her brain for actual cerebral cortex investigation when she is DEAD vs. starved to death when she is ALIVE.

    I hope the 'fans' of killing this woman will remain in their hardset path of "logic" and not be obstacles in any form of post-mortem autopsy for the expressed purpose of detailing malpractice or neglect. Any obstacles post-mortem would just simply be hypocritical.
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    Ann Coulter is an idiot.

    I don't know much about the case, but a lot of the more shrill stuff about the husband that I see here doesn't really add up. I mean, the guy LIVED WITH HIS IN-LAWS for a couple of years after the accident, right? Doesn't sound to me like someone who was cutting and running, or was eager to do so beforehand. If he has had 2 kids in the last 10 years, does that really surprise anyone? Was he supposed to put his life on hold forever? And if he's in it for the money, why didn't he pocket the $1MM that that rich stem-cell research guy offered him to walk away?

    As for the heart attack, a good friend of my father's died of a heart attack after losing a lot of weight rapidly. So it can happen, though this is obviously an unusual case.

    And yea, I read the article by Ann Coulter. It sounds more realistic than anything. Obviously we are dealing with a sociopathic mysoginist judge. Ann is a real moron, eh, Lurker???

    I don't know anything about possible abuse, but it does seem to me as though it has been a VERY long time that his wife has been on a feeding tube (part of which he was living with his in-laws) before the allegations that he may have abused her or in some way caused her condition came to the surface.

    Bottom line to me--what motive does the guy have for actively desiring the death of his wife? Assuming that the money isn't an issue (which, based on his rejecting these monetary offers, it probably isn't), wouldn't he have to be an epically sick fuck to stick around TRYING to end her (not particularly enjoyable) life rather than just walking away from the situation?

    And unless you feel that he's actively TRYING to kill her, most of this other stuff is understandable. Maybe he doesn't want an additional CAT scan because ultimately there will be some doctor, somewhere, who is willing to suggest that Terri's tests don't look so bad and that she has a hope of recovery. It seems to me like the courts have had ample opportunity to examine all these issues (abuse, her recovery prospects, whether she would want to live this way, etc.), and if posters don't think they have given proper consideration to the issues involved, they should probably just go read the judgments regarding her case.

    Here's a question for the people who want to keep her alive. Regardless of what kind of person the husband is and what crimes or sins he may or may not be guilty of, a court has found that Terri Schialvo would probably not want to live the life that she has currently. Here's the question (and it's a genuine one, not rhetorical): Should her parents be allowed to keep her alive against a court's determination of her probable wishes? If parents can, can friends? Acquaintances? Anyone?
    The reason why he didn't accept the money is because his lawyers told him he could be sued for millions of dollars for negligence if that happened. It was in his own best interest not to accept the money. Sorry, but there is too much evidence stacked up against this guy for me to believe he is anything but a sick fuck. Restraining orders against doctors and State Protective Services, the fact that he would not allow her rehabilitation, the testimony of what I see are very reliable nurses and ex-girlfriends, etc. lead me to believe he is guilty of wanting her dead. I just can't believe courts blindly, its not that black and white. I wish it were that just, but it's just not. Power, money, and who you know will get you whatever you want. I know how crooked the system is b/c I've lived it.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Jesusfuckingchrist, did you look at the link I posted?

    http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/in....html#timeline

    February 1990
    Terri suffers cardiac arrest and a severe loss of oxygen to her brain

    May 1990
    Terri leaves hospital and is brought to a rehabiliation center for aggressive therapy

    July 1990Terri is brought to the home where her husband and parents live; after a few weeks, she is brought back to the rehabilitation center

    November 1990
    Terri is taken to California for experimental therapies

    January 1991
    Terri is returned to Florida and placed at a rehabilitation center in Brandon

    July 1991
    Terri is transfered to a skilled nursing facility where she receives aggressive physical therapy and speech therapy

    May 1992
    Michael and the Schindlers stop living togetherJanuary 1993…Michael recovers $1 million settlement for medical malpractice claim involving Terri's care; jury had ruled in Michael's favor on allegations Terri's doctors failed to diagnose her bulimia, which led to her heart failure; case settled while on appeal

    March 1994
    Terri is transferred to a Largo nursing home

    May 1998
    Michael files petition for court to determine whether Terri's feeding tube should be removed; Michael takes position that Terri would chose to remove the tube; Terri's parents take position that Terri would chose not to remove the tube

    Re: The Videos of Terri "smiling" etc.

