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Thread: Shiavo circus in Florida

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    The major point here is that the husband blocked testing from taking place, tore up her journals, and there are major testimonies from plenty of people who I trust. I don't trust him nor his cohorts. I don't trust the courts. I know what goes on. If you want to believe it, do so. But after seeing that guy and hearing the evidence I've heard and testimonies by good people, I will not believe otherwise.

    I did read Ann's article. I think she is well-informed and reasonable, and obviously knows well the minds behind the decisions. Stupid? Not even in the slightest.
    Testing was blocked because more testing is not needed. She has gone through plenty of tests that show her condition. Regarding the tearing up of the journals, please provide an unbiased source of that information.

    Ann Coulter is a wacko. Here are some of her famous quotes:
    We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.
    "A central component of liberal hate speech is to make paranoid accusations based on their own neurotic impulses, such as calling Republicans angry, hate-filled, and mean."
    "The swing voters---I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster. "

    Here is a transcript of Ann getting pwned on Larry King:
    http://users.rcn.com/skutsch/anticou...rryking98.html

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    It's not new footage. It may be the first time footage was web-hosted but that means nothing. The experts involved in the case have reviewed all of the tapes. If the family had significant amounts of tape of Terri responding they'd show it. As desperate as they are right now they would be showing it all. That's all they posted because that's all that exists of her 'reactions'
    I've seen more footage on tv. And I don't believe that is all. They claim she can watch tv and sing, on a regular basis. And they have the videotapes to prove it. You don't have to believe them. But I do. And I believe he is a sick fuck. I believe the evidence I have seen and heard from reliable people. You choose not to believe them, instead believing an obvious sociopathic lawyer and judge and a deadbeat husband. I have lived that life, I know they couldn't care less whether anyone lives or dies except for themselves and their cohorts. In fact, they will kill for any reason if they can get away with it and there is something in it for them. Which is the case here..... there is just too much evidence in place. If you don't believe it, honestly, I don't know what to tell ya'.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Testing was blocked because more testing is not needed. She has gone through plenty of tests that show her condition. Regarding the tearing up of the journals, please provide an unbiased source of that information.

    Ann Coulter is a wacko. Here are some of her famous quotes:
    We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.
    "A central component of liberal hate speech is to make paranoid accusations based on their own neurotic impulses, such as calling Republicans angry, hate-filled, and mean."
    "The swing voters---I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster. "

    Here is a transcript of Ann getting pwned on Larry King:
    You'll just have to watch FOX, and yes it is unbiased. Michael's lawyer has spoken as well as many others. And this is what I have determined after hearing all people speak. I'm not speaking of all of Ann's articles... I'm speaking of one, and it is well-informed and reasonable. Maybe you guys consider some of her other ideas whacky, but the ones about the case weren't. They were dead-on imo. I don't see anything stupid in that article either.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    I try not to get involved with this because it's all over my news, and i work at a hospital. Even so when a person is on life support, meaning they need a breathing machine etc, to do it ALL, and the family allows for "pull the plug" alot of these people live for days and weeks and longer. They will starve too.

    Now i don't know what she would have wanted, as she had no written will. Of course by law her husband does have ALL rights to what should be done with her. He has waited many many years for her take get better. She has not. If they make these laws, Government should not be allowed to step in...Period.

    Bottom line doctors do not know what she feels, if anything. This could all be reflex responce. She can't swallow liquid, she will drown.

    I do wish the parents where able to get her home and watch over her with more aggressive therapy, really. But the hubby should have first choice. It's all (sad to say) pecking order.

    God bless her.

    Pamela

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    My basic feeling on the case aligns completely with Pamela's.

    PC, you seem to have a problem with the Supreme Court's actions in this matter and it may be a fair complaint but I'm neither well-versed in the specifics of it or too interested in the legal issues involved as they apply to the issue at hand (whether Terri should be kept alive or not).

    ET, I don't know what to say. You seem to believe that several judges, court-appointed doctors, and court-appointed representatives of Terri are all in cahoots with her husband. I feel the same way in responding to your points that you obviously feel responding to the Sarge--if you just aren't willing to trust anything that anyone other than FOX News puts forth on the topic, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

    Included in one of the reports I got from one of the links above (an official Guardian ad Litem (sp?) report to Governor Bush) was a mention that Michael had at one time made a formal offer to renounce the estate for Terri's health costs. I just don't see his motive for being the evil guy you all seem to think he is. It just doesn't pass the smell test that the guy lived with his in-laws for 2 years after the accident, took his wife for experimental therapy in California, and has basically invested 10 years of his time and energy for a payoff of a few hundred grand (less his legal costs).
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  6. #56
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    My basic feeling on the case aligns completely with Pamela's.

