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    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Scientology

    Yep, I have a friend that works at the Church of Scientology in DC and she says people actually come by the church to take pictures with the sign out front.
    I think it's awful how people are picking on the church just because of something a movie star said. I don't see people asking advice from Britney Spears so why ask anything of Tom Cruise. They are his ideas he's presenting and that's the way it should be said.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    He reminds me of something I heard a few months ago: People who always want to share their religious beliefs with you will rarely want you to share yours with them.
    My latest conspiracy theory: I am convinced that Dick Cheney is, in reality, Elmer Fudd.

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Yep, everyone should choose what's right for them w/out going against another's religion just because it's different. I know I try not to do that myself, although I did go on an anti-Catcholic rant a few months back, sorry guys. It's just that any form of child abuse really makes me mad and sort of blind to the rest of the world.
    That being said, I didn't watch the thing on Tom Cruise, I really don't want to know. I was born into a Scientologist family, but have not been to the church since I was very young, neither has my father or brother. Like a "non-practicing" Christian, I took what I wanted from the religion, but I don't follow evey thing that's said. Scientology has it's great points and it's low points, I try for the great ones. It really does try to get people to be better to themselves, there isn't any hocus pocus.
    I don't like that it is against homosexuality because I honestly don't think someone's sexual orientation has anything to do with the type of person they are, but then I dated women so I guess I am biased on that subject.
    As for the aliens I keep hearing about, I asked a few Scientologist friends and they never herd of the aliens either, I'm 24 and they are A LOT older so shouldn't we be the ones to know about it? If Jesus was an alien the Christians wouild know right?
    Ah well, I keep reading about the things others have been writing about Scientology on this site and I want to say that I am not nuts, I go to a doctor when I need to, plus it is Scientologists that are anti-doctor it's more of the older Christian Scientists, different religion. And even the Chrisitain Scientists go to the doctor if needed, we all need a little help to keep our bodies going right?
    I just hope for the best and that this Tom Cruise thing would fade away, I never liked the bastard anyway.
    And anyone that tries to combat this post with something snide to say about Scinetology, please don't because I have been one and NO I don't know everything about it, no I don't agree with everything about, but I do know that it's not a cult and it taught me to do my best in this world. Heck, it's the only religion I have and that's how I choose to keep it.
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    Veteran Member lwtex52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Well, I grew up going to a Methodist church with one side of my family, and the other side were Mescalero Apaches. Surprisingly, there is a lot of common ground between the two. The effect on me is that I won't make fun of anyone's religion, although I will admit that I've had a lot of fun at the expense of some of the televangelists.
    My latest conspiracy theory: I am convinced that Dick Cheney is, in reality, Elmer Fudd.

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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_girlchild
    I think it's awful what he did to Scientology, made it look nuts, but if no one's going to listen to him spout his opinions on other things I hope they truly don't believe everything he says about Scientology.
    You can take any religion and make it sound nuts or make it sound super, it's all in who is doing the tlaking and who is doing the listening.
    Ok, then get a copy of "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?" written by his son. Here's a link to it at amazon.com: http://tinyurl.com/cwgzu
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Well, I haven't read it, but I might check it out. All I can say in defense is that L. Ron Hubbard is NOT God in Scientology, contrary to popular belief he is NOT worshiped.
    As for the book, I know I haven't read it, but you can take anything out of context and call it truth. That's why the Enquirer and the Sun usually wintheir court cases. It may have been the "truth" but take it out of context and it sounds completely different.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Gypsy, you have to be a Operating Thetan level III to get to hear about the Aliens.

    Here's a link to a rundown of it...

    Hard to get to because OT-III costs so much to achieve.

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    I also want to add that I am not saying that Scientology is perfect, I don't go to the church for my own reasons, I'm sure some of them are in the book and I will have to check that out. I have issues with the church because of some of their beliefs, but I must say that the church I went to has evolved with the times and is actually a bit different than it was when I was a child. I wonder if the book is about the Scientology of today or when it first started out.
    As I've said before you can find many things wrong in every religion I don't follow all the teachings of Scientology, just theones that made sense to me and I felt I could live by.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Gypsy, you have to be a Operating Thetan level III to get to hear about the Aliens.

    Here's a link to a rundown of it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xemu

    Hard to get to because OT-III costs so much to achieve.
    LOL
    then again Christians believe there was a talking snakeinthe garden of Eden and a man that "walked" up to heaven with God. If anyone claimed that today they'd be called nuts and put away.
    You never know what the beginning of each religion might be, but I never heard about the aliens so I'm going to sit that one out.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Here's another one...