    There are over four hours of video that the family took over the years. The amount of time where she actually appears to be 'responding' to outside stimuli amounts to a few seconds.

    The only ones throwing away years of legal precedent and the constitution are Jeb Bush, GW Bush and Congress. FL law (and most state law, for that matter) states clearly that in the event that there is no living will to determine power of attorney that this responsibility falls to the surviving spouse, not the parents. Congress and the POTUS violated the 10th and 14th Amendments when they created the legislation that brought this into Federal Courts.

    I've heard of the nurses and basically it doesn't mean shit. Plenty of people are talking out of their asses.

    The SPS is intervening on behalf of Jeb Bush and his Pro-Life efforts. SPS was not involved until the last couple days when things got all political. Therefore it means shit.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Sorry, but there is too much evidence stacked up against this guy for me to believe he is anything but a sick fuck.
    Show me evidence that comes from an unbiased source. Oh wait, it doesn't exist!

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    What I do not understand is why the guy wouldn't just divorce Terri and marry someone else. I mean, she's being taken care of by her family and if he wants to just get on with his life, then he should just divorce her and move on.

    Maybe it's me...but don't the marriage vows say, "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part?"

    Seems to me that he was "happy" until she got ill...and then he wanted to bail.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by polecat
    What I would prepare people for is the people on Sergeant D's camp, who believe it is humane for someone with no cerebral cortex to be starved to death (as they have no conscious feeling of pain/suffering) will then rally against any sort of investigative autopsy be performed- because, heck, it is inhumane to dissect her brain for actual cerebral cortex investigation when she is DEAD vs. starved to death when she is ALIVE.
    Learn a bit about medicine. Removal of feeding tubes is a common end of life procedure for patients that are never going to recover.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    What I do not understand is why the guy wouldn't just divorce Terri and marry someone else. I mean, she's being taken care of by her family and if he wants to just get on with his life, then he should just divorce her and move on.
    I understand that POV. However, he is placed in a dilema. He needed to move on but he disagreed with the way the family wants to deal with the situation. According to him (and several other witnesses) she would not want to be kept alive in this way. If he divorces her the parents will keep her alive indefinitely and this is not what she would have wanted.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Jesusfuckingchrist, did you look at the link I posted?



    February 1990
    Terri suffers cardiac arrest and a severe loss of oxygen to her brain

    May 1990
    Terri leaves hospital and is brought to a rehabiliation center for aggressive therapy

    July 1990Terri is brought to the home where her husband and parents live; after a few weeks, she is brought back to the rehabilitation center

    November 1990
    Terri is taken to California for experimental therapies

    January 1991
    Terri is returned to Florida and placed at a rehabilitation center in Brandon

    July 1991
    Terri is transfered to a skilled nursing facility where she receives aggressive physical therapy and speech therapy

    May 1992
    Michael and the Schindlers stop living togetherJanuary 1993…Michael recovers $1 million settlement for medical malpractice claim involving Terri's care; jury had ruled in Michael's favor on allegations Terri's doctors failed to diagnose her bulimia, which led to her heart failure; case settled while on appeal

    March 1994
    Terri is transferred to a Largo nursing home

    May 1998
    Michael files petition for court to determine whether Terri's feeding tube should be removed; Michael takes position that Terri would chose to remove the tube; Terri's parents take position that Terri would chose not to remove the tube

    Re: The Videos of Terri "smiling" etc.

    There are over four hours of video that the family took over the years. The amount of time where she actually appears to be 'responding' to outside stimuli amounts to a few seconds.

    The only ones throwing away years of legal precedent and the constitution are Jeb Bush, GW Bush and Congress. FL law (and most state law, for that matter) states clearly that in the event that there is no living will to determine power of attorney that this responsibility falls to the surviving spouse, not the parents. Congress and the POTUS violated the 10th and 14th Amendments when they created the legislation that brought this into Federal Courts.

    I've heard of the nurses and basically it doesn't mean shit. Plenty of people are talking out of their asses.

