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Thread: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

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    How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    I would like to transform the nature of the relationship with my ATF from being her customer to being her boyfriend. What's the best way to go about doing this? Being a "nice gir"l she is not exactly a top earner and, hence, is a bit hard up for cash. What's the best way to take $$$ out of the equation?

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Are you kidding me!!??

    Im really sorry you think this can happen. Yes, it has happened before but if it is to happen AT ALL...it will happen naturally. If it does SHE will ask you out.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    If you meet a girl in the club, it is a business relationship from that point on. Forever.


    UNLESS!!!

    Unless she decides she wants you for more than a customer. That's only if she decides though. Otherwise, you're fucked. You're just a dumbass customer in love with a stripper. Neither the first nor last you'll be.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    I'm really sorry, but you're probably wasting your time. As a dancer I can tell you that most of us will not date our customers. It's bad for our money. And it's bad for our image. If, and I repeat IF, she wants to have a real relationship with you, i.e. one that is sexual and romantic in nature, SHE WILL LET YOU KNOW. Seriously. She really will. I don't know how long you've been getting dances from her, but if you've been going to her club for some time now and she hasn't let you know that she's into you, then there's a 99.9% chance that she's NOT into you.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    OK, I'll pretend you're serious and not a total trolling PL/RIL.

    The First Rule of SCing is: Always follow the dancer's lead.

    Dancers won't hesitate to let you know if they're interested in you. If she's not giving you an opening or outright expression of interest, you have no chance, so move on...
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    I would like to transform the nature of the relationship with my ATF from being her customer to being her boyfriend. What's the best way to go about doing this?
    Have you tried asking her out yet? That's kind of a predecessor to being her boyfriend. Do you think you are just going to get a certain amount of lap dances and she will suddenly announce, "Okay, I guess you're my boyfriend now." I'm not saying it's going to work, but you kind of need to make a move if you hope to have any chance with her.
    A fat chick is like a big, warm, comfortable pillow that you can also have sex with....

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by AinNY
    POOPER...PUT IT IN THE POOPER....better advice hath never ben spoketh on this boardeth
    Can I put it in your pooper, Ain?


    No but seriously....


    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    While I kind of appreciate the attempts at humor this is a serious question. I don't think that just waiting and spending money in the meantime is a good plan. What if she doesn't want to? Then I will have wasted all that money when I could have bailed earlier. Also by just waiting I encourage her to think of me as just a money source. Is an ultimatum in order? Normally I don't think this way about strippers: yeah it's jut business, but this one is different to me. Thanks!

    RIL
    If she's interested, she will let you know. Otherwise, consider it still only business. If you just cease with the cash flow and she isnt interested in you as a possible love interest, you'll be stuck with nothing at all. Continue to be a loyal regular and, if she wants to, she will initiate things with you.
    Number of times Rickrolled on stage: 6
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    The Other Owner..yes a full moon is approaching. Yes, for all of you that have seen the milk commercial buy the women milk.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    While I kind of appreciate the attempts at humor this is a serious question. I don't think that just waiting and spending money in the meantime is a good plan. What if she doesn't want to? Then I will have wasted all that money when I could have bailed earlier. Also by just waiting I encourage her to think of me as just a money source. Is an ultimatum in order? Normally I don't think this way about strippers: yeah it's jut business, but this one is different to me. Thanks!

    RIL
    Realistically the chances of you transforming yourself from customer to bf are remote. One very common quote I hear from dancers I know well is "I'd never date anyone I met in a strip venue - their motives for being in there are motives that would put me off them in the first place."

    Another problem is the absolutely rigid seperation that most dancers keep between professional and social life. You have to be very trusted, (and I mean trusted), to move from one to the other. You are categoried as a customer and she will have that mental attitude to you. To see you as potential bf means a big mental leap for her.

    Also remember that dancers adopt persona at work. The person you like might be completely different outside of work.

    Finally, an anecdote, which perfectly illustrates a dancer's mindset. I was recently introduced to a dancer by another dancer who is by way of being a friend of mine. We got on like a house on fire. I made it clear that I was quite happy to avoid seeing her at work. "I'm glad", she said. "I want you as a friend, and I don't want my friends to see me naked."

    Phil.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    While I kind of appreciate the attempts at humor this is a serious question. I don't think that just waiting and spending money in the meantime is a good plan. What if she doesn't want to? Then I will have wasted all that money when I could have bailed earlier. Also by just waiting I encourage her to think of me as just a money source. Is an ultimatum in order? Normally I don't think this way about strippers: yeah it's jut business, but this one is different to me. Thanks!

    RIL
    This is all I need to read to offer my advice.

