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Thread: The True Teachings of Islam

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    Default The True Teachings of Islam

    This thread is intended to expell the incorrect information and impression many people in this section have about Muslim people and their chosen faith.

    It is my hope that those with actual personal knowledge of the religion and the culture post here and explain and or refute the common misunderstandings that people( in particular republican or christian conservatives) often have about Islam.

    I am going to request that those who have negative opinions of the religion and of those who follow it refrain from posting in this thread. If you feel the need to comment I am requesting you start a different thread.

    Please show some respect and honor this request. Thanks.

    I will open the discussion with the following information that was given to me by a friend who has a masters in religious education:

    Terrorist activities caused by malice, ill will and dishonesty, are being projected as rooted in the teachings of Islam. In that context, reference is made to three issues of Islamic Shariah. (1) The teaching of Islam about killing a Non-Muslim is Jihad (2) Islam teaches hatred and legitimizes fight against other religions and their followers. (3) It encourages intolerance towards the followers of other religions. All the three breed terrorism.

    All the three allegations about Islamic Shariah are misconceived and motivated by malice and ignorance. Jehad finds a place in the teachings of lslam, but not for killing Non-Muslims. There is no provision encouraging perpetual hatred and fight against the followers of other religions. Linking Islam, a religion of peace with terrorism itself amounts to an act of terrorism.


    Islam as a religion is totally committed to peace and security. It views with great contempt, breach of peace, anarchy, rioting and terrorism. Muslims as Ummah are a peace-loving community. Jehad under Islam is allowed subject to certain con*ditions. It is meant for elevating the Word of God (Kalmatullah). Action designated as Jihad has been recommended for securing justice for the suppressed, assisting them in their efforts to secure that. It is also for protecting the places of worship of people belonging to different religions. Its aim is to resist the oppressors and prevent them from committing atrocities. It provides for complete impartiality and full justice in dealing with persons belonging to other religions.

    Th Quran makes it explicit that killing an innocent person is equivalent to killing the whole humankind.

    A verse in Surah Maidah states, "If anyone slew a person* unless it be for murder or for speading mischief in the land* it would be as If he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life. It would be as if he saved the lift of the whole people. " (Al-Maidah. verse 32)

    In different forms at several places in Quran, unjustified murder has been strongly condemned. Respect and protection of human life has been sufficiently stressed. Holy Quran commands: "Nor take life-which Allah has made sacred-except for just cause. " (Bani Isreal, verse 33) Murder is justified only in case of an assassin, guilty of the murder of an innocent person, as recompense.

    According to Islamic Shariah, whether it is the matter of an individual, group or ideological difference, persons who are not concerned or related to a particular action, cannot be held respon*sible for the action of others. For example, if the communal elements suppress or victimize members of Muslim minority of India, destroy the mosques and madrasas, it is not incumbent on the people of Muslim-majority areas to ill treat the Non-Muslim minority or destroy their places of worship. It is injustice and atrocity to blame someone not concerned with an act, for the act committed by others.

    However, legitimate possible methods may be adopted for opposition to oppression and excesses. Holy Quran makes it clear, "Namely, that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. " (AI-Qamar, verse 3

    Before the advent of Islam, the custom of "Saar" was prevalent. If someone was killed, the members of the tribe of the victim had their revenge by killing a member of the tribe of the assassin. It was not necessary that the assassin be killed for revenge. In that process, several innocent persons got killed merely due to their affiliation with a particular tribe.

    The Prophet (pbuh} strictly prohibited the practice as it belonged to the era of ignorance and darkness. As in the case of 'Saar' persons were killed due to their tribal affiliation, likewise killing persons on account of their religious, linguistic or national affiliation also is a crime. In the Age of Great Caliphate and subsequently, the just rulers did not interfere in the religious matters of their enemies, even during the battles.

    During the crusade, Salahuddin Ayyubi did not victimize the Christians of Syria, Palestine and other places although he was at war with their co-religionists. Instructions in detail have been given in the books of Islamic jurisprudence & Sunnah about the treatment of Non-Muslim subjects and those under contract.

    Islamic jurisprudence allows punishment of the culprit accord*ing to the gravity of the crime, permitting revenge equal to the injury caused. Pardon is preferred to punishment.

    Holy Quran has several verses, elaborating the point, "And so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (Surah Al Baqarah, verse 194) .

    "And if ye punish, let your punishment be proportionate to the wrong that has been done to you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient. "(Surah Al Nahl, verse 126)

    It means that if you suffer injuries and if you are competent, you may take revenge of the same degree. Revenge is permitted but self-restraint or forbearance is preferable. If you are patient that would be better for you and those who are witness. (Fawaid-e-Usmani).

