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Thread: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

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    Default Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Be interested in hearing comments from dancers on this one.

    For several years now I've had OTC friendships with several dancers - visit each other's houses, go out for meals etc. Suits me and suits them.

    I also catch up with them at work - their choice that I do so. They tend to like lifts to and from the venues and while they're working they and I tend to find a quiet corner where we can drink and chat while not actually hustling for dances. Means they can relax and not have to fend off requests for phone numbers, etc.

    [Bit of an aside - this is in the UK where there are strip pubs. These are essentially bars where the dancers typically collect the equivalent of $2 from every guy in the bar before doing a walk around strip lasting a single record. There's often a small semi-curtained off area where they can do private dances for $30 - $40. Might be 2 - 3 dancers working the shift and 20 - 25 guys in the pub.]

    Both my dancer friends and I feel no need to indulge in the usual BS you get between customer and dancer, so the conversation tends to be the normal one you'd get between friends. I also know they're more comfortable if I don't pay attention while they're dancing, so I rarely look at them while they're nude.

    It's not uncommon for one or both of the other dancers on the shift to join us. It might be they know the dancer I'm friendly with, it might be they have a nodding acquaintance with me or have heard through the dancer grapevine that I'm an affable bloke that will treat them well.

    The inevitable result is that the dancer who joins us will then refuse to let me put the $2 in her jug before each of her dances. Equally inevitably I'll take the attitude that I'll buy her drinks instead. The area where they and I sit tends to be out of earshot, and often out of the line of sight of most of the pub. It often becomes a little bubble of "reality", with the other dancers relaxing and only readopting their "dancer persona" when going back into the main part of the pub.

    What I've noticed is that if either of the other dancers join us, they then start to become a little uncomfortable if I watch them when they're dancing. I now make a deliberate point of saying that I don't take the dancing too seriously and they are perfectly welcome to totally ignore me while they are dancing, and I'll return the compliment by not paying attention. They seem to relax a lot after this and clearly prefer this tacit agreement that they don't show me and I don't look.

    I guess the question for dancers on this board is, do you feel uncomfortable being "professionally" nude in front of someone whom you've come to deal with on a "friendly" as opposed to a "customer" basis?

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    I would. I Would not want any of my OTC frinds to come visit me at work, and I hide all my stripper gear, pics of myself in costume, etc whenever people come to the house. It's OK with me that people KNOW what I am doing, but I prefer thy not actaully see it.


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  3. #3
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    My advice: Don't visit OTC dancer friends at their clubs. For starters, such visits are plagued with potential awkwardness: Do you buy dances or tip your pal? Do you buy dances or tip other dancers and not your pal? Do you not buy dances or tip anybody? (Gee, where's the fun in that?)

    The bigger reason not to visit is simply this: She's WORKING. Time spent yammering with you is time she isn't spending pursuing the prime objective: Making ooddles of money!

    Okay, despite what I just said, I'm well aware that one's pals sometime long to see a friendly, familiar face, particularly if there's some drama going on at the club or in their personal lives. So I suppose I'd say this: Never make a habit of visiting her club, don't presume you can drop in unannounced, and only visit when she specifically invites you, typically as part of some larger social plan ("After my shift, let's go eat/drink/etc.... ").

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Personally, I have zero problem with it. I've had heaps of my close friends (male and female) come visit me when I've been dancing and it hasn't been an issue for me (them seeing me naked). I don't know if it's an issue for them, but if it is I certainly haven't noticed. If it is then they don't have to come and watch, do they? And if they get their rocks off watching me it doesn't really bother me, everyone's human and they have hormones. As long as they don't try to grope me or anything - then we wouldn't be friends anymore. It's all about trust to me.

    They'll tip me for fun and have a bit of a flirt and we all have a bit of a laugh. I don't really care if they see me naked or not, I'm pretty openminded and have no hangups when it comes to nudity. Not to say that I'd parade around them naked in my own home, but I see it more like going topless at Bondi Beach or skinnydipping at a nude beach.

