View Poll Results: Can companies make demands on how employees act on their personal time?

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Thread: You smoke? You're fired!

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    Default You smoke? You're fired!

    More companies are taking action against employees who smoke off-duty, and, in an extreme trend that some call troubling, some are now firing or banning the hiring of workers who light up even on their own time.

    The outright bans raise new questions about how far companies can go in regulating workers' behavior when they are off the clock. The crackdown is coming in part as a way to curb soaring health care costs, but critics say companies are violating workers' privacy rights. The zero-tolerance policies are coming as more companies adopt smoke-free workplaces.

    • Weyco, a medical benefits provider based in Okemos, Mich., this year banned employees from smoking on their own time. Employees must submit to random tests that detect if someone has smoked. They must also agree to searches of briefcases, purses or other belongings if company officials suspect tobacco or other banned substances have been brought on-site. Those who smoke may be suspended or fired.
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/compan...oke-usat_x.htm


    And legal experts fear companies will try to control other aspects of employees' off-duty lifestyle, a trend that is already happening. Some companies are firing, suspending or charging higher insurance premiums to workers who are overweight, have high cholesterol or participate in risky activities.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    If its a stipulation for hire,i have no problem with it.

    When i had a full size restaurant,i had alot of highschool kids that worked for us.
    If they didnt maintain a C average in school,they couldnt work for me until the grades came up.
    The school,the whole area,and all the kids knew it.If you didnt have at least a C,no need to apply.

    Im sure those big companies are thinking the same thing i was.
    Its my fuckin company,I make the rules within the rules,dont like it,see ya!

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    Veteran Member Heaven777's Avatar
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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    what's next, are they going to tell me what I can bring for lunch?? "Excuse me, but is that a ... SNICKERS bar in your bag!? ...I'm going to have to confiscate that." I'm sorry but I think break time should be used for whatever kind of break an employee wants to take. I do think that employers have the right to hire people based on all kinds of different stipulations...but this seems extreme.
    If everything you try is a sure thing, you aren't taking enough risks. If you never fail, you put a limit on the degree to which you can succeed. In short, the only way to win big is to risk losing

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heaven777
    what's next, are they going to tell me what I can bring for lunch?? "Excuse me, but is that a ... SNICKERS bar in your bag!? ...I'm going to have to confiscate that." I'm sorry but I think break time should be used for whatever kind of break an employee wants to take. I do think that employers have the right to hire people based on all kinds of different stipulations...but this seems extreme.
    They already do.
    You cant bring vodka to most lunch rooms.

    If you were a janitor in a muslim mosque,im guessing they dont want you to bring pigs feet or smoked pork rinds in as a afternoon snack.

    Im guessing the Lung association building frowns upon its employees saying how bad it is to smoke,then have people wade thru the smokers out side at the front door just to get in.Kinda looks bad.

    If your on stage wearing a thong that sports the name of the compitition club down the block,your club may frown on that also.

    If your a priest and you have a gay pride button on your frock,im guessing you can be expelled from the monistary.

    Ok wait,that last one was a bad example.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    If its a stipulation for hire,i have no problem with it.

    When i had a full size restaurant,i had alot of highschool kids that worked for us.
    If they didnt maintain a C average in school,they couldnt work for me until the grades came up.
    The school,the whole area,and all the kids knew it.If you didnt have at least a C,no need to apply.

    Im sure those big companies are thinking the same thing i was.
    Its my fuckin company,I make the rules within the rules,dont like it,see ya!
    They basically changed the rules on their employees. It doesn't seem fair to suddenly come to work one day and find out that your job is on the line for something other than your performance. This is just one of many pet peeves I have with Corporate America lately. Seems it's all about looks and being politically correct rather than attracting and keeping the best talent you can.
    Would you like it if you suddenly came to work one day and was told you had to quit drinking.
    After all it’s also a health care risk also eating at fast food restaurants.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Element
    They basically changed the rules on their employees. It doesn't seem fair to suddenly come to work one day and find out that your job is on the line for something other than your performance. This is just one of many pet peeves I have with Corporate America lately. Seems it's all about looks and being politically correct rather than attracting and keeping the best talent you can.
    Would you like it if you suddenly came to work one day and was told you had to quit drinking.
    After all it’s also a health care risk also eating at fast food restaurants.
    Yes, well, attracting and keeping the best talent is expensive you know.

