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Thread: Getting dancers to work on time.

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    Default Getting dancers to work on time.

    WOW My club has a big problem with getting dancers to come in on time. We open at 7pm. Last night first dancer shows up at 7:15 then one more at 7:30pm So I try to run on 2 dancers till more come. 6 showed up at 9:30 one at 10pm. See our club is slow till late at night but there is still money to be made early not to mention we lose customers early when there is only a couple dancers. We dont fine the girls. But are considering if there late not letting them work that night. Any ideas to get them on time. We dont have a large group of house girls and what we do have are high drama girls.

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    Featured Member screaminpeachez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Fine them. Nothing says "these rules are serious" like that.
    especially for a repeat offender.

    I personally hate unpunctuality.

    I have one guess as to which girl showed up at 10
    In a smaller club you rely on the girls getting there on time.
    and it might be hard to enforce the fines if you are low on girls.

    maybe a reward for showing up early?? couple free drinks??
    dunno

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Use scheduling. The lower earning girls/new girls HAVE TO work open til whenever...if they are late, they get sent home. The higher earners/vets can come in later, but will be sent home if they are not on the floor by x time. I do not think that fining them would work. Simply because some girls would look at it like an "uppage" in house fees. Now, telling them that they cannot work...that'll get them in on time.

    You'll most likely be sending a lot of girls home for a few weeks...but after the girls realize that you're serious, they'll stop fighting it and go along with it. It may sound harsh...but, you don't have any girls on the floor anyways...so it won't change much...until the realization kicks in and *bam* 5 girls on the floor at opening.

    The nice thing is that if you start the newbies out like this, then they'll just move in smoothly. The hard part is getting the vets to go along with it without kicking and screaming.

    One more thing. YOU CANNOT PLAY FAVORITES TO ANY DANCER WHILE INSTILLING THIS NEW RULE. If you do...it will only cause more resentments...more problems, and it WILL NOT WORK. Give everyone the same rules...and they'll eventually all follow along.

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    Veteran Member Hello~Kitty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    The very best policy in my experience is to let dancers work any day of the week that they want BUT with a club set cut off time (and limited # of dancers per shift) , either the dancers are on the floor at __ time or they do not get to work that night AT ALL . Tell them to come back day/night and if they are on time then the will be more than welcome. Make it a 1 st come 1st serve situation. I suggest putting it in the clubs I.C. agreement
    This policy must be strictly enforce and no favoritism or it won't work. However if a club is one of the better in the area and alot of dancers want to work there, then they will start showing up on time( even early- gasp) and with their "game" face on
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    God/dess Susan-Va's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Have a set schedule and if they do not show up on time, fine them and or send them home.

    Every club I've worked at has had a schedule with a start and stop time for shifts. How can a club expect to function if there is no schedule for dancers? My club post a schedule every week at the club and on our website so customers know who is working when.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    I've never worked in a club with a schedule. I guess we've always had enough girls coming in, although sometimes there weren't enough girls and sometimes too much......

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    Veteran Member Hello~Kitty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    I am against fines for several reasons but the one that applies here is it creates animosity. Just not letting a dancer earn at her choice club that shift is a better "punishment", IMHO- and actually hits the pocketbook a bit harder.

    Think about it ? What hurts worse a $20 fine or missing out on $300 or more for the night?
    And when there is no fine the only person the dancer can blame is.... herself.

    Just what I have seen work best, pick and choose what you will
    Example of discrimination (Imho):

    the only prudent way to treat Islamics in the US and western europe today is along the same vein as Russians and Eastern Europeans were treated during the 'cold war' days - with some degree of suspicion warranted until proven otherwise !

    http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44590




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    Member SeXyCuTeGuRL09's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    I completely agree with NOT having a schedule, allowing girls to work whenever but at a CERTAIN time if they are not on time for the shift -even a few min- they get sent home my favorite club ever does this and its nice because I still feel I have freedom to come whenever as long as I come on time!

