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Thread: Hello, my name is Thorn

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Hello, my name is Thorn

    I haven't been involved in the "custy" oriented strip-club boards in some time because well, candidly, I thought everything I had to be say in such forums was said, and said again, and said yet again.

    Those of you who have been around for 20 something years in these venues might remember "Moresuo" a handle on the Usenet forum 'alt.sex.ass-c", or in the Yahoo NYC strip-club forum "Not A 90s Man". Both of them are me.

    I had been fairly active on the "pink" side of this board, but a deluge of PM's by some of the female moderators there, and eventually a comment from Pyrce himself, let it be known to me that my comments were not exactly welcome. Oh, I was invited to continue to engage in dialog, as long as said dialog didn't ruffle any dancer feathers. This though all I did was point out the obvious 'pink' elephants that went tripping through the threads of illogic, bad temperament toward fellow human beings, and the occasional anti-social act that was being bragged about. I was accused of being "anti-dancer", when I am no such thing at all.

    Let me say that again, with feeling: I am not anti-dancer! I don't give my money to people I disdain. That would be foolish, and I am not a foolish man. Hard headed to the point of being relentless, perhaps, but not foolish. [Though, the way some dancers act about it you might think that a man who gives any money to a dancer and calls himself not foolish is something of an oxymoron]

    I haven't been given the boot, but it has been made abudantly clear to me that the "pink side" is the dancer area and what ever they say goes. It doesn't matter if your posts are polite, soundly grounded in the logic of how the real world works and not that of the fantasy of the S-C, if particular dancer moderators take umbridge to what you are saying then it gets deleted and you start getting the aforementioned PM's. {In fairness, some moderators made attempts to be fair, and I even received encouragement from some}

    Rule number one on the pink side is: Do not refute what the dancers say, even if it is obvious that what is being said flies in the face of reason.

    It doesn't particularly matter, it might seem, that the dancer making the comment is 22 years old and has the life experience of same and no formal education past high school. The man might have position, status, be worldly and possess an ivy league education. He could even be a fourty something, a gradutate of the school of hard knocks, wise beyond his years in experience and with more understanding of strip-club employ then the dancer herself; if a dancer said it and its on the pink side than it must be correct.

    So, here I am. Not because I feel restricted over there [even though I do] but because the scenario, as it has unfolded, has given me a new appreciation for "over here". For it can truly be said that if I must choose between our dysfunction and theirs, I would rather deal with ours.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Welcome to the dark (er, Blue) side Thorn. It's not so bad over here, I think you'll like it.

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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Yeah, don't think all pinkies are goody two shoes. Lot of hoes and hypocrites over there



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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    I won't call them hypocrites, because a hypocrite is aware of what they are doing. And I certainly won't call a woman a "hoe".

    What I objected to was when a dancer would make a statement that flew in the face of logic, or decorum, or a known given standard, and I would politely respond in contridiction to the post, stating the standard as known,[such as the simplist standard known to mankind, The Golden Rule, as in: Its not cool to do what you said you did because you wouldn't like to be treated that way yourself, of have someone you cared about treated that way . Thereafter getting rebuttal argument that didn't address anything that I had said, as in, "I would to want to be treated that way", but attacking me personally and telling me I had no right to an opinion on the matter because I wasn't a dancer.

    What the F##K! Someone brags about violating a concept that is a given of social decorum such as the Golden Rule and ANY other HUMAN BEING is entitled to an opinion. What does it have to do with being a dancer or not?

    It left me scratching my head wondering if it was a function of just very young age and lack of life experience speaking, or an arrogance born out of... well I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to what such arrogance could be born out of.

    But, I don't want to get off on a rant...

    -----

    BTW, I wish to point out that there were some dancers that did engage me with well thought out, even if I considered them somehwhat based an rather scratchy logic, rebutal [EvanEscense is an example of same].

    I can agree to disagree with those who fight for their perspective with intelligence, even though some of their posts lacked respect for the other side of the equation... something I attempted to give. Those that slide into ad hominem attack I have no respect for, as they only show themselves to be without the tools to think critically or to ponder, logically, larger questions of any import.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    i'm sure you are aware that the dancers come to sw to vent. there are times when all one wants to do is vent around others who understand where their coming from. getting a lesson in "ethics, morality, and proper ettiquette" is not what they want.

    i'm sure VG made herself clear when she said that you were welcoe to post there...but to respect the fact that dancers don't want a "lecture"...they just want to vent. you tend to go on and on and on and on and on about what you think is right.

    it's not about you. it's about the dancers having the one place to vent, come for support, etc.

    let the dancers have their space. the site was made for them, it's all for them. this site is for you.