    It's called low hanging fruit.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Element
    And legal experts fear companies will try to control other aspects of employees' off-duty lifestyle, a trend that is already happening. Some companies are firing, suspending or charging higher insurance premiums to workers who are overweight, have high cholesterol or participate in risky activities.
    I have no doubt that they will. Personally, I'm sick of people trying to "help" me for my own good. What's next, are they going to fire people that walk too fast with scissors?

    As I've said many times, good intentions do not justify taking people's freedoms away or validate bad policies.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Yes, well, attracting and keeping the best talent is expensive you know.

    It's called low hanging fruit.
    I agree however my point is that, when I apply for a job and when I'm hired by an employer, I should be held accountable for the performance of that job. That's it.


    But since we are on the company’s expenses perhaps the best solution to this dilemma is to have the smoker pay for the difference in insurance costs. Is it fair that a smoker pays more than a drinker who takes sick days (and is less productive on others) because of hangovers? No. But until insurance companies figure out how to deal with the drinker, the smoker is going to be treated a little less fairly. But the difference should not have to be covered by an employer who decides to generously pay for its employees' health insurance.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    what about the 300lb flight attendent???

    Should the company be able to fire her,suspend her till the weight is off,or reassign her to a different job because she cant squeeze her fat ass down the center isle of a plane?

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    re the 300lb flight attendent, there is already a similar issue now working its way through the New Jersey courts over the matter of an Atlantic City Casino being able to fire waitresses is their appearance declines below an arbitrary standard. Gain 10 pounds, get 5 years older without plastic surgery, and you're outa here ! However, this arguably skirts federal laws covering age discrimination.

    On the subject of health insurance risk, and the Weyco precedent of firing smokers who were already employees, who were instructed to quit smoking or face being fired, and who later failed a nicotine test, a real 'slippery slope' mess is brewing if this precedent is allowed to stand. Corporations are chomping at the bit to apply the same principle to gay males, skydivers, and any other groups which have statistically high health risk factors. This 'slippery slope' will ultimately lead to employers dropping health insurance coverage as an employee fringe benefit, leaving health insurance to privately purchased insurance policies with premiums commeasurate with actual risk factors - - - or National Health Insurance.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    If your talking about a "we the people"goverment job,i agree,its bullshit.

    But if your talking about a private company,i think they have the right to set standards that reflect the image the company wants to project.
    Kinda like strip clubs not hiring entertainers in wheelchairs for example or health spas suspending fitness instructors who gain 50 lbs.

    If you dont fit the standard or cant comply to company regulations,you have two choices,look for a new job,or comply.

    This reminds me of that guy who wanted to be a hooters waitress and they made him wear the orange shorts and everything.

    Whenever you set a new or different limit,you will always have someone ready to cry to a lawyer and contest it.

    The only NON bullshit complaint i can see about this is the nicotine.

    Did the company ban the transfer device(ie cigs)or did they ban the drug nicotine??
    I guess i would be pissed to if i stopped smoking for a few months,then got fired because i was chewing nicorett gum to calm the beast.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    The Weyco policy cited higher health costs. It did not cite worker productivity.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    what about the 300lb flight attendent???

    Should the company be able to fire her,suspend her till the weight is off,or reassign her to a different job because she cant squeeze her fat ass down the center isle of a plane?
    Yes they should. Flight Attendants have to have FAA training to assist people in evacuating the plane in an emergency and handling other situations. A 300 lb. Flight Attendant can't do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    If your talking about a "we the people"goverment job,i agree,its bullshit.

    But if your talking about a private company,i think they have the right to set standards that reflect the image the company wants to project.
    What if the "image" the company wants to project is one of white's only? Should they be allowed to deny employment to minorities?
    Kinda like strip clubs not hiring entertainers in wheelchairs for example or health spas suspending fitness instructors who gain 50 lbs.

    If you dont fit the standard or cant comply to company regulations,you have two choices,look for a new job,or comply.

