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Thread: How many people will this judge kill?

  1. #1
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default How many people will this judge kill?

    http://nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health...rtner=homepage
    federal judge in Utah today struck down the federal government's ban on the dietary supplement ephedra, which was pulled from the market last year after it was linked to more than 100 deaths.

    The judge, Tena Campbell of the United States District Court in Salt Lake City, said that ephedra was a dietary supplement and that under rules of the Food and Drug Administration it was the government's burden to prove whether the supplement was harmful if taken in dosages recommended by the manufacturer. In this case, the judge said, the government had failed to do so.

    Supplements that included ephedra have widely been used for weight loss and bodybuilding, but have been linked to 155 deaths, including that of Steve Bechler, a 23-year-old pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles, in 2003.

    The F.D.A. ordered ephedra taken off the market in April 2004. The Nutraceutical Corporation, a Utah company that manufactured the supplement, sued to overturn the ban.

    In a ruling dated Wednesday, the judge ordered the matter sent back to the F.D.A. "for further rulemaking consistent with the court's opinion" and said the agency must lift the ban on sales of ephedra until further review.

    Judge Campbell said the F.D.A., in its review of the matter, had not provided research showing whether ephedra was harmful if taken at dosages of 10 milligrams per day of ephedra alkaloids recommended by Nutraceutical in its packaging.

    In his 19-page ruling, Judge Campbell said that the government had determined that "a dietary supplement shall be deemed a food," and that under those rules governing the safety of food "the government must produce the preponderance of the evidence as to the harmful effects from the dietary supplement when used as recommended and suggested in the labeling."

    "The F.D.A. must prove that any dose amount, no matter how small, presents a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury," the judge said. "The proper focus here is on the evidence the F.D.A. presented regarding the risks of low-dose" ephedra supplements.

    An F.D.A. spokeswoman, Kimberly Rawlings, told news agencies that the F.D.A. was reviewing the decision.

    The president of Nutraceutical, Bruce Hough, said in a statement that "the court's ruling clarifies the steps F.D.A. must take to comply with the law in its regulation of dietary supplements."
    Sounds to me like you can sell heroin over the counter as a food supplement if you recommend a small enough dose.

  2. #2
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    In fairness, ephedra a.k.a. Ma-Huang has been used for thousands of years without any record of widespread deaths. It's also very possible for persons to poison/kill themselves by taking an obvious overdose of any number of legal substances, from cough syrup to acetominophen to water ( check out )

    While I'll grant you that ephedra was linked to the 155 deaths, I would also make the argument that the link was tenuous, and that the possibility of massive overdoses or the simultaneous use of other 'drugs' also exists. Personally, I did not feel that the total ban on ephedra was justified, and apparently neither did this judge.

  3. #3
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    This could ironically put a dent in meth abuse if people figured out there was a cheaper cleaner pep pill they could pick up legally at GNC. Buyer beware.

  4. #4
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    I have no knowledge of ephedra, nor do I care about the particular substance. But the rigid insistence on the standard reflected in the quote ""The F.D.A. must prove that any dose amount, no matter how small, presents a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury," the judge said. " presents an almost insurmountable bar to the FDA, especially against a vague standard of "unreasonable risk".

    In toxicology dosage is everything. A small enough dosage of pure arsenic is harmless. (People in Albuquerque and thousands of other towns are drinking it from the tap, supplied by the city.)

    Almost nothing is dangerous "no matter how small". Rat Feces is not dangerous "no matter how small" so any supplement can have rat feces if the dosage reccommendation on the bottle is small enough?

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    The problem with ephedra is the people who take it. MOST of the society thinks that you can just go buy a bottle and take it forever. They do NOT read the directions...they do not get a check-up...they just take it.

    The biggest cause of the ephedra deaths was taking TOO much of the drug or taking it for longer than what the label said. People's bodies get used to the "up" of the drug and start adjusting. You are not supposed to take ephedra for more than 30 days without a 2 week break from it. It keeps the body from getting used to it. However, the majority of people who died from this drug (not all, but most) used it the wrong way. They took it for months without stop and just kept upping the dosage (I don't feel anything with the 2 pills a day, so I'll take 4, 6, 8, 10, 12). I know someone who took almost 12 pills a day and finally suffered a heart attack at 28 years old.

    It's not the drug that is the problem. It's the refusal to get a physical by a doctor, to take the pills as DESCRIBED on the bottle and for the length of time on the bottle. As soon as people stop being dense and stupid, then we'll all be able to have free access to this stuff. Mind you, I also believe that stupid is as stupid does...the government should not have say in what I want to put into my body.

    Geesh.

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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    I dunno...
    I got a problem with ephedra being sold over the counter.

    Its the main ingrediant for this new kinda drug,not even really sure what its called.
    It is made from ephedra,sudifed,and shit you can get off the shelf at walmart.
    They mix it all up,toss it in the microwave for a few mins,presto,homemade bathtub crank.
    Its terrible stuff and i have seen the results on people who snort it.

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    Featured Member Muyaha's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    I agreed with Venus, but another issue is if any of these 151 people whose death is linked to ephedra, was there any other drug taken or medcial issue in conjunction to this supplement.

    Ephedra the supplement is not used in making crank/met/ice or whatever you want to call it. You are thinking of a like synethic drug ephedrine or pseudoephedrine... which is a completely different chemical makeup than Ephedra, which is in sudafed and other OTC meds.

    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them.

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek
    Sounds to me like you can sell heroin over the counter as a food supplement if you recommend a small enough dose.
    But for the fact that heroin has been listed on the Schedule of prohibited drugs, you might be right. And if ephedra is considered an equally severe problem, the government retains the right to pursue that method of dealing with the problem. However, barring that, all the Federal Judge has said is that if the FDA is going to make a change, it must do so through its established rulemaking authority - not by administrative fiat. Their rules - only fair that they be made to follow them, right?
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    Tons of people took ephedra. A very small percentage of them died, and the cases I saw were all people who had taken way, WAY more than the recommended dose. Tylenol can kill you if you take enough of it, and we have no problem selling it over the counter. When you have people desperate to lose weight they will take drastic measures, ignore directions and warnings and common sense, and can seriously harm and kill themselves. Ephedra isn't psychotropic or habit forming, and statistically isn't dangerous. I'm ok with it being sold OTC, though since it can raise heart rate I would be ok with it's purchase being restricted to 18 and older, though of course kids with eating disorders who are really determined will probably still get their hands on it. But they'd find something else anyway if ephedra products weren't available.

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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    The problem with ephedra is the people who take it.
    Agreed in full.
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    Member NuttinbutLegs's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    I think it's funny- what, there's been 151 reported deaths from taking ephedra? How many deaths have been caused from smoking related cancer? It's just a slower death, but unfortunately, people even die from second hand smoke, at least ephedra doesn't do harm to anyone but the person taking it- if it even really harms most of them.

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    Veteran Member devilsadvocate667's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many people will this judge kill?

    Typical conservative activist judge!

    Yes, Pat Robertson was right. Activist judges like this are a great threat to America!


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