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Thread: Strip Club PAC?

  1. #1
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Strip Club PAC?

    I debated whether this fit better here or one of the other forums, but since the really smart SWers post in poo, here goes.

    I've mentioned before that I've never been impressed with the business management skills of most strip club owners. So this thread

    Missouri kills strip clubs and quick

    got me to thinking (I know, a dangerous thing). Why aren't strip club owners more proactive in their dealings with the government? From what I can tell, the traditional model is this: Government passes new stripclub law. Club owners challenge law on free-speach grounds and try to drag it out in court...forever. But might it not be cheaper and more cost-effective to be in the state capitols and city halls trying to keep these laws from getting passed in the first place? "But Destiny, strip clubs aren't very popular with most people". Yeah, well cigarette makers aren't very popular either and their products kill people. They don't let that stop them from lobbying and conducting PR campaigns. As far as I know, no one ever died from a lap dance. Why don't strip clubs join together and hire lobbyists and PR people? Hell companies like Wal-Mart, when they get bad press, they increase their spending in those areas. Is there a trade group for strip clubs? If there is, it's not doing a very good job.

    Well, enough pondering the important issues of the day. Time to take the dog and kid to the park and run them until one collaspes from exhaustion. Then its off to work. Have a great sat. everyone.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  2. #2
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    I offer my company as the PR/Advertising firm for the industry....great idea D.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    The major problem with the concept of a Strip Club PAC, Strip Club sponsored charity events, and/or any ventures by strip club owners/dancers into mainstream politics and society, is that everybody - politicians of both major parties, mainstream media, citizens in general - considers any official association with strip clubs as the equivalent of an official association with the adult entertainment industry. As such, no matter how much 'good' any Strip Club PAC, charity event, or other venture into mainstream politics and society might actually accomplish, every politician will run and hide from the possibility of such an official association with a facet of the adult entertainment industry for fear of future consequences of disclosure.

    For example, here is how Hilary Clinton quickly disassociated herself with a big political contributor once the possibility arose of a public disclosure ...

    "Among the more notable names on the list (of possible witnesses at the Clinton campaign manager's trial) is a Chicago businessman and Democratic fund-raiser who played a role in arranging the gala, James Levin. Mr. Levin's involvement in Mrs. Clinton's campaign caused some embarrassment after it was disclosed that he once owned a strip club". (from the NY Sun story)

    The only tried and true historical method of Strip Clubs gaining a sympathetic ear at city hall was via back door payola. However, after the recent high exposure mainstream media coverage of big payoffs by a Las Vegas Strip Club owner to city councilmen, many local politicians are now scared to even get involved on a back door basis because of the possibility of future mainstream media disclosure doing more harm to their careers than the payola was worth. As such, for virtually the first time, Strip Clubs now have essentially zero leverage with politicians regardless of how much PAC money might potentially flow in exchange for official political support, and also now have next to zero leverage even in regard to 'unofficial' support or benign neglect on the part of said local politicians in exchange for 'unofficial' payola.

    IMHO as long as Hollywood and the mainstream media continue to portray Strip Clubs as a stereotype ... i.e. that clubowners are sharks, that dancers are drug addicted, thieving whores, and that strip club customers are sleazeballs ... then there is no chance that strip clubs or dancers are ever going to get a 'fair shake' at city hall or in a court of law, no matter how well organized or how well financed they might become.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-14-2005 at 01:03 PM.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    While your portrayal is correct...I say we need to act anyway and SHOW our industry has a brain and heart (among other parts not covered by panties and pasties )

    if we get out there, make ourselves known in an organized, legal, effective and public way and REFUSE to be ignored or pigeonholed (and yes, much of the time this means working "their way") we will eventually get noticed.

    Just like the moderate/BALANCED environmental/sustainability movement is gaining traction where the old guard extremist movement never could. Organization, strategy and application.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    Good luck.

    My experience is that few dancers will stick up for themselves. Nor are they willing to let themselves be known as a dancer, as such a move would make.