    "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. " (Surah Al Baqarah, verse 190)

    Refraining from committing excesses in this context implies that during the battle, children, aged persons and women should not be killed. Revenge against a tyrant should be of defensive type, limited to the degree of injury suffered. The intention is to dissuade the tyrants and oppressors from committing further atrocities and excesses.

    The orbit of suppression should not grow wider. Vindictive action against persons belonging to the tribe or the community of the assassin, but who have nothing to do with an atrocity, leads to further enlargement of the area of hostility. Accordingly Islamic Shariah permits action directly only against the culprit.

    That covers all terrorist activities, which affect innocent persons, or others not directly or indirectly connected with the cause of hostility. There is no clear direction or instruction applying to kidnapping innocent persons for the acceptance of certain demands or slow torture with the intention of killing in the most inhuman and brutal manner.

    However the principles laid down, prohibiting killing or tar*geting innocent persons are applicable to such cases also. Arson, racial cleansing, atrocities on people worshiping according to the practices laid down for their creed, rampage and destruction have no place in the teachings of Islam. Islam has strictly forbidden arson and murder of an envoy even in the course of battle.

    The Prophet (Pbuh) has strictly forbid assassination in a brutal and painful manner. Likewise animals too should not be killed in that manner. Passengers of hijacked planes and persons taken hostage too, suffer in the same manner. Hijacking too is a threat to peace and freedom so it has no support in the Islamic Shariah. Such acts done, even with the most noble and great cause in mind have no justification under Islamic jurisprudence.
    Last edited by TerpsichoreToo; 07-10-2005 at 02:01 PM.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Islam presents the best practical model of tolerance. It is a baseless fabrication that Islam is not disposed to tolerating people belonging to other creeds, ideologies and religions. The history of Islam offers models of religious tolerance and best treatment of persons belonging to different faiths. Islam certainly claims to be the right religion, but doesn't teach that the persons holding different creeds and different ideas should be eliminated by forte. It aims to create suitable atmosphere for the principle "live and let live." While emphasizing and preaching truth, it stands opposed to eliminate 'untruth' by force or suppression.

    Surah Al Kafiroon makes it clear, "To you be your Way, and to me mine." "Let there be no compulsion in religion. " (Surah Al Baqarah, verse 256).

    The great authority on the interpretation of Islam, Ibn-e-Kaseer may be cited in support of the view. He said that none should be forced to embrace Islam. The logic in support of Islam is crystal clear; the arguments in its support do not require that anybody should be compelled to adopt Islam. He has expressed the view while explaining the verse from Surah Al Kafiroon. According to Islam blasphemy, infidelity, and paganism are heinous and unpardonable crimes. However, reviling the practices and worship of anything other than Allah has been forbidden. Verse 108 of Surah Al-Inaam makes it clear, "Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah. " Besides infidels Islam advocates co-existence with the Christians and Jews in an atmosphere of peace and tolerance. Several important points have been laid down to ensure that. If those are observed and put into practice, social and religious conflict of every type may be avoided. The most important among them is adoption of agreed and unanimous approach about common issues.

    In the. Verse No. 64 of Surah Aal-e-Imran, the Holy Quran states, "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah. "Islam equally respects all prophets and messengers of God. Discrimination among them in respect of their being prophet is regarded as blasphemy. Faith requires belief in all those who have preceded our Prophet. Without the acceptance of that faith remains incomplete. Difference and distance among the followers of different religions arises, when one starts differentiating among the leaders of mankind. For sanctity of Faith belief in the unity of prophet hood is necessary.

    "The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith, each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers.

    "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of his Messengers. " (AI Baqarah. verse 285)

    Islam has invited attention to another important point, "The concept of unity of mankind"

    "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most rightenous of you." (Surah Al Hujurat, verse 13)

    From the human angle there is no impediment to the treatment of persons belonging to other religions and ideologies in a fair and equitable manner. The Holy Quran guides in the matter.

    "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are just. "(Surah Mumtahina, verse

    Justice and fair play are pre requisite for a healthy and peaceful society. Disruption of peace is the reaction of terror, injustice and atrocity. In view of that Islam has placed great emphasis on adhering to justice and fair play irrespective of distinction of creed and community. Islam has prohibited partiality in the matter of justice, even if it concerns your blood relation.

    “O ye who Believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah. even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. " (Surah Al Nisaa, verse 135)

    "O ye who Believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fiar Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. " (Surah Al Maidah, Verse

    According to Islamic ideology all human beings stand equal for respect and kind consideration.

    "We have honored the sons of Adam. " (Surah Bani israel, verse 70)

    Therefore a human being who is respectable should not be subjected to atrocity and unjust treatment because that is disrespect and dishonor to him. The Prophet (pubh) declared that the protest of the victim of atrocity, irrespective of his creed and religion has the prospect of being heard by Allah. Discrimination among human beings is against humanitarian considerations.