    I haven't given them any lapdances or anything, but that's because we're not allowed.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Picking up on the replies.

    Firstly, the environment I am discussing is UK strip pubs, not a US lap dancing club - the dynamics are different. I've been in UK lap dancing clubs and frankly didn't like it - the relentless pressure for dances can get a little wearing. UK strip pubs are a little more laid back and have a much more relaxed atmosphere.

    I do go to these places at the my dancer friends' requests - and will typically give them a lift to and from the venue. They also quite like the fact that I "lurk" in a quiet corner and are always there for a chat/laugh/drink, etc. Remember the work environment allows this - I could not do the same in a lap dance club.

    Also, the dancer grapevine is alive and well. Often, if another dancer joins me, she'll already know I'm well behaved, "dancer-friendly" and have long ceased to take things too seriously.

    I have noticed a kind of pattern in what happens. Another dancer on the shift might join me and my dancer friend for a chat, with me still putting in her jug, (see my first post). After maybe a couple of chats, and a couple of collections, she'll then make it clear that she doesn't want me to put into her jug - hand over the top, or move away before I can put in. The next time she comes over for a chat I usually tell her that as I'm not allowed to put into her jug, I insist on buying her a drink instead.

    Now many UK strip pubs are walk around, with the dancers gradually working their way around the bar. While I was putting in the jug, (and if my dancer friend was elsewhere), the other dancer would typically include me in her dance. After I've stopped putting in the jug and buying drinks, I often notice a slight uneasiness/hesitation in their body language if they dance in front of me.

    At this point, when the dancer comes over again for a chat, I usually say that I sense she's a little uncomfortable and that I'm perfectly happy to give her the option not to include me in future dances. The classical reaction to this is usually a hug and a peck on the cheek. Thereafter she concentrates on the rest of the pub while dancing, while tacitly ignoring me.

    I've also noticed that the "stripper persona" that the dancer typically uses when working gets junked shortly thereafter and that any future conversation is far more relaxed and totally divorced from the fact that she's working.

    This change in attitude between me and the dancer has happened too frequently in recent months to be coincidence - there is a distinct pattern to it. The dancer will stop me putting in her jug and I'll start buying her drinks as a consequence. This signals that I'm no longer regarded purely as a customer. She'll then show slight embarassment in dancing in front of me, whereon I'll tell her I'm quite happy for her not to. She'll then avoid me while dancing, but will drop her dancer persona when she comes over to chat. We've then arrived at the situation where the rest of the pub is her work environment, while the place we're sitting has become divorced from it.

    This has happened about half a dozen times over the last 3 or 4 months - hence my post to find out how other dancers react. Please also note in all of this, that it is generally the dancer initiating things - for example I never decline to put into their jug; they make it clear they want me to stop.

    My personal theory is that most dancers prefer their customers to remain strangers to them. If the relationship becomes a bit more personal and friendly, then quite a few dancers find the nudity more difficult. Thus if given the option to put the nudity into the background, dancers accept this because it allows the dynamics of the conversation, etc., to change and them to treat me very differently than if they were still dancing for me.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    In my experience, it all depends on the woman. Some are uncomfortable with it and don't like it. Others, if they know you, are fine with it. One dancer I am friends with "MAKES" me buy a lap dance from her when she sees me in the club. she is however very flirty and VERY comfortable with her body and nudity in general. Others won't give you the time of day in the club if you don't have a dollar out and refuse to get friendly in the club with any customers.

    The ones who weird me out are the ones who bring their boyfriends into the club and sit in a corner with them...that part isn't so bad, but you can tell some of the guys are uncomfortable with what their girl does...like if they aren't there the girl doesn't do dances, anyway. The girl will be up on stage and you go up to give her a dollar and you can fell the boyfriends eyes just boring into you. VERY uncomfortable. There is nothing worse than a dancer's jealous boyfriend hanging out in her club!!