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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    There's one in Ohio--BACE. They distributed a lot of information to the clubs about HB 23, and also got some clubs to agree to a certain level of self-governing. I don't know how successful they'll be since now the bill's heading to the senate here.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    f we get out there, make ourselves known in an organized, legal, effective and public way and REFUSE to be ignored or pigeonholed (and yes, much of the time this means working "their way") we will eventually get noticed.
    True that doing this will get strip clubs noticed, but the actual results achieved by strip clubs 'getting publicly noticed' by politicians and average citizens may not be what you expect.

    There's one in Ohio--BACE. They distributed a lot of information to the clubs about HB 23, and also got some clubs to agree to a certain level of self-governing. I don't know how successful they'll be since now the bill's heading to the senate here.
    The question which needs to be asked, but which can probably never be answered, is whether or not the existance of BACE is actually increasing the probability that OHIO HB 23 (a nasty proposed anti-dance club law which would apply statewide) will be passed into law by those politicians who have now taken more 'notice' of strip clubs thanks to BACE publicity. On the other hand, had BACE not existed and had Ohio strip clubs kept a low profile and stayed out of the public view of average citizens and politicians, would HB 23 have died quietly in house committee without ever being sent to the senate ?

    I'm going to reiterate my point with a 'parallel' example. In the past, certain strip clubs have conducted charity fundraisers to raise money for needy and worthy local causes. However, when the money raised by strip clubs was presented to the mainstream charity in charge of the worthy cause, those donations were REFUSED. This tells you that the potential negative publicity consequences of a strip club being in any way associated with any mainstream organization is more important than the money, period. This tells you that all publicity is BAD publicity from the standpoint of Strip Clubs and dancers.

    The reason that I'm being so adamant is that I don't want to see dancers organize themselves out of business given today's political realities ! I'm going to be politically incorrect and state that the 'Strip Club cause', unlike gay rights or other liberal causes, is NOT going to find any actual support from the ACLU, liberal judges, liberal politicians, credible political activists groups etc. It has already been tried in a few situations, and in every case the 'Strip Club cause' has been left standing alone after the ACLU refused active support, after the liberal judges ruled against strip clubs (ex. ERIE vs Paps), after unofficially supportive local politicians have been run out of office, and after political activist group members have called for zoning changes to keep local strip clubs from lowering their property values. Strip Clubs are considered to be a negative influence on society by virtually everybody. Therefore any publicity generated towards strip clubs only reminds local politicians and registered voters that something should be 'done' about those strip clubs. Supporting an active 'Strip Club cause', while in the spirit of healthy liberal protest, may actually have the real world effect of costing you your job or cutting your earnings potential in half.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-15-2005 at 06:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    Most states already have similar laws.
    The only question is will they enforce the laws.
    However there have been some cases of strip club owners successfully over turning a new bill.

    DANCE CLUB DISTANCE RULES STRUCK DOWN
    HARTFORD, CT – Federal District Judge Warren W. Eginton has granted a motion for a summary judgment overturning the town of Berlin, Connecticut’s local ordinance restricting adult businesses. Norman Pattis and Kimberly Coleman Waisonovitz, attorneys for Centerfolds exotic dance club, successfully argued that the Berlin ordinance, which bans physical contact between club patrons and performers, would make illegal even “innocent” contact such as inadvertent brushing when two people walk past each other.
    Club attorneys also challenged Berlin’s ban on private booths and cubicles, lap dances and other simulated sexual activity, and from early news accounts it appears Judge Eginton ruled that Berlin’s ban on simulated sex acts is unconstitutional.
    The prohibition on lap dances and similar contact is “irrational,” attorneys Pattis and Waisonovitz argued, because it bans behavior protected by the First Amendment and because it fails to distinguish between illegal acts and simulated acts that violate no known laws.
    Although one district court judge’s opinion is not binding on another’s, Judge Eginton’s ruling has discouraged other communities with similar bans on physical contact. For example, Milford, Connecticut has an ordinance much like the one struck down in Berlin and also faces a lawsuit by a local dance club.
    From Frank Juliano, Connecticut Post, 12/31/04
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    Although one district court judge’s opinion is not binding on another’s, Judge Eginton’s ruling has discouraged other communities with similar bans on physical contact. For example, Milford, Connecticut has an ordinance much like the one struck down in Berlin and also faces a lawsuit by a local dance club.
    Based on the Supreme Court's ERIE vs. Paps precedent, this liberal judge's opinion regarding 'first amendment' protections being valid reasons to strike down this ordinance won't fly if if the Town of Berlin pursues this in a higher court. The CT strip clubs have won a temporary reprieve, but have not won the 'war'. I would argue that all that has been accomplished is that the strip clubs in question have become an official 'thorn in the side' of local politicians and the target of a great deal of local publicity, which will eventually result in a very strict ordinance being enacted and upheld in retribution. It will be very interesting to see what happens when this case gets kicked up to the circuit court.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    Right now, the wrong generation holds office. I believe when Generation X starts taking office and Generation Y starts taking office, you will see a far more liberal stance on strip clubs and the like.

