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Thread: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

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    Default Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    In a sign of the continuing partisan division of the nation, more than two-in-five (42%) voters say that, if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should hold him accountable through impeachment.

    Among those living in the Western states, a 52% majority favors Congress using the impeachment mechanism while just 41% are opposed; in Eastern states, 49% are in favor and 45% opposed. In the South, meanwhile, impeachment is opposed by three-in-five voters (60%) and supported by just one-in-three (34%); in the Central/Great Lakes region, 52% are opposed and 38% in favor.

    In the Red States—just 36% say they agree Congress should use it if the President is found to have lied on Iraq, while 55% reject this view

    In the “Blue States” a plurality of 48% favors such proceedings while 45% are opposed.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    2 in 5 does not a majority make, even if one assumes that a Zogby poll accurately reflects the actual opinions of all Americans. More democratic obstructionism to follow, no doubt. Maybe this time the republicans will filibuster an impeachment proposal !

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weekend Reports
    In a sign of the continuing partisan division of the nation, more than two-in-five (42%) voters say that, if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should hold him accountable through impeachment...
    Despite your post in Melonie's thread re: the ramifications of the Valerie Plame incident, even if Karl Rove is the source of the leak in that case, he would, no doubt, find one or more ways to destroy a number of political careers at the first sign of any attempt to impeach the president.


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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    If there is one thing I learned from the Clinton years its that lying is not an impeachable offense.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    If there is one thing I learned from the Clinton years its that lying is not an impeachable offense.
    Lying about a blowjob is beans.

    And, no, i don't think GWB has done anything to really deserve impeachment. He's a godawful presidesnt, he's full of shit in his "keep america safe" speeches (and it's blatently obvious that he's full of shit), and Karl Rove is his puppetmaster, but he hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Lying is a job requirement, not an impeachable offense, for politicians.

    The impeachment of Clinton was a huge mistake, slowing down government to have a doomed sideshow. Any talk of impeachment for Bush needs to keep in mind that a Republican House of Representatives must pass on the articles by a majority vote (ain't gonna happen) and that the Republican Senate would then need a two-thirds vote in order to actually remove the President (ain't gonna happen). And then Cheney would step to the plate as President.

    Impeachment, sorry, is a bit of a farcical topic right now.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    I agree it is not likely to happen given the current climate on the Hill.

    I do however think starting an illegal war, murdering hundreds of thousands of people and using a WMD (depleted uranium) is deserving of impeachment at the very least

    Personally, I think that the much of the current adminstration belong in jail for the rest of their lives because of the above mentioned things.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    They do belong in jail for things they have done in office, and before they were elected.

    But, the Bush administration and their cronies have so many "connections" in high places who actually control how this country is run, that any one who attempts to "expose" their indescretions will be put in a position that could ruin them for life.

    We have all seen evidence of that.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    He hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment as far as I'm concerned.. event though I still am not in agreement with a lot of things, he hasn't done anything terribly wrong, other than just made himself look like a fool in regards to finding no MofMD...

    Yep.. Gyn is still pissed off....


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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Lying about a blowjob is beans.
    Perjury is perjury. Enough said.

    Why TL doesn't get over her hatred for GWB is beyond me...so much wasted energy.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weekend Reports
    I agree it is not likely to happen given the current climate on the Hill.

    I do however think starting an illegal war, murdering hundreds of thousands of people and using a WMD (depleted uranium) is deserving of impeachment at the very least

    Personally, I think that the much of the current adminstration belong in jail for the rest of their lives because of the above mentioned things.
    Many people forget that Bill Clinton dropped a lot of munitions on the Iraqi landscape as well. The only difference then was that the cameras were turned off.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Remember when this sort of thing was a matter of law, and not popular vote?

    Democracy doesn't mean majority rules. Democracy also means rule of law, protection of the individual against the majority and of course protectifrom the tyranny of the majority.

    I have no idea what laws govern presidential impeachment. I'm pretty sure, though, that being a bad president is not illegal. So has he done something illegal?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    He has broken more than one international law.

    He is responcible for the mass murder of over a hundred thousand innocent people.

    Isn't that enough ?

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    No. And I don't say this as a bush fan. Declaring war, and the deaths ensuing are not illegal. He even had the support of Congress. He even had the support of John Kerry. And unfortunately (or not, depending on your viewpoint) American sovereign law is separate from international law. We can see if anyone wants to try taking him to the world court... but that has nothing to do with impeachment.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    He has broken more than one international law.
    TL, breaking international law is not grounds for impeachment. If you'd actually read the Constitution (specifically, Article Two) you portend to actually know so much about, you'd already know that.

    Even Jenny figured that out, and she's one of those squirrelly Canadians.

    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    but he hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment.
    He lied us into a war. 'nuff said.
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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    He lied us into a war. 'nuff said.
    For the umpteenth time, I will again point out that this assumption/conclusion/accusation is far from provable. I will again point out that many intelligence sources indicated the movement of large truck convoys hastily travelling from Baghdad to both Syria and to Iran during the two week delay immediately prior to coalition troops landing in Iraq (during which the Turks deliberated over whether or not to permit coalition troops to cross Turkish territory on their way to Iraq).

