View Poll Results: Is there a connection between the London attacks and the UK presence in Iraq?

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Thread: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    I see a lot of commentary from British politicians stating that the reason they were attacked because of their 'way of life' or because of their 'values'.

    To me this seems nothing but foolish. How willfully blind must one be to not make the obvious connection that Blair has been Bush's biggest ally in his illegal war of aggression and plunder against the people of Iraq?

    What is the difference between an innocent civilian victim of a bomb in London and and innocent civilian victim of a bomb in Fallujah?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    What is the difference between an innocent civilian victim of a bomb in London and and innocent civilian victim of a bomb in Fallujah?
    ... the innocent civilian victim of a bomb in London was (probably) not killed by his neighbor ! Then again, considering the number of insurgents entering Iraq from Syria, Saudi, Palestine, Iran etc. I may be wrong !


    To address the question of your title thread, the reason arguably is that the islamic terrorists are still doing business with the French and the Germans, as Saddam was before his ouster.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Let me rephrase for the benefit of the intentionally obtuse, what is the difference between and innocent civilian victim of a bomb left on a bus in London and the innocent civilian victim of a bomb dropped by an American warplane in Fallujah?

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    To address the question of your title thread, the reason arguably is that the islamic terrorists are still doing business with the French and the Germans, as Saddam was before his ouster.
    That is a falsehood.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    what is the difference between and innocent victim of a bomb left on a bus in London and the innocent victim of a bomb dropped by an American warplane in Fallujah?
    The innocent victim in Fallujah has a whole bunch of dead terrorists lying next to him, whereas the innocent victim in London does not (if they planted the bombs) or has only the body of one suicide bomber.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    That is a falsehood
    Well, the Iranians and Syrians certainly are still doing business with the French, Germans and Russians ! Arguably the Iranian and Syrian governments are supporting terrorists. Therefore the terrorists are doing business with the French, Germans by proxy if not directly.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    The innocent victim in Fallujah has a whole bunch of dead terrorists lying next to him, .
    I guess if you just label anyone you kill as a 'terrorist' you can justify any evil act.



    BAGHDAD, IRAQ - NOVEMBER 16: A relative looks after Mustafa Ahmad,2, an injured Iraqi child from Fallujah lies on a bed during treatment in a hospital on November 16, 2004 in Baghdad, Iraq. (Photo by Ghaith Abdul-Ahad/Getty Images)

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    Well, the Iranians and Syrians certainly are still doing business with the French, Germans and Russians ! Arguably the Iranian and Syrian governments are supporting terrorists. Therefore the terrorists are doing business with the French, Germans by proxy if not directly.
    Perhaps a remedial course in logic would be helpful. You statement is so full of unfounded assumptions, conflation of disparate objects, and a glaring non sequitor that it refutes itself.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Not to minimize the personal human tragedy of the above child, but ...

    I could return post pictures of some 4000 victims of the WTC, Madrid, Bali and London attacks.
    I could also return post pictures of some 50,000 innocent Iraqi victims of a single Saddam poison gas attack.

    The not so subtle difference of course is that 'civilians' living in Fallujah had a pretty good expectation that, since their city was basically a terrorist stronghold, it was only a matter of time before they were caught in a crossfire between terrorists and coalition troops. Thus the parents of the unfortunate child you posted above, if truly concerned about that child's welfare, could have left the area. Of course this would have been difficult if the child's father was part of a Fallujah terrorist unit I suppose.

    In contrast, New Yorkers office workers, Spanish commuters, vacationing Australians in Bali, and London commuters had no advance reason to anticipate the use of explosives.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    Not to minimize the personal human tragedy of the above child, but ...
    Disingenuity to justify immorality.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    ...What is the difference between an innocent civilian victim of a bomb in London and and innocent civilian victim of a bomb in Fallujah?
    The answer to that is so obvious that one would have to be, "intentionally obtuse" not to see it. The victims of the bombs in London were the intended targets of the terrorists. The victims in Fallujah were unintentional.

    When you compare the carpet bombing of Germany in WWII with the actions of our soldiers in Iraq today, you realize that no country in the world has gone to the effort or spent as much money to minimize civilian casualty as the United States. Hell, when our soldiers came under fire in Somalia, the cowardly men held women in front of them as they fired their AK-47's at our soldiers. I'm not suggesting modern warfare is pretty or desireable. I am stating that we are doing everything humanly possible to minimize the suffering of civilians. On the other hand, the terrorists in Iraq, and Madrid, and London are doing everything in their power to bring more suffering to innocent civilians.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    The not so subtle difference of course is that 'civilians' living in Fallujah had a pretty good expectation that, since their city was basically a terrorist stronghold, it was only a matter of time before they were caught in a crossfire between terrorists and coalition troops. Thus the parents of the unfortunate child you posted above, if truly concerned about that child's welfare, could have left the area. Of course this would have been difficult if the child's father was part of a Fallujah terrorist unit I suppose.
    Melonie, of course you are so right! People with a home, life, family in Fallujah and little access to resources andvirtually NO chance of gaining political support for emigrating to another country and NO MONEY to make the trip have oh-so many choices!

    Bullshit and you know it.

    There are bad people in all disputes, bad people in all nations and businesses (including every government / army in the world)...that doesn't make all people living in a place/working there guilty or innocent.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    The answer to that is so obvious that one would have to be, "intentionally obtuse" not to see it. The victims of the bombs in London were the intended targets of the terrorists. The victims in Fallujah were unintentional.
    Even if one were to grant the ridiculous notion that you know the intentions of those who gave the orders, I'm pretty sure that if you or a member of your family were a victim, this distinction would be meaningless to you.

