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Thread: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

  1. #26
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    China's pollution is out of control right now because their economy has grown so fast.They have no restrictions or regulations on their pollution yet.My dad is there right now.That's the country we came from.There is a such thing as too much of a good thing.As much as I love my homeland,if they are not careful with that,they can wind up imploding on themselves.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Do I know Global Climate Change (not warming or cooling) is fact? yes, based on what I've seen. Can I state definitively it won't be proven otherwise by science in the future? no...I don't know what science will show in the future (except that pollution and waste are bad and we produced too much of it, since most of our waste lasts nearly forever)

    Science today seems to be on my side, as does the insurance industry and even our own president...who named Global Climate Change as a key issue.

    YOU stated above our decendents will "laugh at us" for these concepts - pretty definite stuff not backed up by anything more than "chicken little" science...and I notice you provide no more support for your opinion

  3. #28
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny


    The rest of the wold can't compete with us, so they are trying to get us to impose burdensome restrictions on ourselves to help them.
    That to me is a very pompous statement.China right now has the biggest economy for everything.As much as I love(and sometimes hate) this country,we are not invincible.We are just as susceptible to things as everyone else.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  4. #29
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    The Soviet Union had a great enviromental record



    It was warmer in the middle ages than it is now. It seems we have a regular cycle of warming and cooling(microcycles of a few hundred years within macrocycles of thousands)
    You can't love something you think is flawless - me


  5. #30
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    EDITTED TO ADD: This is the EXACT type of invincible,selfish mentality that will be the ruin of this nation one day.But according to people like you,you won't be here by that time so who cars,right???
    When did I state that I didn't care? I've got a kid, hope some day to have a grandkid or two. You really think I would intentionally destroy their world?

    If this nation ever comes, "to ruin", it will be because too many people mindlessly followed the crowd and refused to question conventional wisdom. There was a time when mankind was afriad to sail out of sight of land, fearing they would fall off the edge of the world. Aren't you glad somebody decided to test that theory? The first doctor to suspect that there was something unseen (germs) making people sick was fired from his job. He started requiring his medical students to wash their hands before touching patients. He was fired because "modern science" thought he was crazy. Aren't you glad peoploe kept questioning the "scienfifically proven facts" and discovered germs and how to prevent their spread?

    People can take thier beliefs from CNN and NPR, or they can investigate the true facts and make up their own minds. Personally, I prefer to think for myself.

    Now, I've got to go wash my Hummer.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  6. #31
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Think for yourself,so long as it isn't selfish and detrimental to everyone else.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  7. #32
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    That to me is a very pompous statement.China right now has the biggest economy for everything.As much as I love(and sometimes hate) this country,we are not invincible.We are just as susceptible to things as everyone else.
    That is not a pompous statement, that is a factual statment. The GDP of the U.S. is roughy double that of China, despite the fact the our population is roughly 1/4 that of China.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  8. #33
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    That is not a pompous statement, that is a factual statment. The GDP of the U.S. is roughy double that of China, despite the fact the our population is roughly 1/4 that of China.
    For now it is maybe.China has been a capitalist society for only 10-15 years.Imagine the numbers that reflect 10-15 years from now.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  9. #34
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    China's pollution is out of control right now because their economy has grown so fast.They have no restrictions or regulations on their pollution yet.My dad is there right now.That's the country we came from.There is a such thing as too much of a good thing.As much as I love my homeland,if they are not careful with that,they can wind up imploding on themselves.
    So air pollution from fast growing countries does less harm to the environment than from slower growing countries? How does the environment tell the difference? Besides that, aren't you supporting my position? If the most populated country in the world has, "no restrictions or regulations on their pollution", shouldn't they be the first ones to regulate their own pollution before the U.S. adopts even tougher standards. Why doesn't the world force China to catch up with the rest of the world? Wouldn't that would do a whole lot more to help things?
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  10. #35
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    For now it is maybe.China has been a capitalist society for only 10-15 years.Imagine the numbers that reflect 10-15 years from now.
    China is not a capitalist society.