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    Senior Member Truce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    what is an OTC? Sorry im from Australia!

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    OTC is the abbreviation for "Outside The Club"

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    G'day Truce, I'm from Australia too! I think OTC means "outside the club" - I worked it out after a while.

    I noticed there's heaps of acronyms on this site - there's PL and ATF as well (I think ATF means All Time Favourite, not sure what PL means).

    Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. Phil, I think I understand where you're coming from now, you're talking about dancers you met inside the club and became friends OTC with, as opposed to having a friend that dances?

    I have both, I have friends who come visit me to hang out and give me some moral support and have a laugh on a Saturday night, and guys I've met inside who I've built up a friendship with and gone for a boogie and a drink outside the club with. I'm totally cool with them visiting and it doesnt bother me if they see me naked. I have no hangups with nudity and I place a lot of emphasis on trust in a friendship. if they want to look at me stripping it's no problem, they're inside the club and I'm dancing. Same when I go sunbaking at Bondi or Tamarama with some guy friends and I take my top off and they tease me about my boobies being malformed or something, I don't mind that either, it's all in good fun.

    If I caught them peeking inside my bedroom window while I was changing then I'd be less impressed. As I said, Trust is more important to me.

    Hope that helps !!! (I luv this smiley! )

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    Senior Member Ashara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Oops didnt realise I wrote an essay! Just wanted to add that this is just my opinon, other people could be different to me.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashara
    I noticed there's heaps of acronyms on this site - there's PL and ATF as well (I think ATF means All Time Favourite, not sure what PL means).
    PL is pathetic loser, as in someone who will spend huge amounts of money on a dancer in the hopes of getting her to meet him outside of the club. Such hopes tend to be unfulfilled, and there are stories of guys spending tens of thousands of dollars to no avail.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashara
    Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. Phil, I think I understand where you're coming from now, you're talking about dancers you met inside the club and became friends OTC with, as opposed to having a friend that dances?

    I have both, I have friends who come visit me to hang out and give me some moral support and have a laugh on a Saturday night, and guys I've met inside who I've built up a friendship with and gone for a boogie and a drink outside the club with. I'm totally cool with them visiting and it doesnt bother me if they see me naked. I have no hangups with nudity and I place a lot of emphasis on trust in a friendship. if they want to look at me stripping it's no problem, they're inside the club and I'm dancing. Same when I go sunbaking at Bondi or Tamarama with some guy friends and I take my top off and they tease me about my boobies being malformed or something, I don't mind that either, it's all in good fun.

    If I caught them peeking inside my bedroom window while I was changing then I'd be less impressed. As I said, Trust is more important to me.
    I tend to go to the venues with several dancers I met inside the venues and become friends OTC with. While inside the venue it's not uncommon for another dancers on the shift to join us in an out of the way corner. It's the other dancer that joins us that tends to prefer the option of not dancing in front of me if she gets involved in a conversation with us.

    With the dancers I have an OTC friendship with, the attitude varies. With one we seem to have reached a tacit agreement that I don't notice she's nude - in fact she much prefers me to keep my eyes on her face when she is. Another finds private dances with me hilarious - her sole mission in life seems to be to try and reduce me to helpless laughter. (I do return the compliment.)

    I think most dancer's attitudes to nudity in front of you changes when you start to make the transition from customer to friend.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    When my husband was stationed in Alaska, I got to know almost every single one of the MP's on a friendly basis. Some would come over, some we would go out with, two even started working at my club as bouncers. One night hubby brought in every single one of his MP friends that were off that night (about 12 of em), and I danced and they tipped, one got a lapdance later that week from me. I was never uncomfortable dancing in front of them, or being topless, and they didnt treat me any differently outside of the club. I guess it is different for everyone though.