    According to Imam Mohammad when there was famine in Mecca, the Prophet (Pbuh) sent goods for their relief, although he knew that the people of Mecca were not Muslims. (AI Sharh-ul-sair-I-Kabeer, Part I, pp144)

    According to Shariah, the Prophet (Pbuh) has urged the help of neighbors. It is not necessary that the neighbor be a Muslim. It is enough that he is neighbor. The Islamic State assures the security of life and property. It also guarantees religious, economic, commercial and educational freedom for Non-Muslim subjects. Islamic Shariah does not permit discrimination between Muslim and Non-Muslim in the matters of security of life and property. According to Imam Abu Yusuf, harassing a Non-Muslim of Islamic State invites Divine Wrath. (Kitab-ul-Khiraj, pp125)

    If a Muslim borrows money from a Non-Muslim subject of an Islamic State, and does not pay back, the Qazi may imprison him till he returns the amount. It is the obligation of an Islamic State that it should redress the grievances and sufferings of its Non-Muslim subjects. Speaking against them also is prohibited.

    According to Allama Shami, oppression of Non-Muslim subjects is a grave and serious crime.

    (For details please refer to Durre Mukhtar ma-al-Shami Volume III pp344 t0346)

    If the Non-Muslims subjects of an Islamic State are poor and needy, they should be supported and helped from the funds of Islamic Bait-ul-Mal. (Kitab-ul-Khiraj pp144)

    Under the regime of Hazrat Umar a treaty was executed with the people of Quds that provided for security of life and property as well as protection of the church, the cross and other religious symbols. Assurance was given that there shall be no interference in the affairs of the Church. The churches will not be demolished or desecrated, the cross shall not be taken away or the funds seized. There shall be no force or compulsion in the affairs of religion. Nobody shall be harassed. (Tarikh-e-Tabari, Part IlL pp 609)

    The treaty executed by Hazrat Khalid bin Valeed with the people of Aanaat, provided for the freedom to ring bells any time throughout day or night whenever they liked and move about with the crosses during their festivities. (Kitab-ul-Khiraj, Imam Yusuf. pp146)

    The authorities of Islamic jurisprudence have discussed in detail, the commercial freedom of Non-Muslim citizens under Islamic regime. Only trade in liquor is forbidden because it leads to disorder in society. Excluding that they have complete freedom to carry on any other trade or industry. That totally refutes the allegation that Islam or Muslims do not believe in co-existence with Non-Muslims, or under Islam there is no scope of tolerance of persons professing other religions. The false propaganda, carrying such series of al*legations is regrettable and is based on ignorance of facts.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    It is well known that the concept of Jehad is subject to certain conditions. Jehad is meant for upholding the uprightness of the Word of Allah, for the victory of the suppressed, for safeguarding the places of worship and for defence against the aggression and atrocities of the tyrants. It is not meant for eliminating other religions, destruction of their places of worship or unwarranted massacre of Non-Muslims. For propagation and acceptance of its teachings Islam recommends interesting and suitable form of preaching, persuasion and discussion.

    "Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious. "(Surah Al Nahl, verse 125) Do not utilize power of the sword and so-called ‘Jehad'.

    Permission for Jehad has been given for defence or in un*avoidable circumstances, that too, subject to certain conditions. It does not mean that if you find a Non-Muslim or their group, you rush for beheading them.

    In Islamic Shariah, the direction or order for killing is ap*plicable to those enemies of Islam, engaged in fight against Muslims. It applies to such enemies of Islam who are determined to seize their lands. Not only that they are determined to deny the freedom to pronounce the name of Allah on the earth. So far as peace *loving and non-fighting parsons are concerned, who are not inclined to murder the servants of Allah, nor they are interested in throwing them out of their homes, Islamic Shariah does not recommend or permit Jehad against them. On the contrary Islamic Shariah empha*sizes treating them in fair and just manner, as explained earlier.

    Objectives of Jehad:

    Objectives of Jehad as laid down in Islamic Shariah do not provide that the earth should be free from the followers of religions other than Islam. The main object of Jehad is defence against the tyrants by restraining the aggressor from continuing atrocities.

    "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;-and verily, Allah is Most Powerful for their aid;- (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right, - (for no cause) except that they say, "Our Lord is Allah". (Surah Al Hajj. Verse 39-40)

    The suppressed are permitted to fight against enemies of Islam and infidels, because they are oppressed and Allah has the power to help them. The victims are those who have been thrown out of their houses for no fault of theirs. Their only fault is nothing else but thy claim that their Providence is Allah.

    Verse 190 ofSurah Al Baqarah recommends fight with those who take the initiative to fight Muslims. Further it has been provided hat there would be no excess in the matter.