    #1 - these intelligence sources have not released what they know to mainstream media - and for good reason, both in terms of compromising useful sources and strategies, and probably with an element of 'you can't handle the truth' in terms of which western countries were profiting by supplying WMD components/technology/tech support personnel to Saddam's regime (i.e. France, Germany and Russia).

    #2 - coalition troops have yet to 'explore' beyond the Syrian and Iranian borders for Saddam's WMD's, making a conclusion that 'there must not have been WMD's in Iraq since we didn't find much within Iraqi borders' rather naive in light of the truck convoy intelligence reports.

    From the standpoint of a possible impeachment of GWB under US law, the above can be referred to by a common US legal phrase ... "reasonable doubt".

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Melonie - do you really, truly and actually think that there WERE WMD? I mean, I'm reading your rationalizations, and they are reading, like... rationalizations.
    Again - I don't exactly know what needs to happen, what criteria needs to be filled for the president to be impeached - and I'm beginning to suspect that none of you know either.

    And Co - perjury is perjury? Enough said? All perjury is created equal? I understand that all perjury is illegal. But you really think that a lie about a blowjob is in equal bad faith to a lie about WMD that started a war and killed hundreds of thousands? Look at it this way - I really like your shoes -- I did have have sexual relations with that woman -- We need to invade now. These lies are all equal to you? They may all be bad - but equally bad? You need some shades of gray in your life, man.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    There were no Weapons. Period. Sources have verified there were none. He made himself look stupid and he's admitted that Husein was not the cause for 9/11. Media is just media and there have been no reports of anything found other than things that they knew were already there (there was a report of them finding a chamber full of weaponsn (guns, explosvies etc), however they knew they were there.. they just had to go through the proper channels to seize them)...

    Bush just irritates me. The whole situation over there just irks me period. I don't believe he lied, I think he jumped to conclusions too soon.

    As many troops will tell you, yes, we need to be there to help them establish their government and yes, Hussein was an evil evil man and needed to be taken out of power, however, Hussein, even if ties were there with Bin Laden and Al Quieda, he covered his tracks well.. there have been no reports of WMD found by any of our troops that Bush was certain that he had...

    And, my own personal opinion, we need to be worrying more about the events in Korea than we do Iraq.
    Last edited by Gynger; 07-03-2005 at 07:37 AM.


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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Media is just media ? ... then where was the coverage of this story ...

    "On January 17, 2003, DEBKA-Net-Weekly No. 93 published a verbatim interview in Amman, Jordan, with a former Saddam bodyguard we called Jassem Abdulla, a pseudonym to protect him from assassination by Saddam’s agents.

    Following is an excerpt from that interview:

    Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

    In the desert. It is a vast expanse, and they have cameras,,, the minute someone approaches, such as UN personnel, they move to another place. Tikrit is closest to the site. Weapons are also located in Baghdad.

    There's a place called Ouja near Tikrit. (Ed. Between Tikrit and Samarra.) It’s a peninsula of sand dunes. I saw with my own eyes bunkers that move from place to place inside the dunes, underground. It is simply unbelievable; it is done by remote control.

    Twenty-five people went there in 1994. We were told they were Americans, but the truth is we really didn't know who they were. They were there for four years, until 1998. In early 1991, they worked there and built weapons of mass destruction. But I don't know what's exactly there now. No one saw them. They came by car, with maps. It was strange, because we thought sanctions were in place, but they came and built the complex. Immediately afterwards, they brought the bombs and weapons systems. They built a ceiling and put chemical and biological weapons inside. The Russians followed, and there were Chinese in there too. The Russians tested the strength of the structure. They fired at it and set off explosions. But nothing happened to the Chinese inside. They did not die. I saw the Chinese leave the complex one by one and in one piece.”

    This testimony has been borne out by subsequent intelligence probes in Iraq. However, the most intense efforts to reach that hidden cache have thus far been defeated. "

    ... or the coverage of this story ? ...