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    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    I'm sure you were referring to me and i did go off on you. it has been years of dealing with your lectures that finally pushed me to lash out. i wont apologise because you know damn good and well what you were doing and continued to do so after being asked not to. oh and FYI I am quite a bit older then 22 and have many years of club and life experience, thanks.

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Actually, it was a composite of moderators and dancer/posters I was referring to, not you specifically; but since you chimed in:

    It is precisely the inaccuracy and over the top reactions to polite and respectful attempts at communication that were driving me to distraction.

    By way of example in your own post above. Quote : "... it has been years of dealing with your lectures that finally pushed me to lash out."

    In point of fact, as the membership info under my name clearly points out, I have been a member here only a little over two years. For the longest period between Septermber of 2003 and Decenber of 2004 the account lay dormant. .

    So I have been active on SW for a combined period of approximately 9 months. Hardly the 'years' you stipulate above.

    It is this penchant for overblown, ad hominem, responses that attack the messenger and not the message, and the refusal to counter logic with ideas instead of venom, that leads me to the impressions that I have formed and listed above.

    I thank you for making my case so eloquently, and completely.
    Last edited by Thorn; 03-25-2005 at 05:09 PM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default General comment:

    There are 'thinkers' and there are 'reactors'.

    Thinkers counter ideas with ideas. They don't challange the notion that people have a right to an opinion contray to theirs. They acknowledge the humanity of others present. They let their comments rise, and fall, in the marketplace of public opinion based on their merit.

    Reactors counter ideas with emotional vitrol. They counter the humanity of others with disdain and frequently point out that they believe those that disagree with them aren't entitled to an opinion in the first place. They do not see a challange to their opinion as a chance to exchange ideas but as a personal attack, so they have no problem making it personal and countering in an ad hominem style.

    One promotes communication, the other detracts from it.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Featured Member Moneywise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio
    i'm sure you are aware that the dancers come to sw to vent. there are times when all one wants to do is vent around others who understand where their coming from. getting a lesson in "ethics, morality, and proper ettiquette" is not what they want.

    i'm sure VG made herself clear when she said that you were welcoe to post there...but to respect the fact that dancers don't want a "lecture"...they just want to vent. you tend to go on and on and on and on and on about what you think is right.

    it's not about you. it's about the dancers having the one place to vent, come for support, etc.

    let the dancers have their space. the site was made for them, it's all for them. this site is for you.
    Very well stated scorpio.


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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Here's some classic Thorn at a pink party on X and sex:



    Sometimes dancers ask for advice about X and other drugs. I explain some basic concepts of brain chemistry, just as Thorn did, and they forget it by Saturday night. So I stayed out of that thread.

    You can't save the pink world. If you want really great sex, stay sober and find a little freak who doesn't do drugs.

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    Here's some classic Thorn at a pink party on X and sex...
    Ok, SW2. But I don't really get the point you were driving at.

    I really only look for two things out of any post I make [unless it's clearly a cunard]:

    1) Is the information posted accurate to the best of my knowledge.

    2) Does it take into consideration the fact that the persons reading it, or the individual it address, is a fellow human being and not just some faceless entity at the end of an electron stream.

    If it does both am cool with it and that is all I expect out of anyone else's post.

    As to being long winded, rentless, and occassionally pompous. Hey, I cop to that. Always have.

    It is a deliberate effort to remain detached, cool and collected. The whole college professor thang. You want to see the 'lets be loose and hang ten guy, you have to know me personally. But the security bug in me makes me willfully careful about who gets to cross the "Thorn-IRL" boundery. Ain't but a handful that can match the handle to a face. And those that can won't ever say, which is why they got to a chance to know me in real life in the first place [not that I am claiming, in any way, that anyone should actually want to].
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default To Scorpio and Moneywise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    Very well stated scorpio.
    Yeah, I do go on so.

    But you see... no one faults the logic. They get all in my face about not having a right to an opinion, and how its all about people venting.

    But the sight is open. Customers and dancers alike see it.

