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Thread: Western Union Custys

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    Default Western Union Custys

    If a customer wires you cash throuvh Western Union or something...don't they need to have your real name? I finally landed a whale..and I know wiring money is going to come up at some point...but he only knows my stage name....won't I need to show ID at the Western Union???

    He's out of state so he can't just give me money at the club....

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    God/dess colleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Get a PO box, $20 for 6 months I think, and let him mail a money order there. When you cash it, jsut sign the back "Abigail Smith" or whatever you told him your name was. JUst deposit it in your bank and don't try to draw on it until it clears. Should be OK.


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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    well shit Colleen!!!
    If you keep giving out perfect answers with perfect solutions,what the hell are the rest of us supposed to do all day at work?????

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Sorry...do NOT deposit it at your bank. Cash it at your bank...but if you deposit it, and he puts a trace on the MO, he can get your bank account info. While that's not bad for the majority of the population, there are a few of us who know how to back track things like that to find real names, addresses, etc.

    Bad juju. Just cash the money order.

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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    They don't check IDs to cash money orders? I would think they did, because anyone who picked it up could cash it....

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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Maybe you could sign up for a paypal account, and have him transfer the money that way. I don't know if he can find out your real name that way, so you should check it out first. You need to use an email address to sign up, but just put a fake name on a free yahoo or hotmail account.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    I agree that of all the methods mentioned above, a PayPal transfer will have the lowest probability of leaving a traceable trail to your real name and other personal details. However, be aware that any transaction or PayPal check which is larger than your state reporting limit will also generate an automatic 'cash transaction report' to the IRS. I don't know what Florida's limit is, and I don't know what state your 'whale' is located in, and I'm not sure which state's laws PayPal follows (I'd guess the state that their headquarters is located in), but the New York limit is $3000 and the federal limit is $10,000. Try to avoid exceeding this not only because it may lead to an audit, but because it could raise possible IRS issues over your 'whale' having to pay gift tax (on a cumulative total over $11,000 in one year I think), or the money you receive being taxed as payment for services rendered rather than being considered a tax-free 'gift'.

    Another way to get around this problem is to form an LLC under your stage name ... In my own case it's called Melonie Charm Ent. That way anybody that wants to send me a check can make it out in the name of Melonie Charm, and as an officer of the LLC I can legally sign my real name to endorse the check.

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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Just rent a mail box at a maildrop place. My regular customer knows my name but has sent me cash via Fed Ex or Express Mail. He has wired me money using my real name and my stage name as a test question.

    If you rent a mail box at a mail drop establishment, they will sign for it and he can send cash.

    I have never had problems receiving cash that way. I have a second mail box in a city I go to all the time, where none of my bills go. My customer sent me cash via Express mail to buy a Louis Vuitton purse. There really is no problem sending cash overnight. I've been doing it for years.

    If your customer gets to that point with you, he will want your real name anyway. That is not a problem as long as all of your mail goes to a mail drop, and you make sure he sends cash.

    Don't deal with checks or money orders. We work in a cash business. Many times a regular won't want to leave a trail on himself by using checks.

    Just don't give him your home address.

  10. #9
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Almost all the above information is wrong - mail box services aren't private anymore. I'd really recommend picking up a book called "How to be Invisible" by JJ Luna, about privacy and asset protection.

    No transaction online is untraceable. Paypal doesn't want to do business with adult entertainers and it's easy for a sender to cancel payment AND to get your actual information. The only anonymous online payment system currently is egold.com

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    Senior Member grinew127's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Another possibility. This link.

    https://www.moneybookers.com/app/

    Supposedly to work like PayPal.
    Last edited by grinew127; 07-02-2005 at 04:46 AM.

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    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Quote Originally Posted by smartcookie
    Almost all the above information is wrong - mail box services aren't private anymore. I'd really recommend picking up a book called "How to be Invisible" by JJ Luna, about privacy and asset protection.


    Damn this was some good info Smartie. Even their website has some great information on this topic: www.howtobeinvisible.com. Possibly more important is some of the wisdom offered by the auhors, and the generally ethical approach to a dicey topic. All too often schemes offered up are both easily pierced and ethically very hinky.