    The SPS is intervening on behalf of Jeb Bush and his Pro-Life efforts. SPS was not involved until the last couple days when things got all political. Therefore it means shit.
    Well, I think this doesn't mean shit. I think the nurses' testimonies do mean something. I am not going to believe some timeline concocted by who-knows-who against a ton of reliable-looking and sounding people's testimonies and a video that I can see with my own eyes of someone responding to stimuli. The people I don't trust are the people you are agreeing with, which means either that you are a sociopath, or a really bad judge of character.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    If he has had 2 kids in the last 10 years, does that really surprise anyone? Was he supposed to put his life on hold forever?
    Answer- it DID surprise anyone.

    The way this SO came into the public arena was a notation in an immediate family member's obituary. It was hidden from Terri's family.

    And if he's in it for the money, why didn't he pocket the $1MM that that rich stem-cell research guy offered him to walk away?
    Because his lawyer convinced him this was a civil settlement trap. Can anyone say OJ?

    If he took the $1m, this would open a clear civil door for the family.

    Bottom line to me--what motive does the guy have for actively desiring the death of his wife? Assuming that the money isn't an issue (which, based on his rejecting these monetary offers, it probably isn't), wouldn't he have to be an epically sick fuck to stick around TRYING to end her (not particularly enjoyable) life rather than just walking away from the situation?
    Assuming money isn't an issue can't be determined. There is NO financial disclosure concerning Terri, her husband, possible insurance settlements or other future pending actions.

    It can't be determined in any way if there ARE any financial motivations until such an investigation can be performed.

    Maybe he doesn't want an additional CAT scan because ultimately there will be some doctor, somewhere, who is willing to suggest that Terri's tests don't look so bad and that she has a hope of recovery.
    This is the whole point and what colors this case so clearly.

    Michael has disallowed MRI's and petscans from being performed. MOST neurologists coast to coast assert that the true condition of her cerebral cortex has not been fully imaged or investigated... and making determinations of her condition without these tests is negligent.

    It seems to me like the courts have had ample opportunity to examine all these issues (abuse, her recovery prospects, whether she would want to live this way, etc.), and if posters don't think they have given proper consideration to the issues involved, they should probably just go read the judgments regarding her case.
    The Supreme Court this week has already given proper example of why this is so sick and wrong.

    A bill passes through Congress and is signed into LAW by the President. This is a normal procedure- and something that occurs regularly by our congressional progress. It's standard faire.

    When such an action occurs, the Supreme Court must either:
    a) Rule on the letter of such law.
    or
    b) Put the law up for review of determination of it being Constitutional (i.e. the Judicial branch has the ability to rule/judge laws passed through congress as being unconstitutional and thus reversing said laws).

    The problem is- the Supreme Court did no such effort. The letter of this law clearly states a de-novo review of this case (i.e. a full review of all new and existing evidence, NOT simply an 'appeal' or revisitation of the local or federal case) and that the feeding tubes be re-attached during this process.

    The Supreme Court did NOT follow the letter of the law.. nor did they hit session to deem if this new law was unconstitutional. Instead, one judge looked at it, personally deemed it 'constitutional', then completely ignored every letter of this law inside of 2-hours, then washed their hands of it. You can't have both- it's one or the other. You either enter session to reverse the law, or you follow/judge to letter of said law. We've seen a process in the public arena that has been occurring over the past 3 years- but now it's where everyone can clearly see it. Our judiciary system is failing us.


    Here's a question for the people who want to keep her alive.
    I think the extremists and misogynists are pushing a 'right to live' agenda by those in opposition of the events from the last week- which is truly NOT the case. I don't know a single person that is against the rulings in the past week that denies one's right to die or right to life. All of us understand that if WE were total vegetables, that we'd also want someone to put us out of our misery.

    This is a simple deflection tactic of those and you shouldn't buy it.

    The opposition is crying out for justice and investigation. Before you can rationally put someone to death, the minimal amount of investigation and determination NEEDS to be performed. There are 1000's of stroke cases deemed 'vegitative state' that make a full recovery, and only through advanced and modern brain imaging can such a determination be made.