    CONSIDERATION of that fact is totally missing. They vent all over the screen in view of the very people they are venting against and with no consideration for their feelings or their thoughts, and with the utter gaul to state that those being dissed have no right to respond. [While all the while stating how no one is polite to them, and strippers have to deal with others giving them a bad rap because they are strippers, wanting and demanding respect... which I am not saying they don't deserve, while openly disrespecting others LITERALLY TO THEIR FACES... the ultimate hypocrisy.] NICE! All I am guilty of is calling them on it.

    If its all about venting than close the site. That is easy enough.

    Ah, what's the use. I'm only championing things like the Golden Rule, civility, not requesting that prejudices against you be stripped away while openly being prejudice against others, and other unheard of concepts like that. Its not like its anything anyone's ever heard of before.

    Jeeze.

    This way to the Koolaid. The White Knights will lead the way as they know it so well. Feel free to wear that last bit only if the shoe fits.
    Last edited by Thorn; 03-25-2005 at 10:39 PM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Now is there understanding. Is their RESPECT being given for the respect being requested.

    Totally different story.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default To anyone who wants to comment:

    Let us make this extraordinarly simple:

    Tell me any of the following are wrong:

    1) It is wrong to treat others in a way you wouldn't want yourself, or someone you cared for, treated.

    2) It is foolish to request equity, while at the same time showing you easily deny it to others.

    3) Same as #2 but replace equity with respect.

    4) Doing #'s 2 and 3 with any regularlity probably indicates you have at least one or two hypocritic bones in your body.

    5) Venting, when such includes remarks that are unkind, disrespectful, and occasionally outright hurtful, in front of an audience that consists of, at least in part, the very people you are making the comments about is inconsiderate, rude and obnoxious behavior.

    6) Suggesting, with any clarity of thought, that those who are being shown this lack of respect, unkindness and occassional hurt should not respond in their defense is adding insult to injury.

    7) Expecting that they won't anyway, over your objections, is probably foolish.

    Find fault with the logic of any of the above. I've made my feelings public, and am willing to let them rise or fall in the face of public opinion. State any of the above is incorrect and bind yourself to the same. [the gentleman said with a sincere smile]
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    BTW, don't throw the pink side mission statement at me... because the stated goals of same fly in the face of it being allowed to remain a publically open site. [See #'s 5, 6 & 7] .

    I am not a PC sort of guy, and even I know that allowing someone in so they can witness themselves being kicked is a strange bit of business. IF the mission statement of the pink side is to be absolutely true to itself, it should be open to dancers only in its entirety. Otherwise acknowledge the presence of the customers and allow for the usual social nicities. Such as, its not nice to allow some of your guests to spit in other guest's faces, etc.

    Same thing for blue site. The respect level same-same.
    Last edited by Thorn; 03-25-2005 at 11:34 PM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Scorpio and Moneywise.

    Yeah, I do go on so.

    But you see... no one faults the logic. They get all in my face about not having a right to an opinion, and how its all about people venting.
    Okay - this is just so you know, because you don't seem to. The reason nobody goes on about your logic is because it is not that great and there is no point. You simply deny the existence of anything outside of what you have decided is "logical" - which is frequently just a faulty anaology, and when people contradict it with anecdotes, experience or pretty much anything you just make more faulty analogies and attack their intelligence or ethics. I don't really want to go on about this - it's just in case nobody has ever told you.
    And, as a side note - venting doesn't need to be logical, rational, fair or nice. That's what makes it venting and not civil conversation.

    But the sight is open. Customers and dancers alike see it.
    You think that Pryce should close the site so dancers can vent? That makes no sense at all. Asking someone who is a regular poster to maybe keep his posts where they are welcome and wanted? Is that really equally nonsensical? Why exactly do you WANT to post where you are so clearly not necessary, anyway? Again - I don't want to get right into it. This is just because it seems like nobody has ever told you these things, and we are all assuming that someone has, and it might be useful for you to know.

    CONSIDERATION of that fact is totally missing. They vent all over the screen in view of the very people they are venting against and with no consideration for their feelings or their thoughts, and with the utter gaul to state that those being dissed have no right to respond.
    Absolutely right. No consideration or politeness whatsoever. No concern for the fragile customers ( you guys can feel free to guffaw all over your screen now). Seriously - these guys are tough. Not so tough that they could beat ME in an armwrestle, but they are doing okay. Somehow, none of them are arousing my pity for their little feelings, and I'm reasonably sure that they would spit my pity back at me (politely, of course) should I offer it over something so silly. Really, again - part of what makes it venting - as opposed to making nice and agreeing with you, which is really what we call WORKING. Dude - civility would be actually respecting opinions that are different than yours rather than saying that they MUST be invalid because they are female, on this site, and therefore bound to be those of a 22 year old who only has a high school education versus the Solid Manly Opinons of the Ivy League Schooled 40 year old. And as I said to someone else recently - if you expect us to put up with your crap you can AT LEAST be amusing while you do it - really, it's what this site specializes in, male and female both.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Ok...I wasn't going to say anything, but now I am getting annoyed.

