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Thread: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

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    Veteran Member Lovespell's Avatar
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    Default Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    I would really appreciate any help I can get on the whole tax issue. I don't mind paying taxes, but I have no idea on HOW you go about it when your a dancer. A lot of the dancers at my club don't pay taxes, because we are told the club shreds everything, and there is no evidence of us working there. I don't know if I believe that.... I'd rather just pay, instead of risk getting slammed later in life.

    I just need a Paying Taxes for Dummies course. Honestly, I know nothing about it. I tried doing a search, but didn't come up with everything I need for info.

    One girl at my club filed taxes, and said she got money back because she proved that with driving costs, ect she LOST money working at the club. She didn't, but still. Since we are independant contractors, and deal with cash, how does the gov know what we are and aren't making? How much do you record for taxes?

    I've only filed taxes once. It was simple as pie. My job (I worked retail) mailed me my W-2, and my friend did it all online for me. And then a few days later they deposited money into my back account!

    But I assume, now I'll be paying taxes in? Instead of getting money back.

    So please, I apologize for sounding so stupid, but I'm young and naive, and want to learn all about this, so I can cover my ass. But if I can cut a few corners, any tips would be appreicated, also.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    there are a few threads about this in Dollar Den. Instead of your employer withholding for you, you are supposed to do it on your own every quarter. April 15th was the due date for the first quarter. The for you want to look at is 1040-ES.

    www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf will tell you how to do it too

    as for your friend getting money back money because of costs of communting, she's in for a surprise if she ever gets audited. You can't deduct driving costs for your commute to and from work...and you want to be veeeery careful taking risky deductions when you are not being totally honest. When the IRS sees big deductions, that's a red flag for an audit.

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    Veteran Member Lovespell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Thanks for the info Emily.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    I strongly agree with the be less agressive on deductions thing, a lot of people think because they took a certain deduction and nothing happened that it was OK, it does not mean that, it just means you didn't get audited. Sort of like if you drive 90 on the freeway just because you didn't get a ticket, it does not mean that the speed limit is now 90.

    Another angle to this is that your business must show some profit, maybe only a few thousand but it must show a profit 3 out of 5 years, if it doesn't the IRS considers it a hobby. this is to prevent every guy with a garge full of his favorite tools but who only works on his own cars to claim he is a mechanic or whatever and then writing off his "investment"

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Hi Lovespell. A past thread which would be a good starting point for you might be

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    phonehome, the hobby rule only means you risk getting pulled for audit if you show a continual loss. However, in that audit, if you can prove that it isn't a hobby, you should be ok. Case in point, artists. I have a ton of artist clients that go years with losses. In mmy 15 years of working with them I have had one audit where the agent said the loss should be disallowed due to it being a hobby. I then showed her proof that the artist has exhibits and shows worldwide and she reversed her opinion.





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    Veteran Member Lovespell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    So I have to file taxes every quarter, not just once a year? When are the quarters? What if the next quarter comes and I have no money saved? Right now I'm trying to play catch up on bills, and all money is going to that, not saving. I will start saving once immediate bills are payed off, but can't right now.

    Also, how do you keep track of your income, if your solely dancing. Can I just write it on the calender each night how much I bring home in tips, plus save my reciept from the club that shows how much I payed for house fees as a deduction? Is this enough "proof" for an accountant when it comes time to do my taxes?

    I'm really sorry for all the stupid questions, but I really am lost on this subject.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    The first estimated tax payment this year was due on April 15th, for taxes due on income earned between Jan 1 and March 31. The next estimated tax payment is due June 15th, for taxes due on income earned between April 1 and June 30th. The third estimated tax payment is due on Sep 15th, for taxes due on income earned between July 1 and Sep 30th. The last estimated tax payment is due on Jan 15th 2006, for taxes due on income earned between October 1 and December 31st.

    there's a general discussion at

    basically, not paying estimated taxes on time every quarter results in the IRS charging you interest (effectively if you don't pay on time the IRS loans you the money and whacks you a healthy interest rate for the privelege). On top of the interest, the IRS also assesses a 'punitive' penalty charge. In effect, if you are paying other bills with estimated tax money it isn't much different than paying bills with a credit card.

    The easiest way to keep track of dancing income and expenses is to simply buy a $2.00 'steno pad' where every page has a vertical line down the middle. For every night you work, on the left side write down how much you earned, and on the right side write down everything you paid out (i.e. tipouts, costumes or shoes purchased etc.).

    Everything is laid out in IRS Publication 505 -->

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Why can't the commute be deducted if you are a subcontractor and NOT an employee of the club? My accountant has used the IRS recommended daily stipend for each city I work in INCLUDING Austin. Is this wrong, since the club doesn't pay me a red cent?