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    That was mean!
    Well, I don't know what level I am, I never took to the levels or courses, just not my thing, although a few were bought for me, he he.
    I think I just go by what is instinct and not by all the courses and levels you can reach. I've heard of the church helping some pretty unhappy people so if it works for them then I am happy. If it doesn' then try something else.
    I think the reason any religion was invented is to help people deal with the factg that eventually we are all going to die. Religion makes us feel like there is a possiblilty of not just being a rotting corpse and teaches us that we should get along with each other so that there won't be consequences when we die. This is just my own theory.
    Scientology pissed me off in mor ways than one, but I believe in a lot of what it is based on and frankly have little to no interest in other religions, I have read up on a few and although I like their stories, I just think Scientology was more factual to me and sort of cut and dry. It taught me how to treat others and live my life to the fullest, or at least put in the effort.
    I am by no means a model Scientologistm and will never claim to beone, but I try to be a good Christian if you get my meaning.
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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_girlchild
    Well, I haven't read it, but I might check it out. All I can say in defense is that L. Ron Hubbard is NOT God in Scientology, contrary to popular belief he is NOT worshiped.
    That's addressed in the book as well. The reason is because Ron quit the church and would have nothing to do with it because it went too far into the deep end for even his tastes. And he had bizarre tastes. What happened was that they reached a Mexican stand-off. And if you read how Scientology deals with dissenters, you'll understand what sort of one they had with Ron.

    As for the book, I know I haven't read it, but you can take anything out of context and call it truth.
    Except all the facts in the book are documented, on public record, and have been verified by respected members of the press.

    That's why the Enquirer and the Sun usually wintheir court cases. It may have been the "truth" but take it out of context and it sounds completely different.
    You really need to read up on your church before you start trying to defend it or condemning people for speaking poorly of it. Just read the police records on what Scientology has done. That alone should be an eye-opener for you. Also understand how their E-meters are just crude lie detector machines and what they do with the information they compile when "clearing" people that come to them.

    How I know all this is because one of my hobbies is cults. Being a social psychologist, they're a fasinating topic. And, yes, Scientology is a cult. It might become an established religion in the future (after all, Christainity started out as a cult), but there's no guarantee. However, it has already survived the usual killer of cults and that being the death of its founder. Interestingly, this was helped by Ron breaking away from the church and keeping his mouth shut. As far as my reading of religions go, this is the first time a founder ever left the religion he founded.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie


    You really need to read up on your church before you start trying to defend it or condemning people for speaking poorly of it. Just read the police records on what Scientology has done.
    Are you saying that none of this can be found in other religions? Please don't try to tell me that. The history of many religions it built on lies, murder, and extortion. Plus, all I am defending is what I chose to take from the religion. Why do YOU feel the need to rip into a religion anyway? Everyone treats their religion differently, some follow it to the hilt and some just call themselves a part of it. So why can't I try and defend some of it?
    Have I said that it is perfect? No. There are many things I don't like about it and of course right now I feel like I am repeating myself.
    So call it a cult if you want, I don't believe it is. If you don't want to be a part of it then don't be, but don't try to rip into something that I grew up with. SO I don't know everything, does anyone truly know everything about their religion? No.
    Do I want to know everything, obviously not. Would you rather I list the things wrong with it? Or the things I took with me? I choose to remeber what I took with me.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    From what I have read, I like Scientology. I like the concepts and the teachings. I have heard bad things about the church. I don't know whether to believe that or not. Could be other religions trying to keep scientology from gaining power, could be true. But I know one thing.... the books were written to help people, and they do.

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    Veteran Member Pumpkin Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_girlchild
    That was mean!
    Actually, that's exactly what Scientology is based on. You do know that Ron was a bad science fiction writer, don't you? In fact, he wasn't that original. He used one of his science fiction novels for the religion and even that was a rip-off of another author's work.

    Well, I don't know what level I am, I never took to the levels or courses, just not my thing, although a few were bought for me, he he.
    I think I just go by what is instinct and not by all the courses and levels you can reach.
    So you're defending a religion that you know every little about? An odd sort of defense. However, Muslims do the same thing so it isn't unusual.

    I've heard of the church helping some pretty unhappy people so if it works for them then I am happy. If it doesn' then try something else.
    The problem is how they do this help and what they do to those that try to leave them and expose them for what they are. But don't think I'm saying Scientology is somehow unique in this regards. Almost all cults do things to keep the flock faithful and dissenters from tearing them down. What does make Scientology unique is how they use the information they get from their crude lie detectors (E-meters) to keep dissenters silent.

    I think the reason any religion was invented is to help people deal with the factg that eventually we are all going to die. Religion makes us feel like there is a possiblilty of not just being a rotting corpse and teaches us that we should get along with each other so that there won't be consequences when we die. This is just my own theory.
    I'd agree with that. I'd add it also helped keep rulers in power.

