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Thread: On being a stuck-up dancer.

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    Default On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I have been reading a lot of threads lately both here and on the blue side.I have been dancing for 11 years. I have to make this statement:

    BE a stuck-up dancer.
    Why? you say.
    Because the line needs to be drawn between dancers and prostitutes.; and drawn clearly with a big black marker. There used to be a line. What happened to it?
    (Now, I really have nothing against prostitutes. Think it shoul be legal, really. But that is not what this business is about. Sure, there will always be girls who give it up on the side. As long as they keep it on the DL, who's to know?)
    My point is this : Act like a lady. ALL the time.
    The girls I started working with in 1994 were stuck-up bitches,but ladies. I was a day girl,and they were the queens of the night shift. Boy, did they look good. They carried themselves like they knew they were the best. And they backed it up with their dancing skill, their conversation, their apperance. They did not DARE walk in without a cute outfit on (just to walk in the door, mind you). The hair was always perfect; the manicure and pedicure done. The makeup was beautiful. The outfits were clean and classy, or cute-never trashy. Etc; etc.( AND THEY KNEW HOW TO MOVE!!)
    Most of all, they made you want to BE them. They made you want to walk like you owned the world. I learned not to be ashamed of what I did for a living, because I could tell that secretly all the men wanted to go out with them and all the women wanted to be them.
    This is going to soud harsh; but it is true. Women who don't do this job are "civilians". That is not derogatory, just different. The problem came when we tried to say that anyone can do this job. That is not true. To do this job well and enjoy it takes a certian kind of person. I could not be a nurse; I have compassion but cannot handle the realities of people hurt and dying on a 24 hour 7 day basis. I admire ppl that can. Do you see what I mean? You may think it is crazy to compare the two; I am just saying that it is possible that not every woman that walks through that door can do this. Those that cannot will never understand those of us that do. Therefore,they will never really know how to behave or present themselves appropriately in this world or ours.
    Nicolina said in a recent post:"Seriously, though...sucking face with some guy cause he buys you a couple bottles of champagne just seems so....civilian, doesn't it? "
    Yes; it is. If a guy wants that he can go to the local college bar and get it. We are supposed to be DIFFERENT than your local college bar.That is part of our appeal. Hiring these young (or not) girls that want it just for the thrill and are not serious about learning how to behave is cheapening our clubs and bringing the business into dangerous territory. I know us ladies don't have much control over the hiring; just making a point. Used to be when a girl was hired she was paired with a more experienced dancer who taught here what the "rules" were, both spoken and unspoken. What happened to this? Well, one, managers stopped requiring this,and two; the new girls stopped listening. I think if some of us became "stuck-up dancers" again, maybe we could inspire some of these girls to want to better their performance and apperance. I know not all can be saved, but we need to set a better example. The girls in 1994 did not speak to me until I had earned their respect by proving that I was serious about what I was doing. That made me try all the harder. Now I am one of the older girls in my club, and at least no one messes with me. I am never rude to a new girl, but am very non-commital until I can see that she is truly interested in how to make money but not be the slut of the world.
    You can be a lady and make money. It is possible. You can be a lady and be gir-next-door friendly to your regulars. You can be a lady and do extras.I don't like it, but as I said before,if you keep it on the DL and don't be too posessive/interfere with my money, I really don't consider it my biz.(as long as you don't get me put in jail in a raid because of your shit!)
    GUYS: I am NOT advocating that we should be stuck-up to you. I AM saying we should act like a lady until it is time not to...which is mostly in the VIP/couch/champagne room. You want a girl who can have fun and not disrespect herself-that is part of my defintion of a lady.You sometimes want a woman who seemes to be unreachable(the "fantasy, remember?) I try to be as friendly and open to gentlemen that come to my club as possible, but I make it clear that I am to be treated in a polite manner and will not take being talked down to. Again, the line. I am not a whore. That is simply not my job. I refuse to act like one to compete with some young stupid girl who won't show enough inishative (sp??) to learn this job the right way. Most guys with money want the chase of a woman who is acting like they might give it to them; but just far enough away (and lady-like) that they might not get it. So they spend more money to see if they can. If they wanted a $50 hooker they know where to go. They aren't there are they? They're right in front of you. Play the madonna-whore to the hilt.
    You probably think I am not being realistic. I do not claim to know how it is in your club, or what your personal situation may be. I am not trying to be judgemental; I just think the biz as a whole could use an injection of girls who are proud to be who they are and ACT LIKE IT. Put your nose in the air-you have a right to. You are a beautiful, sexy, sensuous woman who can walk into any topless/nude bar in the world and get a job. And do it well. You can run faster in 5 inch heels than most guys you know.That is something to be proud of. I know you are self-concious. So am I. So are we all. Fuck it. However,this does not mean you look down same nose at others.
    Let's make this job sensuous and MYSTERIOUS again. Make it an intitiation process. New girls should strive to reach where you are; even if they are just in it for a few years. Get it?
    I miss you old-schoolers. We really aren't that old. Let's show them what we've learned....