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Employee or independent contractor, the 'basic' trip from home to 'work' and from 'work' back home again is non-deductible. If you move between 'work' locations, the mileage in between IS deductible but not the trips to and from your home. If you work out of town such that you have hotel receipts for overnight stays, then all of the out of town trip mileage is deductible as is the daily 'stipend' for food. These tax facts are equally true for dancers as for persons in any other line of business.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    My CPA deducts my mileage. The way the commute thing was explained to me is since I don't go to one place every day but all different places and am not an employee but a contractor I can deduct the mileage. I would think a dancer could so the same thing but I'm not a CPA. Maybe it's because I work all over and not in one place.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    I think that your C.P.A. is basicaly just betting/hopeing that you won't be audited. Remember just because you file and "nothing happens" doesn't mean that it was OK it just means you were not caught. Think about it this way, if you drive 100 MPH on the freeway and don't get a ticket that does not mean that the speed limit is now 100 MPH.

    As Melonie stated and the tax code is very clear on this, trips that start at or end at home are not deductable. it does not matter if you are an employee that works five different part time jobs, one for every day of the week or an independent contractor a dnacer in this case working at five different clubs.

    The only times (so far) that a trip starting or ending at home would be deductable is if it is a trip "out of town" the general rule of thumb that divides one of these from one that is just a long commute is that you stay overnight and have receipts for lodging and meals.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovespell
    I would really appreciate any help I can get on the whole tax issue. I don't mind paying taxes, but I have no idea on HOW you go about it when your a dancer. A lot of the dancers at my club don't pay taxes, because we are told the club shreds everything, and there is no evidence of us working there. I don't know if I believe that.... I'd rather just pay, instead of risk getting slammed later in life.

    I just need a Paying Taxes for Dummies course. Honestly, I know nothing about it. I tried doing a search, but didn't come up with everything I need for info.

    One girl at my club filed taxes, and said she got money back because she proved that with driving costs, ect she LOST money working at the club. She didn't, but still. Since we are independant contractors, and deal with cash, how does the gov know what we are and aren't making? How much do you record for taxes?

    I've only filed taxes once. It was simple as pie. My job (I worked retail) mailed me my W-2, and my friend did it all online for me. And then a few days later they deposited money into my back account!

    But I assume, now I'll be paying taxes in? Instead of getting money back.

    So please, I apologize for sounding so stupid, but I'm young and naive, and want to learn all about this, so I can cover my ass. But if I can cut a few corners, any tips would be appreicated, also.
    If they don't even send you a 1099 form, then you'll have to really keep track of your expenses and income. Basically, all money you receive from dancing is income. I recommend just using TurboTax to figure up your tax liability.

    There's a five or seven year statute of limitations for the IRS to mail you a deficiency notice (if they think you underpaid your taxes). But the statute of limitations starts to run when you file your return -- if you never file a return, they can come after you at any time!

    Being an independent contractor is a mixed bag. On one hand, your employer doesn't withhold any FICA (Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid) taxes, but you are responsible for paying an extra 15.2% self-employment tax (on top of your regular tax rate). On the other hand, you get to deduct a lot of things that employees (people not independent contractors) do not get to deduct. Basically, any expense that is necessary to your trade/profession (necessary means helpful) and which will be used up within the tax year can be deducted under 26 USC 62(a)(1). If you don't use it up within a year (breast implants?) then you have to amortize the expense, meaning that you can deduct a certain portion of it over a number of years.

    So save receipts for everything. By the way, keep track of all of the miles you drive in a work-related context -- at the end of the year, you will get a deduction for $0.405 for each mile driven. This is supposed to reimburse you for gas, insurance, depreciation of your car, etc, but most people don't lose that much operating their cars, so it's a great way to come out ahead and it's completely legitimate.

    To be clear, if you're an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, the fact that your trip starts or ends at home is irrelevant -- the trip must simply be useful to a trade or business. On the other hand, if you're an EMPLOYEE, the IRS says basically that you have a choice of where to live, and if you live far from work, your trip to work is "consumption" that is properly taxable. If you're an EMPLOYEE, your employer can REIMBURSE you $0.405 per mile for trips that are extaordinary, i.e. not simply from home to your usual workplace. The bottom line is that employees don't get to deduct a lot of the trade or business expenses that independent contractors do.

    Hope this helps.

    Greg

    P.S. I don't think breast implants are really amortizable; there's too much of a non-work related element of that, and if the IRS ever audited you on it, you would already have lost because if they found it to be non-amortizable, they'd charge you a penalty and interest on the tax deficiency. It's best to be safe on your deductions and avoid the audit.
    Last edited by qmetellus; 05-20-2005 at 06:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Quote Originally Posted by phonehome
    I strongly agree with the be less agressive on deductions thing, a lot of people think because they took a certain deduction and nothing happened that it was OK, it does not mean that, it just means you didn't get audited. Sort of like if you drive 90 on the freeway just because you didn't get a ticket, it does not mean that the speed limit is now 90.