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    Banned TerpsichoreToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    The victims in Fallujah were unintentional.
    Unintentional ? I think not ! The US has a term for these type of victims. It's called collateral damage.

    Also to Dlabtot and DiscreetDancer

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Even if one were to grant the ridiculous notion that you know the intentions of those who gave the orders, I'm pretty sure that if you or a member of your family were a victim, this distinction would be meaningless to you.
    If I were a victim, their intentions might very well be meaningless to me. That does not mean their intentions have no meaning. To put it another way, let's say that I'm driving down my street and a young child runs out into the street in front of me and I hit and kill her. I can't imagine the terrible loss that parent would feel. However, as a civilized society, we definitely make a distinction based on my intentions as a driver. If the child's death was the unavoidable consequence of my and her actions, nothing is done. If however, the child's death is a consquence of my driving my car recklessly while drunk, I go to jail. Civilian casualties are a terrible consequence of war. But I'll state again, there is no army in the word that goes to the measures ours does to minimize civilian loss.

    You asked, "what is the difference between and innocent civilian victim of a bomb left on a bus in London and the innocent civilian victim of a bomb dropped by an American warplane in Fallujah?". I gave you the answer. If you have first hand knowledge of our soldiers in Iraq intentionally targeting Iraqi civilians, please contact the authorities and share that information with them so that they can be prosecuted. If not, then stop slandering our soldiers.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TerpsichoreToo
    Unintentional ? I think not ! The US has a term for these type of victims. It's called collateral damage...
    I see. So it's impossible for me to know their intentions, but somehow you do? Again, if you have first hand knowledge of our soldiers in Iraq intentionally targeting Iraqi civilians, please contact the authorities and share that information with them so that they can be prosecuted. If not, then stop slandering our soldiers.

    col·lat·er·al adj. Of a secondary nature; subordinate.

    That term is used to illustrate that the civilians were not the intended targets. Again, can someone show me an army in the world that puts forth more of an effort to minimize civilian loss? If you're against the war in Iraq, fine. But save your hostility for the politicians at home and give the poor kids over there a break.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Here's a useful link for supporters of the Iraq War:

    http://www.goarmy.com/contact/how_to_join.jsp?hmref=cs


    The Army is having serious recruitment problems. What's your excuse for not signing up?

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    I think we should allow terrorists to shoot, bomb, kidnap, behead, and kill anyone they want, because if we do something we might hurt some innocent child.

    That's called sarcasm folks. Maybe our "The US is so EVIL as to target children" posters have some options.

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    Banned TerpsichoreToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    I see. So it's impossible for me to know their intentions, but somehow you do?
    I never questioned if you personaly knew or did not know the intentions. Nor did I say I personaly knew their intentions. To say I did say either thing is a flat out lie. Also I spoke in support of the soliders, not against them.

    Now what I did do was point out that it is impossible to attack a city and not expect to kill some innocent people. It is par for the course in a war.

    One can not call it unintentional when a direct order is given to attack. The attack is intentional and therefore killing the innocents is also intentional.

    Some people view it as an unfortunate by product and others view it as revenge. And still others view it as simply wrong.

    Funny though how when it's innocent non Muslim people who die or get hurt in an attack the war supporters scream foul. But when it's innocent Muslims suddenly it's less of a tragedy.

    I don't understand that mindset and I am glad I'm not the type who does too.

    Maybe our "The US is so EVIL as to target children" posters have some options.
    Well a good start would be not to attack countries who had no part in 9/11 and instead go after those that did. Another would be not to bomb hospitals and schools. And still another would be not to use weapons that cause diseases.

    And maybe it might help to just accept that terrorism occurs and always has . It's part of life. No one will be able to wipe it out completely. Even our President admitted as much not too long ago.

    Instead of attacking a country that was no threat to us and creating more terrorist than every before we could have focused on securing things in our own country . Things such as power plants, water supply and so on which all remain mostly open and easy targets for bio terrorism even after all this time after 9/11.
    Last edited by TerpsichoreToo; 07-09-2005 at 01:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    I think we should allow terrorists to shoot, bomb, kidnap, behead, and kill anyone they want, because if we do something we might hurt some innocent child..
    Didn't you get the memo? Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the terrorists who attacked us on 9-11, remember? Even Bush has been forced to admit that.

    But Iraq has everything to do with the terrorists who attacked in London, so if we want to be safer from terrorists, I'd suggest we set a timetable for withdrawing our troops from Iraq and using our resources instead to hunt down that guy and his gang, what was his name again, I can barely remember,,, Ozzie something?

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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Y'know, if we lost this whole "sanctity of life" garbage and turned the Middle East into glass, it would solve a lot of problems .

    It'll probably happen once the first dirty bomb goes off in the US, I guess.

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    Banned TerpsichoreToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Oh yeah sure that will make people want to not kill us alot more ( sarcasm)

    Are you enlisted ?

    If the answer is no, why not being that you feel that way ?

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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Can't, in a wheelchair.

    Do you think the extremists will rest until the infidels are annihilated?

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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    It'll probably happen once the first dirty bomb goes off in the US, I guess
    Only if it causes 100,000+ civilian casualties ! Otherwise, many will still cling to the 'we deserved it' paradigm and will still oppose large scale military retaliation.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did the terrorists attack London, and not Paris or Berlin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biz
    Do you think the extremists will rest until the infidels are annihilated?
    Extremists like George W. Bush care about notthing but high profits and low taxes for the oil companies and super-rich elites that control them.

    He certainly cares nothing for the Americans who've died in combat thanks to his lies. He hasn't even attended a single funeral of a slain soldier.

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