    "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits. " There are many similar verses in the Holy Quran, in which the object of Jehad has been defined 'self-defence'. The suppressed Muslims are those who are victims of aggression..

    2. There is another purpose of the fight. It may be fought to save others, who are weak and suppressed by the tyrants.

    It has been stated in the verse 75 ofSurah Al Nisaa: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed}?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town.

    Whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Thee one who will protect; and raise for us from Thee one who will help!"

    The verse refers to two objects of Jehad, for Allah as well as in support of the weak and suppressed. The latter is included in the former. Jehad in support of the suppressed is also for Allah. That verse confirms that Jehad is the practical response to the cry for assistance by the afflicted and suffering to their God.

    3. According to Holy Quran an important object of Islamic Jehad is the protection of places of worship. The definition of a place of worship does not include the places of worship belonging to only Muslims. That refers to the places of worship belonging to the followers of other religions also.

    "Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosque, in which the name of Allah is com*memorated in abundant measure." (Surah Al Hajj, verse 40)

    It is worth noting that by according priority to the places of worship, belonging to other religions e.g. Jews and Christians, Islam has provided an ideal specimen of tolerance.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    4. Another important object of Jehad is end of mischief in the Society and upper hand for the religion of Allah. Mischief implies everything, which creates problems on account of distinction between the Right and Wrong. Among them, the pride of place belongs to paganism and blasphemy, as they qualify for death. Paganism and blasphemy refer to elements that are inimical to Believers. Those who are bent upon destroying Islam and Muslims. That definition excludes Non-Muslims who are peace loving and willing to live with cordial relations with Muslims.

    Surah AI Baqarah, which advocates Jehad against enemies of Islam, for end of mischief, also recommends peaceful living with fraternal and cordial relations with peace-loving Non-Muslims. Verses 190 to 194 clarify the position, "And fight them on until there is no more persecution and the religion becomes Allah S. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. " (Surah Al Baqarah, verse 193)

    Wherever Jehad for killing is mentioned in Holy Quran, it refers to defense in the state of war. In normal conditions of peace, fight with peace-loving followers of other religions is not envisaged. However, if information is available about the preparations for aggression by a group and if strategy demands, initiative for Jehad is permitted. However, that is rare. In the history of Islam many among the battles are of defensive type and not of the aggressive type. For propagation of Islam the right method is of peaceful proclamation and not Jehad and fight.

    Rules and Conditions of Jehad:

    Islamic Jehad is not unprovoked armed conflict of action against enemies, motivated by national sentiment or extension of domain, as projected by enemies of Islam. Under Islamic Shariah certain rules and regulations are attached to it. The first condition of Jehad is that it should be for upholding the name of Allah. If the conflict is for personal fame or for acquisition of land, wealth or other material benefits, it has nothing to do with Jehad. Judged from the standards laid down by Shariah, it has no merit at all. Therefore, the condition, "For the sake of Allah" has been laid down for Jehad. In the books of Islamic history and Islamic jurisprudence there are many traditions and events, in which, battles have been waged for personal ends or in pursuance of regional or national sentiments. Such conflicts have been excluded from the category of Jehad. According to a famous tradition of the Prophet that one who fights or dies, motivated by prejudice is not one among us. (Kitab-ul-Jehad, Abu Dawood)

    Battle for national cause, caste or community does not qualify for Jehad Islamic Jehad is only for upholding the name and message of Allah. According to Kitab-ul-Jehad of Bukhari, the fight for upholding the name of Allah is Jehad for Allah.

    Jehad is not an individual action. Jehad does not mean that anyone rises and starts fighting somebody. According to Islamic Shariah, Islamic Jehad can be conducted by a government or elected leader according to Shariah. That has been laid down in an estab*lished tradition. (Muslim Shrreef, Kitabul-Emarat) An Imam, according to Shariah is like a shield for leading the fight The rules and conditions attached to Jehad have been discussed in detail in the books of Islamic jurisprudence.

    According to Ibn-e-Qodama Hanbali, the matters relating to Jehad depend on the discretion of the Imam or leader. The elected leader, Imam or Ameer shall lead Jehad, defensive or offensive. Another condition laid down is that the required strength and resources accompany Jehad and it is conducted independently. Unless the required conditions are fulfilled Jehad is neither justified nor likely to serve a useful purpose.

    When Jehad is a necessity according to Shariah, those opting for Jehad do not have independent or autonomous position. Without the direction or consent of the leader, the Imam or Ameer a few individually or as a group opt for extraordinary action like Jehad, that is likely to cause disruption and mischief. That will provide the aggressor with the opportunity for further aggressive activities.

    Therefore it is essential for Jehad that requisite strength is available under the leadership of the elected leader, to ensure desired results.