    Jay: Please feel free to edit/delete as you see fit.

    THORN,

    Why do you come over here and bash me? I'M the one who took the (insane amount) of time to explain what was going on and why it was happening. You repsond with 2 pages of PM's. The simple fact is this: you were continually sticking your unwanted comments into every venting thread that there is. Telling the dancers that they shouldn't treat people like "they're treating people". You think you are here to teach us lessons and espouse to us what it means to be a wonderful, kind, caring, compassionate human being? We're just here to vent, to be with others who understand what it is like to work in this environment.

    The clubs for dancers is very different than the clubs are for anyone else. Working or visiting. It is extremely competitive and not a good idea to vent much at the club. The PINK site is the only place that a lot of us have to do that. YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT. Instead, you come here and bitch moan and groan about "your rights" to say whatever you want, when you want to. There are LOTS of other guys on the Pink site (Jay, FBR, Djoser, etc) who very rarely post in those venting threads. They accept it for what it is.

    I'm tired of your little "feel sorry for me..the dancers are all bitches and they've crucified me" act. We've respected your "desire" to post...we've simply asked that you refrain from doing so in EVERY SINGLE FRICKING TOPIC...ESPECIALLY THE VENTING ONES!! The other guys have done it...why is it so hard for you to do?

    Geezus...

  18. #18
    Featured Member Moneywise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Asking someone who is a regular poster to maybe keep his posts where they are welcome and wanted?
    That's a rather large assumption Jenny. Speaking for myself alone, I can definitely say I have enjoyed the strange serenity that exists over here on the blue site.


    I typically gloss over Thorn’s short stories since they all follow the same company line.


    <I’m right. You’re wrong. Neener neener.>


    That sort of behavior typically bores me. I normally wouldn’t surround myself in RL with that mode of thought and, thankfully, haven’t had to deal with it here in the place where I come to connect with others that share my diversionary addiction.


    Welcomed on the blue site? (to each his own) I have always seen the blue site as a place where a greater sense of reality exists. It’s a place where those of us with a common bond can share experiences and stories. It’s also a place where lots of light hearted activity exists. It’s a place where the experienced customers and “adventurous” ladies of the pink side interact well with each other.


    Although I said I would never post on the pink site I have found myself posting over there on occasion. I, generally, enjoy interaction on both sites. All it really takes is respect for one another. I know where not to post. I may have a comment on a subject I read over there but, knowing what that site is all about, I keep my comment to myself. We can agree to disagree without stepping all over each others’ toes and pissing each other off. Hell, you and mr_p do it every day and you live to tell about it. I'm not so sure Thorn has a solid grasp of that concept.


    I would welcome a kinder gentler Thorn with open arms. However, the Thorn I know that typically thrives on condescension wouldn't appeal to me in the least.


    I wouldn't surround myself in RL with that sort of personality and have enjoyed sharing with others on this board with which I have a common bond.


    Thankfully I am very familiar with the ignore option. I've never had to use it but if it means those few minutes of my day taken out to scan the board will remain peaceful and informative I will gladly use it.


    I'm far from perfection. However, I have a general understanding and a mutual respect for the beliefs of others. At least IMO, that's very important to getting a point across.


    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Goddess
    THORN,

    Why do you come over here and bash me?

    This is also my suspicion as well. I'm suspicious that Thorn somehow sees the blue site more as an area to bash indirectly and get away with it. I would see that as a depreciation of what the blue site is all about. (just my opinion but a strong one)


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    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    thanks jenny, vg and moneywise. nicely said. that is all from me on this topic!

  20. #20
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    Ok...I wasn't going to say anything, but now I am getting annoyed.

    Jay: Please feel free to edit/delete as you see fit.

    THORN,

    Why do you come over here and bash me?
    WHOW!

    Way over the top.

    VG, I didn't bash you. For Godsakes Venus thinks it was her.. Guilty consciences I guess [Sorry... Sorry... couldn't resist. I mentioned no moderators by name, I said some bashed me and some where fair and some were even encouraging. How would anyone know which was which until you chimed in and identified yourself.]

