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Thread: Canadian Girls - Read this

  1. #1
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Canadian Girls - Read this

    http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/dec/04120102.htmlNow, I realize that a cry of "Oh we are so misunderstood" may be redundant, but is it just me, or is this just blatantly lying?

    The only underage dancers I have met were like 1 year underage, and were Canadian. I have never seen a 14 year old dancer. I'm sure it's happened at some point (there was a discussion on Traci Lords here, once upon a time). But for god's sake. 14! Yeah, right. I have personally never seen an imported underage dancer, and I have never, never, NEVER been "penetrated" in a club. Lapdancing here, I don't think usually involves full out actual sex (let alone "invariably"). I mean I work in a bit of a skanky downtown club, and I've never seen anyone having sex. I haven't even seen anyone's penis (like my customer's or anyone else's) - the the booths are arranged in such a way as to be fairly high traffic and visible. In this club known for high mileage, I see a lot of grinding and breast touching. You might not like grinding, but it's a far fucking cry from having sex.

    This is just the most unethical journalism I have ever seen. Shame. Just. For shame.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  2. #2
    Member S4L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I personally know of two three girls busted under age. One was 15 and the other two were 16. I have a couple of friends that started dancing at 16 when girls were doing shows in Canada. None of them were ever caught. All of them were born and raised in Canada.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

  3. #3
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    The girls that I knew who were underage were all 17 and also Canadian citizens. To import a dancer, like 1000 people need to see her ID. It's either really good, she looks really old or a whole hell of a lot of people who have nothing to do with the adult entertainment industry are looking the other way.

    Plus - from my experience, the imported girls are generally lying about their ages in the OTHER direction.

    How were they "busted" if they were never caught?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Member S4L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    The three that were busted were not friends of mine. They were girls that were dancing in bars we were working at. The girls I know personally that danced underage were never busted.
    I should have been more clear.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

  5. #5
    242_fair
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I started dancing in Toronto at 15, so I know it happens.

    Romanian officials, as well as Bulgarian, are known for accepting bribes... it's a bad financial situation over there right now, so these 'agents' can easily hand over a few hundred USD and get a birth certificate with a different year on it. That's just how it works there. If your passport says you are 20, it does not matter how many people look at it when you enter the country, you are 20 as far as anyone is concerned.

    None of this even includes the widespread phonomena of passport sharing among like-looking sisters and friends. I've had Eastern Euro girls offer me $1000 to 'borrow' my canadian passport to enter the states since otherwise they have no prayer. No thanks.

    At any rate, I agree with some of the article, that a) there were underage girls imported under the visa program from Romania, and b) generally they have no clue how raunchy the dancing is here and typically they expect to be 'GO-GO dancing like in Madonna videos', then the truth comes out once they arrive.

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    Member S4L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Both the bars owners and Canadian officals know it goes on and turn a blind eye to it.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I don't know if you can really call that journalism; that site is for some very right-wing conservative religious organization--did you see all of the anti-same-sex-marriage, anti-stem-cell, anti-abortion stuff?

    I am so, so disappointed in Canada right now. Are you hiding all of these people in Alberta?

  8. #8
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    ^^^
    Pretty much. I can't think of where else they would be.
    I know some women who are active in issues surrounding prostituion have ongoing issues with International Coalitions Against Trafficking in Women - they are largely a hatemongering group that hates sex trade, but wants to couch their agenda in "victim's rights". Ultimately, if there is a problem with underage girls I think a better solution would be to carefully check ID, rather than change VISA regulations. I mean, call me simple, but it might be effective to actually ENFORCE exisiting legislation meant to deal with the actual problem rather than running around writing up new, overly-general laws meant to punish women for being in sex trade. But, that's just the way we like to do things in Canada. Big, inflated, and unnecessary bureaucracy.

    Obviously, I know there have been underage dancers - though, to be honest, I don't think that is a significant problem in our society either. But I don't believe importing underage dancers is a big problem, and my own experience doesn't show me Romanian women thinking that they will be go-go dancers - and as I said, their characterizations of lapdancing in Canada I think are very flawed.

    Sorry. I can get kind of worked up about ethics in the media - or for that matter amongst advocacy groups. I mean you can have bias - even strong, stated agenda - and still not misrepresent things or outright lie. It is possible to be on a "side" and still tell the truth.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Member S4L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Depending on the bar and the girls there is a lot of girls doing way more than they should for the money. Some bars have cleaned up but others have not. I live outside the T.O. area and some of the girls do let customers touch for a price. One of the bars we work at had problems with the police charging girls for touching. They were putting pressure on the bar so they cleaned the place up. Business had dropped off and customers just don't come in as often.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I'm sure. I've seen and, honestly, done, touching for a price. But there is a big difference (at least in my mind) between a guy grabbing your ass, and putting his penis inside you. Or for that matter, anything inside of you. Now as I said - I haven't seen any penis action since working in Toronto. And I've worked in clubs that are a little known for some mileage. Now I find it hard to believe that penetration is invariable if I have never been pressured to do it (seriously. Guys have tried to finger me, eat me out and ask me for hand jobs. Nobody has even asked for full sex in the club) and I have never seen it. I find it hard to believe that it is standard, or even all that frequent. I've heard that Niagara Falls can get pretty wild, but I've never been there - like clubbing there, so I don't know. Colour me naive.
    So in your club full sex was happening enough to call it "invariable"?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Member S4L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Not full sex but hand jobs, fingering etc. is an every night thing.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Okay, one can be fingered quite subtly, so that could be happening to everyone for all I know. But handjobs - I'm pretty sure I'd see something. Our booths aren't really set up for privacy - more the illusion of privacy. In fact I keep noticing the perverts in the booth across from staring while they are getting their own dance - a sort of twofer.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    PM me some time and we will talk more.
    "I was in the tanning bed and I sneezed and banged my head on the lid " JN

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    Veteran Member alenadowns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Being from Alberta....I have to let you all know that contact of ANY type is illegal here! We dance with a 3' barrier around the stage! Vip dances are in a seperate room, again NO contact.

