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Thread: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

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    Default Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Newsweek says Koran desecration report is wrong


    Newsweek magazine said on Sunday it erred in a May 9 report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to the victims of deadly Muslim protests sparked by the article.
    Editor Mark Whitaker said the magazine inaccurately reported that U.S. military investigators had confirmed that personnel at the detention facility in Cuba had flushed the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

    The report sparked angry and violent protests across the Muslim world from Afghanistan, where 16 were killed and more than 100 injured, to Pakistan to Indonesia to Gaza. In the past week it was condemned in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Malaysia and by the Arab League.

    On Sunday, Afghan Muslim clerics threatened to call for a holy war against the United States.

    "We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.
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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Newsweek editor Mark Whitman: "Whatever facts we got wrong, we apologize for. I've expressed regret for the loss of life and the violence that put American troops in harm's way. I'm getting a lot of angry e-mail about that, and I understand it."

    I guess whether that constitutes a real apology, or the moral equivalent of "Whoops, my bad," after running a car through a crowd of people, depends upon the listener. It sounds less than fully satisfactory to me.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Ya know, Newsweek didn't do the killing. They simply reported a story they thought was true at the time.

    If a bunch of fiends are going to get up in arms over such a thing then 1) perhaps the world is a better place without them 2) People might think twice before rioting over a newspaper article.

    Of course, in those parts of the world, it is still Newsweek's fault that a bunch of people flipped out and started killing folk. One cannot be responsibile over there you know. It has to be the bad american's fault.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    The car driving analogy was bad.

    And I agree that people need to be responsible for their actions. If I know that someone is insanely jealous, and I feed him a fake story that sends him into an abusive rage, who's responsible? Well, he's responsible for his own actions. But I surely bear some responsibility for my own actions, too, in maliciously feeding his psychosis.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    That's why I put, "results in" and not, "responsible for". The people that physically did the killing are ultimately responsible for their crimes. However, that does not mean that Newsweek is blameless. My own thought is that like most people in the media, the people at Newsweek were pre-disposed to think the worst about the American Military. Factor in the excitement at getting a, "scoop" and this is what you get.

    Newsweek says Koran desecration report is wrong

    Newsweek's Whitaker said that when the magazine first heard of the Koran allegation from its source, staff approached two Defense Department officials. One declined to comment, while the other challenged a different aspect of the May 9 story but did not dispute the Koran charge.
    Not disputing the Koran charge is not the same as confirming it. Perhaps the source didn't dispute it because he did not know one way or the other? Sheesh, how did these people ever pass Journalism 101?

    The magazine said other news organizations had already aired charges of Koran desecration based "only on the testimony of detainees." What other organizations? Al-Jazeera?

    Also, I see that Newsweek has retreated to the "Dan Rather" defense:
    Whitaker told Reuters that Newsweek did not know if the reported toilet incident involving the Koran ever occurred. "As to whether anything like this happened, we just don't know," he said in an interview. "We're not saying it absolutely happened but we can't say that it absolutely didn't happen either." Whatever happened to the idea that newspaper or magazine only print what they know to be true? And newspeople wonder why the general public holds them in such low regard.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    And even if it never happened, and had never been reported, something else would have. To the evil, everyting is pretext, and to those who hate democracy, everything is a pretext for demanding death to America.

    We've reached the point that we are not only sensitive about making sure we do nothing to offend our enemies; we are now worried about squelching unsubstantiated rumors that we might have done something to offend them.

    Maybe we should wake up every morning and broadcast a world-wide statement in Arabic that we sincerely and contritely apologize in advance for anything we may or may not do, true or false, that might conceivably offend the Believers.

    Beginning with an apology for our own existence.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    The issue is being responsible in what you say. For instance, at one point in nice white democratic Christian America, it would have been easy to say, "That black guy had sex with a white woman," to have that guy ending up dead in the woods. And of course, the lynchers should have borne responsibility, and if there is an Ultimate Justice, they'll have to answer for it.

    But the person who said those words bears a responsibility. It's not just tiptoeing around others' sensibilities - it's being sensible and responsible for what you say. Newsweek was irresponsible, and deaths resulted. That's not a nice thing for Newsweek, and not something that they should just shrug their shoulders at and say, "Oops."

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    JZ....when will you learn that balance has little space available in politics or journalism? You don't really think people should be responsible, take care with what they say and do, consider consequences and verify they don't slander (or is it libel) the brave (if overzealous) soldiers on the bleeding edge of this confusing, disastorous, and misguided experiment in Iraq.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    JZ....when will you learn that balance has little space available in politics or journalism?
    Hope springs eternal. I have to ignore Massachusetts and Kansas to keep it going, though.