    But if someone is killed while defending his legitimate rights, life and property against the aggressors, he shall be deemed a martyr and his fight shall qualify for Jehad.

    Rules and Limitations of Jehad:

    In addition to the conditions, Islam has laid down certain rules and limitations for Jehad. From Islamic point of view, Jehad is constructive action for ending mischief. It is not desperate action for loot, destruction and carnage.

    Prohibition of killing of the aged and worshippers. Even during a battle Islam has strictly forbidden arson, killing of women, children, aged, worshippers and those incapable or participating in the battle. At several places in Holy Quran, it has been emphasized that it should be ensured that those not connected with the battle should not be harmed. Fight should be confined to the participants in the battle. The Prophet (Pbuh) has clearly dissuaded from killing persons not concerned with the battle. "Do not kill the weak, small children, women and aged during the battle." (Kitab-ul-Jehad by Abu Dawood)

    Islamic jurists have held that even the intention of killing the weak, aged, women and children is unlawful even in the course of battle. Killing the worshippers and priests, who keep aloof from the fight, is forbidden. Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Abu Mohammad in 'Aseer-ul-Kabeer' have cited the opinion of Imam Abu Hanifa on the subject. Other details may be found in Al Mabsoot, Volume X by Imam Sarkhasi and Allama Mawardi in 'Ahkam-us-Sultaniya'.

    Prohibition of Devastation. Islam has strictly forbidden general devastation. Unless it is unavoidable, the fields, orchards and settle*ments should not be destroyed. Killing innocent persons has been declared unlawful. In the present civilized world everything belonging to enemies, although having nothing to do with the battle is targeted for destruction. However, Islam regards that disorder and mischief.

    "When he turns his back, his aim everywhere is to spread mischief through the earth and destroy crops and progeny but Allah /oveth not mischief" (Surah Al Baqarah, verse 205)

    Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddiq, while sending off the troops, in*structed them that fruit-bearing trees should not be cut or burnt. Settlements and crops should not be destroyed. (Kitab-ul-Jehad by Imam Malik)

    In the course of a battle the prophet (pbuh) came to know that a few Muslim soldiers had looted goats and intended to cook and eat their meat. He turned upside down the utensil used for cooking.

    Similarly during the Battle of Khaibar, after Peace Treaty was executed with the people of Khaibar. A few fresher of the Islamic Army beat Jew women, forcibly took away their fruits, took pos*session of their animals and consumed them. The chiefs of the Jews lodged a complaint with the Prophet. The Prophet sternly addressed his soldiers, 'Allah has not held it proper for your that you may enter the houses of men of Books, without their permission and maltreat their women and take possession of their fruits.'

    Islam forbids the murder of prisoners. The commitment of Islam to peace is confirmed by the provision that it forbids pursuit of men fleeing from the scene of war.

    After the conquest of Mecca, the Prophet (pbuh) issued special instructions that Islam is dedicated and committed to peace, justice and humanity. There is no place of disorder and terrorism in Islam. Islam invites mankind towards virtue. Those who link Islam, its teachings and symbols, practices, institutions with destruction and terrorism are terrorists themselves and pose a threat to peace, security and healthy civilized life. Islam remains the best specimen of peace and a lighthouse for the whole humanity.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Wow, I really appreciate this thread. I know that alot of people on SW won't even take the time out to read it all. They would rather keep up with their usual ASSumptions.







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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    I am going to request that those who have negative opinions of the religion and of those who follow it refrain from posting in this thread. If you feel the need to comment I am requesting you start a different thread.

    Please show some respect and honor this request. Thanks.
    Classic TL if there ever was...

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    HEH! Hey, I dont mind starting a negative thread..just say go!

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by cinammonkisses
    Wow, I really appreciate this thread. I know that alot of people on SW won't even take the time out to read it all. They would rather keep up with their usual ASSumptions.
    Or, as my ex-brother in law used to say, "It is MY opinion, and it is very true."

    TerpsichoreToo, I hope you don't mind, but I posted this in your other thread too. The postings here have been interesting, and I intend to follow along. There is one thing most of us don't consider when thinking about Islam: They aren't any different than the rest of us, and they can laugh too.

    In one of my rare serious moments, I began looking into websites concerning the subject of Islam, and began corresponding with a couple of people who not only were Islamic, but also very, very funny. Leave it to me to try to do something serious, and stumble into a group of Islamic Comedians(-ennes). Yes, they do exist. A humorous outlook can diffuse a lot of problems.