    If Terri IS indeed deemed in a vegetative state, then I'd be all for the the MERCIFUL release of her life, and take modern steps to ensure this humane pathway to end her life.. The problem is- every single attempt to make such determination for the past 7 years has been BLOCKED by her husband.

    While some may consider Dr. Fahr a whackjob, how about the other 33 neurologists that also dictate that additional tests NEED to be performed in order to make such determination? Also, why did the husband have RESTRAINING order placed on protective services in the state of Florida? Why is he going to all these extreme efforts?

    Moreover, while the true document of the appeal filed by the parents today (that was rejected) haven't entered public record yet, 'rumors' state one of the many allegations on that appeal are the direct order of the husband to administer morphine to his wife prior to secondary physician observation. I have no idea if these media blurbs are true- but if the appeal has such allegations pending, they at least need to be investigated and debunked.

    If her husband is so certain she cannot respond and is in a vegetative state, why would he order morphine injections? And why prior to 'observations' while banning any form of truly objective medical testing?
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Learn a bit about medicine. Removal of feeding tubes is a common end of life procedure for patients that are never going to recover.
    Just because it's common does not mean that it is humane or right.

    YOU say that someone with a mushed CC wouldn't feel any pain; however, the truth is simply that according to brain wave charts/graphs, etc it's not registering as pain. With these folks, there's no way to say, "Ok, sweetie, we're in the 7th day of starving you to death...how do you feel?"

    MY problem is that they are trying to justify killing someone by starvation. Taking someone off a heart/lung machine produces instantaneous death (within mintues, at least)...letting someone linger for 2 weeks...that's just crazy. We should be doing that to convicts and giving people who are dying a quick and painless death. We are so damn backwards sometimes.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Learn a bit about medicine. Removal of feeding tubes is a common end of life procedure for patients that are never going to recover.
    Removal of tubes = they die in a few minutes, because they are on life-sustaining devices. She is not, so removal of tubes = she dies in a matter of two freaking weeks. How in the hell would you like to be laying there starving for two weeks???? You can't prove to me that someone who can respond to stimuli can't feel. She never even had the proper testing to prove it because her deadbeat husband blocked it. How can you fight against this and feel good about yourself?

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Well, I think this doesn't mean shit. I think the nurses' testimonies do mean something. I am not going to believe some timeline concocted by who-knows-who against a ton of reliable-looking and sounding people's testimonies and a video that I can see with my own eyes of someone responding to stimuli. The people I don't trust are the people you are agreeing with, which means either that you are a sociopath, or a really bad judge of character.
    Whatever, put your hands over your ears and shout 'lalalalalalala' when you are faced with something that counters your preconcieved notions. If you don't like that source find another. She was given years of therapy.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Whatever, put your hands over your ears and shout 'lalalalalalala' when you are faced with something that counters your preconcieved notions. If you don't like that source find another. She was given years of therapy.
    No answers, eh? So cite another beloved timeline that someone on the net concocted as evidence in a case....

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    She was given years of therapy.
    HAHAHA! Talk about putting your hands over your ears and shout 'lalalalalalala' when you are faced with FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

    Man, you have testimonies of DOZENS of medical practioners directly involved in her 'therapy' that have cited on NUMEROUS media sources that her husband ordered journals and logs be destroyed...

    You have 33 (and growing..) MD's and neurologists (yes, brain surgeons..) clearly explaining that a determination on her cerebral cortex condition cannot possibly be made with the existing testing that have been performed...

    You have a husband that has not only placed RESTRAINING orders against protective services in FL, but has also banned/barred ANY form of advanced brain imaging, but has also stood by and is willing to watch his wife wither away and slowly die over the course of 11-14 days..

    If he loved her, he'd either pillow suffocate her and take the manslaughter charge, -OR- would have worked a more progressive path to get her exported/morphine bombed.

    You still haven't answered about the videos. Do you suggest smiles, eyebrow motions and vocal responses as being 'random'? What's you personal opinion viewing those videos?
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Removal of tubes = they die in a few minutes, because they are on life-sustaining devices. She is not, so removal of tubes = she dies in a matter of two freaking weeks. How in the hell would you like to be laying there starving for two weeks???? You can't prove to me that someone who can respond to stimuli can't feel.
    Feeding tubes are included in life-sustaining devices. In cases where patients are able to breathe on their own but no swallow, the removal of the feeding tube is the means of terminating life support and allowing nature to take it's course. Like I've said before, don't rely on the opinions of others for everything. Do some fucking research.