    No transaction online is untraceable. Paypal doesn't want to do business with adult entertainers and it's easy for a sender to cancel payment AND to get your actual information. The only anonymous online payment system currently is egold.com
    I'd agree 100% with the first sentence. Egold has plenty of issues, however, although it is an interesting concept and provides far greater privacy than traditional banking. The concept is to use an alternate commerce instrument to avoid the near zero level of privacy in US banking regulations as Venus suggested. One concern I have is that once the Fed gets a hard-on for these folks, they may succeed in having this transferrance mechanism classified (by the Court) as a financial instrument and subject to banking regulation.

    I do love that book though. The New Mexico LLC info alone is worth it's weight in egold.

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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    To get back to the original question... Western Union can send to a person with no ID. You can put in a test question and the answer. The clerk asks the test question of the receiver and if they get the correct answer the person gets the cash. All transactions have a MTCN or money tranfer control number which the repient has to know so it is a double blind system.

    Western Union has to be able to wire to people who lost IDs on vacation miles away from home. Western union fees are also high, more than 10%, and there are limits on online transactions for the sender.

    As for a money order sent to a fake name, the bank you DEPOSIT it in will not care if fake-you endorses it and real you endorses it. The bank is going to want it to sit for a few days and clear but they do not care as long as you have sufficient funds to cover it sitting there. this is the same as depositing a kids check in your account after they endorse it. Of course there are records if this is done.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Trying to 'corral' this thread back to the original point - which was a desire by the original poster to receive monetary 'gifts' from an admirer without having to disclose her real name and personal details to that admirer. To summarize ...

    Snail mail to a 'mail drop' address or P.O. box fulfills this purpose from the standpoint of the admirer only. However, a 'mail drop' or P.O. box provides no protection in terms of anonymity from a gov't agency inquiry. From a paranoid viewpoint re possible gov't agency inquiries, use of a 'mail drop' is actually more 'suspicious' than use of a P.O. box. Snail mailing to a P.O. Box is undoubtedly the least 'risky' alternative both in terms of keeping the recipient's identity a secret from the admirer, and also in terms of inadvertently attracting the attention of gov't agencies.

    Snail mailing cash leaves no official record of transactions and does not involve any financial institution in the transaction. However, there is the risk of the cash being lost or the envelope being 'inspected'.

    Snail mailing of money orders may generate automatic 'cash transaction' reporting to the IRS of the admirer's personal information if the amount exceeds the reporting threshold ($1,500 US Postal MO, commercial MO varies by state i.e. $1,000 in New York) - but not the recipient's information. If the money order is made out to a particular name, ID requirements may also come into play when the recipient attempts to cash the MO. However, in general, MO ID requirements are pretty loose.

    Snail mailing of checks creates bank transaction records for the admirer and probably for the recipient as well. If the check is made out to a particular name, ID requirements may also come into play when the recipient attempts to cash the check. This ID requirement can be circumvented by depositing the check, but that creates a bank transation record.

    Online transactions using PayPal essentially creates a credit card transaction record for the admirer, and a PayPal transaction record for the recipient. PayPal only offers 'superficial' anonymity between the admirer and the recipient, with both gov't agencies and a determined admirer being able to access the recipient's personal information.

    Online transactions using E-Gold is a fantastic alternative ... providing that you never need to 'cash in' the gold ! Once you do, a bank transfer is going to be involved with associated record generation and ID requirements.

    Western Union transfers are as described above, and recipient ID requirements can be minimal ... but at a high price.

    Forming an LLC, and opening a bank account in the name of the LLC, legally gets around any personal ID requirements in regard to cashing/depositing MO's, checks, or for that matter wire transfers. Having an LLC bank account with the recipient's stage name as the LLC name allows the admirer to make out MO's, checks and wire transfers in that stage name. However, as with personal accounts, transaction records will be generated when deposits are made, and transaction records are certainly available to gov't agencies.

    In the way of a personal comment, the LLC obtaining and using an EIN rather than the single LLC member's SS# when opening the LLC bank account does add one extra level of 'smoke screen' between the admirer and the recipient as well as for gov't agencies (but which can easily be pierced if the gov't agency puts any real effort into an investigation). However, using an EIN can come in very handy in regard to automatic inquiries by gov't agencies - for example an automated computer sweep for all accounts linked to a particular SS# which the IRS obtained as a result of a strip club investigation or a website Section 2257 inquiry.