    Another angle to this is that your business must show some profit, maybe only a few thousand but it must show a profit 3 out of 5 years, if it doesn't the IRS considers it a hobby. this is to prevent every guy with a garge full of his favorite tools but who only works on his own cars to claim he is a mechanic or whatever and then writing off his "investment"
    Exotic dancing will not qualify as a hobby. You need an activity not engaged in primarily for profit AND a loss for 3 of 5 years in order for your losses to be nondeductible. The real danger is the alternative minimum tax, not the hobby provisions.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    a few clarifications based on actual experience...

    Re car mileage deductions. What greg says is true about deducting 100% of business mileage PROVIDING that you have formed an LLC or corporation and that LLC or corporation is the owner of the vehicle. If you operate as a sole proprietor business and if you personally own the vehicle, you WILL get flak over the 'first and last' legs of your drive being a legitimate business expense if you routinely dance at the same club. This is based on an IRS interpretatiion of legitimate business mileage for storeowners, accountants, etc. who routinely drive only between their home and their single place of business. If, however, you do some road trips with overnight stays, even if you file as a sole proprietor the business travel mileage deduction will fly OK even if some of the trips are local. This is based on an IRS interpretation of legitimate business mileage for salesmen, servicemen, etc who travel to many different places besides their main office during the course of a typical week.

    Re breast implants. Under the most recent congressional legislation, breast implants and all other cosmetic surgery is considered to be a non-essential and voluntary expense thus not a legitimate business expense deduction. A feature entertainer named Cynthia Hess (a.k.a. Chesty Love) challenged this IRS position in tax court, and was granted a letter ruling in her favor. The essence of the letter ruling was that #1 if the girl getting the breast implants works in a profession where breast implants can be demonstrated to increase income (a given for exotic dancers, a maybe for waitresses), and #2 if the size of the breast implants is sufficiently large such that their primary benefit is business related not cosmetic (i.e. the housewife test - generally taken to mean implants filled to 1000cc or more) then all costs related to getting breast implants are legitimate business expenses. These costs/business expenses can be written off in a single year under Section 179, or can be depreciated over three years. On the realistic side, some dancers I know who got implants in the 500-800cc range have tried to deduct them and have been challenged at audit. In one case the agent agreed to allow a deduction for 1/2 the cost. In another case the dancer was allowed to keep 100% of the deduction (but knowing this dancer I wouldn't be surprised if part of that reason was that she gave the IRS agent a REAL up close and personal inspection tour of her implants LOL). Three other dancers were disallowed.

    Keep in mind that if you are audited, EVERYTHING that is not purely black and white is subject to negotiation .... both on the income side and the expenses side.

    The last clarification is Social Security Tax vs Self Employment tax. An Employee is assessed something like 7 1/2% SSI tax, with a matching 7 1/2% tax being assessed on the Employer. In the case of a Self Employed person, there is no SSI tax per se but a 15% self-employment tax is assessed - basically both 'halves' of the SSI tax. Thus the difference in tax rates is 7 1/2%. This is also part of the reason that clubowners start running for the hills when a dancer asks whether she is an 'employee' !
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-20-2005 at 08:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Your form of business won't be an issue as far as mileage goes. I'm not an expert on taxation, but I am a recent law school grad with several courses in tax. The problem, always, is demonstrating that the miles were really for a business purpose. The IRS may look at you with more of a suspicious eye if you're not incorporated, an LLC, LLP, GP, LLLP, etc., but your entitlement to the deduction is not dependent on that. Just save as much documentation as you can to show that your travel was business-related.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Also..

    if you have been working at the same club for a while and you finally decide to report your income, couldn't that be a red flag too? B/c they could possibly go back and find out that you have been working there for so many years, and your income was not reported.

    Then you face penaltys, etc.

    mel, am i right on this?

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    That's a really tough question to answer. As people who are supposedly in 'the know' have told me, a major tool of the IRS is statistical analysis of incomes and deductions for people who work under the same job classification in the same zip code. The IRS computer apparently compares the reported incomes and deductions of one 'entertainer' versus the reported incomes and deductions of other 'entertainers' living and working in the same area. A major discrepancy on the high or low side can throw up a red flag.

    When it comes to dancers who do not report income taxes at all, or massively under-report their incomes, it might actually present a lower probability of audit if they simply kept doing the same thing year after year to avoid 'rocking the boat'. The risk of course is what you pointed out - that every club keeps records of some sort i.e. dancer schedules, vip room logs etc. which would constitute legal proof that a dancer has worked many more nights and done many more private dances than her tax return indicates. If for whatever reason a club is investigated, with today's information sharing agreements between various gov't agencies including the IRS it is highly probable that the club's records would come under scrutiny. As a result, if it is discovered that dancer x appears on the weekly schedules regularly, and if the IRS computer check shows that dancer x has not been filing tax returns or has been reporting $15,000 per year in income, it's entirely possible that the IRS might forecast that dancer x actually averaged $500 a night in income for 3 nights a week for the last 3 years, and send her a deficiency notice to the tune of $100,000 !