    PC, you seem to have a problem with the Supreme Court's actions in this matter and it may be a fair complaint but I'm neither well-versed in the specifics of it or too interested in the legal issues involved as they apply to the issue at hand (whether Terri should be kept alive or not).

    ET, I don't know what to say. You seem to believe that several judges, court-appointed doctors, and court-appointed representatives of Terri are all in cahoots with her husband. I feel the same way in responding to your points that you obviously feel responding to the Sarge--if you just aren't willing to trust anything that anyone other than FOX News puts forth on the topic, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

    Included in one of the reports I got from one of the links above (an official Guardian ad Litem (sp?) report to Governor Bush) was a mention that Michael had at one time made a formal offer to renounce the estate for Terri's health costs. I just don't see his motive for being the evil guy you all seem to think he is. It just doesn't pass the smell test that the guy lived with his in-laws for 2 years after the accident, took his wife for experimental therapy in California, and has basically invested 10 years of his time and energy for a payoff of a few hundred grand (less his legal costs).
    I believe RELIABLE evidence, doctors who have come forth in opposition to NO NOT court-appointed doctors, but doctors PAID by Michael. THEY WERE NOT COURT-APPOINTED. And I believe the nurses who have come forth. I don't just believe the news, I believe the people who are honest. I believe evidence, the evidence that the journals were torn up by Michael, that there was never a Pep scan or MRI, because he blocked it, that there was not therapy as the nurses testified, and that Michael wanted her dead for money reasons. You need to go back and read the previous posts. Obviously you haven't. It is several media resources and people that I have cited too, not just FOX, although I do believe they are giving a good representation of offering people from all sides to speak.

    THE FACT THAT MICHAEL WOULD NOT ALLOW THE TESTING TO TAKE PLACE AND THE JOURNALS WERE DESTROYED SAYS IT ALL. The nurses were there, the others were not there.

    And FYI, all sociopaths are in cahoots. They will do whatever to save one of their own from any prosecution, against anyone else.
    Last edited by erotictonic; 03-24-2005 at 02:30 PM.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    I don't usually post in this forum for many reasons- I'm very opinionated and I'm bound to piss someone off... but.. I have been following this case- I have an interest in it because of a friend of mine who was on life support for many years before her family chose to pull the plug...

    I don't believe that Terri is in a vegetative state, I believe that she is aware of what is taking place around her.. I find her husband a complete disgrace to society and her parents have already said that they would care for her.. so what's the deal? There really isn't any more money left.. its been eaten away at her care.. I find her husband just truthfully in my opinion wanting her dead and out of the way.

    However, as devil's advocate.. this is why people should have a living will in place..... if you haven't done so already get one- get a power of attorney and a living will.. If anyone needs help I would be more than happy to help you with them... This is an area of law that I know well, and have done many estate plans, living wills and power of attorneys as well as last wills... By law, her husband has the rights to everything and her parents don't... they are at his mercy.... I believe, that he never divorced her if memory serves me correctly.. therefore, in the eyes of the law, it is his final determination as to what happens to her....

    I find this story sad and I hope that they don't just kill her off, however, sadly, I think that is exactly what is going to happen.


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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    It's not new footage. It may be the first time footage was web-hosted but that means nothing. The experts involved in the case have reviewed all of the tapes.
    We can get off the topic of the footage. You clearly stated your opinion- you feel from viewing them what you see is random/reflex response. If this is a fair portrayal of your opinion, we can just agree to disagree on this point.

    Which law would that be? Would you care to cite it?
    It's been coined "Schiavo's Law" and it's what caused President Bush to make an emergency trip from Texas to Washington to sign early Monday morning.

    I'm not feeling too warm and fuzzy about this emergency session, but it did happen- and similar has happened in the past. A bill was constructed, pushed through congress (passed), then signed into law and dropped on the Supreme Court's lap.

    The response that was expected was a simple ruling to investigate the constitutionality of this law, and if found unconstitutional- reverse it. The other result would be to simply follow/enforce said law, which would create the environment to empower the Supreme Court to order the re-insertion of her feeding tube pending a full pro-novo review of the entire case.

    You can do a 'google' of "Schiavo Law" (not to be confused with "Terri's Law" which Gov Bush in FL passed prior) and pick your preferred source(s). Just about every media source has coverage of Monday morning's Bush + Congress action.

    The original draft of the bill->law for public proliferation:
    http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/s...bill31905.html

    And the timeline links you provided also *should* at least raise an eyebrow on Michael's motives. It shows a pretty clear pattern of barring any form of advanced diagnosis, therapy or admittance of evidence into the case:
    Some examples:
    ------
    *March 2, 2000 - The Schindlers file a petition with Judge Greer to allow “swallowing” tests to be performed on Terri Schiavo to determine if she can consume—or learn to consume—nutrients on her own.