    Another personal comment - ALL states now allow the formation of single member LLC's. However, particular states may impose annual fees or other requirements which makes the use of an out-of-state LLC more desireable. As the 'anonymity' link points out, New Mexico LLC's have the lowest fees and the least amount of personal information disclosure. However, just like the use of a 'mail drop', forming an out-of-state LLC can arouse suspicion with gov't agencies in and of itself.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 07-02-2005 at 05:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek
    To get back to the original question... Western Union can send to a person with no ID. You can put in a test question and the answer. The clerk asks the test question of the receiver and if they get the correct answer the person gets the cash. All transactions have a MTCN or money tranfer control number which the repient has to know so it is a double blind system.

    Western Union has to be able to wire to people who lost IDs on vacation miles away from home. Western union fees are also high, more than 10%, and there are limits on online transactions for the sender.

    As for a money order sent to a fake name, the bank you DEPOSIT it in will not care if fake-you endorses it and real you endorses it. The bank is going to want it to sit for a few days and clear but they do not care as long as you have sufficient funds to cover it sitting there. this is the same as depositing a kids check in your account after they endorse it. Of course there are records if this is done.
    Well where I"m at...they DO NOT give that option. Eventhough there is a line for a test question, it isnt' used. And presenting your ID, and filling out the forms is necessary. No forms + ID, no money







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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    While I don't have any recent personal experiences with Western Union, at the very least I would think that trying to use the 'lost ID' excuse is only going to work one time at the same local Western Union office. I do know for a fact that Western Union is bound by the federal 'cash transaction' IRS reporting laws the same as banks, money order companies etc. I would also deduce that from a paranoid viewpoint that the gov't agency 'suspicion factor' is higher for Western Union transactions than for regular banks.

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    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Quote Originally Posted by stant
    One concern I have is that once the Fed gets a hard-on for these folks, they may succeed in having this transferrance mechanism classified (by the Court) as a financial instrument and subject to banking regulation.
    This already happened it seems. Your friend the PATRIOT Act, by modification to the Banking Secrecy Act, now classifies these chaps as one of many newly defined "Non-banking Financial Institution". Reams of regulations are now covering them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel
    the gov't agency 'suspicion factor' is higher
    Banks and NBFI's can virtually report anything under certain guidelines that are a huge mess. http://www.fincen.gov/ This a way to avoid the pesky court system, of course.

    I just love the completely transparent Orwellian double-speak usage of: "Patriot" and "Secrecy". Another crock of shit served up to the masses.



    edit: Regarding the WU no ID test question issue, here's the official WU policy:
    Generally, TEST QUESTIONS may be used if the principal amount of the money transfer does not exceed $999.99. In the U.S. and many destinations outside the U.S., a money transfer that includes a Test Question will be paid to the Receiver if the Receiver can provide the correct answer to the Test Question OR can provide valid identification.

    In other words, the official legal policy is roughly: "if under $1K, maybe" .
    Last edited by stant; 07-02-2005 at 11:03 AM.

  18. #17
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Well, obviously I wouldn't recommend forming an LLC for a single-time payment for a customer, but for folks like me, who need a way to receive multiple payments from multiple customers without giving them my real name and address (all while paying my taxes, thank you very much) an LLC is quite ideal.

    The feds are already getting a boner for e-gold...pick up the latest issue of the Economist and read the letters to the editor. I should quantify - I haven't used it, and there's no way to get around bank reporting requirements if you want delivery in cash instead of gold, but all the sending person gets is a number. They cannot obtain your name or other personal information.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Union Custys

    Generally, TEST QUESTIONS may be used if the principal amount of the money transfer does not exceed $999.99. In the U.S. and many destinations outside the U.S., a money transfer that includes a Test Question will be paid to the Receiver if the Receiver can provide the correct answer to the Test Question OR can provide valid identification.


    In other words, the official legal policy is roughly: "if under $1K, maybe"
    Which basically coincides with a $1,000 automatic 'cash transaction reporting' requirement !

    I know that these automatic transaction reporting requirements and ID check requirements stemmed from the 'terrorist anti-money laundering' provisions of the Patriot Act and related legislation, which originally started out with a $10,000 federal threshold. However, it would appear that tighter individual state regulations have now brought the 'radar' down to the $1,000 level (probably to comply with the strictest state regulations that Western Union does business in).

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