    First of all, it sounds like you're trying to take advantage of her lack of earnings and trying to woo her with money. You have pretty much just said that it'd be a waste of money if her feelings are unrequited after you've spent cash on her. Even in the real world, you cannot buy love with money, so why should a girl in an SC be any different? Treat her with respect. If you try and get her this way, then it will backfire because (a) if she does end up going out with you, that is all she will see you as, an ATM, and (b) it will not last long, her feelings will probably never match yours.

    Again, have you actually told her you like her? I mean, I know that dancers and customers can fall for each other, but if this is strictly a business relationship for her and she has no interest, then you may need to take time away from the club to get over it. The SC is her workplace and you shouldn't monopolise her time to try and get her to go out with you when she should be earning money for her upkeep.

    It sounds like you've got it pretty bad. I will not laugh at you because it happens, we're all human. But try and approach the subject realistically and respectfully. Strippers are used to men blurring the fantasy/reality line all too often and this is why your post has been met with unhelpful responses. If you speak to this girls and she feels the same, well, fantastic. But if this girl has no interest in you, just leave her alone. Don't harass, call or follow her because it may just be a job to her and that may be extra baggage that she may be unwilling to deal with.
    You are the envy
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    - Sara Bailey: Sieve of Words

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    She's just a girl. Ask her out if you are interested in her. The odds are hugely against you for all of the resons that others have stated but asking her out will bring about a quick resolution to an issue that you could spend months agonizing over otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
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    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    OK, some realistic advice.

    1. Follow Malibu's advice in spades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu
    If you speak to this girls and she feels the same, well, fantastic. But if this girl has no interest in you, just leave her alone. Don't harass, call or follow her because it may just be a job to her and that may be extra baggage that she may be unwilling to deal with.
    All dancers end up with one or more guys that develop a bit of an obsession with them. They can be made seriously uncomfortable by this. If your feelings are not reciprocated by her, let it be.

    2. Read the threads on this forum, particularly those pertaining to how dancers feel about their job. They are earning a living, and doing what it takes to earn that living. They are very honest on this forum about why and how they do things. Dancers FAKE it - I cannot emphasise this enough. Make sure you understand what the reality is - not the illusion she projects.

    3. Try to deal with her as you would if you met her outside of work and not operating within her "dancer persona". It won't be easy - dancers are very reluctant to give out meaningful personal information about themselves while they are working - too many potential stalkers about.

    She will however probably appreciate conversation about what books she's read, what films she's seen, etc. She spends her working life being told what great boobs she's got, how horny she is, etc. Most dancers find it is a relief to have a normal conversation.

    4. Be very sure it's her you like and not her dancer persona. If you do become her bf be assured that you will not be seeing her while she's at at work - it's not relationship enhancing. Be also assured that she probably won't be wearing sexy clothes, the same make up outside of work. Dancers can be surprisingly shy in real life.

    5. While you are with her in the club shy away from the nudity aspect - pay her for her time, not her dances. That way she'll know it's her you are interested in. From my experience of OTC, (Outside The Club), friendships with dancers it's often personally important to them that you do not look at them while they are nude.

    6. When you do talk to her, tell her that you realise that she must get asked this all the time, that you will fully understand if she just prefers you as a very well behaved regular, etc. Give her an easy way to say NO if she wants to. Above all , do not back her, (and you), into an embarassing corner.

    7. Accept that it is going to take time. No dancer is likely to immediately agree to meet you OTC - she will have to take time to get used to the idea. Even then, this may happen in stages. You might get a mobile number to start with - real name and address are a long way down the line. When you are invited into a dancer's home, it means she trusts you - and you will have to earn that trust before you get the invite.

    Phil.

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    Senior Member Super Cecil's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    I wouldn't want to change the relationships i've got in my club. it would ruin the whole flavor of the club if it went south. beside if you see her without her stripper persona on. You may not like what you see. For a time I thought as you do RIL.
    Then a very wise woman showed me the light. you have 3 options

    1. push and pray she says yes.
    2. continue waiting for her to ask you.
    3. quit the club.

    she will react one of the following ways.

    A she have you thrown out.
    B she'll use a skillful dodge and ignore the question.(most likely)
    C she'll acually says yes

    If she does C and theirs a snowballs chance in hell she will.
    then your in for more than you bargained for.

    if she says yes to you who else is she going to say yes too?
    if you screw it up you will never be able to go to that club again

    theirs alot the think about before you take the plunge.

    You need to see the club for what it is... It's the eye of the hurricane.
    A place where you can go and destress and draw enough strenght to face the storm in your life.
    Let the Flaming Begin!!!

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Is the 13th on a Friday this month? Well, by golly it is. And today the month/day/year are all the same number 05/05/05. I didn't think a full moon alone could be responsible for this thread.