  14. #14
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    Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Meh, it's only awkward if you let it be that way. Likewise, it only gets in the way if one or both of you forgets that she's working. All you need to do is figure out the kind of ITC relationship that you're both comfortable with, and stick to it. For your part as a friend, you need to remember both that she is working (and you therefore can't take up too much of her time), and that the environment's different (and therefore different rules apply).

    Case in point: I have an old mate who's a dancer. Saturday we caught up for the day, had lunch/dinner, went shopping and basically just hung out. We then went to her work, where I was meeting another mutual friend and a bunch of guys.

    Once there, I don't think we talked all that much for the rest of the night. She spent a bit of time hanging out at our table, sure - but it was also worth her time financially. For our part, me and our other friend spent our time sizing up who in our group had money to spend, talking her up to them and 'encouraging' them to buy dances from her (while of course emphasising that VIP was definitely the way to go).

    When she's giving table dances, I avert my eyes. It's potentially distracting for her, would piss off another mate/her ex (who wasn't there, but it's the principle) and besides would be vaugely uncomfortable for me. Likewise, I am often a very touchy-feely person with my friends, especially when I've had a couple of drinks. Sends the wrong signals about both my attitude and her boundaries ITC, so I'm careful what I do.

    It's like having a mate who's a waitress and eating at her restaurant (except of course you can't get cheaper rates...er...) (That was probably a bad analogy...)

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    For me.. it is a trust issue. I will not even build up an OTC relationship with you unless you have spent enough time with me ITC ..... even if I've done numerous dances for you. I feel "safe" within the club and can easily 'hang out' to talk with you and so forth whilst working..... until such a time when I feel comfortable with any OTC meetings.

    For me, it is making sure your motives are friendship based... 100%.

    Once I have established that your motives are friendship based (to truely be a friend and not have any hope of "getting into my pants".. ever!).... I don't care if you come in the club and see me nude or not... however I will stipulate that you, at least, tip me on stage... be a friend and help me out (even if I sneak back the tips to you).

    Actually, once I know that you are indeed a friend... I would love for you to visit me! Having one familiar face in the club ... someone I can go to for a little bit (instead of going to the Dressing Room or somewhere to re-group) can really help me out. Like I said, we can even have a 'scheme' going (as such) where you will tip me.. I'll do my thang.. and then later on (discretely, of course) give you back the money you tipped me with so that you can continue to tip me.

    I have done that 'scheme' with many friends to help encourage stage tips... and make me seem popular...

    That is just me tho'....


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    Senior Member Super Cecil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    quite a few girls i am the first jackass to give a dollar too them while they on stage.

    it's more the fact that i'll get up when there names are called i think anyway
    Let the Flaming Begin!!!

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    Senior Member Ashara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W

    I think most dancer's attitudes to nudity in front of you changes when you start to make the transition from customer to friend.

    Phil.
    Well, I don't know about the dancers you know, but in my own case it's not a problem. Never had a hangup with nudity, that's why I'm dancing. why should I get self-conscious just because I'm naked before a friend as opposed to a stranger?

    Ive been nude in front of friends heaps of times and it hasnt worried me, though I respect the rights of those who don't want to see me nude. Though I can see that from a guy's point of view how a guy might constreue that to be an obstacle in the friendship. Doesnt worry me, but that's just me.

    I think the bigger hangup for a dancer is actually building an OTC friendship with someone you met inside the club, as opposed to being nude in front of him. I suppose I'm only young and I'm a naturally friendly person, if I meet a nice bloke who shows over constant visits that he's a nice bloke and doesn't act like he's a hero or loves himself, then I'd be willing to maybe go clubbing or have a drink with him in a social outing with other people involved.

    It'd take a little while before I would be willing to have them over to my place though. Just like someone you meet at a normal place, takes some time to determine someone's motivation - you don't just invite anybody home. Trust takes some time to build, but for me once it's built its there until someone does something to destroy it, then its gone for good.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    There is one man whom I have known for a long time and who I know I can visit at his home and go out for dinner with or go to the pub with, etc. We call each other and I actually do get on well with him. He knows quite a lot about my out-of-work commitments even though, funnily enough, he doesn't know my real name (he always calls me by my stage name). However, he is still a customer of mine and when he comes into the club, he will happily spend money on me and watch my stage sets.

