Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: crunches, weights and cardio

  1. #1
    Member dirtynarcosis's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    crunches, weights and cardio

    So, I posted earlier that my job told me to drop a few lbs, and in two weeks I've been @ the gym 5x/wk, but I just do 35-45 min of cardio, then a random amount of crunches onb the stability ball in my living room while watching TV. I find that after doing all that cardio (I eliptic hard), I am VERY sweaty and I don't want to be all gross and sweaty on the machines (even with a towel down, cause I sweat everywhere and through everything). So, I guess basically my question is can you do weights before cardio? And I also heard that there is no point in doing millions of crunches if you are already fat around your middle. Does this mean I am wasting time doing them until I lose this extra 10 lbs? Just curious. And I bought Tonalin today and am gonna start taking it tomorrow w/ breakfast. Can't wait!
    To be popular, one must be a mediocrity - Oscar Wilde




  2. #2
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    It's better to do weights before cardio.

    The fat around your middle responds to a completely clean diet (cut the excess carbs, fats, sugars) and up the cardio intensity, and then do the crunches. Tonalin will help...but it's only one step.

    Building more muscle mass will also aid you in losing fat. Weight train hard, do high intensity (not impact) cardio...clean up your diet and the fat will practically melt off (may take a few weeks, but it will happen).

  3. #3
    Member dirtynarcosis's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Clean diet meaning only lean meats and veggies? I've already cut out sodas and fast food and have seen a difference, but I eat a lot of sandwiches and cereal and stuff like that. Pasta, rice, etc. Do you have to give up processed carbs and sugars completely for a flat belly?
    To be popular, one must be a mediocrity - Oscar Wilde




  4. #4
    Veteran Member ChocolateKiss's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Processed carbs are the number one enemy against a flat stomach, the second enemy is alcohol. To have a flat stomach you NEED to cut out processed carbs and sugar. You should get your carbs from whole grains, veggies, and fruits.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Concubine's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    402
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Okay, this actually gets me thinking a little. The only carbs I allow myself to eat is bananas, granola and whole wheat pitas. Are the whole wheat pitas considered a processed carb? I also allow myself to eat cheese, I love cheese. Should I be cutting out the cheese and pitas?

    Sorry I can't help you out DirtyNarcosis, I need help myself. lol

  6. #6
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Great info so far girls...

    WHOLEGRAINS should be the focus: Oats, brown rice, yams/sweet potatoes, millet, quinoa and other such wholegrains.

    FRUIT keep to a minimum (about 2-3 serves a day) and focus on apples, pears and LOTS of berries!! Avoid tropical fruits as they are higher in sugar.

    Dairy is also best kept to a minimum. Low fat, plain yoghurt with 'active' cultures is your best bet.

    Here is a good sample shopping list:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stella9a.htm

    If you can afford it organic is always best for meat, dairy as well as produce!

    Abs are like any other muscle group, they grow when they are at rest. No need to train them directly more then 2-3 times a week. If your form is correct when you are lifting then they should be getting a workout there also.

  7. #7
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    P.S Weights should be done BEFORE cardio (IE: Treadmill warm up 5 mins... weights 30-45 mins then cardio)

    If you have the time an even better option is to do your cardio first thing in the morning (3-5 days a week) and then go back in the afternoon to lift (45 mins 3-4 times a week).

    Be sure to rest well and do not over train! Start off slow and work up....

  8. #8
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtynarcosis
    Clean diet meaning only lean meats and veggies? I've already cut out sodas and fast food and have seen a difference, but I eat a lot of sandwiches and cereal and stuff like that. Pasta, rice, etc. Do you have to give up processed carbs and sugars completely for a flat belly?
    You're off to a good start, however, pasta, cereal, rice are all carbs. You do not have to give them up totally, but you will need to cut them more. Carbs are more fillers than anything, so cut your carbs and up your water at meal time.