    Of course there are many other ways that the IRS computers could wave a red flag. The two recent additions thanks to the information sharing agreements with other gov't agencies are motor vehicle titles and real estate deeds, which both get reported to the IRS automatically. Thus if dancer x is reporting $15,000-$20,000 a year in income, but the motor vehicle title shows that she put down $5,000 in cash plus is making $700 a month car payments on a new $30,000 car, aaa-ooo-gah.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Keep in mind that if you use joe blow cpa and you get auditied youre screwed. If you use hr and block or jackson hewitt and you get audited or some other question arises they cover you. They have a guarantee that if they submit the return and its not right they cover you.

    Be careful on who does your taxes.
    AmyLynne

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    AmyLynne is correct in that it is important who helps you with taxes. To clarify though, I beleive the H&R Block/Hewit gaurantees are not that they will "cover you", it is that they will attend the audit with you. Their ability to actually represent you with any talent will be determined by their indvidual abilities (frankly some are really good and many others aren't). As many H&R or Hewitt preparers have limited tax knowledge (compared to Enrolled Agents, CPAs and Lawyers) (i.e. they enroll in a 60 or 80 hour prep course compared to 4+ years of college along with a 2 year apprentice program for CPAs in California - the depth of tax theory and resources to defend tax positions may matter during the course of an audit), I would advise confirming their abilities if you select them for representation.

    I have found the most important aspect in selecting competent tax counsel is the personality test - meaning does he or she demonstrate enough caring for you, your business, and your interest to advise you on how to legally minimize your tax costs while balancing audit exposures and related matters.

    The more mature your business is, the more valuable your professional resources become as they can and should be able to not only save you money, time, and hassels, but should be able to provide advice for a better future.

    I hope this is helpful and you may contact me with any futher questions,

    Regards,


    Daniel D. Morris,CPA
    [email protected]
    Daniel D. Morris, CPA
    [email protected]

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Dan is absolutely right. Jackson Hewitt and H&R Block will stand behind their calculations and attend an audit with you, but they will NOT vouch for the accuracy of the income, expense and deduction numbers which you provided to them upon which their tax calculations were based. This means that if the IRS somehow latches onto evidence or has reason to estimate that you have unreported income that you didn't inform the tax preparer about, Jackson Hewitt and H&R Block will run for the hills whilst pointing a flourescent finger at YOU.

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Mel is exactly correct. They only vouch for the accuracy of the math IE 1+1=2. If it starts to look like you didn't tell them about some of your ones, you can count on them selling you down the river in a heartbeat, they will not be fined or prosecuted in any way, all they have to do is balme it all on your "not telling them" even if it seemed to you that at the time "they didn't want to know"

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    Hire a tax professional (CPA) the first year, look at how he did your tax return.
    Then next year, you can do it yourself. Use Turbo Tax if you need to. You will probably have specific questions on how certain numbers got to where they are. In which case, you can come back here and ask around. Looks to me like there are plenty of competent people here to lend assistance. Right now, your priority is sending estimated tax payments on a regular basis.

    If you want to do your tax return yourself in your first year, rather than hiring a CPA, just reopen this thread (or start a new one) later on Jan 1, '06.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    H & R Block. First they know about all of the deductions and what you can take.

    Second if you have a problem, they pay for the penalties etc if you get their guarantee which is extra but worth it.

    Third, You will normally increase your tax increase by 10-15% when you use a professional and you can also take them your last 3 years tax returns and theyll review them and resubmit so you might find money you missed for the past 3 years.

    It helps to use professionals.

    NEVER EVER LET A CUSTY DO YOUR TAXES!!!!
    AmyLynne

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    Default Re: Filing taxes when your a dancer?

    One quick observation. I find it difficult for a dancer to become a LP, LLP, or GP. Since under UPA and RUPA it takes two to tango (form a partnership).

    Regardless, I think the best route is to perform a cost benefit analysis to what you value. Buy a book on different tax strategies. Then depending on your level of income you could develop a tax plan by your self or with a tax professional, but this is entirely contingent on how much you make and how much you want to legally keep.

    Last I find this topic quite interesting. I am curious as to how many dancers became an LLC and in what state. And this maybe redunsant but incorporation does not necessarily protect you from all liability. The corporate veil can be piereced. And other crap can happen too

    Below is a book i found to be quite decent on this issue this post is discussing

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

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