    *March 7, 2000 - Judge Greer denies the Schindlers’ petition to perform “swallowing” tests on Terri Schiavo.

    *March 24, 2000 - Judge Greer grants Michael Schiavo’s petition to limit visitation to Terri Schiavo as well as to bar pictures

    *April 26, 2001 - The Schindlers file an emergency motion with Judge Greer for relief from judgment based upon new evidence, which includes a claim that a former girlfriend of Michael Schiavo will testify that he lied about Terri Schiavo’s wishes; Judge Greer dismisses the motion as untimely. Also on this date, the Schindlers file a new civil suit that claims that Michael Schiavo perjured himself when he testified that Terri Schiavo had stated an aversion to remaining on life support.

    *October 17, 2001 - The 2nd DCA rules that 5 doctors should examine Terri Schiavo to determine if she can improve with new medical treatment. The Schindlers and Michael Schiavo are to choose 2 doctors each, and the court is to appoint a doctor. (as if the opinion of any Florida doctor appointed by Greer would be in question...)

    *December 14, 2001 - Michael Schiavo petitions the Florida Supreme Court to stay the October 17, 2001 ruling of the 2nd DCA.


    *November 15, 2002 - The Schindlers contend that Michael Schiavo might have abused Terri Schiavo and this abuse led to her condition. They ask the court for more time to collect evidence, and to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian.

    *October 31, 2003 - Judge Demers appoints Dr. Jay Wolfson as Terri Schiavo’s guardian ad litem. Dr. Wolfson holds both medical and legal degrees; he is also a public health professor at the University of South Florida.

    *September 17, 2003 - Judge Greer orders the removal of the PEG tube to take place on October 15, 2003. He also rejects the Schindlers’ request that Terri Schiavo be given therapy to learn how to eat without the tube.

    *December 1, 2003 - Jay Wolfson, guardian ad litem, concludes in his report that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement.

    *March 29, 2004 - Judge Greer denies a motion filed by the Schindlers seeking to have Michael Schiavo defend himself in a hearing; they allege that he is violating a 1996 court order that requires him to share a sufficient amount of Terri Schiavo’s medical information. Michael Schiavo claims that he has shared an adequate amount of information through attorneys.


    It's pretty obvious, as the record shows, that Michael has a clear record of being antagonistic towards any form of information interchange, attempts by the family to improve/rehabilitate her, or otherwise allow advanced medical treatment, therapies or release of information.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Yep. Why did he not want to allow the parents to visit, 5 doctors to examine her, or any pictures to be taken???? This is clearly NOT a person who was interested in her rehabilitation.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    I understand that POV. However, he is placed in a dilema. He needed to move on but he disagreed with the way the family wants to deal with the situation. According to him (and several other witnesses) she would not want to be kept alive in this way. If he divorces her the parents will keep her alive indefinitely and this is not what she would have wanted.
    Even if it ISN'T what she would have wanted she doesn't know anyway, right ??? She doesn't know what is going on, accordng to those who want her dead. So why not keep her alive ??? she isn't laying there thinking "this isn't what I wanted". Her parents would be happy, she doesn't know what the f*ck is going on, the only person upset is michael.
    I truly, truly believe, and I am sure I'll get slammed for this by someone, but I believe he put her in this state and he doesn't want to get busted for it.
    He's free to move on with his life. He has!

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    As far as starvign people to death, why not starve death row inmates to death. Why not immediately start starving that creep who killed Jessica Lunsford ?? He's getting 3 hots and a cot and Ts is starving to death . Twisted !

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by SthnrnGrl77
    Even if it ISN'T what she would have wanted she doesn't know anyway, right ??? She doesn't know what is going on, accordng to those who want her dead. So why not keep her alive ??? she isn't laying there thinking "this isn't what I wanted". Her parents would be happy, she doesn't know what the f*ck is going on, the only person upset is michael.
    It makes no difference that the is unaware of the surroundings and unable to suffer. It's what she wanted and that is all that matters. She shouldn't be forced to stay alive just to fill her parents' inability to accept that she is gone and will never come back. It is extremely selfish for the parents to keep her alive for her sake.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Do you think she "WANTED" her husband to fuck another woman , pop out some kids and put her parents through this mental torture all while she lay there in a dark room ? What she WANTED, is a divorce.
    It's what he SAID she wanted. There is nothing to back that up. AS someone else said, he destroyed all of her journals. He has proven to be an abuser (per his ex girlfriends) .