    Processed sugars (white) and carbs (white flour/rice) are never a good idea. If you are going to eat bread/pasta/rice, you are better off going with products that use whole ground wheat. Don't eat anything white. Cereals, you should stay with are the bran cereals.

  9. #9
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Good points as always Miss V.G

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Sorry to drop in to a female-oriented thread, but why is it better to do weights before cardio? I always do it the other way, and think of myself as a pretty aware guy when it comes to proper training regimens, but it sounds like you guys know what you're talking about.

    What's the value of weights first?
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  11. #11
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    263
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I'm also curious about why you should do weights first? I'm a certified personal trainer and have always been told to do the opposite. But some of you are looking so good maybe you know something that I don't.

  12. #12
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I am a certified personal training too Laya, who are you certified through?

    If you do the weights first it ensures you have enough energy to go to your max, and keep great form (so you won't run the risk of injury!!!!)

    If you do 40 mins of cardio first and then hit the weights you are not going to have as much energy and focus. You won't be able to lift your heaviest and you may run the risk of injury if you tire yourself out before lifting.

    Also as a side note it is best not to have your muscles too limber before lifting, once again risk of injury is increased and it is counter productive of what you are trying to do. Another reason why long cardio sessions and stretching sessions are best for AFTER weight training.

    My $0.02 but at the end of the day you have to do what works for you!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Thanks, Krys. Could you elaborate on why you don't want your muscles too limber before lifting? How is that counter productive?

    For me, I'm never really lifting to my max and I like to push myself hard on the cardio side of things. So it sounds like my ordering of things may make sense, but your information will be good to keep in mind as I get older and start focusing more on weight training to retain muscle mass.
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  14. #14
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I am sure you can still go hard on the cardio side of things after a weights session.... why the emphasis on cardio Lurker?

    Basically when you lift you are contracting and shortening the muscles (predominently). You need to be able to maintain muscle stability in the joints to prevent injury when lifting weights. If your warm up TOO much you do not have as much stability because the muscles will be alot looser and more relaxed. (Injury zone!)

    When you lift your muscles tense up.... why stretch before hand only to tense up when you can stretch after to release the muscles AFTER they have done their work.

  15. #15
    Member
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    To expand on Krys's answer, by doing weights first, you use your short term glycogen stores for energy while lifting weights (in other words, you're burning carbs), then when you do your cardio, you're immediately burning fat for energy because the weight lifting has already burned the carbs. If your goal is to lose fat and tone up, it's much more efficient to do the weights first.

  16. #16
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky
    To expand on Krys's answer, by doing weights first, you use your short term glycogen stores for energy while lifting weights (in other words, you're burning carbs), then when you do your cardio, you're immediately burning fat for energy because the weight lifting has already burned the carbs. If your goal is to lose fat and tone up, it's much more efficient to do the weights first.
    oh oh another excellent point!!!

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Thanks both of you. Very interesting.

    I do things in basically the least efficient manner--long, hard cardio then sub-max weights. Plus I eat like a pig...As a result, I probably look as bad as you can for someone who works out 5+ hours a week!

    Krys--Just force of habit. In college I was a rower and I usually row or run for my cardio now. When I do one of those two things, I'm still measuring myself against my collegiate performances. So I don't like to handicap that performance by tiring out the muscles beforehand.
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  18. #18
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    263
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I'm certified through NCSF and ACE. I never stop learning though and the information here is great. Has given me lots to research and maybe even re-evaluate some of my thoughts. Personally I get too tired after weights to do my cardio effeciently. Thanks for the insights

  19. #19
    Featured Member krys's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    www.bodybuilding.com has lots of great articles.....

  20. #20
    God/dess
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,210
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    High gi carbs in general should be avoided except before, during, and after exercise. You can eat even healthy things and end up pretty jiggly.