    You don't really think people should be responsible, take care with what they say and do, consider consequences and verify they don't slander (or is it libel)
    Libel. As accurately noted in "Spiderman," libel is written ("L" - libel/literary). Slander is verbal ("S" - slander/spoken).
    the brave (if overzealous) soldiers
    and Marines.
    The vast majority of them are doing their job, which is, by necessity, how to overwhelm and/or kill their opponent. Most of them would rather not be facing bullets and car bombs. Any overzealousness is more accurately attributed to the leaders who put them there.
    on the bleeding edge of this confusing, disastorous, and misguided experiment in Iraq.
    I don't necessarily disagree with those adjectives, although I probably have stronger hopes for a positive outcome. But that discussion probably results in thread drift.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    They simply reported a story they thought was true at the time.
    They knew it was demonstrably weak on facts and they printed it anyway. It reeks of agenda-driven quasi-journalism just like the Rathergate episode.

    Shameless, completely avoidable and without excuse.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    The Newsweek story was reported by Michael Isikoff, who was reporting from a government source who initially confirmed the story (which has been floating around town as an apocryphal story for some time). I know Michael; we've worked together on national stories before where he has used material I've given him. He's always been fair and direct with me. He was also the Newsweek reporter who first broke the Monica story.

    This is a bit of a tragic situation because the government source who confirmed the story later backed away from it, leaving Michael out in the cold. This can happen when a story gets a lot of play and criticism. The government official, once identified, would almost certainly be out of a job.

    I don't know if Michael confirmed this with an additional source. For something this explosive, it's pretty much SOP to verify it with a secondary source, either in or out of government. The editors may have wanted to run with the story and not required this.

    It is certainly a tragic situation on every level.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Here a thing - the results, although terrible, are not, strictly speaking, the point. Journalists are meant to have ETHICS. This is not a matter of whether or not Newsweek is responsible for inciting riots - that is a stupid argument, because (obviously) a news report is unlikely to start a riot unless the grounds for the riot were pretty ripe in the first place. It's about the journalists duties to their readers, as well as the world around them.

    If a bunch of fiends are going to get up in arms over such a thing then 1) perhaps the world is a better place without them 2) People might think twice before rioting over a newspaper article.
    I saw plenty of people get pretty worked up over articles regarding 9/11. That is a ridiculous simplification. People are not getting worked up over an article - they are getting worked up over actions that they believed happened, at the time (yeah, that sounds pretty weak, doesn't it?) People have this silly idea that what they read in the newspaper isn't entertainment - that they are reading stuff that happened. Call them naive, but there is a public trust involved. Publishing something that you know MIGHT be, COULD be, false breaches that trust, and that has repurcussions.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    ...there is a public trust involved. Publishing something that you know MIGHT be, COULD be, false breaches that trust, and that has repurcussions.
    And that's my problem with Newsweek's so-called retraction: "We're not saying it absolutely happened but we can't say that it absolutely didn't happen either." Well when did that become the standard for what supposedly mainstream magazine published. If you don't have proof it happened, you don't equivocate, you issue a retraction.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    On Sunday, Newsweek backed away from the report and offered its sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst.(Full story)

    But Muslims said they suspected that pressure from Washington was behind the magazine's climbdown, Reuters reported Monday.

    We will not be deceived by this, Islamic cleric Mullah Sadullah Abu Aman told Reuters in the northern Afghan province of Badakhshan.

    This is a decision by America to save itself. It comes because of American pressure. Even an ordinary illiterate peasant understands this and won't accept it.
    Source


    As expected. Some people don't want peace.
    As I’ve said even if it never happened, and had never been reported, something else would have.
    However I’m not excusing Newsweek’s article it was still irresponsible.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) A conservative media watchdog group, Accuracy in Media, said in a news release that blood is on the hands of Newsweek magazine for the story. AIM editor Cliff Kincaid expressed incredulity that "nobody at Newsweek has been fired or even reprimanded."

    Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman was asked whether the Pentagon could say definitively that U.S. personnel never threw a Koran in a toilet at Guantanamo.

    You know, I never get into the business of saying never, Whitman said. What I'm saying is that this allegation that Newsweek made ... about Koran desecration is demonstrably false. And there have thus far been no credible allegations of willful Koran desecration.

    The Pentagon made available a January 2003 memo setting out rules for handling and inspecting of detainee Korans at Guantanamo. It said U.S. personnel must ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas.