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Gynger
    However, as devil's advocate.. this is why people should have a living will in place..... if you haven't done so already get one- get a power of attorney and a living will.. If anyone needs help I would be more than happy to help you with them... This is an area of law that I know well, and have done many estate plans, living wills and power of attorneys as well as last wills... By law, her husband has the rights to everything and her parents don't... they are at his mercy.... I believe, that he never divorced her if memory serves me correctly.. therefore, in the eyes of the law, it is his final determination as to what happens to her....
    Sure, but even living wills can be contested. There is a similar case in Philly where a dispute is taking place. The patient has a living will that explicitly names a particular family member as power of attorney and also states that life support should not be administered. A second family member contests this and as a result, it's in the courts.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by SthnrnGrl77
    Do you think she "WANTED" her husband to fuck another woman , pop out some kids and put her parents through this mental torture all while she lay there in a dark room ? What she WANTED, is a divorce.
    It's what he SAID she wanted. There is nothing to back that up. AS someone else said, he destroyed all of her journals. He has proven to be an abuser (per his ex girlfriends) .
    Yes he really is the devil. I've said it before, cite an unbiased source if you are going to make those claims.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    At this point, other than Bill Fritz ordering Terri to be taken into protective custody as a congressional witness or Jeb Bush wilfully defying Florida court orders, the outcome of the Schaivo case appears to be a foregone conclusion. However, the matter of (re)balance of power among the executive, judicial and legislative branches is only beginning ! As I said earlier, this matter will undoubtedly continue to percolate at least through the 2006 election cycle.

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    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    from cnn.com , very sad , doesnt sound like to me she would have wanted to starve to death.

    PINELLAS PARK, Florida (AP) -- Diane Meyer can recall only one time that her best friend, Terri Schiavo, really got angry with her. It was in 1981, and it haunts her still.

    The recent high school graduates had just seen a television movie about Karen Ann Quinlan, who had been in a coma since collapsing six years earlier and was the subject of a bitter court battle over her parents' decision to take her off a respirator. Meyer says she told a cruel joke about Quinlan, and it set Terri off.

    "She went down my throat about this joke, that it was inappropriate," Meyer says. She remembers Terri saying she wondered how the doctors and lawyers could possibly know what Quinlan was really feeling or what she would want.

    "Where there's life," Meyer recalls her saying, "there's hope."

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Her friends, her family are biased , yet someone who wants to STARVE HIS WIFE TO DEATH is credible !?? Amazing !

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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by SthnrnGrl77
    Even if it ISN'T what she would have wanted she doesn't know anyway, right ??? She doesn't know what is going on, accordng to those who want her dead. So why not keep her alive ??? she isn't laying there thinking "this isn't what I wanted". Her parents would be happy, she doesn't know what the f*ck is going on, the only person upset is michael.
    I truly, truly believe, and I am sure I'll get slammed for this by someone, but I believe he put her in this state and he doesn't want to get busted for it.
    He's free to move on with his life. He has!
    I believe that too. His actions show it. He just had to prove that the bulimia killed her, enough to sue for malpractice. Then when the parents wanted bone scans to show she was abused, it was denied. Anything the parents tried to do to show his true motives was denied. That judge is obviously on Michael's side.

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Here's a shirt for you Serg, I'm sure it'll be very fashionable with a pair of simple jeans
    http://www.glennbeck.com/tshirtoffer.htm

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Then when the parents wanted bone scans to show she was abused, it was denied.
    why is that serg ?? Why not a simple bone scan ?? Prove the bitch (as he called her) did this to herself and he'd come out smelling like roses ! Hmmm maybe because HE DID THIS TO HER ! Lightbulb !

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergent D
    Yes he really is the devil. I've said it before, cite an unbiased source if you are going to make those claims.
    don't have to site shit. it's common sense and logic. no woman would want her husband to start screwing another woman while she lies there in a hellhole and gets no rehab and certainly wouldn't want to put her parents/family through this mental torture. cut the legal CRAP and the technicality bullshit and use some COMMON SENSE !

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Anyways, I'm done with this. I discussed this issue with people a hell of a lot more informed on the issue for nearly 400 posts on another message board. There is a strong resistance by some (not all) in favor of keeping her alive to the citation of unbiased information and way too much baseless conspiracy theorists crap.

    Keep going if you wish but here's something you conspiracy theorists might look into getting:

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    Posting 400 times on a message board is a way to get reliable info yet the womans family and friends are unreliable ! Houston, we have a problem!

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    Default Re: Shiavo circus in Florida

    conspiracy theory, how laughable ! Since when is not wanting to watch a woman starve to death related to a conspiracy theory ??? You may wanna get those meds refilled or adjusted sarge !

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