    We now return you to your slightly interesting, but not really interesting (and just about two rungs from utterly pointless) topic, already in progress.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Ask yourself how you ended up as her RIL in the first place. Seriously, dating her is unlikely and if by some chance it does happen, you won't be able to deal with it. I have a MUCH better idea...

    Somewhere on SW I remember a thread about a service in NYC called wing-chick or something along those lines. Guys pay these girls to go out with them to help them meet girls in bars and clubs. Tell your ATF girl how you feel about her, but that you know it's doomed and probably a bad idea anyway. Instead, ask her if you can pay her to act as your wing-chick to help you meet someone on reasonably equal footing with you (i.e. not paying for her affection from the get go). ATF girl gets to keep you as a custy and possibly even a friend, and you get what you really want, a girlfriend. In a sense this would be a transformation of her as your ATF to your cupid/wing-chick. My guess is unless you are dumping wads of cash right now, she'll go for the idea.

    I have no real clue if this will work. I've never even heard of it before. Of course if the girls you meet while you are with her sense you are in love with her, your chances of meeting a mate are zippo. This will probably be your biggest obstacle.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Hey Sweetie...I think you need to remember that a strip club is a business, and that dancers are in the business to provide a FANTASY. If they are interested in dating you, they will let you know.

    There is a regular at my club who I have a huge crush on. If there ever comes a day when I am single and no longer working at the club, I would certainly consider dating him. But I have a boyfriend. A great bf. Seeing that dancers are in the business of selling a fantasy, I have not told my regular about my bf, because then it would kill the fantasy and I'd no longer be doing my job properly. I hate lying to my reg, because I really like him a lot, but the adult and professional in me keeps reminding me that 1) I cannot go around saying to customers that I have crushes on them, because that would be disrespectful to my bf. And I don't go around cheating on my bf behind his back. He knows what I do for a living and I have sworn to him and myself that I would not get personally involved with customers, and 2) the relationship between me and my regular is a BUSINESS relationship and will remain so unless things change and we are both free and willing to move forward into a more personal relationship.

    So basically I told my custy that as long as I am dancing at the club, I won't date anyone I meet in there. Which is true. So perhaps this dancer does have a place in her heart for you, but due to personal and professional reasons, she can only maintain a SC business relationshp with you. Don't take rejection personally. She may really like you. A lot. And she may feel horrible about not telling you ALL the reasons why she really can't date you. But this is her job sweetie. And like I said, unless she changes jobs/becomes a single girl again, she may not be willing to take things further with you on a personal level.

    Just another take on your situation. Sometimes it sucks for us, the dancers, too, but hey rules are rules, and in cases like this, we need to have the maturity to follow them. And ya know, sometimes things are better left a fantasy.

    OMG, what if YOU are my regular? LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Picaresque View Post
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by stant
    Ask yourself how you ended up as her RIL in the first place. Seriously, dating her is unlikely and if by some chance it does happen, you won't be able to deal with it. I have a MUCH better idea...

    Somewhere on SW I remember a thread about a service in NYC called wing-chick or something along those lines. Guys pay these girls to go out with them to help them meet girls in bars and clubs. Tell your ATF girl how you feel about her, but that you know it's doomed and probably a bad idea anyway. Instead, ask her if you can pay her to act as your wing-chick to help you meet someone on reasonably equal footing with you (i.e. not paying for her affection from the get go). ATF girl gets to keep you as a custy and possibly even a friend, and you get what you really want, a girlfriend. In a sense this would be a transformation of her as your ATF to your cupid/wing-chick. My guess is unless you are dumping wads of cash right now, she'll go for the idea.

    I have no real clue if this will work. I've never even heard of it before. Of course if the girls you meet while you are with her sense you are in love with her, your chances of meeting a mate are zippo. This will probably be your biggest obstacle.

    I have a couple female friends (strippers ) who have gone out with me for that very reason. I learned a long time ago that a guy with a hot babe has a better chance of attracting other hot babes than he does alone. It works. That's how I met my ex-fiancee.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    What I sure don't agree with is the posters who say keep spending money and wait for her to do something. Good way to go broke.
    Umm... you call yourself a regular and you say that? What sort of strip club do you frequent that you arent going to spend money there to begin with?? Seriously. There should be no reason to whine about spending your money IN A STRIP CLUB. ON A STRIPPER. Like her or not, in whatever fashion you do, if you're going to go to a strip club and not toss around the cash, you're not helping her or anyone else who works there. Besides, if the cash flow stops, and she really isnt interested in dating you, you've lost her as an ATF as well. So then you're stuck with nada. Seriously. Dont stop being the regular. If she wants you, she will make it clear that she does. Unless, of course, you dont want to be her regular anymore, no matter what the outcome is with the whole dating thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    Besides everyone knows that women like males who take the lead.
    Ummm... no, not always the case.
    Number of times Rickrolled on stage: 6
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Besides everyone knows that women like males who take the lead.
    Not in a strip club. The rules are very different because the women themselves are by and large, very different. Following their lead doesn't mean dumping $1K in a girl's G-string--though spending some money is indeed important (this confers respect at the very least, for the girl and her time and effort, to say nothing of showing that you're not a cheap ass loser like so many of their pseudo-patrons), it means picking up on personal, non-business cues from the dancer--i.e. chemistry, pertinent inquiries, et al--and smoothly capitalizing on those openings to determine real interest or the simply the presence of well-camouflaged SS. This is not nuclear science.