    Actually, I definitely hope the economy in China continues to improve. Our country depends on exports, a billion chinese with money to spend is good for the U.S.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  11. #36
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    The government is communist but the society is capitalist.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  12. #37
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    So air pollution from fast growing countries does less harm to the environment than from slower growing countries? How does the environment tell the difference? Besides that, aren't you supporting my position? If the most populated country in the world has, "no restrictions or regulations on their pollution", shouldn't they be the first ones to regulate their own pollution before the U.S. adopts even tougher standards. Why doesn't the world force China to catch up with the rest of the world? Wouldn't that would do a whole lot more to help things?
    I definately agree that China needs to start regulating their environment.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  13. #38
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    It's spurious to measure pollution per unit of GDP...Post-industrial societies like the US have outsourced their pollution from industrial processes to places (like China) where there are cheaper workers. Ask Melonie, she'll tell you. Per capita pollution, of course, is still much higher here in the US.

    The world is definitely warming. I don't know if that's a bad thing or not, though I'm sure people in the Maldives and Bangladesh wouldn't be viewing the process with such equanimity. But at least we should be developing weapons against that process if it turns out 50 years into our grand environmental experiment that it IS a bad thing.

    Destiny, you seem to be conflating "science" with "popular belief". Columbus knew the world was round because of scientists. I'd guess the germ theory was developed based on the use of scientific methodology (observation, accumulation of data, generation and testing of hypotheses). The reason that we often are able to look back at beliefs of 100 years prior and scoff at them is because of science, not despite it.
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
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  14. #39
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    The government is communist but the society is capitalist.
    So I'm free to move there, start my own newspaper and print whatever I want?
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  15. #40
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    The media is still run by the communists,but you can move there,aquire citizenship and open your own business.

    (Don't quote me,but you may have become a citizen to open a business there.)
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  16. #41
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    "Originally Posted by Destiny


    The rest of the wold can't compete with us, so they are trying to get us to impose burdensome restrictions on ourselves to help them."

    Can't compete with us? Don't we (as Melonie and you have pointed out) have basically no infrastructure and manufacturing left in the US? Could it be a symbiotic relationship, or reality that our standard of living is so high BECAUSE of those countries?

    I've repeatedly suggested we balance domestic and overseas pollution through the strengt of the US market. Better than any treaty, yet you still aren't happy.

    Your statement:
    "If this nation ever comes, "to ruin", it will be because too many people mindlessly followed the crowd and refused to question conventional wisdom." is exactly opposite to your stated positions on these threads

    Don't try to balance economy, ecology, lifestyle until there's more overwhelmming PROOF of a problem

    Don't conserve or support alternatives to oil even though we know the supply is finite

    don't provide balanced, safe workplaces at home and abroad because it might rock the boat

  17. #42
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    It's spurious to measure pollution per unit of GDP...Post-industrial societies like the US have outsourced their pollution from industrial processes to places (like China) where there are cheaper workers. Ask Melonie, she'll tell you. Per capita pollution, of course, is still much higher here in the US.
    The I would contend that it is equally spurious to compare per capita pollution. The U.S. produces roughly 25% of the world's good and services with only about 6% of its population. If our per capita pollution is higher, that does not necessarily mean we are bigger polluters.

    Destiny, you seem to be conflating "science" with "popular belief". Columbus knew the world was round because of scientists. I'd guess the germ theory was developed based on the use of scientific methodology (observation, accumulation of data, generation and testing of hypotheses). The reason that we often are able to look back at beliefs of 100 years prior and scoff at them is because of science, not despite it.
    A fair point, I'll try to be more specific. Though in the case of the doctor that was fired, it was the other doctors that got him fired.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  18. #43
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    The media is still run by the communists,but you can move there,aquire citizenship and open your own business.

