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Thread: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

  1. #76
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    Actually, a number of people believe that global warming would be good for mankind. The main benefit cited was longer growing seasons in the northern hemisphere.
    OK, since you're stuck on the WARMING impacts..instead of GCC

    OOOH....that really outweighs the loss of many species dying off (as we learned with coyotes and predators being killed off in the Northeast (resulting in overpopulation of other species), bats and bird species being reduced (resulting in overpopulation of bugs), etc..., every species has a purpose)

    really outweighs floods and weather ssues from the changing global temperature and breaking up of polar ice caps

    really outweighs overheated equatorial regions becoming uninhabitable...and the damage to countries totally dependent on (or totally bounded by) those geographic constraints

    shall I go on? what a crock!

  2. #77
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Yes, the planet will go on...will we be on it? will any living species??? or will it be a dead hunk of rock in the universe...or something else? Self-preservation sounds pretty good to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    You always say global climate change, not global warming. Are you saying that all these studies show that the earth is both getting warmer and cooler? Which one is it? Or is it both?
    again...GCC is simply that we are IMPACTING THE CLIMATE GLOBALLY, beyond the abbility of the earth to correct for the impact...of course, as we reduce open space and watersheds (two of nature's most important "corrective measures" for water, air and temperature) we don't help the problem

    Whenever anyone dares to question the "facts" of environmentalists, their response is that the risks of not "doing something now", demand action.
    isn't that the definition of risk analysis, one of the cornerstones of capitalism

    Is such an approach valid?
    ask any businessperson/.

    I go to the doctor with a bad headhache. If my doctor were to adopt the reasoning of today's environmentalists, he'd
    examine all of your activities (late nights out polluting your internal environment, outdated contacts you keep using (like we use oil) even when they don't have a future for you, etc. Once examining the activities, the doctor (or your sustainable business partner) would identify ALL the issues that need work, and would help build a plan to integrate those corrections in your life. Whether you adopt them (or we as a society do) is up to you.

    In the 80's it was acid rain. One writer described acid rain as an "ecological Hiroshima". "Experts" warned that forests would die off and that lakes would become giant death pools for the fish inhabiting them.
    and automobile paint formulas were changed to accommodate it...so fictional was the phenomenon that car makers spent money on it

    It didn't happen.
    could it be because we implemented pollution controls, scrubbers on smokestacks, and all the "clean air" regulations which GW is now working to remove?

    Seems we proved their effectiveness...


    In the 1990's it was ozone depletion. NASA even announced that they had discovered a huge hole in the ozone. Yet by the fall of 2000, NASA announced that this hole was shrinking and would be gone in a few decades.
    See above. Problem found, solutions implemented (no CFCs in aerosols, for one) and issue (partially at least) corrected.

    If people like me are skeptical, they have only themselves to blame
    Yes...you do have only yourself to blame...and so will your decendants
    Last edited by discretedancer; 05-09-2005 at 10:14 AM.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Political measures tend to be the most shortsighted around because politicians don't tend to see much further than the next election

    It would be ok if the world ended in December as long as they got re-elected in November.
    You can't love something you think is flawless - me


  4. #79
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    again...GCC is simply that we are IMPACTING THE CLIMATE GLOBALLY, beyond the abbility of the earth to correct for the impact...of course, as we reduce open space and watersheds (two of nature's most important "corrective measures" for water, air and temperature) we don't help the problem
    Again, we are IMPACTING IT HOW? You keep saying we are impacting the planet but never say what that impact is. If there is a measurable impact what is it? Is the planet getting warmer or cooler?
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    Yes, the planet will go on...will we be on it? will any living species??? or will it be a dead hunk of rock in the universe...or something else? Self-preservation sounds pretty good to me.
    Oh please, environmentalist extremists have been pandering that, "we're all gonna die" line for over 30 years. In the meantime, mankind has continued to thrive. Save those chicken little lines for someone that hasn't been hearing them all her life.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  6. #81
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    Oh please, environmentalist extremists have been pandering that, "we're all gonna die" line for over 30 years. In the meantime, mankind has continued to thrive.
    We're thriving? Disease, social problems, and starvation are at an all time high. How are we thriving?