    We grew up with porn in the video store and the hotel - so we don't see what is so wrong with it.

    Right now, it is more the baby boomers from the 1950's Leave It To Beaver generation making the rules.

  11. #11
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Right now, the wrong generation holds office. I believe when Generation X starts taking office and Generation Y starts taking office, you will see a far more liberal stance on strip clubs and the like.

    We grew up with porn in the video store and the hotel - so we don't see what is so wrong with it.

    Right now, it is more the baby boomers from the 1950's Leave It To Beaver generation making the rules.
    Deogol, as I was reading the responses to this post, I was thinking the exact same thing you posted. I definitely agree, visiting a stripclub doesn't have the stigma with the younger generations that is does with the older. When you hear about Ben Affleck in a club or some of the hip-hop types, nobody even really notices. If you hear about a bunch of guys going to a convention in Las Vegas, you pretty much assume theyr'e going visit a club. Hell, the Dallas Convention & Visitor's Bureau has a section on strip clubs on their website.

    Funny, but I found myself agreeing with both discretedancer and Melonie, to a certain extent. Perhaps PR campaign was not the right term for what I was thinking. I'm not really suggesting that a bunch of dancers hold a bikini car wash to raise money for the United Way. What I'm thinking is more along the lines of quiet lobbying as a proactive measure. The first time I ever considered dancing was when I saw an article in the paper about the taxes paid on alcohol. I forget the exact number, but probably 7 out of the top 10 taxpayers were stripclubs. That's a point that could be effectively made to politicians. "Hey, you pass this law, we will drag this out in court costing you a ton of legal fees, and if you win, you'll lose a ton of this tax revenue". Personally, I think stripclubs should ask the lawmakers to pass a special stripclub tax, maybe $5 for everyone that walks in the door. Why? To get the politicians hooked on the money it would bring in. Tax money is more addictive than crack to politicians. Once you got them hooked, they'd do anything to keep the clubs in business.

    Also, don't forget that another purpose of trade groups is to do studies to give politicians the "cover" they need. Such a group could sponser a research study by some consitutional lawyer showing why burdensome regulations of the business don't pass the 1st Amendment test. Then politicians could point to that study and say, "gee, our hands are tied, we have to uphold the constitution." Whenever a new law is proposed, the group could trot out some single mom strippers and say, look, I get no child support, you've cut welfare spending, AFDC, WIC, what the hell do you expect me to do?

    While everything Melonie said is true, could most of it not also be said about the cigarette business? I know the stripclub business isn't that popular, but again it's never killed anyone.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  12. #12
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strip Club PAC?

    While everything Melonie said is true, could most of it not also be said about the cigarette business? I know the stripclub business isn't that popular, but again it's never killed anyone.
    Legally speaking, no. Despite the destructive effects, cigarettes are a legal product and the cigarette manufacturers and sellers are considered to be mainstream businesses. On the other hand, the stereotype strip club is essentially considered quasi-illegal (i.e. prostitution, drugs) and strip club owners are essentially considered to be quasi-illegal as well (i.e. Mafia, escort services).

    Unfortunately, where the politics of the 'sex' business are concerned, you can't afford to confuse the issues with actual facts, or (God forbid) logical arguments !

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