    There is only 1 province in Canada that contact is legally permitted and that is Quebec, and the girls leave their gstring on! Ontario law states illegal, but it happens alot there!

    Every province bends the rules...just as everyone of the states does!

    I have worked in Every province in Canada. In Ontario, a girl may perform stage and VIP shows even if she is underage. The age limit is for alcohol consumption, not presence! I worked with a little one named Star in London, ON. She celebrated her 18th birthday the week I was there. She had been dancing almost a year, and the legal drinking age in Ontario is 19.

    In most provinces, you need city licenses & security clearances, so you must be of legal age.

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    Veteran Member NoCoverLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Jenny, FS does happen here. In fact it happens more frequently than you'd believe. I'm not saying it's rampant, but in some clubs it is fairly common.

    I won't name clubs. I don't want the guests trolling around here looking for info to suddenly show up at these clubs, or worse yet, show up at your clubs, looking for things that aren't available.

    The one club I will mention is Fantasia, as it no longer exists. Its run ended in 1999. It was located at Major Mackenzie and Yonge. It was basically a full-on brothel. I've seen things go on there, in plain sight, that you WOULD NOT believe!

    I've also seen the damage and misery that such a place causes. If you want to understand why prostitution does not belong in strip clubs, this is a very good example to study.

    So, contrary to what you might want to believe, it does happen here, even today.

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    Member pinkispimp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I started dancing when i was 17 with a fake Id... now I'm 18, and i look much younger... but the manager at the club i started at really didn't care i think because when i look back the the fake Id .. you could sooo tell it wasn't real..

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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    This is just the most unethical journalism I have ever seen. Shame. Just. For shame.
    When you already know how you want the story to read and you know the sensibilities of the target audience, it's not really journalism.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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  18. #18
    242_fair
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoverLover
    The one club I will mention is Fantasia, as it no longer exists. Its run ended in 1999. It was located at Major Mackenzie and Yonge. It was basically a full-on brothel. I've seen things go on there, in plain sight, that you WOULD NOT believe!

    I've also seen the damage and misery that such a place causes.
    Ah, the good old Major Mac Hotel. Redeveloped into condos now I believe...

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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I have met several girls who started dancing in their mid-teens, one when she was 14. But they check for ID, so it's not like it's condoned. And all of them were Canadian born.

    Also, I find it very hard to believe full-service happens even at my club. Managers go by all the time...I don't know how anyone could hide actual sex acts. The worst I've seen with my own eyes was a guy going down on a girl. I do believe that certain dancers sell sex- they admit it- but at hotels across the street, after club hours.

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    Veteran Member NoCoverLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I can't speak for Ottawa at all, as I haven't been into a club there since 1986.

    In Toronto there are at least two clubs were you will find it. For it to happen, management has to look the other way. In some clubs, mgmt will do that...

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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    For the person that mentioned Niagara Falls, you are correct. At Seductions in NF FS is the norm. I haven't been there in over 2 years because it was harder to find someone to just get a dance from instead of extras. They will come right out and ask you if you want......., anything is available there. At Private Eyes on Highway 55 in St Catharines the place was busted by the health board for what was found in vip area. Now the dancers have to sign in to use a booth, and if anything is found in there it is the dancers problem. With all that goes down here, i guess that is why i haven't gone to a club here in so long. I'd rather go to the Brassrail in Toronto.
    The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club.

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    Senior Member lalitha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I've heard a lot about 'clubs' outside of Montreal that offer full sex. They're really just thinly vieled brothels though. And the reason I know of it is that a friend of mine worked there...when she was 14. I thought that was really sad when she told me that. But some of those clubs are run by bike gangs anyway and aren't exactly on the up and up.

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canadian Girls - Read this

    I never actually went to Fantasia, but I was dancing when it was still open, so of course I heard about it.

    As I said, it doesn't shock me that sex happens, but I really don't think it is invariable, and I have difficulty believing that girls are pressured by management to do it (again, my commentary was meant to be contextualized by the article. I think. I posted this a long time ago). Again - I've never worked in a club in which management tried to force me or pressure me to fuck the customer. I have worked in clubs where the management told me I was free to fuck the customers if I wanted to... is that meant to be the same thing?

    And further, I do know that dancers do work underage - however, I don't think that underage dancers are being imported. In Toronto it is a little harder now to work underage than it was a few years ago.

    Although in retrospect the whole Sgro thing was a scandal that only Canadians could come up with. Like a woman who had the right to remain in Canada, and should by all normative understanding be able to stay in Canada (she had a Canadian husband, and I think children) got to stay in Canada. How do we work this up into something?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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