    Millions of crunches are pointless. Basically if you can do more than 10 reps for the exercise, it is too easy as a form of resistence training. For your abs, do heavy compounds and lift things overhead. They spend 99% of their time stablizing your spine from bending backwards, not curling you forward. When you start military pressing your own bodyweight and doing twice that in squats and deadlifts , you will have some pretty big ab muscles. Whether or not you will see them clearly will be the result of proper dieting to cause a low bodyfat percentage. Notice the cleverly disguised exercise recommendations. For one not so disguised, do overhead squats for 3 months, check abs.

    If you have a serious jones for doing direct ab work, try janda situps and Use resistance at a similar rate as you would with most other muscles, 4-10 reps, depending on what seems to work best for you. As a warning remember, if you hypertrophy your abs but have a good amount of fat covering, it will just make your stomach look bigger. This is particular true in the case of the obliques. Growing your obliques through serious direct work(and not so direct work) will just make your waistline bigger.
    The above can be countered by doing Sh0t's second favorite exercise to do while in the shower, . Doing vacs without growing your abs is a great weight to dramatically shrink your waistline.


    If anything lifting weights first is a good way to avoid injury. Lifting while weak and depleted is a pretty common cause for injury.

    The glyocogen depletion issue is more complicated and can be delt with simply by ingesting carbs(and protein) during the cardio and weight training(see Ivy's recent work). In does create sort of a red queen battle however, as the more you do the above, the less fat you may end up burning during the exercise*.

    I would never suggest doing cardio after or before BODYBUILDING-style weight training, if the goal is building muscle(building strength is something different entirely). Doing a lot of long duration cardio after lifting is a great way to stay catabolic for a long time and burn up muscle along with the fat people think they are burning while doing cardio. Fat loss will come just with proper diet, exercise and unforunately, time. Speedy weight loss usually means water and muscle loss, not fat. One pound of fat per week is about the safest most can hope for.

    We cannot choose so easily what our body uses for energy, and chances are if you do long duration cardio after lifting, you will be using muscle protein for energy and not fat stores. After about 45 minutes of weight lifting and then tack on the cardio, the hormone levels switch: test drops, cortisol rises, making fat STORAGE even more likely than if you hadn't done the extra exercise at all. The reason people lose fat(or more specifically weight) from doing workouts like the above is due to the overall caloric deficit they probably impose on themsleves for the day, not necessarily because of the timing of their cardio. At best, you will burn fat along with burning muscle, which will show up as a weight loss for sure, but the scale isn't the best indicator of bodyfat percentage.

    If you are going to the gym 5 times a week, use a 3-day split for weight lifting, the other 2 for cardio OR use 2 fullbody routines for lifting along with 3 days of cardio.


    Rowers usually have sexy backs. I spent my time in Zodiak boats instead(motors )

    Being tired is usually good for effective cardio, especially if one wants to learn to run through the pain of effort and tiredness. I'm not sure what efficient cardio would be outside of mechanical things like running with proper form and such. Endurance athletes who also weight lift strenuously(bodybuilding style) are kind of fighting a battle within themselves as the body tries to figure out whether or not to change muscle fibers from type I to II and back again, and so forth.

    *This point is also way I try not to focus on the fat burned DURING the exercise and instead focus on the all-day metabolic effect of the exercise. When one factors this in and looks atthe bigger picture, long duration, lower intensity cardio is shown to be quite less effective than other options, which is why i always recommend people do wind-sprints and/or Max-ot cardio. The idea of burning fat during the exercise duration itself for lowering bodyfat percentage is a bit myopic.
    You can't love something you think is flawless - me


  21. #21
    God/dess
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Temporary Lurkmode...
    Posts
    12,609
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 79 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I do my cardio before wieghts all the time now.
    I only do 20min on my wieghts days and then 30min on my off days.
    I feel so much better and warmed up after that 20min of cardio.

    Maybe Ive doing this all wrong...but when I do my wieghts 1st Im so tired I dont want to do my cardio and I end up going home.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



  22. #22
    God/dess A_Guy's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    2,188
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk
    I do my cardio before wieghts all the time now.
    I only do 20min on my wieghts days and then 30min on my off days.
    I feel so much better and warmed up after that 20min of cardio.