    If you had any success with strippers at all, you would already know all this. Stick around, you might learn something from the masters here, like CP. I know I have.

    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    What I sure don't agree with is the posters who say keep spending money and wait for her to do something. Good way to go broke. Besides everyone knows that women like males who take the lead.
    You misunderstood what CO said. If the gal is still interested in money and you no longer wish to spend it on her, she's obviously leading you somewhere you don't want to go. In which case you probably have the answer to your question, but in case that 1% chance that she might actually like you is still nagging at you...

    We've already agreed to meet OTC, so at this meeting I'll bring up what I want to see happen and she can take it or leave it. If the latter I can just move on.
    Damn, I wish they were all this simple.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    All I have to say is that you are paying a stripper for the fantasy...THE FANTASY! That's all it is unless for some odd reason she asks YOU out. You are a CUSTOMER...
    If everything you try is a sure thing, you aren't taking enough risks. If you never fail, you put a limit on the degree to which you can succeed. In short, the only way to win big is to risk losing

  22. #22
    Sitri
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Squeek, click, whirr.... It's been so long since I have been in the forum I feel like the tin man opening up..... the tin also protects against flames.

    Anyway, you can't buy love, but you can buy company. The whole issue is negotiation. If you are looking for free true love, Woodstock III may be coming. Be direct and honest. If you think she needs money than offer the money and name the conditions.

    If that doesn't work, fly to Russia and get a girl friend there. You need to really project yourself and her ahead a few years when the infatuation wears off. Find a woman that you can see enjoying her company 5 or 10 years from now when you have penile disfunction from old age. The last thing you want is to make a snap decision.

    Remember Meatloaf's song. "And now I'm praying for the end of time so I can end my time with you.."

    Hey, Meatloaf is in Florida and Mississipi in September... Who wants to go?

  23. #23
    Sitri
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Don't get me wrong, take the risk, go in skidding. But also realize that hitting the wall hurts. Do what will make you happy for a long time.

    I have made a million mistakes and will make a million more. Hopefully, most of them will be different mistakes.

    If I wanted to date a dancer, it would probably be based on providing security in the form of money and safety and not based on a naive view of love. I think most people on this site would agree a "jaded" approach to sex and love is prevalent in the club. A realistic appraisal of money serves as the foundation of moving ahead if you are already a customer.

    Good luck.

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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    I would like to transform the nature of the relationship with my ATF from being her customer to being her boyfriend. What's the best way to go about doing this?
    OK, What you are really asking here is "How do I get a girlto like me"? The answer is the same as it was in jr. high; you don't, just be yourself, she will either like you or she won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by RegularInLove
    Being a "nice gir"l she is not exactly a top earner and, hence, is a bit hard up for cash. What's the best way to take $$$ out of the equation?
    If you intend to keep visiting her at the club you don't take money out of the equation. If you really care about this woman you need to respect her and her need to earn when she is at work.

    Like I said before, she's just a girl, albiet, a girl wearing a g-string. Just ask her out and get it over with. Who knows what will happen....worse case, hitting the wall only stings for a few weeks, until the next girl comes along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
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    Default Re: How to Transform Relationship with ATF?

    RIL;

    I am actually one of the dancers that has dated a customer, so this advice is definitely worth having.

    She might be interested, but feel a little unsure, especially if she doesn't date customers a lot. Me, I was really uncomfortable saying "yes" because of sheer inertia - you get so used to saying "no" all the time. So I what I think you should do is keep going to her club, and spend a decent amount of money - to do anything else is just disrespectful. No dancer wants to go out with a guy who just rejected her pitch. So just go, spend some money, don't pressure her too much and don't seem TOO eager. That's just not cool and will make you seem like a stalker. No dancer wants to date a stalker and nobody at all wants to go out with someone who seems like he might just spend the whole date pressuring you for something - whether it is to have sex or just for the next date. Maybe bring her a few gifts, just so that she feels special. Once you have spent enough money she will DEFINITELY want to go out with you. All the more because you just said she wasn't very successful - so she'll really remember you. You're not just one of a crowd. Now you march back into that club and open a credit card. Show her how real men spend money.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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