    I'm all for alternative euthanasia methods, however, the governemnt does not permit it. It's also likely that transporting someone out of the country for that type of treatment would be illegal.

    She doesn't respond to stimuli. She has reflex movements that are sadly interpreted as responses.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    You still haven't answered about the videos. Do you suggest smiles, eyebrow motions and vocal responses as being 'random'? What's you personal opinion viewing those videos?
    Actually, I have:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Re: The Videos of Terri "smiling" etc.

    There are over four hours of video that the family took over the years. The amount of time where she actually appears to be 'responding' to outside stimuli amounts to a few seconds.
    Would you like another timeline? This is from the University of Miami's ethics department:

    http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    She doesn't respond to stimuli. She has reflex movements that are sadly interpreted as responses.
    I'll take that as the answer to my question about the videos. Fair enough- you don't feel the several minutes hosted (yes, there were a couple hours of videos- but the family only web-hosted several minutes of several exerpts) are conclusive enough evidence to persuade you her responses are beyond 'random'.. that's your right to your opinion, but I do disagree with it (obviously..).

    More to the point, what are your feelings about the statis of the Supreme Court right now?

    They have a law, on the books, that directly instructs the feeding tube be reinserted and reapplied to Terri. It's in black and white. It's clearly LAW right this second that the courts are ordered to re-insert the feeding tube -AND- begin a pro-novo review of the case.

    The Supreme Court decided not to reverse the law or investigate it's constitutionality.. nor did they decide to act upon the letter or enforce it as such. The bigger political issue is- when/if Terri dies, what accountability does the Supreme Court have at that point in time?

    They have law ordering them to action.. yet they wont overturn this law nor act upon it. This is the most distressing piece of the puzzle, IMO.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by polecat
    They have a law, on the books, that directly instructs the feeding tube be reinserted and reapplied to Terri. It's in black and white. It's clearly LAW right this second that the courts are ordered to re-insert the feeding tube -AND- begin a pro-novo review of the case.
    Which law would that be? Would you care to cite it?

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Feeding tubes are included in life-sustaining devices. In cases where patients are able to breathe on their own but no swallow, the removal of the feeding tube is the means of terminating life support and allowing nature to take it's course. Like I've said before, don't rely on the opinions of others for everything. Do some fucking research.

    I'm all for alternative euthanasia methods, however, the governemnt does not permit it. It's also likely that transporting someone out of the country for that type of treatment would be illegal.

    She doesn't respond to stimuli. She has reflex movements that are sadly interpreted as responses.
    If you think those responses are simply reflex, then I don't know what to tell ya'. Honestly, that's sad. I can see that she is aware and responsive to her mother and to other stimuli.

    I know that they pull the feeding tubes on people, and I don't agree with it. It's inhumane. Like I said, would you want that to happen to you? I doubt it's illegal to transport her, but I don't know, and neither do you. Others do get medical treatment in other countries all the time, and people did offer it, so I suppose they believe it's legal. I believe them. Why else would they have a reason to offer it?

    The major point here is that the husband blocked testing from taking place, tore up her journals, and there are major testimonies from plenty of people who I trust. I don't trust him nor his cohorts. I don't trust the courts. I know what goes on. If you want to believe it, do so. But after seeing that guy and hearing the evidence I've heard and testimonies by good people, I will not believe otherwise.

    I did read Ann's article. I think she is well-informed and reasonable, and obviously knows well the minds behind the decisions. Stupid? Not even in the slightest.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by polecat
    I'll take that as the answer to my question about the videos. Fair enough- you don't feel the several minutes hosted (yes, there were a couple hours of videos- but the family only web-hosted several minutes of several exerpts) are conclusive enough evidence to persuade you her responses are beyond 'random'.. that's your right to your opinion, but I do disagree with it (obviously..).
    It's not new footage. It may be the first time footage was web-hosted but that means nothing. The experts involved in the case have reviewed all of the tapes. If the family had significant amounts of tape of Terri responding they'd show it. As desperate as they are right now they would be showing it all. That's all they posted because that's all that exists of her 'reactions'

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