    Go back and read ,as you obviously didn't the first time. [geeze the number of people who comment around here on what someone wrote wiith no comprehension of what it is they are commenting on because they obviously didn't read, or didn't understand, what was written...and why are they always looking to make it personal.. did I get personal with you, even once].

    At least admit you were wrong about that much. Did I mention a single name? Did I not leave it wide open as to who were the people I considered fair, who were the encouragers, and who were the bashers?

    Bottomline. I stated an opinion, to which I am entitled. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    I don't feel sorry for myself, and I don't think dancers are bitches. I do think that there are a few people around here that are a little full of themselves, and if you choose to count me in with them fine but I am TRULY not by myself in that regard.. [chuckling good naturedly]

    I don't want pity. I want people to THINK! Customers about dancers [see my "its not right to splooge on folks that didn't ask to be splooged on" comments in another thread], and dancers about customers. IF we have reached a day and age when people don't have to think anymore.. well then, what can I say. Let's all run out and join PETA and throw some paint at folks wearing fur while the people all run around treating each other like shit. [again.. smiling good naturedly]

    It never ceases to amaze me that dancers keep complaining on these pages about how crappy the strip-clubs are and don't realize, as I keep trying to point out, that their attitudes as expressed on these pages are part and parcel of what makes them crappy in the first place. Change has to come from someplace and the dancers are the pivots the clubs turn on ... who better to promote the change then the dancers.

    I don't think I can teach a damn soul here anything. First off, it would require a mind open to concepts other than their own and to say some of the minds about here are closed to any concept they don't want to hear would be an understatement of massive proportion.

    Anyway... all my words are is some electronic grafifti on the walls around here. People are free to do what ever they want to do with them [and boy do they]. But what they can't do, if I am right about any of it, is say that no one ever suggested these very basic concepts I have outlined.

    Now, I have no desire to bruise anyone's ego or turn their yogart sour [wait, yogart already is sour... well, never mind that part] and I am not the one who keeps making this stuff personal. I am not only open to other's ideas, I invite them, but all I see is mud being thrown around. Lots of heat and very little light.

    So there. and when all is said and done...

    I, sincerely, wish you well...
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    <I’m right. You’re wrong. Neener neener.>

    Thorn has a solid grasp of that concept.


    I would welcome a kinder gentler Thorn with open arms. However, the Thorn I know that typically thrives on condescension wouldn't appeal to me in the least.
    If that is all you get out of my posts then all I can say is you really haven't read them. But you already said that all you do is 'gloss over them' so that really doesn't surprise me. How to you comprehend the intent of something you gloss over?

    Sidenote: You are decidely free to think as you choose, and I'd be the last person in the world to try and stop you, but you would be underestimating me to presume I have anything less then a solid grasp on what is what [usually... but there is always the exception that proves the rule and I'd never debate that].

    Also, you are incorrect to assume that along with condecending, my posts are closed minded. I invite, all the time, contrary opinion. It is all about the open dialog and the exchange of ideas. When I think someone is wrong, of course I say so AND I give reasons why. I point out reference points to back up what I am saying, etc. However, when someone proves me wrong, and it has happened, I slap them on the back and say "Well done and thank you for given me a new perspective.", and sincerely mean it when I say it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    This is also my suspicion as well. I'm suspicious that Thorn somehow sees the blue site more as an area to bash indirectly and get away with it. I would see that as a depreciation of what the blue site is all about. (just my opinion but a strong one)
    And you'd be as wrong about that as anyone else who thinks so, but assume away. Don't let l'il ol' me stop you.

    Wishing well...
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    And finally.. a P.S. Not a single soul took any of my seven points and stated that any of them were wrong. Frankly, you can't. The concepts they are based on are universal, generally excepted world wide as basic common sense when speaking in terms of how civilized people treat each other.

    And if those seven points are right, than what some people are doing around here is wrong. Simple as that.

    Nuff said.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  23. #23
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello, my name is Thorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn
    WHOW!

    Way over the top.

    VG, I didn't bash you. For Godsakes Venus thinks it was her.. Guilty consciences I guess [Sorry... Sorry... couldn't resist. I mentioned no moderators by name, I said some bashed me and some where fair and some were even encouraging. How would anyone know which was which until you chimed in and identified yourself.]
    You basically bashed ALL of the mods. You bashed the dancers on the pink site. That includes myself.