    Their site is at http://www.islamicaweb.com/

    This is extremely rare. I never give out my sources of the bad jokes I deliver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerpsichoreToo
    Jehad is meant for upholding the uprightness of the Word of Allah, for the victory of the suppressed, for safeguarding the places of worship and for defence against the aggression and atrocities of the tyrants. .
    I would venture to suggest taht ALL terorists think they are doing something of this nature. I doubt that very many of them actauly think of themselves as terrorists, but imagine they are advancing some important and sacred agenda.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TerpsichoreToo

    "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most rightenous of you." (Surah Al Hujurat, verse 13)

    ......

    "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are just. "(Surah Mumtahina, verse

    Justice and fair play are pre requisite for a healthy and peaceful society. Disruption of peace is the reaction of terror, injustice and atrocity. In view of that Islam has placed great emphasis on adhering to justice and fair play irrespective of distinction of creed and community. Islam has prohibited partiality in the matter of justice, even if it concerns your blood relation.

    .....

    "O ye who Believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fiar Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. " (Surah Al Maidah, Verse

    According to Islamic ideology all human beings stand equal for respect and kind consideration.


    ......

    Those of us who have even a passing acquaintance with the Bible will recognise similar passages in that document. It also teaches tolerence and respect for all people.

    However

    Christians and all other large religius groups have, at some time in their history, VIOLATED these teacings and done thier own thing.

    They probably believed that they were perfectly within their rights and religous teaching to do so.

    Just because the the documents and offcials of a religion lay out how hteir religion is followed, does not necessarily guarentee that future generations will comply.

    My .02.


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    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by colleen

    Just because the the documents and offcials of a religion lay out how hteir religion is followed, does not necessarily guarentee that future generations will comply.

    My .02.
    Absolutely right. Just because the doctrine says something doesn't mean it's going to be interpreted the proper way it was intended. Christianity doesn't teach torture thy fellow neighbor until he believes in Jesus yet that's what happened during the Inquisitions. Does this mean that the religion is bad? Of course not. It just means that some psychopath got control of the religion and used it for the purposes of evil. That's the challenge with Islam these days. We aren't dealing with peaceful muslims around the world. We are dealing with a large amount of lunatics who have been corrupted by evil people at the top to do their bidding. The peaceful muslims are being peaceful IN SPITE of what their own religion teaches, not because of it.

    May I remind everyone that not all Muslims are terrorists, but ALL acts of terrorism in the last 30 years were committed by muslims. Even if you include the Oklahoma City bombings, it was committed by an atheist with non-terrorist intents. All others, Muslim. All the way from the killings of American athletes in the Olympics some 35 years ago to the London bombings just a few short days ago...all Muslims.

    Sorry kids, but forget what you've been hearing from people like Tigerlilly here. Although I'm sure there are many peaceful Islamists, those are the minority. Here's a real gem from the Koran:

    "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (Koran 8:12)

    Do the names Nicholas Berg, Daniel Pearl or Eugene Armstrong sound farmiliar? They were all beheaded on television not all that long ago.

    How about this though:

    "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks ofuntil when you have overcome them...and as for those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish." (Koran 47:4)

    Wow...what a nice peaceful group.

    Hey Tigerlilly, I bet you didn't know this, but do you actually know what "Islam" means? It's translation is actually "Submission". I bet you didn't know that, did you?

    Also, what are your thoughts on the fact that the Koran teaches that it is perfectly okay to beat your wife? I'll quote again:

    "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them." (Koran, Surah 4:34).

    And last, my favorite part. Did you know that during the late 90's, muslim groups in numerous middle-eastern countries were running a television show called "The Childrens Club". This show, much like Sesame Street in the U.S., had fun characters and muppets and singing etc. The only catch was that this show was designed to turn young tots into suicice bombers. Allow me to quote a few verses:

    February 6, 1998: "When I wanter into the entrance of Jerusalem, I'll turn into a suicide warrior, in battledress."

    May 22, 1998: "I shall take my sold in my hadn and throw it into the abyss of death. On your life, I foresee my death. But I march quickly towards my death. Am I afraid? For me life has little value. Because I am returning to my Lord and my people will know I am a hero."

    July 2, 1998: "Occupier, your day is near, then we will settle our account. We will settle our claims with stones and bullets."

    Yep, you're right, TL...sure sounds like a religion of love and peace to me!

    This all being said, I really do believe we are in a transition right now with Islamic fanatics much the same way we were with Chrisitan lunatics hundreds of years ago. The inmates are running the asylum now.

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    Veteran Member lwtex52's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    I believe Islam to be a religion of peace. All faiths have their lunatics. The muslims have the funadmentalists today. The Christians have had the Ku Klux Klan and the anti-abortionists that bomb clinics.

    In fact, a trial just ended regarding the bombing that killed many black schoolchildren forty years ago. I remember when it happened, and it was done "In the name of God".
    My latest conspiracy theory: I am convinced that Dick Cheney is, in reality, Elmer Fudd.