    Scientology pissed me off in mor ways than one, but I believe in a lot of what it is based on and frankly have little to no interest in other religions, I have read up on a few and although I like their stories, I just think Scientology was more factual to me and sort of cut and dry.
    I think then you need to do a bit more reading up on Scientology. It sounds like when you know what it is really about, how it operates, and other details, you'll join us realists.

    It taught me how to treat others and live my life to the fullest, or at least put in the effort.
    I can suggest a endless list of self-help books that do that same thing. One I especially like is "The Double Win" (http://tinyurl.com/ajg2t) by Denis Waitley. An even better one would be ... interestingly enough ... a novel titled "Atlas Shrugged" (http://tinyurl.com/7aedw) by Ayn Rand.

    I am by no means a model Scientologistm and will never claim to beone, but I try to be a good Christian if you get my meaning.
    That's nice to hear.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie
    Actually, that's exactly what Scientology is based on. You do know that Ron was a bad science fiction writer, don't you? In fact, he wasn't that original. He used one of his science fiction novels for the religion and even that was a rip-off of another author's work.


    This is supposedly true. But that doesn't take away the positivity it offers to some people who need it.

    Thats like saying Jesus was just a carpenter. (not that L. Ron Hubbard is anything like Jesus lol).

    The truth is in the message, just like any religion. People can distort it in any way they like, but it doesn't change the original meaning of the text.

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    I love how all the Tom Cruise threads become riffs on Scientology...

    Here's some info on the Man himself... Mr Lafayette Ronald Hubbard


    ET, a lot of stuff helps people, but a comfy lie is still a lie. If these people get their heads together with Dianetics, good on them. But that doesn't mean Xenu is real, or that it's any less bullshit than talking snakes are.

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_girlchild
    Are you saying that none of this can be found in other religions? Please don't try to tell me that.
    I think in my posts to this thread I'm being quite clear that I'm not saying that.

    The history of many religions it built on lies, murder, and extortion.
    I'd agree. That and lack of research by followers of their religion.

    Plus, all I am defending is what I chose to take from the religion. Why do YOU feel the need to rip into a religion anyway? Everyone treats their religion differently, some follow it to the hilt and some just call themselves a part of it. So why can't I try and defend some of it?
    Because that's simply naive and foolish. There are a lot of good things you can say about Nazism. It brought a depression-state country back out of the gutter, it made people get physically active and healthy, helped the self-esteem of an entire country, and so forth. There are many neo-Nazists that take your stance for their religion. Only looking at the good and not the bad. Calling people liars that point out bad things their religion has done. Yes, I realize this is an extreme example, but it is to make a point.

    So call it a cult if you want, I don't believe it is. If you don't want to be a part of it then don't be, but don't try to rip into something that I grew up with.
    So if you believed the Earth was flat, I would be in the wrong to tell you it isn't?

    SO I don't know everything, does anyone truly know everything about their religion? No.
    If they did, they wouldn't believe in their religion.

    Do I want to know everything, obviously not. Would you rather I list the things wrong with it? Or the things I took with me? I choose to remeber what I took with me.
    You're defending a cult and knowing very little about it. You're telling to people not to say bad thing about your cult yet admit you know less than they do about it. Think about that. Is that wise?
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Also, considering it costs something like 8000$ for Operating Thetan-I and II, 17000$ to get OT-III and IV and 25000$ for OT-VI thru VII, i'd say that some of these people come out a hell of a lot poorer if they come out at all. Hell, just an hour with one of those lie detector things costs anywhere from 500$ to a friggin' grand! Then the clear certanity rundown is almost 3000$ and all that is before you even get to Operating Thetan! I once read that it costs somewhere around 125 thousand dollars just to get to clear!

    There are stories of people mortgaging their homes and cleaning out their bank accounts for this stuff! Salvation shouldn't cost hard cash. At least Jesus is free for god's sake (Ridiculous, but free).

    I feel no malice toward the everyday scientologist, i think they are very well meaning but very decieved. Moreso than even the Jehova's Witnesses with their Watchtower overlords.
    Last edited by Madcap; 07-07-2005 at 10:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    From what I have read, I like Scientology.
    Then I'd recommend reading more about Scientology not put out by them.

    I like the concepts and the teachings. I have heard bad things about the church. I don't know whether to believe that or not.
    Given we're talking about Scientology, I'd wager they're more likely true than false.

    Could be other religions trying to keep scientology from gaining power, could be true.
    I love the paranoid conspiracies of cults.