    Last edited by Element; 05-17-2005 at 02:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Superstitions/rumors are very popular commodities amongst illiterate society and almost all the Muslim countries having 50-80% illiterate/half-educated devout Muslim populations are thus naturally fertile ground for speedy propagation of such rumours. When misinformation is passed around orally it tends to become embellished to say the least. In this case the original written source that caused the rioting was printed in an American publication... making it become all the more credible... and the result more deadly and harmful to America. Unfortunately, this story will never go away. No matter how many times Newsweek disavows it, no matter how many times the US government denies it... it will remain true in Muslim eyes forever.

    I'm reminded of the FALSE story that has remained in circulation in Muslim countries since the mid-1980's that Neil Armstrong supposedly converted to Islam (after hearing [which is impossible on the airless Moon] the Adhan/Azaan/Aazan/Athan [many spellings for the Islamic call to prayer]. This story has gone around and around and around the Islamic world and no matter how often denied and proved false will never go away. Other stories claim people such as Jaques Cousteau, Michael Jackson, etc. became Muslim. Another hoax says that Christian apologists discovered the Prophet Muhammad’s name on a piece of wood from Noah’s ark (found in Russia), and the Prophet Muhammad’s name was foretold in Hindu Scriptures, etc.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    It seems to me that the Newsweek story was only irresponsible if the events reported never happened. I'm not entirely convinced that they didn't; in fact, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that the events in question did occur.

    I can certainly imagine a scenario in which government officials would pressure Newsweek to retract the story, even if it were entirely factual. Who's to say that didn't happen?

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    I doubt Newsweek would retract an actual true story because the government asked them to. In fact, it seems like they are blaming Bush for the riots.

    Do Muslims respect other religions? It seems that there is a double standard:
    Muslims riot and kill when their holy book is supposedly offended, but in contrast when Buddhists, Jews, and Christians are violated they don't go crazy. Some of the more notorious reported incidents of Muslims abusing Christian symbols include the trashing of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem in 2002; and the desecration of Maronite churches in Damour, Lebanon in 1976.

    In the Damour episode, Yasser Arafat's PLO killed more than 500 of the Christian town's inhabitants before turning it into a stronghold, and used the interior of the St. Elias church for a shooting range, according to published accounts.

    In another incident:
    "In October 2000, after Israeli troops evacuated the city of Nablus as a peacemaking gesture, scores of Palestinians stormed into the Joseph's Tomb compound and destroyed the site believed to be the burial place of the biblical patriarch Joseph – the son of Jacob who was sold by his brothers into slavery and later became the viceroy of Egypt.

    The 1993 Oslo Accords put Joseph's Tomb under Israeli jurisdiction, but on Oct. 7, 2000, then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak ordered a unilateral retreat, based on a Palestinian agreement to protect the site.

    Within hours of the Israeli withdrawal, smoke was seen billowing from the tomb as an Arab crowd burned Jewish prayer books and other holy objects. Palestinians used pickaxes, hammers and later bulldozers to tear apart the stone building. The dome of the tomb was painted green, and a mosque was subsequently erected in its place.

    Rabbi Hillel Lieberman, who lived nearby, headed by foot to the tomb when he heard of its desecration, hoping, his family said, to save any Torah scrolls or other holy objects that might have been left intact.

    Lieberman disappeared. His bullet-ridden body was found the next day in a cave."

    Joseph's tomb is one of many, many examples of a lack of Muslim respect for religious sites and objects, and the silence of Islamic leaders following such desecrations.

    Don't forget the desecration of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem by Palestinian gunmen in April 2002, and the dynamiting of 2,000-year old giant Buddhist statues at Bamian, Afghanistan, by the Taliban regime in March 2001.

    "Those statues, destroyed by the Taliban, were first defaced when the Arabs came to Afghanistan in the late seventh and early eighth century. They cut the faces off the statues then. Later, the Taliban completely wrecked them. Like Joseph's Tomb, the Muslims were largely silent."

    And there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity for 39 days reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.

    Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    It seems to me that the Newsweek story was only irresponsible if the events reported never happened. I'm not entirely convinced that they didn't; in fact, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that the events in question did occur.

    I can certainly imagine a scenario in which government officials would pressure Newsweek to retract the story, even if it were entirely factual. Who's to say that didn't happen?
    So-called, "mainstream" media supposedly only report things they know to be true, not scenarios that sound plausible. Actually, I suspect the same sort of thinking was prevalent at Newsweek.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    No, what I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the events reported did occur, and that they were related to the reporter by a reliable source...but when the repercussions of the story became so dire, people involved (e.g. the reporter, the reliable source, and/or the higher-ups at Newsweek--which is hardly a bastion of liberal sentiment, btw) were pressured to retract their stories. If the 'government source' retracted his story due to pressure from his employers, then Newsweek was left with little choice but to retract the story.

    I'm not saying that this is what happened, but it did occur to me as a possibility as the story unfolded.

    Having listened to the stories of an interpreter who was involved in interrogation sessions at Guantanamo, the Koran story doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me. The interrogators do things designed to humiliate and enrage the prisoners based on their religious and cultural beiliefs (e.g. a female interrogator wiped red ink on the face of a detainee and told him it was menstrual blood--I think it's taboo in Muslim culture for men to even be near a menstruating woman.)

    Now, I think if I had been that reporter, I might have considered the ramifications of revealing the actions of the Gitmo interrogators (even if I believed the story to be true), and I might have chosen not to publish the stuff about the Koran. Still, I frankly don't think that he made up the story, or that he reported it without having confirmed its veracity through a source he believed to be reliable. That would clearly be against any reporter's best interest, especially with a story as explosive as this one.

    Jay, you talked about malicious intent. I doubt that this reporter was fabricating this story in order to wreak havoc in the Muslim world, simply because I don't see how that would serve his own interest.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    It seems to me that the Newsweek story was only irresponsible if the events reported never happened. I'm not entirely convinced that they didn't; in fact, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that the events in question did occur.
    I took a look at the original article in Newsweek. Had I not been told where to look, I would have missed it. There was no headline referring to toilets or books, and the substance of the story was that there were abuses going on down at Guantanamo. The report said that the book flushing had been reported to investigators; with the clear meaning that such conduct would not be honorable.

    The interrogators didn't flush the book down the crapper. Nobody can flush a book of average size down a normal crapper. Therefore, the story is evidently false.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    From http://rawstory.com/exclusives/newsw...report_516.htm :




    The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:

    "Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. ‘It was a very bad situation for us,’ said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. ‘We cried so much and shouted, Please do not do that to the Holy Koran.’ (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, Mar. 26, 2003.)

    Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in Mar. 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:

    "The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitution Rights, Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, (Aug. 4, 2004, deposition available here.)

    The claim that US troops at Bagram airbase prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Américains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement", Apr. 11, 2005). An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners web site (which describes itself as a "non-sectarian Islamic human rights website"): http://www.cageprisoners.com/print.php?id=6862

    Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cageprisoners.com, available at: http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=1611

    Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-inmates share Guantanamo ordeal," May 2, 2005).

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    From http://rawstory.com/exclusives/newsw...report_516.htm :
    The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:
    Well they sound like very credible witnesses?
    So far the denials have largely been "non-denial denials," and that always rouses suspicion. Allegations of desecration are often called "unfounded" or "not credible" or other words that basically mean, "the prisoner can't prove it."
    I doubt if flushing a Quran down the toilet is even possible, unless it's like an elephant toilet.
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    All I'm saying is that this is hardly a new story. Sure, we can say they're not credible because they're "the enemy," but I don't automatically discredit their stories just for that reason. Do you know for sure that American interrogators don't use these tactics with Muslim detainees? I don't think we can know the answer to that, since we are neither Muslim detainees nor American interrogators.

    Also, Element, I don't think anyone is claiming that the book actually went down the toilet, just that it was put into the toilet, which is certainly desecration enough.

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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    All I'm saying is that this is hardly a new story. Sure, we can say they're not credible because they're "the enemy," but I don't automatically discredit their stories just for that reason.
    To me, the thing that makes the detainee's claim less than credible is not that they are, "the enemy", it's their motivation. These people hate the U.S., it seems likely that once released, they would go back and do all they could to stir up more hatred against us. I can't think of anything more likely to motivate a suicide bomber than stories like this. As WWII was coming to a close, the japanese were told awful things would be done to them by the invading Americans. It happens in war.
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    Default Re: Erroneous Newsweek Report Results in Death of 16.....Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    Also, Element, I don't think anyone is claiming that the book actually went down the toilet, just that it was put into the toilet, which is certainly desecration enough.
    Wrong the whole controversy is about an allegation that a Quran was flushed down a toilet.

    According to NEWSWEEK, SouthCom investigators found that Gitmo interrogators had flushed a Qur'an down a toilet in an attempt to rattle detainees. While various released detainees have made allegations about Qur'an desecration, the Pentagon has, according to DiRita, found no credible evidence to support them.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/
    Last Edit: September 28, 1996, 12:58:29 PM by Element Edited 156 times

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    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-02-2008, 03:30 AM
  4. Fantastic Letter From 11/29 issue of Newsweek
    By Tigerlilly in forum Political Poo
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-01-2004, 06:34 PM
  5. Why did Newsweek NOt print any of this before?
    By montythegeek in forum Political Poo
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-05-2004, 06:29 AM

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