  13. #13
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    but ALL acts of terrorism in the last 30 years were committed by muslims. Even if you include the Oklahoma City bombings, it was committed by an atheist with non-terrorist intents.
    That's a hair-splitting I don't follow. I view the Oklahoma City bombing as terrorist by a non-Muslim.

    Abortion clinic bombings.
    Bombings and shootings by Sinn Fein, IRA, and Provos.
    The Columbine killings. I guess you could split hairs about whether it was simple mass murder or terrorism, but it seemed terror-motivated to me.
    Basque separatists.
    Chechnyan separatists.
    Baruch Goldstein's massacre of Palestinians.
    Actions of Shining Path terrorists.
    A few massacre missions in Africa here and there with the intent of terrorizing an ethnic crowd.
    Hindu and Sikh terrorism on each other.

    No, I don't think you can safely say "all." You could safely say, "Easily, the greatest number and visibility of terrorist acts."

  14. #14
    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    .

    No, I don't think you can safely say "all." You could safely say, "Easily, the greatest number and visibility of terrorist acts."
    That's fair. One other thing to consider though is that of all the groups you stated, combined they do not equal the total number of muslims in the world today...not even close. I think the current estimate now is about 2/3 of the planet is Muslim now. Sweden and the Netherlands are being overun by Muslim extremists so bad now they are admittedly losing control of their countries to them. Did you know that the Koran now was mandatory reading in schools in DENMARK?

    Oh, here's one more jewel that I bet you didn't hear about. In May of 2004, Muslim children with machetes and clubs murdered over 600 christians in Nigeria. They burned over a dozen churches and set fire to numerous houses with Christian families trapped INSIDE. Many of the dead were women and children with one witness confirming that the bodies of pregnant women were also ripped open and thier bodies then burned alive. As the final kicker of this religion of "peace", they ran over 30,000 Christians out of town.

    Oh, wait...one more...this peaceful group deserves one more accolate. In april of 2004, Javaid, a university student in Pakistan, was traveling to his grandfather's house when he got thirsty. He saw an outside water tap and took a drink. When confronted, he made the mistake of mentioning that hte was a Christian to several Muslim SEMINARY students who had accused him of stealing. The Muslims immediately dragged Javaid into their seminary where they tried to convince him through FIVE DAYS OF TORTURE to renounce his faith and embrace Islam, the religion of peace. After five days of torture (including electric shocks, pulling out his fingernails, breaking all of his fingers on his right hand, breaking his right arm, smashing both his feet, and routine punching to his abdomen), they dumped him off at a police station, charging him with theft with no evidence. They rushed him to the hospital where he died after having two failing kidneys after he made a statement about his treatment by these fanatics. The best part of the story is that NO police action was taken against the seminary students and even the constable said that it was "God's will" for Javaid to die the way he did.

    Obviously, they have a different definition of "peace" than I do.

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  15. #15
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    From Wikipedia:

    "On the Feast of Purim (February 1994), Dr. Baruch Goldstein, dressed as an army officer, entered the Tomb of the Patriarchs, and shot to death (i.e., murdered unarmed - JZ) 29 Arabs and wounded approximately a hundred more. It is our great misfortune that Dr. Baruch Goldstein may G-D avenge his blood, who was brutally murdered by the Arabs (in other words, beaten to death in this murderous rampage - JZ) is no longer with us.

    "Over the years, the grave has become a site of pilgrimage. Numerous people from all over the world come to pray and honor his memory. The Local Religious Council of Kiryat Arba declared the gravesite a cemetery."

    My only point is that terrorist hatred is not confined to one sample of religion.

    I think the current estimate now is about 2/3 of the planet is Muslim now.
    No offense, DW, but where do you get these statistics? Here's what I found:

    1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
    2. Islam: 1.3 billion
    3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
    4. Hinduism: 900 million
    5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
    6. Buddhism: 376 million
    7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
    8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
    9. Sikhism: 23 million
    10. Juche: 19 million
    11. Spiritism: 15 million
    12. Judaism: 14 million
    13. Baha'i: 7 million
    14. Jainism: 4.2 million
    15. Shinto: 4 million
    16. Cao Dai: 4 million
    17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
    18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
    19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
    20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
    21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
    22. Scientology: 500 thousand

  16. #16
    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    My only point is that terrorist hatred is not confined to one sample of religion.

    No offense, DW, but where do you get these statistics? Here's what I found:
    Of course Muslims don't have the single monopoly on terrorism, but whereas your example was one that was an isolated incident, muslim terrorists blow up so many busloads of schoolchildren every day it barely gets reported because it would be like reporting, "Another fender-bender happened on the freeway today". It's almost impossible to NOT hear about a car bombing every day by a Muslim extremist in fact.