    But I know one thing.... the books were written to help people, and they do.
    They're what cultologists called "gateway" literature to bring in new recruits.

    One of the best things I've ever done was prevent my younger brother from reading Dianetics. He brought up that he picked up the book and was thinking of reading it. I calmly explained about how it is a gateway book and what Scientology is about, who founded it, its core beliefs, how it operates, and so forth. No mad yelling or tying him to a chair. Just one brother talking to another. An older brother offering what he thought was good advice to a younger brother and backing it with facts. I left the decision up to him and was more interested in finding out why he was thinking of reading it. He was depressed and lonely (a common reason for people to enter cults) so we talked about that. I then introduced him to a few women I knew and he was all better soon thereafter.
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    Default Re: Scientology

    And the hammer of Rhiannon cometh down... We seem to have moved... hehe


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    Default Re: Scientology

    Well, I don't know who turned this into a thread thatI started, because it wasn't me.
    Because of the negative views I haven't written anything about the whole Cruise incident or Scientology. I get really sick of views like Pumpkin Pie, who has taken everything I've said and tried to make me sound like some stupid child worshipping a golden cow. I'm sorry if you don't believe in what I have to say and also think that I am defending a whole religion, I haven't done that and it's sick of you to do that to me. I think it's pretty base to ignore what I have written and then call me naive.
    You know what once again I am writing that I NOT defending the entire religion, call me naive and unknowledgable. Scientology has done some great things for people and that's what religion is for. I asked in my first post to keep the negativity to yourself, because I was only writing an opinion about how unfair it is to tear into a religion because a super stay made it look bad. I think it's true about any religion.
    Think what you want, but don't make extreme examples. EVERY freaking religion has it's bad history, why are you ripping into me for my beliefs?
    I really truly hoped I wouldn't actually have to defend myself on here, but I guess that is how it goes on this site.
    I tell you what you can have your beliefs and I'll have mine, I'll just step back under my cloud of ignorance. Becasue you know what, I know a lot of the crazy things about Scientology and I still choose it as my religion, I don't lie or try to cheat people out of their money. Maybe the church does,but I don't, but I don't believe in a guy that turned water into wine either, or religions where women must do whatever their husbands say.
    So once again, have your own beliefs, rag on the cult you so hate, but if you are going to that shouldn't you rag on every religion out there?
    I don't give all my money to the church or any church, I give nothing becaue I don't attend. Don't think that it is the only church that asks for money. Also remember how Catholism started with the members as paupers and the priests ads rich and mighty. I know that is extreme, but that's an example for you.
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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    I love how all the Tom Cruise threads become riffs on Scientology...

    Here's some info on the Man himself... Mr Lafayette Ronald Hubbard


    ET, a lot of stuff helps people, but a comfy lie is still a lie. If these people get their heads together with Dianetics, good on them. But that doesn't mean Xenu is real, or that it's any less bullshit than talking snakes are.
    It hasn't really been proven whether it is bullshit or not. I mean, if I am a person who believes I am ugly and spend everyday in front of the mirror telling myself I am beautiful, and then it raises my self confidence level, it only helped me. Is it true? To some people. Anyone's reality could be seen as bullshit. Scientific facts are constantly proven to be bullshit. How much of the Bible is bullshit? Who knows? And the Bible was obviously written from certain viewpoints, yet people get something out of it that gives them hope. That's what really matters.

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    Default Re: Scientology

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_girlchild
    Maybe the church does,but I don't, but I don't believe in a guy that turned water into wine either, or religions where women must do whatever their husbands say.
    Matter of fact, neither do I.


    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    How much of the Bible is bullshit?

    Ya really want me to answer that?

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    Default Re: Tom Cruise is nuts dot com

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin Pie
    Then I'd recommend reading more about Scientology not put out by them.



    Given we're talking about Scientology, I'd wager they're more likely true than false.



    I love the paranoid conspiracies of cults.



    They're what cultologists called "gateway" literature to bring in new recruits.

    One of the best things I've ever done was prevent my younger brother from reading Dianetics. He brought up that he picked up the book and was thinking of reading it. I calmly explained about how it is a gateway book and what Scientology is about, who founded it, its core beliefs, how it operates, and so forth. No mad yelling or tying him to a chair. Just one brother talking to another. An older brother offering what he thought was good advice to a younger brother and backing it with facts. I left the decision up to him and was more interested in finding out why he was thinking of reading it. He was depressed and lonely (a common reason for people to enter cults) so we talked about that. I then introduced him to a few women I knew and he was all better soon thereafter.
    Look, I know all about Scientology. I will never join a religion, because I see them all as brainwashing cults. But I do think that the original message is a positive one, which could enrich some people's lives. No more and no less than that.

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