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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    We have 3 schedules with 3 different tip outs. Paying the cheaper tip outs usually work as insentive.... but we still have tardy girls. I used to work at clubs that just sent them away if they were late, or fined them. Sending them away works well, but only if you have enough girls otherwise to keep the customers happy.
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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Technically, if they are independent contractors you can't fine them, nor can you tell them when to work. If the club was good to work in early, then you'd have girls in early. Since it's not, and it's retarded to make girls come in and pay you in order to not make money, I would recommend that you put in incentives to get them in. If they come early, they don't have to pay house fees or whatever, or you can do what every other business on the face of the earth does and pay the employees that you schedule.
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    Use scheduling. The lower earning girls/new girls HAVE TO work open til whenever...if they are late, they get sent home. The higher earners/vets can come in later, but will be sent home if they are not on the floor by x time. I do not think that fining them would work. Simply because some girls would look at it like an "uppage" in house fees. Now, telling them that they cannot work...that'll get them in on time.
    I have seen this NOT work many times.
    The problem with sending an entertainer home,or not letting her work when she gets there is,she isnt there making the club money.
    And we all know its the vets and the prima donnas who are always the late ones.

    Its not good for the club to be open with only the "lower earning"girls working,they are usually the newbies and the less then perfect.No way should a club be open with the rotation full of the second string,you always gotta have ringers and stars mixed in,or you might as well not even be open.

    Fines are the only way to inforce rules on entertainers from what i have learned over the years.sending them home hurts the club.

    One more thing. YOU CANNOT PLAY FAVORITES TO ANY DANCER WHILE INSTILLING THIS NEW RULE. If you do...it will only cause more resentments...more problems, and it WILL NOT WORK. Give everyone the same rules...and they'll eventually all follow along.
    Amen on this.
    Treat them the same across the board.
    The rules for the stars are the same for the lower earners.

    If a low earner is 5 mins late,and a star is 5 mins late,they should both get the same fine.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    BTW.......

    In a few clubs i have worked in that did not have set scheduals,they house fee was determined by what time they got on the floor.
    Just hypo numbers here as an example..

    if they get there for the night shift at 7pm-8pm,the tipout is 100
    if they get there from 8pm-9pm the tipout is 125
    if they get there at 9pm-10pm the tipout is 150
    etc etc etc.

    I have seen this work,but the stars always come in late night when the crowds are there so its not really good for the clubs early hours.

    Maybe another idea for ya if you dont like the fines route.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Technically, if they are independent contractors you can't fine them, nor can you tell them when to work.
    Technically,"if"a frog had wings,it wouldnt bump its ass everytime it jumped.

    When the day comes where there are more legal sub contractors then not,then and only then will entertainers be able to stop fines and scheduals.
    Till then,demanding sub contractor rights will only get you fired.

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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    And until then, clubs will just have to deal with times when they'll be lacking in entertainers.

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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward
    And until then, clubs will just have to deal with times when they'll be lacking in entertainers.
    One thing the sex industry doesnt have a shortage of is quality entertainers,and a new crop of 18year olds come every year.

    From what i have seen of clubs that make money is that they often times have way to many entertainers.

    I have never seen a quality club that couldnt find enough entertainers.
    They may go thru a shortage,but it never last long,so the clubs deal with it very well.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Technically,"if"a frog had wings,it wouldnt bump its ass everytime it jumped.

    When the day comes where there are more legal sub contractors then not,then and only then will entertainers be able to stop fines and scheduals.
    Till then,demanding sub contractor rights will only get you fired.
    Gosh. It's such a good thing that you are here to explain the big wide world to us. After all, we live under rocks or in cages and have no idea whatsoever what our own work environment is like.
    Frogs don't bump their asses. That's why they have legs.
    And note the context, oh ye Defensive Man - I am not doing a naked Norma Rae here with the "What do we want? Sub contracting rights!" - the guy asked for advice I gave him advice that will both work and be legal - I know that our working rights and environment is not to important to most club owners and managers who are pretty much just interested in offloading the costs of the club to us, but but to those few who might care to run a legal operation... Incidentally there are places in which the independent contractor status is honoured - like here. If the club doesn't pay me, the club doesn't tell me when to work. If they want me there at 7:00 until 2:00 they will pay me for it, however nominally.

