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Thread: Public Opinion

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    Default Public Opinion

    (Snip) In this month's Post-ABC News survey, when 52 percent of those polled said that the war in Iraq was not contributing to American security and 49 percent said they disapproved of President Bush's handling of the global war on terrorism

    (Snip) the White House is losing that argument with the American public and does not seem to understand why.
    It is an argument that increasingly centers on the very character of the American involvement in those conflicts, not only on the narrower cost-benefit ratio of U.S. casualties there.

    (Snip) The failure to discover weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has forced the administration to emphasize the moral reasons that underlie the case for regime change, a cause I argued for through four successive administrations. But it is American morality -- not Saddam Hussein's demonstrated lack thereof -- that is becoming a defining issue now, however unfair that may seem.

    From the disclosures about prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib to the apparent falsification of the circumstances of the friendly-fire death of former pro football player Pat Tillman in Afghanistan, there has been a lack of serious accountability for lies, mistakes and worse in the military and civilian chains of command.

    (Snip) Patience in times of hardship and danger has to be earned by leadership, by candor and by demonstrated accountability and responsibility at the top. A poll may be nothing more than a snapshot, but it can show us things about ourselves we need to see.



    Poll: Majority Says War in Iraq a Mistake

    By The Associated Press
    The Associated Press
    Friday, June 24, 2005; 2:47 PM

    -- Just over half of Americans, 53 percent, now say the war in Iraq was a mistake _ the highest percentage to say that in AP-Ipsos polling since December 2003, when two-thirds said the war in Iraq was the right thing to do.

    The poll taken earlier this week also found that almost six in 10 disapprove of the Bush administration's conduct of the war

    ...
    Last edited by Weekend Reports; 06-25-2005 at 09:21 AM.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Well, this is what I think about it. The iraqi insurgency problem is an Iraqi problem. It has been nearly three years since Bush flew in on his little plane under the "Mission Accomplished" banner.

    He is never going to eliminate car bombs and hoodlums. So if he wants to mark that as the end of the war, it is never going to end. They have been blowing each other up and others for twenties years.

    Put the Iraqi's back in charge of thier country.

  3. #3
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    The Iraqis need to be in charge. Agreed. However, we still need to hang on in some fashion. Having trashed out their security and infrastructure, however despotic it may have been, it would be only sporting of us to make sure the place is rehabbed and tidied a bit before we leave.

    "Now, if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the King that led them to it." (William Shakespeare, Henry V)

    The primary reasons stated for our invasion (WMDs and terrorism) were mostly empty. The men are not dying well. For me, and apparently for a growing number of Americans, this is a black matter for the President who led them to it.
    Last edited by Jay Zeno; 06-27-2005 at 12:57 PM.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Public opinion in this country is hardly a barometer of intelligent policy making.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Also, there is no such thing as an 'objective' ABC news poll !!! Here's a PEW Poll with a very different result ...



    Public opinion in this country is hardly a barometer of intelligent policy making.
    All I can say as a New Yorker is ... ain't that the truth !

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    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by mel
    Quote:
    Public opinion in this country is hardly a barometer of intelligent policy making.


    All I can say as a New Yorker is ... ain't that the truth !
    What is the definition of good/bad policy? For the policy maker, the best policy (and arguably most intelligent) is the one the preserves his own power. Public opinion is important to political self-preservation.

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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    a truly GOOD politician doesn't give a damn about opinion polls, he/she simply votes for what he/she thinks is right and lets the chips fall where they may. Gov't by opinion poll guarantees short term gratification in exchange for long term disaster.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    a truly GOOD politician doesn't give a damn about opinion polls, he/she simply votes for what he/she thinks is right and lets the chips fall where they may. Gov't by opinion poll guarantees short term gratification in exchange for long term disaster.
    So the politician should ignore the opinion of the masses? How can they truely represent these people when they simply ignore their opinion on an item? That is a good way to start a revolution...

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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    a truly GOOD politician doesn't give a damn about opinion polls, he/she simply votes for what he/she thinks is right and lets the chips fall where they may.
    I disagree.

    Politicians are elected to do the will of the people, not ignore the will of the people.

    Since you cited Pew, here is the poll results of their current global opinion of the U.S

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    So the politician should ignore the opinion of the masses? How can they truely represent these people when they simply ignore their opinion on an item? That is a good way to start a revolution...
    Well not ignore, but keep in perspective. For example, if a poll of the masses were conducted which asked whether or not income taxes should be abolished, I am absolutely certain the answer would be yes. If the very next day another poll of the masses were conducted which asked whether or not social security benefits, unemployment benefits etc. should be abolished, I am absolutely certain the answer would be no. However the two issues are mutually exclusive. It is the role of a politician to 'manage' the short-sighted desires of the masses (as you put it) against the long term consequences.

    PS a little revolution is a healthy thing every now and then (forgot who originally said this).


    Since you cited Pew, here is the poll results of their current global opinion of the U.S
    My duly considered position in regard to international opinion regarding the USA can be briefly summarized by the phrase "who gives a shit !". International opinion regarding the USA has a way of changing in a heartbeat when the vested interests of those foreign countries and their citizens become an issue.

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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    My duly considered position in regard to international opinion regarding the USA can be briefly summarized by the phrase "who gives a shit !
    Two reasons to "give a shit" :

    1. economic stability
    2. national security

    Sorry but intelligent and ethical people "give a shit"

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    Default Re: Public Opinion

    Since WW2 at least, world economic stability comes from essentially one place ... US$ denominated US treasury notes. US national security essentially comes from one place ... the laser of a Cruise Missile's guidance system. Any other interpretation is naive self-delusion.

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