    (Don't quote me,but you may have become a citizen to open a business there.)
    If the government prohibits citizens from starting certain businesses, in this example, a newspaper, it's not a capitalist society. I'm not denying that there are "pockets of capitalism" in certain areas and in certain industries. Another example is the internet. The government is trying to strictly control what websites etc. the chinese can access. So they would not allow a citizen to start an ISP and allow unfiltered access to the world wide web. Tianamen Square shows that there is a limit to how far the communists in power are willing to loosen the reins on the people.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  19. #44
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    I believe the pollution and waste created TO MAIINTAIN, SUPPORT or SERVE an economy must be counted in that economy's pollution. Therefore, overseas pollution and deaths caused by factories serving the US economy ARE OUR RESPONSIBILITY (as they would not occur without our demand)

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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    "Hey, I can't help it if I'm polluting more than you! I'm RICH!!!! You think these motorboats run on salt water?"
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  21. #46
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    If the government prohibits citizens from starting certain businesses, in this example, a newspaper, it's not a capitalist society. I'm not denying that there are "pockets of capitalism" in certain areas and in certain industries. Another example is the internet. The government is trying to strictly control what websites etc. the chinese can access. So they would not allow a citizen to start an ISP and allow unfiltered access to the world wide web. Tianamen Square shows that there is a limit to how far the communists in power are willing to loosen the reins on the people.
    If it isn't a capitalist society,how come you can get Starbuck's and test drive a Lexus just like you can here???

    Newspapers are part of the media.It is not looked at as a business.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  22. #47
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    my demarcation line is the presence of a stock market.

    If you have private property in the means of production, I consider you more or less a capitalist country.
    You can't love something you think is flawless - me


  23. #48
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    The rest of the wold can't compete with us, so they are trying to get us to impose burdensome restrictions on ourselves to help them."

    Can't compete with us? Don't we (as Melonie and you have pointed out) have basically no infrastructure and manufacturing left in the US? Could it be a symbiotic relationship, or reality that our standard of living is so high BECAUSE of those countries?
    At the present time, the rest of the world cannot compete with us economically. While I agree with Melonie on a lot of issues, the outsourcing issue is not one of them. I'm sure I've posted on the futility of trying to regulate outsourcing, that doesn't mean I think we can't compete. In fact, I believe I have stated on here that the U.S. should not try to compete in certain manufacturing idustries, but should instead focus on developing future industries. I saw one guy on TV the other day (i didn't have time to watch the whole show so I didn't catch his name) who stated, "most jobs are not outsourced to India, they are outsourced to the past". That's my feeling as well. Rather than try to hold on to the past by attempting to regulate jobs back to the U.S., let's embrace the future by developing a workforce that will keep us ahead of the game.

    Don't try to balance economy, ecology, lifestyle until there's more overwhelmming PROOF of a problem
    I never used the term "overwhelming". Also, if its such a huge problem, why aren't we forcing India and China to help address it? If, as Al Gore says the earth, "is in the balance", shouldn't the entire world help solve the problem?

    Don't conserve or support alternatives to oil even though we know the supply is finite
    As the supply dwindles, the price will increase, simple economics. Therefore, as the supply gets closer to exhaustion, higher prices will make alternatives economically feasible.

    don't provide balanced, safe workplaces at home and abroad because it might rock the boat
    I never said that. I am opposed to your plan of Environmental Imperialism, that's true. Skilled workers refuse to work in sweatshops. You want to improve working conditions? Improve the rewards for those with skills.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  24. #49
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    "shouldn't the entire world help solve the problem?" Yes, and as the leading consumer (and waster) of materials and the largest economy (on which many others depend, as we on theirs) we have the ability to make it happen...but the idea of trying to do that is called environmental imperialism.

    Have cake + eat it too = overweight and illogical

  25. #50
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    If it isn't a capitalist society,how come you can get Starbuck's and test drive a Lexus just like you can here???

    Newspapers are part of the media.It is not looked at as a business.
    I stated that there were pockets of capitalism. Despite what the newspapers would like you to believe, they are run as for profit businesses. If a government prohibits peoples from starting such a business, it is not a capitalist government.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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