    And dude - the question was ABOUT a shortage of dancers in the early evening. He wanted to know how to get them to work on time without fining them. Remember?
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    In my experience, the fining system isn't terribly effective for getting girls to work on time. Let's say your "late fee" is, I dunno, 25 bucks. I've worked in clubs like that. AND....instead of showing up at 7, the girl just shows up at 9 or whenever, figuring 25 bucks is worth her 2 hours of time. It's pointless, basically. One thing i did see that worked quite well, at a club i worked at briefly in Tampa: Dayshift started at noon. The first 10 girls in the door, dressed, full makeup, ready to go onstage by exactly 12 (or earlier, obviously), paid no house fee. If you were girl #11....tough titty. It was fairly entertaining watching girls 6-10 come charging across the parking lot, vault through the club, and make a mad dash for the dressing room. It was an incentive, not a punishment...so perhaps that's another reason it worked. Oh, and running in at 1158 in your sweats didn't count.

    Any club I have worked in without schedules was a nightmare. Sun-Wednesday, no girls. Thurs-Saturday, packed. Many clubs have a minimum shift requirement to the effect of "you must work one of these days to get a weekend". That works, as long as management holds up their end of it. And yeah, I'm all about anything that is enforced being enforced across the board. I don't care who Miss Thing is currently blowing, if she shows up 3 hours late...she should be fined or sent home or whatever the consequence is, just like anyone else. Few things are worse for club morale, particularly when it's 1 or 2 superstars who do it every night. Meanwhile, the girl who consistently shows up on time 4 days a week, who happened to be late today and got fined for it, is pissed. And rightly so. I know, I know...in a perfect world, etc.

    There will always be opposing opinions about how a club should be run, what an IC should have to do, what's "legal", etc. And i agree with some points, and not with others. I just don't understand why so many girls can't treat it like a job. Benefits, paid employee, whatever....it is still a job. I'm technically an IC, too. I don't get paid by the club. But i'll guarantee ya if i walked in tomorrow 45 minutes late for my shift and tried to tell my GM I overslept, and I'd need a little while....maybe I'll be ready to DJ in about an hour......I'd be out of a job with a quickness. I guess to me what it comes down to is, would I like everyone to be a paid employee? Sure, because a lot of this nonsense would just HAVE to stop. But I highly doubt it will ever happen. If a club is paying you, and you don't show up, or call out on Tuesday because hey it might suck tonight, Bang. You're gone. And then we're left with someone opening a club with the lax attitude again, just to get the girls. If a club is paying you, there would a be so many more rules. And quite frankly, while a lot of girls (and dj's/bouncers/housemoms as well) complain about the status quo, the alternative isn't all that attractive either. It's one of those "chicken or the egg?" type debates that I don't think will ever be fully resolved. With the current rise of all the chain clubs, though...we might get a taste of it sooner than later. Eh, I'm rambling now. It's been a long, long day.
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    Senior Member EXDancer J.D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Jenny is so right on this one. While Big Green speaks the truth and the way the real world works - LEGALLY - it is a very very dangerous thing for a club to fine. I would say stupid to start the practice now.

    What can happen is this - one girl can sue and use this information to prove that the dancers are actually employees and force the club to have to pay back wages and taxes on every single dancer back a certain amount of time. When this happens, the club goes bankrupt most likely.

    That said, it is finding a way to achieve the same results within the letter of the law. Different house fees for different schedules. Same results, but totally different in a legal sense.

    When I work with clubs to help with their efficiency issues and to help them increase productivity, this is the first thing I do. In my opinion, fines and schedules are like playing russian roulette. All it takes is one dancer getting hurt on the job, finding a personal injury attorney, then deciding to sue - that opens workers comp claims, back wages, IRS problems - a real nightmare -FOR WHAT? in my opinion, it is a power trip that club owners and managers have and severely attacks the work environment.