  7. #82
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    We're thriving? Disease, social problems, and starvation are at an all time high. How are we thriving?
    In purely scientific terms, the human race is thriving. You need only to look at our increasing population for proof.

    Disease? Many preventable diseases across the world are virtually non-existant. We've forgotten how frightened our ancestors were of such incurable diseases such as polio and smallpox. Life expectancy is up, indicating healthier, longer lives. Others diseases such as malaria could be prevented, if we had the political will to do so.

    Social problems? I suppose that depends on your definition. Since the iron curtain fell, personal freedoms have been on the increase, as have disposable spending. Minorities of all types enjoy much greater freedoms than they did 50 years ago. The two most murderous countries in human history, Russia and China, appear to be changing their ways. I'd say generally, things are better, though of course not everywhere and to the same extent.

    Starvation? It has been eliminated. The growth in world food supplies has outpaced the growth in population for the last decade. You can go the U.N. website and see that for yourself. Are people still starving to death? Yes, sadly they are. But the reasons are political/military, not a lack of supply.

    The media likes to trumpet bad news so much some times we forget how good we have it.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  8. #83
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    some times we forget how good we have it.
    If the we are self-insulated Americans over a certain income level, yes. otherwise no

    reasons of Politics vs supply really stop mattering when you're the one with kids starving

    US infant mortality rates are appalling, let alone our education successes

    internationally and within our own country MANY people are starving

    Diseases we didn't HAVE 50 years ago we have, cancer cases on the rise, and many "extinct" diseases...well/...aren't

    Social problems...hmmm, post 9/11, with a war going on being fought over a dictator whose gone, with another country "test firing" missles toward Japan, people in US towns once "Norman Rockwell" now afraid to go out at night, girls even on this board talking about feeling threatened, more people "needing" guns at home for protection, alarm system sales on the rise, schoolyard shootings and crimes I'd never heard of are now common. Hmm...rose colored glasses time

    It's not all bad news, not all good. Gotta take the good and work to fix the bad. Not study the good and be happy the bad hasn't touched you...yet.

  9. #84
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    If the we are self-insulated Americans over a certain income level, yes. otherwise no

    reasons of Politics vs supply really stop mattering when you're the one with kids starving
    And more often than not, it's some tyrannical dictator using food as a weapon against his political enemies. Of course, the only way to affect any real change is through a strong military. Yet think of all the ethanol that Pentagon budget could buy.

    US infant mortality rates are appalling, let alone our education successes
    The government runs the schools and the result is disastrous. Let's get government out of the education business.

    internationally and within our own country MANY people are starving
    What percentage of our population is starving?

    Diseases we didn't HAVE 50 years ago we have, cancer cases on the rise, and many "extinct" diseases...well/...aren't
    What's the life expectancy done over the last 50 years?

    Social problems...hmmm, post 9/11, with a war going on being fought over a dictator whose gone, with another country "test firing" missles toward Japan, people in US towns once "Norman Rockwell" now afraid to go out at night, girls even on this board talking about feeling threatened, more people "needing" guns at home for protection, alarm system sales on the rise, schoolyard shootings and crimes I'd never heard of are now common. Hmm...rose colored glasses time

    It's not all bad news, not all good. Gotta take the good and work to fix the bad. Not study the good and be happy the bad hasn't touched you...yet.
    I really wonder about a political view that depends on fear mongering for legitimacy.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  10. #85
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    I really wonder about a political view that depends on fear mongering for legitimacy.
    so do I...that's why I don't promote fear, just facts

    I am more scared by a viewpoint that doesn't take personal responsibility for actions, but instead trusts "the market" to take care of everything....and requires no action, involvement or personal responsibility

  11. #86
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: do you agree? If not, why? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    I really wonder about a political view that depends on fear mongering for legitimacy.
    "The truth is replaced by silence and the silence is a lie" - Yevgeny Yevteshenko

    I'm going to step out of this one now - it's hard to moderate a disscusion I'm involved in.

    Lena



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