    This reminds me of that guy who wanted to be a hooters waitress and they made him wear the orange shorts and everything.
    Different standard all together. Let's face it, men don't go to Hooters for the food, despite what they tell their wives. In those situations, appearance is central to doing the job.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Smoking sucks and is unhealthy. But instead of always using punitive measures to change peoples behavior, providing help and counseling on a large scale along with incentives for quitting should be initiated.

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    What if the "image" the company wants to project is one of white's only? Should they be allowed to deny employment to minorities?
    well it depends imo.
    For a goverment job i would insist its wrong.
    If i were a woman of color and owned a african clothing and hair store in downtown harlem,i dont think i should be forced to hire a white gay guy from san fran.
    Im going to hire people of color.
    What would you do??

    Different standard all together. Let's face it, men don't go to Hooters for the food, despite what they tell their wives. In those situations, appearance is central to doing the job.
    so because guys lie to thier wives(and dont got the money for a strip club)its ok for workplace sexual discrimination??
    ya lost me there??
    Thats all cake and eat it too and ya cant have it both ways.(unless of course your a woman and we are discussing americans and thier rights )

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    Smoking sucks and is unhealthy.
    so does mano-e-mano homosexual sex according to CDC stats(literally )

    But instead of always using punitive measures to change peoples behavior, providing help and counseling on a large scale along with incentives for quitting should be initiated
    How much do we have to pay someone like me to stop smoking??
    (my mom offered me 1000 dollars when i was 21 and i didnt take it,so please bid higher)
    How much do we offer the gay men to go straight?
    The skydiver to stay grounded?
    etc etc etc (Yul Brenner impression)

    The "help and counseling"and the "incentives"cost more then the freekin insurance to a company!!!!!
    The company might as well let them smoke unfiltereds at thier desks.

    Are you a dem????

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    But if your talking about a private company,i think they have the right to set standards that reflect the image the company wants to project.
    And how does someone smoking on their own time reflect the image the company wants to project.
    What they felt having black workers reflected poorly on the companies image or perhaps a certain type of religion.
    Is this also their right?

    I understand that employers need to have the right to determine who they hire/retain for very valid business reasons and I support that.

    I don't see how whether one smokes on their own time is relevant to the person's suitability for employment anymore than their skin color or sexual preferences are.

    I mean the argument (which I believe is fictitious) has been made that smokers cost the company money in terms of insurance. Well, being a gay male makes one more likely than a hetero male to get aids and require expensive, long term medical care. Should employers then have a right to know the sexual orientation of employees? Should employers have the right to require their gay male employees to strip down and bend over so their anus can be inspected for tearing as proof they aren't having anal sex?

    Blacks are shown to be more susceptible to various illnesses/diseases at a younger age than many other races which could cost the health care system more, should this be a reason to discard laws against racial discrimination in hiring practices?

    We routinely make exceptions to an employer's ability to hire/fire on a whim or predjudice, but we do allow employers to discriminate on the basis of a person being unsuitable for a position.

    This get's back my point, I don't see how a person being a smoker or not on their own time is a valid business concern.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Default Re: You smoke? You're fired!

    The health issue (as with any group that can be PROVEN to have a higher risk of health effects) can easily be taken care of with premiums. Life insurance DOES cost more if you're a smoker...maybe health insurance should too. Should gay matter? I dunno, but if it does, then the promiscuity of all people (gay and straight) should too...so let's not messy this discussion

    For me, I HATE tobacco products...but I hate a company "searching" my body for substances I use recreationally. Unless I come to work stoned or drunk, PLEASE STAY OUT OF MY PEE. With tobacco, however...I see companies forced to make a special class of worker - one that gets more breaks, has special "smokers' areas" defined that are hardly ever empty, and often you see 1 person going to smoke and bringing 3 friends with them. THAT is a problem for me as business owner - it's called lost time, lost productivity and LOST dollars. THAT needs to stop. If you're addicted to alcohol, you still don't get to drink at work...why do smokers get to light up at work? Why can't I (a different cigarette, but still ...)?

    Bottom line: No testing unless it affects the job. Taking extra breaks or messing up company space (or requesting a special smokers area or smellying up the doorway used by everyone) IS a violation, and needs to be handled. Come to work "high" on any substance...then maybe we got a problem (clients tell me I shoot the best pics stoned...but I never am at work). Other than that...stay outta my way!

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