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    Featured Member screaminpeachez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    the problem is with any small club if you don't have the girls in early, then the money isn't there early, then the girls won't come in early.
    maybe if you moved the hours to 7 open (bar specials), 8 girls start dancing.
    then the money will be there when the girls show up.
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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by EXDancer J.D.
    What can happen is this - one girl can sue and use this information to prove that the dancers are actually employees and force the club to have to pay back wages and taxes on every single dancer back a certain amount of time. When this happens, the club goes bankrupt most likely.
    I disagree. What are the odds that the entertainer will be able to PROVE that she paid any money in fines? Does management give a receipt every time? Or, does it become her word against theirs? Then, after all of that...she won't have dancers suing with her or being witnesses for her because they'll all get black balled. Not just from that club but from every other club.

    I say fine them. If they can't follow the rules, and the consequence is a fine...then the club is not out of line. If the rules are being to work on time or getting sent home, then the club is not out of line for enforcing that rule.

    While the dancer can bitch, moan, and groan and complain about "lost wages" etc. She has no legs to stand on. The club can claim "lost wages" being that she cannot be to work on time...and they lose money by her not being there.

    If the club is shaking the dancers down...then MAYBE they'll get in "trouble". However, if it is in writing that certain actions will bring about certain consequences...there is nothing that the dancers can do. Period. If you are late to work, at any other job, your pay gets docked. Why should it be any different for dancers?

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Be aware that whatever "punishment" or incentive you come up with has to be palatable for even those with a good excuse. the dancer who runs out of gas and is 15/45 minutes late is as much of a problem as one who just is tardy because she was talking on the phone in the parking lot.

    Also be aware that a high enough fine could be enough to convince a dancer who ran out of gas to say, I won't go at all. The idea which helps everyone is to provide an incentive to customers to show up early like a free door fee or half price first drink coupon for the first 20 customers before 7:30.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    I like the first x number of dancers on the floor ready to work get free house.

    That would make me be there early.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    If the club is shaking the dancers down...then MAYBE they'll get in "trouble". However, if it is in writing that certain actions will bring about certain consequences...there is nothing that the dancers can do. Period. If you are late to work, at any other job, your pay gets docked. Why should it be any different for dancers?
    Because they are not docking your pay. They don't pay you. Anyway, back to the issue, which is ways of encouraging girls to be at work without fines. The first ten girls in thing works pretty well - that's how they did it when I was in Montana and there were always at least 10 girls on time.
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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    At the same time, there are very few places of business where you can just waltz in any old time that you like and keep your job. Contractor or not. If the place has rules, then you must abide by them or find another place of employment/contracts. It's that simple.

    I hated going into work early...it sucked...very dead...but I wasn't about to shell out $120 for the "honor" of starting work at 10pm. My house fee was $20...so there is a lot of incentive for going in early. However, in this case...it doesn't seem like that would work...but the scheduling of girls (newbies, etc) and the first x # in the door would be a nice incentive.

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    Senior Member EXDancer J.D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting dancers to work on time.

    [QUOTE=VenusGoddess]I disagree. What are the odds that the entertainer will be able to PROVE that she paid any money in fines? Does management give a receipt every time? Or, does it become her word against theirs? Then, after all of that...she won't have dancers suing with her or being witnesses for her because they'll all get black balled. Not just from that club but from every other club./QUOTE]

    Actually, about all that is necessary is one audio tape or video tape. Does this happen much? No, but why should a club take the chance when they can essentially "fine" the late girls by making a step structured fee schedule. It is the exact same thing with legal protection.

    If a dancer has a good lawyer, it would never have to come down to her word against the clubs. It would be easy to prove. Happened in California, could happen many other places.

    I personally think that clubs can structure everything in a way where they offer incentives instead of punishment while protecting themselves against liability and possibly help the dancers to develop better work habits.

    Also, in the cases I have heard off, it is usually an injured or disgruntled dancer who has discussed this tactic. Most times the situation can be worked out with the club, but if the girl has no intention of dancing again, then the threat of blackballing is not applicable.

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