    Maybe Ive doing this all wrong...but when I do my wieghts 1st Im so tired I dont want to do my cardio and I end up going home.
    ^ Agreed. I typically hit the cardio hard before hand, and then follow it up with some weights. I'm not a personnal trainer, so maybe Krys has the better advice. However like Tiger said, I feel much better and warmed up after a good cardio session. I just seem to be able to go a little further on the weights.

    Plus, after I leave the gym with both a good cardio and weight session, I'm flying high as a kite . Gotta love those endorphins!!

  23. #23
    Veteran Member ChocolateKiss's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    I have always been told that it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to lose fat/weight do cardio first, this way you can put most of your energy into cardio. If your goal is to build muscle you should lift weights first and then do cardio, that way you can put most of your energy into weightlifting. But if you are a serious athlete and train pretty hard for optimum results you should split your cardio and weightlifting. For example a lot of bodybuilders work out seven days a week and they concentrate on weights four out of the seven days, and cardio three of the seven days. I think it just depends on your body, and your personal goals

  24. #24
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    ^ Nah...new studies have shown that you burn more carbs/fats if you weight lift before doing cardio. In the end, the primary goal is to build more lean muscle mass. Even if you are not "competition" training, the more LMM you have, the more effectively your body will burn fat/carbs during exercise and through everyday activities.

    The other important point is being "too" flexible before weight lifting. If you have "limbered" up before you do weights, you extend your range of motion...the bad thing about that is with an extended range of motion, you increase your chances of injuring your muscles/joints. What wouldn't feel "ok" weightlifting "cold" would feel ok lifting "warm". You want to feel the "stop here" pull when you are weight lifting...if you limber up, you take that feeling away, enabling you to open more and thus create an injury. I hope I explained that right...sometimes it sounds better in my head than it does once I type it.

    Of course, it all comes down to one thing...every body is different and you have to do what feels best for your body. One more thing that a lot of people do wrong in cardio is this: They go full-tilt boogie for the entire cardio session. One, that's very draining...two, it puts you into the "burning muscle" mode...three, you work so hard at the cardio for so long that you begin to breathe more shallow. You need to focus on doing interval cardio for the most effective fat-burning workout. Your cardio should never be "so hard" that you cannot keep breathing deeply...oxygen breaks down the fats that you need to get rid of...breathing shallow through your workout slows the break-down process and thus will take longer to lose that fat. So, keeping your breathing deep...go at a medium work-out level for a few minutes and then bring the intensity down for a few minutes, then make the intensity a little harder, then drop the intensity, raise it up, lower it, back up...for the entire time until the last few minutes of your cardio session which should be used to cool down completely. Your body will not get used to the intervals, but it will get used to the consistant high intensity.

    The interval cardio may help those of you who have "trouble" doing cardio after weights.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to VenusGoddess For This Useful Post:


  26. #25
    Veteran Member ChocolateKiss's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: crunches, weights and cardio

    ^ That makes a lot of sense Venus. I have recently switched to doing my weights before cardio, and I like it better this way because I am trying to build more muscle. I have heard so many different opinions on what to do first as far as cardio and weights go. But for people who have just started working out--they probably don't have much endurance, so it would seem like after doing weights a lot of them would be too fatigued to get a good cardio workout in, and therefore they would only do have of the time, or go at half of the pace that is recommended to burn fat, therefore they wouldn't be getting their optimum weightloss results, and they would probably end up with muscle covered in fat.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Weights first, then cardio?
    By Sunshine73 in forum Body Business
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-28-2007, 07:46 PM
  2. ? about crunches
    By colleen in forum Body Business
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-27-2007, 12:43 AM
  3. Besides crunches
    By usmcjess in forum Body Business
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-02-2005, 12:12 PM
  4. Workout Order-Cardio vs Weights
    By Katrine in forum Body Business
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-22-2005, 12:08 AM
  5. Crunches
    By Andieb in forum Body Business
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-23-2004, 03:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •