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he lied to stay in office, recorded (that could only be used as blackmail and violated the US constitution) conversations, authorized (unconstitutional) wiretaps by FBI and others, and generally worried (or created a culture in his subordinates of worrying) more about politics and re-election than fullfilling his oath of office.
Comparably (and none are saints) Clinton's lie had to do with who he slept with (or didn't - depending on your definition of the words...she probably never slept) while working for family medical leave act and other causes and generally OBEYING and HONORING the Constitution and his oath of office. For me, dishonoring congress by threatening not to appear and lying to their (inappropriate) questions about his sex life is all I trulyremember disliking his presidency for...unlike GW, who disappoints me often.
JFK - same deal...alot of big goals and visions, lying about (from my history books) not much...outside of his personal life.
and what exactly is Nixon's great accomplishment? Getting his VP to pardon him?
Don't get me wrong, every President does alot of bad and some good...they all do what they believe is right, just I prefer the ones that don't use the constitution, laws and oaths as toilet paper
I'm no great fan of Mr. Felt. He did not fill his role in the FBI appropriately. My limited reading seemed to indicate that a prime reason he used the press to bring down the Nixon Administration was that he was miffed at not getting the director chair; instead, it went to Patrick Gray.
Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Nixon, either, who was out of control by the time of his second term. Giving him his due, though, some of Nixon's accomplishments:
Federal revenue-sharing with local governments.
Ending the draft.
Ending Vietnam.
Reconciliation with and recognition of China.
Nuclear arms limitation treaty.
Environment programs, including establishment of the EPA.




I dunno.
Blaming Felt and Woodward for the actions of the Khmer Rouge seems like a bit of a stretch to me....
All true. Some people like to relegate Nixon's entire political career to Watergate.Federal revenue-sharing with local governments.
Ending the draft.
Ending Vietnam.
Reconciliation with and recognition of China.
Nuclear arms limitation treaty.
Environment programs, including establishment of the EPA.
Nevermind denying the accused due process and the benefit of a grand jury.I'm no great fan of Mr. Felt. He did not fill his role in the FBI appropriately. My limited reading seemed to indicate that a prime reason he used the press to bring down the Nixon Administration was that he was miffed at not getting the director chair; instead, it went to Patrick Gray.
Felt was working an angle, and he was working it like a veteran of J. Edgar Hoover's secret squads.
Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.
William F. Buckley, Jr.
One Deep Throat's legacies is the media's willingness to use anonymous sources. The main reason these people wish to remain anonymous is to hide their own agendas. This is why I always have a deep distrust of anonymous sources. In that sense, I guess you could say the one of Deep Throat's legacies is the Newsweek Koran report.
Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle
Deep throat was one of the original whistleblowers. Beat the drums for Nixon all you want, but he was a criminal. Felt might be a hippocrite (and piquish about being passed over when Hoover's seat was empty), but in leaking the story he was doing the moral thing (for once, read up on the rest of the guy's career, it wasn't much different to Watergate).
Clinton spent ten minutes in the hall with a fat chick, and Kennedy fucked Maralyn Monroe. Neither even remotely compares to Watergate.
And Nixon escalated Vietnam long before 'he' ended it.
I am not doing so. There was an assertion that Nixon did nothing notable outside of the Watergate devolution. I disagree and posted some accomplishments.Originally Posted by Madcap
I'm not beating the drums for him. I'm just stating some facts.
I didn't read the article that was linked. However from the reactions stated here, I would say:
1. It would be silly to link Felt and Woodward to the Khmer Rouge.
2. There were transgressions by Kennedy and Clinton that went beyond sexual escapades. However, it would be silly to raise those in comparison to the stuff that Nixon and his staff contrived and countenanced. There's little valid comparison.
People seem to be missing the significance of Felt as DeepT, which is he had virtually NO information beyond the law enforcement already investigating the matter.
Woodward and Bernstein had only a peripheral effect at best on investigating the scandal, and were actually chasing the FBI investigation, NOT leading it. They did manage to keep public attention on the story, but NEVER had a clue about the most important fact, which was the existence of the oval office tapes. Felt made numerous mistakes, some of which W&B published.
The Watergate scandal was unravelled primarily by the courage of a single man, John Dean. Alexander Butterfield's bravery to reveal the existence of WH tapes was the lynchpin. Archibald Cox's willingness to fight the good fight in court was the triumph of the rule of law.
Deep throat was hype.
Despite my Watergate obsession, I remain a Nixon fan. John Dean, however, is among the great Americans in our history. Amongst 40 witnesses during the Senate hearings, he alone told the truth.
Ben Stein needs to put down the crack pipe he's been smoking. What happened to him?
Stein was Nixon's speechwirter. How is it I know more about the facts that he does? He's lost it.
Stein: "He lied to protect his subordinates who were covering up a ridiculous burglary that no one to this date has any clue about its purpose."
Nixon suggested directing the CIA to block the FBI investigation of Watergate. This was the smoking gun that finished him. The vote to impeach him became unanimous once this tape was made public. Nixon also endorsed and even offerred his services for raising a million in cash to pay off the burglers to keep them quiet.
"A ridiculous burglery that no one to this date has any clue about its purpose"
His secretly funded staff of criminals was in the process of bugging the office of the Chairman of the Democratic Party's headquarters, a few months prior to the 1972 election.
Stein: "When his enemies brought him down..."
Nixon's own words did it. Even his most ardent supporters abandoned him once the above tapes were made public.
Stein has lost it. Too bad.
Okay, some help please. I thought the Watergate break-in came from a group organized to perform "dirty tricks" and hurt the democrats? Then they got a little over zealous? Still, it's a question I don't know the answer to, what exactly did they think they were going to find in the Watergate Bulding?
Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle
From a page:
I believe that Nixon and his staff were discussing the coverup within several weeks of the break-in, pretty well signifying some knowledge there.
- June 17, 1972: Five men, one of whom says he used to work for the CIA, are arrested at 2:30 a.m. trying to bug the offices of the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate hotel and office complex.
- June 19, 1972: A GOP security aide is among the Watergate burglars, The Washington Post reports. Former attorney general John Mitchell, head of the Nixon reelection campaign, denies any link to the operation.
- August 1, 1972: A $25,000 cashier's check, apparently earmarked for the Nixon campaign, wound up in the bank account of a Watergate burglar, The Washington Post reports.
- September 29, 1972: John Mitchell, while serving as attorney general, controlled a secret Republican fund used to finance widespread intelligence-gathering operations against the Democrats, The Post reports.
- October 10, 1972: FBI agents establish that the Watergate break-in stems from a massive campaign of political spying and sabotage conducted on behalf of the Nixon reelection effort, The Post reports.
Nixon was elected in a landslide soon after. When I say "landslide, I mean 48 out of 50 states.
For all of Nixon's accomplishments and intelligence, this sorry episode displayed him to be not only a paranoid meddler with his perceived enemies, but an incompetent one at that.
Thanks JZ. I've heard that even those close to Nixon never really felt like they knew him, that he was an enigmatic character. I wonder if some of his paranoia might have been due to the fact that it was widely believed JFK stole the election from him?Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle
Just like we might dislike the weaknesses of people whom we would otherwise admire - and I think just about every President can easily fit that category since Eisenhower - paranoia was just a part of Nixon's persona. His use of dirty tricks and Communist-baiting (which meant a lot more in the 1950's than it does now) long preceded his Presidential run against Kennedy.Originally Posted by Destiny
Besides, JFK didn't steal the election - Richard Daley stole it for him.
Later edit, after musing a bit:
Nixon had all the potential for greatness, and he ruined it with his personal flaws. He was one of the visionary latter-day Presidents. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan - however you might like them or dislike them, they had a grand Presidential vision. Ford (the accidental President), Carter, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II - they seem to be doing their politicking until they hit the top of the Resume` Climb.
Of course, a "grand Presidential vision" doesn't make it a correct vision, but I do like the idea of a President who takes the office seriously for its symbolism, for the potential of achievement of grand goals, above the personal drive or ambition that it took to get there.
Although the timeline you cite is a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, it is not the only one. Ben Stein would vehemently dissagree with parts of it.Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
The only incontrovertable evidence available is a small volume of unshredded documents, and the audio tapes. The key tape is June 23, 1972. This is the tape the brought down the Nixon White House.
On it Haldeman and Nixon discuss options for obstructing the FBI investigation of the Watergate burglary. Somewhere between 2 and 3pm Nixon says the following:
Nixon is ordering Haldeman to commit an obstruction of justice by concocting a story to use the CIA to block the FBI from continuing its investigation. ["These people" is a reference to CIA staff]
Nixon: When you get in these people when you...get these people in, say: "Look, the problem is that this will open the whole, the whole Bay of Pigs thing, and the President just feels that" ah, without going into the details... don't, don't lie to them to the extent to say there is no involvement, but just say this is sort of a comedy of errors, bizarre, without getting into it, "the President believes that it is going to open the whole Bay of Pigs thing up again. And, ah because these people are plugging for, for keeps and that they should call the FBI in and say that we wish for the country, don't go any further into this case", period!
Haldeman: OK Nixon: That's the way to put it, do it straight ..
The director of the CIA refused. The plan failed.
The highlighted portion is unambiguous. Nixon was obscenely attempting to misuse the powers of the office in order to cover up criminal activities.
These eight words brought down the Nixon presidency.
The words of Nixon himself tell so much more about the man than someone else's interpretation of events. The oval office tapes are a truly remarkable record of his genius, and his psychosis. A great president, and a tragic one.
I would LOVE to hear Clinton oval office tapes.....
The Watergate is a huge complex of offices, a hotel, and apartments. The chairman of the Democratic National Committee had his office within it. The breakin at issue was the second one by the burglars. The first time, they bugged the secretary's phone and obtained no useful information.Originally Posted by Destiny
Before returning for a second breakin, G. Gordon Liddy (head burglar) asked Jeb Magruder (white house) what he wanted. Magruder literally slapped his bottom desk drawer, and said "I want what they have in here". According to Magruder's later testimony, this is where they kept all the dirt they had on the Democrats. They wanted to know what dirt the Democrats had on them.
The burglars brought with them 50 rolls of film to photograph documents. Apparently they anticipated a LOT of dirt.





The true legacy of Watergate is a thoroughly jaded public--people just don't care anymore that government lies to them. All of those guys are running the country now--Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of the Nixon administration (fuck, they're old). And people don't care. Which is good for the GOP as an ignorant, apathetic, poor and uneducated population doesn't vote.
Indeed, but this is the wrong conclusion. Archibald Cox, the initial special prosecutor and renowned professor of law at Harvard said these infamous words at a news conference as the whitehouse was refusing to turn over the tapes pursuant to a subpoena:Originally Posted by Susan Wayward
"Whether ours shall continue to be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."
This should be the true legacy of Watergate. Cox was right. The Constitution prevailed over the man. This was a shining moment in our history, not a dark one.
Of course that was 1974. Thirty years later, the Constitution is being shredded by these a-holes and no one seems to give a shit. Different topic.





Nixon's failed presidency was not because he accomplished nothing, it was because of his personality and his hiring/appointing people who would go along with his ways. Nixon actually did accomplich an impressive list of things but the whole Watergate thing diverted him from being able to do even more.
You may or may not believe Felt was a patriot and/or hero. It doesn't matter. The man had guts. And he knew important crimes when he saw them. Wategate is regarded as close as the US has come to losing the essentials of democracy. Well at least until the Partiot Act.
I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.
Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.
NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.
Very well put.Originally Posted by threlayer
In my opinion, many patriots emerged from the turmoil of Watergate, including to a degree the much demonized Haldeman and Erlichman. They believed their duty was to protect the president at all costs, and they broke laws to do so. They eventually fessed up to it and did real time in prison, 18 months each. So did about 15 other people from that administration, including John Dean. G. Gordon Liddy did the most, 4 years. And not a one came out bitching. They were stand up guys and paid the price for protecting a president they believed in, albeit criminally. In my opinion except for John Mitchell, the attorney general at the time and a major scum bag, these guys weren't nearly as bad and corrupt as they've been portrayed. They fucked up and they knew it. The lesson to future administrations was to prevent such a disaster; a lesson neither the Reagan nor Clinton administrations took to heart. George Stephanopolis and Leon Panetta should have been body blocking Monica to keep her away from Clinton. They knew his weakness, and let it slide just like Nixon's boys did for his paranoia.
Jeb Magruder, who did 7 months in prison for his participation, has a somewhat different view of Felt than Stein, who did not a day. He admires Felt:
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...i?ArtNum=97215
Last edited by stant; 06-10-2005 at 09:53 AM.
For my fellow liberals that unlike myself, hate Nixon, here are a few of his accomplishments and hopes for the future, in his own words, from his resignation speech on August 8, 1974:
I'll take him in a heartbeat over Dubya.
We have ended America's longest war, but in the work of securing a lasting peace in the world, the goals ahead are even more far-reaching and more difficult. We must complete a structure of peace so that it will be said of this generation, our generation of Americans, by the people of all nations, not only that we ended one war but that we prevented future wars.
We have unlocked the doors that for a quarter of a century stood between the United States and the People's Republic of China.
We must now ensure that the one quarter of the world's people who live in the People's Republic of China will be and remain not our enemies but our friends.
In the Middle East, 100 million people in the Arab countries, many of whom have considered us their enemy for nearly 20 years, now look on us as their friends. We must continue to build on that friendship so that peace can settle at last over the Middle East and so that the cradle of civilization will not become its grave.
Together with the Soviet Union we have made the crucial breakthroughs that have begun the process of limiting nuclear arms. But we must set as our goal not just limiting but reducing and finally destroying these terrible weapons so that they cannot destroy civilization and so that the threat of nuclear war will no longer hang over the world and the people.
We have opened the new relation with the Soviet Union. We must continue to develop and expand that new relationship so that the two strongest nations of the world will live together in cooperation rather than confrontation. Around the world, in Asia, in Africa, in Latin America, in the Middle East, there are millions of people who live in terrible poverty, even starvation. We must keep as our goal turning away from production for war and expanding production for peace so that people everywhere on this earth can at last look forward in their children's time, if not in our own time, to having the necessities for a decent life.





Nixon had a true world view, like Kennedy, Truman and Roosevelt in these generations. GWB only has a myopic missionary view. His view that all countries need democracy now is short-sighted and self-serving, just as the view that all people need Jesus now is from his own feelings. We did not hire GWB to actually BE us and to be a missionary for our customized governmental system, forcing our ways on others. We hired him to do many more leadership things than that but he seems to be stuck there.
As a nation we voted him in, so I guess we're stuck going to the same Hell as he is taking himself to.
I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.
Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.
NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.
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