    "Pentagon ousts official who tied Russia, Iraq arms


    By Bill Gertz
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES

    A Pentagon official who publicly disclosed information showing Russian involvement in moving Iraqi weapons out of that country has been dismissed.
    John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security and formerly an aide to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, was forced to leave his position Dec. 10 as the result of a "reorganization" that eliminated his job, defense officials said.
    Mr. Shaw said he had been asked to resign for "exceeding his authority" in disclosing the information, a charge he called "specious."
    In October, Mr. Shaw told The Washington Times that he had received foreign intelligence data showing that Russian special forces units were involved in an effort to remove Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction in the weeks before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq began in March 2003.
    In a letter to Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Shaw said that information about the covert Russian role in moving Iraqi arms to Syria, Lebanon and possibly Iran was discussed during a meeting that included retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency; the head of Britain's MI6 intelligence service; and the head of a foreign intelligence service that he did not name.
    The Pentagon office was conducting "research focused on analyzing Russian documents to determine the pattern of acquisition and dispersal of weaponry in the pre-war period," Mr. Shaw said in the Dec. 3 letter. A copy was obtained by The Washington Times.
    The Defense Intelligence Agency has been fully briefed on the Russian covert arms removal, and Mr. Shaw expected additional information from foreign sources to produce more details, he wrote to Mr. Rumsfeld.
    Reports of the Russian role in dispersing Iraqi arms made news during the final days of the presidential election campaign, at a time when the Bush administration was being criticized for failing to secure tons of Iraqi high explosives that could be used in developing nuclear arms.
    Mr. Shaw went public to counter a political "October surprise" campaign designed to "crucify the president" over the missing explosives, he wrote to Mr. Rumsfeld.
    "The Kerry media-driven October surprise attack on us and the president stopped within hours," Mr. Shaw wrote. "If I had not had the openly hostile environment in [Pentagon public affairs], I would have moved the story differently. Getting the truth out instantly was more important than process."
    After Mr. Shaw's disclosures, the Pentagon released spy satellite photographs of Iraqi weapons facilities that showed truck convoys at the plants, apparently in preparation to move materials. Further corroborating Mr. Shaw's account, a Russian newspaper reported that two retired Russian generals had received awards from Saddam's government 10 days before the coalition assault on Iraq began." emphasis added


    In the opinion of many 'insiders' such as Bill Gertz and John Shaw, public disclosure of the true roles of the Russians, Chinese, French and Germans with Saddam's WMD and other programs has been officially silenced for the express purpose of maintaining international 'harmony' as well as to avoid scaring a lot of westerners with the knowledge of whose hands the WMD's are now actually in.
    Last edited by Melonie; 07-03-2005 at 08:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    No. And I don't say this as a bush fan. Declaring war, and the deaths ensuing are not illegal. He even had the support of Congress. He even had the support of John Kerry. And unfortunately (or not, depending on your viewpoint) American sovereign law is separate from international law. We can see if anyone wants to try taking him to the world court... but that has nothing to do with impeachment.
    I understand what you are saying.

    And I don't think anyone who reads your posts would think you are a Bush fan, you are far too intelligent for that line of thinking !

    Btw, just a curious question, but do you feel he should be tried for violations of international law ?

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    I don't believe he lied, I think he jumped to conclusions too soon.
    3 words

    Downing Street Memos

    They show that he was fixing intelligence to support his desire to declare war on Iraq.

    And, my own personal opinion, we need to be worrying more about the events in Korea than we do Iraq.
    I couldn't agree more !

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Look at it this way - I really like your shoes -- I did have have sexual relations with that woman -- We need to invade now. These lies are all equal to you? They may all be bad - but equally bad? You need some shades of gray in your life, man.

    rofl! You rock, Jenny.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    And Co - perjury is perjury? Enough said? All perjury is created equal?
    For all GWB's haters and enemies, if there were incontrovertible proof that the basis for the invasion of Iraq was maliciously fabricated to suit an ulterior political motivation, it would have surfaced--and it still could. The jury is still out, and history has a way of dredging up inconvenient facts on its own--GWB's day may yet come.

    But to write off WJC's perjury because it was about getting his cock sucked ignores the fact that he denied Paula Jones due process under a law that WJC himself signed into existence two years earlier! And yet, women continue to be WJC's biggest defenders! They defended his "right" to violate, abuse and, if Kathleen Wiley and others vilified in the press corps are to be believed, rape other women! It's simply unfathomable to me. I remember specifically watching Donna Shalayla and Madeline Albright standing before the Washington press corps, adamant in their support of WJC's denial of wrongdoing and then becoming absolutely silent after he admitted his perjury. Despite the fact that she is a remarkable woman, I lost all respect for Albright in that one singular moment.

    So don't talk to me about shades of gray because wrong is wrong, and for all his political savvy--the likes of which we hadn't seen since FDR--and otherwise enviable intellect and charisma, WJC was very, very wrong in this matter.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Just how many Americans want Bush Impeached ?

    I'm curious to know, as an upcoming law student.. does anyone know the rules of impeachment? I do... I don't believe that GWB has done any of them.. I don't agree with the man, but he still hasn't been "proven" to have done anything...

    And I'm sure I"m going to catch hell for this, but I don't believe the Russians are any way involved with Iraq... and yes, media is media.. so many stories, so many bad stories, nothing good to report, etc...

    Now, I don't get myself mixed up in politics because quite frankly I just dont' think its worth upsetting anyone, I respect everyone's views and beliefs.. but, from what I know from having a hubby in the military and Spec Ops for close to 20 years.. there are things going on no one knows.. and lots of things that get done that look like something is going on when in actuality its being done to cover up something else.. that's just the way it is...

    If the Russians have anything to do with anything, perhaps take a look at their relationship with Korea.. again, Iraq being the big brew-haha for something else that is going on that we never hear about.. if there are WMD.. they aren't in Iraq... never were, and we were meant to think otherwise..


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