    I am not feeling guilty. I am angry that as much as I tried to help you understand what you were dealing with that you would come over here and start this bullshit.


    At least admit you were wrong about that much. Did I mention a single name? Did I not leave it wide open as to who were the people I considered fair, who were the encouragers, and who were the bashers?
    Again, you are bashing the dancers. You were and continue to be disrespectful to the dancers who the entire pink site was made for. You may not see it that way and you may believe that you have some "right" on the pink side...but no matter what ANY dancer/mod said to you, it wasn't right, you didn't agree with it, you were being stifled, you were being picked on, you were being singled out, you were being crucified, you think your first amendment rights were being violated. I could go on and on. Ridiculous. You may not have bashed me as a mod, but you most certainly saw fit to come over here and bash me as a dancer. Singled me out? No, you just lumped me with a group of people and then posted this bullshit.

    I don't want pity. I want people to THINK! Customers about dancers [see my "its not right to splooge on folks that didn't ask to be splooged on" comments in another thread], and dancers about customers. IF we have reached a day and age when people don't have to think anymore.. well then, what can I say. Let's all run out and join PETA and throw some paint at folks wearing fur while the people all run around treating each other like shit. [again.. smiling good naturedly]
    You want people to think? You mean, you want people to agree with everything you say because if they don't then you will bore them to tears with rebuttals...pages of rebuttals about why you are right and how your experience in the real world has given you more god given powers to make decisions and choices and the right to judge another person's opinions.

    I am a dancer. I am NOT an escort. It is NOT ok for someone to splooge on me. It is NOT ok for someone to touch me in any way that I find unacceptable. And, yet, when a dancer expresses the disdain that a guy would not stop the dancer/dance and decides to blow his load...what's your response..."oh, well...that happens...suck it up." Not acceptable.

    It never ceases to amaze me that dancers keep complaining on these pages about how crappy the strip-clubs are and don't realize, as I keep trying to point out, that their attitudes as expressed on these pages are part and parcel of what makes them crappy in the first place. Change has to come from someplace and the dancers are the pivots the clubs turn on ... who better to promote the change then the dancers.
    Did you ever think that the change starts with the management? Some management LIKE drama clubs. The first club I danced at, the manager STARTED the drama...by telling some girls that the other girls were talking about them, etc. For some girls, they get sucked in. IT IS THEIR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHERE THEY WANT TO WORK!!!! But, that's not acceptable to you...you feel that you need to put your two cents in continually and tell these girls "It's all your fault...it's your attitude...blah, blah, blah".

    I don't think I can teach a damn soul here anything. First off, it would require a mind open to concepts other than their own and to say some of the minds about here are closed to any concept they don't want to hear would be an understatement of massive proportion.
    No, you cannot teach a soul here anything, not because their minds are not open...it's because your mind is closed. You refuse to accept that people are all at points in their lives...that only they can change at this moment. It's not about you. It's about them. People will make the changes that they need to and it doesn't happen over night. If you really want to make a difference in someone's life, go volunteer at a homeless shelter...a runaway kid's shelter...anywhere like that. Coming here and trying to "make" people see things your way doesn't work.

    Anyway... all my words are is some electronic grafifti on the walls around here. People are free to do what ever they want to do with them [and boy do they]. But what they can't do, if I am right about any of it, is say that no one ever suggested these very basic concepts I have outlined.
    Your first mistake was you believing that you needed to be here to convince people the "error of their ways".

    Now, I have no desire to bruise anyone's ego or turn their yogart sour [wait, yogart already is sour... well, never mind that part] and I am not the one who keeps making this stuff personal. I am not only open to other's ideas, I invite them, but all I see is mud being thrown around. Lots of heat and very little light.
    It's not about bruising egos. Its about respecting what people believe even if you do not agree with it. You don't seem to be able to do that. End of story.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Different topic.

    Since I seem to be a topic of conversation at the moment, a very short insight into "Thorn".

    I hear pompous and condescending thrown around a lot regarding my posts.

    Fine. Its wrong regarding my intent but I won't deny some people read that into it. What I am aiming for is "aloof". The question is, why would you want to do that when it makes you an obviously unsympathetic character?

    Well, the answer is simple. As I stated earlier I have been doing this for a long time and I know that it is VERY easy to take anyone's posting for such a long period, if you had a desire or need to collect them all, parse them and basically come up with enough information to walk right up to that person's door and say hello to them. This based on all the tibits of info generated, a knowledge of the use of "worms" and of enhanced databases plus a little educated guessing.