    As for the statistic, it was a mistake that was completely my fault. I meant 20%...1/5, not 2/3. I was looking at something unrelated when I was typing. My bad completely.

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  17. #17
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    but whereas your example was one that was an isolated incident
    Well, sure. But your example of the Muslim seminarians was one example, too. So it drove the style for the counterpoint.

    Sure, I agree that terrorist acts by Muslims almost have a yawn accompanied with them. Want to talk about about the unreported acts by Irish Republicans, and North Irish Provos for the same reason?

    I'm not disputing, and I've made that clear, about the predominance of terrorism by Muslim groups. But if we want to focus on those and call them special to Islam followers - well, tragically, they're not.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    I think if we get back to the TITLE and purpose of the thread...it's to discuss the religion of Islam. Just as the KKK is not representative of Christians, and the IRA bombers are not representative of (us, as I have roots in County Cork) Irish Catholics, nor can we equate Islam with Terrorist.

    To say the majority are terrorists is horrible, unsubstantiated, slander/libel. You have this information on what authority? How can you possibly believe a visible, horrible minority is representative of a whole people? It's like saying GW and the NeoCons is representative of all Americans...or that KKK is representative of all whites (when non-protestant whites were among their hated groups).

    Great thread TT...alot of detail there I never knew.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    No offense, DW, but where do you get these statistics? Here's what I found:
    I found the same stats.
    (Although my book says that Scientology is grossly overestimated. "The actual membership in the Church of Scientology very likely does not exceed 45,000, despite the cult's claims that its domestic membership is more than 450,000.)
    But all the same numbers here!



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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    I guess the key question involves what percentage of other members of a particular religion are willing to lend tacit support to its terrorist fringe, what percentage of other members of a particular religion are willing to actively oppose its terrorist fringe, and what percentage of other members of a particular religion are willing to actively support its terrorist fringe. The muslims certainly appear to hold the all time negative record in this regard, even compared to Northern Ireland Catholics.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Certainly appear based on what? Media coverage of their fringe?

    Besides, just because a larger minority (maybe) of a group is bad, does that make the group bad? That would pretty much damn the whole southern protestant population of the US during the KKK heyday...and all italians too (because the mafia is rumored to be a great % of that group...which it isn't)

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    The hardest thing about books like the Quran and also, even, the Bible are that to be translated into English, it takes away from the actual meaning of the word. In English, there is one word for "love". In other languages, there are several...each dependant upon the form/way it is to be used. To say that you "love" a tree would use one phrase...to say that you "love" your children would be to use another. Translation is also done by human beings (duh) who have always "translated" everything to THEIR understanding. What ONE person will understand someone to be saying...another will understand that situation much differently. Which is why some crime cases are so hard to solve when you have eyewitnesses. Everyone has a different story about the same thing!

    The Quran (Koran) is a very peaceful religion. I know of many Muslims who are wonderful, peaceful, accepting people. THEY translate the Quran (Koran) much differently than the "terrorists" do.

    Even within Christian/Catholic religion, the "Eye for and eye and tooth for a tooth" phrase is translated, by masses, as meaning "do unto another as they have done unto you." Of course, this only refers to acts of violence...people forget to use this in times of peace (stingyness).

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Ghandi

    Every religion goes through "growth spurts". Right now, seems a lot of religions are acting like 3 year olds (I know...I've got a 3 year old). I want what I want and NOW! 3 year olds also tend to think that everyone is like they are. Put a mass of people who believe that they should be right together and you have terrorists and Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

    Christians/Catholics STILL believe that they are right by going into ages-old tribes and converting these people to be "true believers"...it destroys a way of life.

    All religions are good. Not all who practice those religions are good, however.

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    Veteran Member lwtex52's Avatar
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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    I've always felt that religion is a good thing, in moderation.
    My latest conspiracy theory: I am convinced that Dick Cheney is, in reality, Elmer Fudd.

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    Default Re: The True Teachings of Islam

    Suicide Car Bomber Kills 18 Iraqi Kids

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A suicide car bomb exploded next to U.S. troops handing out candy and toys, killing 18 children and teenagers Wednesday. Parents heard the shattering explosion and raced out to the discover the worst - children's mangled, bloodied bodies strewn on the street.


    Up to 27 people were killed by the blast in the Shiite Muslim neighborhood, including an American soldier. At least 70 people were injured, a newborn and three U.S. soldiers among them.

    Children's slippers lay piled near the blast crater not far from a crumbled child's bicycle as blood pooled in the street.

    Twelve of the dead were 13 or younger and six were between 14 and 17, said police Lt. Mohammed Jassim Jabr. Among the wounded was 4-day-old Miriam Jabber, cut slightly by flying glass and debris...
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