    Now, the reason I do not feel uncomfortable about this is because this is not a standard friendship. This man was a ex-semi-sugardaddy to me a long time ago and the relationship did never become the sort you would experience where you just randomly call up your pals to go out or have them help you at home. He is a lot older than me and we generally have 'sensible' friendly chats. It is a more restrained friendship although it is a comfortable one. I like it that way.
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Every case and every girl is different. One of my closest friends is a dancer with whom I developed an OTC friendship after I helped her with some computer issues a few years ago. I see her 2 or 3 times a month OTC but still frequent the club she dances at even though I am no longer a customer of hers. The nudity is definitely not problem for either of us. She's a great looking woman and she knows that I still notice that but I don't sit at the stage and watch her shows and, aside from buying her drinks, I don't tip her. We stopped doing Lap dances (a mutual decision) a month or so into our OTC friendship-this, I feel, is a must.

    Again, the nudity is certainly not an issue. I've taken dozens of semi-nude photographs of her, again, at her request, as she trusts me enough to be naked in her house with me. A rather funny incident did occur a few days ago. I had just helped her finish hooking up her webcam and she was chatting with her older sister back in Brazil. I don't speak Portuguese so I'm not quite sure what led up to this but, sudddenly, my friend dropped her sweat pants and flashed her butt to her sister(butts are very important to Brazilian women, and men!) Her sister was shocked that my friend would do this with me in the house...too bad,I was hoping for a reciprocal flash...Like I say, everygirl is different.
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Whenever it begins to get personal, I stop sitting anywhere near the stage while she's dancing. But I will walk up and tip, in fact I'm usually the first person to do so, often while she's still fully dressed, and that sometimes gets the money flow started quicker for her. And if I go up to her while she's undressed onstage, I maintain eye contact the entire time, which takes a bit of self-control but I think it's appreciated. Sometimes it becomes a joke between us. Unlike Yoda, though, I've always continued to get private dances, but they've usually become less erotic as we've gotten to know each other better. Whenver we go to the VIP room, my most recent fav just undresses and sits on my lap while we talk, which I find to be quite enjoyable. In my experience that's what usually happens when you get to know each other, you become more intimate but less sexual. Which frankly I prefer.

    My ATF quit dancing 7 years ago and we've stayed good friends. And I have never seen her less than fully clothed since she quit dancing, she's quite modest around me, probably more so than with some of her other male friends. But as Yoda says, every girl is different.
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  21. #21
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    None of this is exact science, of course. People find their balance points--or not. My point is that an OTC friendship, should it devolve or grow into something more than a platonic friendship before it devolves, will have at least one unfortunate outcome: You'll never feel comfortable in her club again. For those of us who have preferences for the club as much for the performer, this is sad. In other words, you loose a friend AND a cool place to hang out. Least that's been my experience. SCs are supposed to smooth out social awkwardness, not add to it.

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    Default Re: Dancers, friendship and nudity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor
    None of this is exact science, of course. People find their balance points--or not. My point is that an OTC friendship, should it devolve or grow into something more than a platonic friendship before it devolves, will have at least one unfortunate outcome: You'll never feel comfortable in her club again.
    This can become an issue even when things are still platonic. My ATF (not the girl I talked about previously) and I where becoming very close in the months before she retired. It was a relationship very similar to what FONDL describes-we would sit in the private booth and talk. I didn't watch her on stage but I did go up and tip her. We had had a few OTC lunches and, once that began, it was becoming increasingly more difficult for me to see here at the club-it was making us both uncomfortable. I was actualy releived when she quit and was one of the only friends of hers who didn't try to talk her out of it. If she where still dancing today we would still be friends but I wouldn't be going to that club anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
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