    I would hope no one would ever want to do that to me but part of what I do is to understand precisely the nature of such possiblities...blah, blah, blah... and see, I step out from behind my curtain for a moment and my slip is showing. This writing style helps me limit any possible mistakes in that regard.

    So it comes down to security over being likable, and I pick security. If I find a way to do both I will change my writing style. However, if it gives anyone the idea that I am condescending or disrespectful of their opinions I apologize.

    Now I'm going to step back behind this curtain here.

    Wishing well...
    Last edited by Thorn; 03-26-2005 at 11:53 PM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  25. #25
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Ok... I am going to try this one more time.

    Please. Please. Please. Actually read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    You basically bashed ALL of the mods. You bashed the dancers on the pink site. That includes myself.
    No, I didn't and please stop saying I did. If you insist on saying this please quote to me exactly where I did. Again, I said SOME of the moderators were bashers, SOME where fair and SOME where even encouraging. No where were any names used to identifiy who was who. The only name used at all, in any context, was Pryce's.


    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    Again, you are bashing the dancers. You were and continue to be disrespectful to the dancers who the entire pink site was made for. You may not see it that way and you may believe that you have some "right" on the pink side...but no matter what ANY dancer/mod said to you, it wasn't right, you didn't agree with it,
    [sigh] I was neither bashing or disrespectful of any dancers. I don't believe I have ANY rights on either the pink or the blue sides. The site is personal property and the only ones with any rights around here are Pryce and those he picks as his agents.

    All I did was point out and object to some people who were being considerablely rude. To which I received the response, "Yes, but this is our place to be rude." To which I responded, "Well, but the people you are being rude about are right here watching." To which I received the reply, "Well, yes they are but we don't care". To which I answered, "But these are people, and not only that, your clients and therefore your bread and butter." And I heard in rebuttle, "You aren't a dancer, you have no voice here. Shut up or go away!". To which I responded, "Ok. Your funeral."

    And, as you should have noted but haven't because your anger has blinded you to it and thus you are leading with your passions and not your intellect, I gave you just what you asked for. I have become FAR less active on the dancer side. What activity there has been is totally non- confrontational, totally passive, and without any possiblity of ruffling anyone's feathers. Not only that it is almost totally limited to those forums on the pink side you told me it was appropriate for customers to post in. The exceptions have been few and follow your criteria for said exceptions to this... where they are meant to be helpful or supportive.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    I am a dancer. I am NOT an escort. It is NOT ok for someone to splooge on me. It is NOT ok for someone to touch me in any way that I find unacceptable. And, yet, when a dancer expresses the disdain that a guy would not stop the dancer/dance and decides to blow his load...what's your response..."oh, well...that happens...suck it up." Not acceptable.
    Where did that come from? When did I ever say you were an escort? When did I ever suggest it was OK to defile a dancer in anyway, including splooging on her without consent.

    Look, you force me to make a point. Here is proof positive that you have stopped thinking and are only reacting and that you are responding to stuff you either haven't read or haven't comprehended because if it.

    THIS IS WHAT I HAD TO SAY ON THE TOPIC OF SPLOOGING!

    NOBODY SHOULD SPLOOGE ON A DANCER THAT HASN'T AGREED TO BE SPLOOGED ON. GUYS WHO DO THAT SHOULD BE REPORTED TO MANAGEMENT.

    Here is the link that backs that up: http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/sho...9&page=3&pp=15

    I said accidents can happen. But I also acknowledged that there are some twisted souls out there that get off on taking advantage of a dancer that way and they ought to be watched out for.

    Go back and read the thread and stop finding fault where there isn't any. Please.


    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    ...I am angry...
    No kidding.

    But try and understand that your emotional responses are yours and yours alone to control.

    I'm on the other side of this equation. I feel as strongly about my position as you feel about yours. I feel every bit as disrespected as you do and you can add disenfranchized to boot. I'm not angry though and I refuse to get angry over it.

    So, I would kindly request that you stop being angry and see that you got what you wanted. Take yes for an answer and win gracefully, while acknowledging that I have a right to feel I got gypped. [A guy my age ought to know better than to play poker in a house where the deck is stacked. ]

    Still wishing well...
    Last edited by Thorn; 03-27-2005 at 02:02 AM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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