    Sorry about the spelling; spell-check isn't working.
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    "I want to entertain people who wish to be entertained, not be an expensive but poor substitute for someone who can't find themselves a prostitute."-Asurfel
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    LilDreamer, thanks for your very inspiring letter. I havent started yet , I am currently in training and I have had concerns about having to act trashy to get a dance. I am one of those girls that would prefer to wear sexy yet classy langerie when I dance as well as be myself when speaking to clients and the fact that you wrote all of that has helped me decide what kind of an image I want to portray.
    Its a shame you are not in South Africa, you would be fantastic at not only motivational speaking but training as well.
    I was looking on n internet site for Dita Von Teese yetsrday and that girls clothing and style to me is just gorgeous, she is so sensual and as far as I am cncerened she is in no way trashy whatsoever.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Although I find a line between Stuck Up and Being A Lady, I applaud this post.
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Its great to hear someone speak the truth finally. Is is not obvious that when a man walks into a dancing club that is exactly what he should be wanting-a dance. If he is looking for other than that, there are other places where he can get it. I agree with Lildreamer that there is nothing wrong with prostitution but there is a time and a place for it. I am a dancer, I never have and never will offer anything other than that and resent the dancers that do offer more and give the rest of us a bad name. Girls who dress and act in a trasy way do not look sexy, they look desperate and in my opinion will never last long term in this industry. How can you continue to make money year on year if you give everything away on a plate? Stripping used to be an art. Some clubs you walk into now seem to resemble a student bar, full of young girls in hot pants and tank tops, hobling around in too high heels. I say hear, hear, bring back the stuck up dancer!
    x

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Great post Lildreamer!!


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    Pamela
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I was "stuck up" as the other dancers said to staff. Fuck em. I was NOT stuck up to any customers!

    I did not talk to any dancers, and did not freely (often anyway) give advice. If a newbie asked a question, she got an answer, and then i would just simply look at her like "what else do you need." They got the hint. I did not want to be bothered. I never made friends inside the club, and never loaned out anything, even when asked for a tampon...Nope.

    I danced many years, and for ALOT of those years the same up-scale club. There was a pecking order, and i learned this right off the bat. Of course me not taking the job too serious when i started i became a "bitch" right off the bat. At least as most would say who i danced around.

    But i sooned learned all this behaviour i was sending out earned me respect! I only had one problem, my car scratched at work. Solution, don't drive to work anymore! I asked no questions about it, and really got no volunteers...Why would i?

    I came in dressed in normal enough clothing, changed out in the dressing room, and did my thing. Starting as a stage girl only, i loved the attention from MEN. The other dancers..competetion, so i would use ways to bang them out of that status that seemed to be flying around a few other dancers on my shift, with clothing or lack of, my toll free to see when i was working again, and sitting for a few with a new customer, and spending more time with regulars. I watched what the other dancers gave in the way of attention. Good attention. And i gave better, she bought a customer a drink, i woulf buy him 2!!!

    She would give a ld which i hated, but started to give ld's after a few years to up my earnings, and gave more friction!!!!! Contact!!!

    Yep, i won a contest that is how i got into dancing. And soon learned how to watch the top earners, and do better. Look like them but not too closely! Walk like them but in sexier shoes. And so on!!!

    It gave me bitch status! I did not care for ONE dancer i ever worked with, i needed the money not the friends. This was work! I never had drama because i stayed away from crying dancers, and fighting dancers.

    Now if you performed hj's bj's etc. in the club you bet you're ass i told. I am not going down for some stupid bitch performing illegal acts in the club.

    SO watching this i learned how far to push myself and stay legal....Or so it seemed, as i never was busted.

    I lived off my regulars, and sure while i was on stage a dancer would give a ld, or talk with them, but when i came off stage, i would FIRST hunt out the best of my regulars!!!! And work my way down from there. I never cut out another dancer from spending time with a customer who would pay me for dances when he came in. BUT, i would send him hints if i was ready for him, or i was moving on to another. Then we would hook up later in the club.

    I guess i had respect for the other dancers, but not enough to share money with them, and that is what this job was about. Seemed the customer who just walked in the door was always a hot target...More money to blow from the start!!! And i made myself known quickly!!!

    Anyway, it's a game and a job!

    After dancing i am a friend to dancers. But if they danced in the club i did, i simply ignored them, that was all. Not so bad, as i never bullied..That is not in me. And i am not a fighter, so i had better ways of weeding out the weeklings.....Guess that does make me a bully. Or did. I just went about it without words. Not ONE dancer took the stage when i was on, asked me to get off, and gave me shit! Ever!

    I acted as though i could have owned the place myself. And it works.

    Spelling errors....i am sure.

    Pamela

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    The industry has changed. I saw much of what you described still in play in 1997, when I was just waitressing....

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I sometimes refer to the start of my strip club forays as just a few years ago, well into midlife, but it's not quite true.

    Once in the '70's, I got hauled along to a strip club with some guys as part of a bachelor party. I really didn't want to go. I knew the club was popular, the guys said it was a nasty club, and it was a long shot from the clubs I've gone to in the last few years.

    But here's the thing: It was stage only. No lap dances. Lap dances had not really been invented yet, as far as I know. And while, yeah, it had a degree of nastiness, no one was allowed to touch the dancers while they were doing their strip thing. Fast forward to Y2K when I had my strip club reintroduction. Wow lap dances.

    Here's my probably unpopular view. When it comes to being a lady, being haughty, being a princess, being stuck up, it lost ground, for better or worse, with contact dances. Once that threshold was crossed where contact was allowed, there was going to be a ratcheting up of how much contact was allowable. Before contact, no issue - there was simply no contact. Once you cross that line, the new boundaries become a lot more negotiable. And then establishing a line where one becomes a "whore" in the eyes of others becomes a lot more unclear.

    I'm not complaining and I'm not bemoaning. I've rather enjoyed going to strip clubs. But the reality is what it is.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I have been reading a lot of threads lately both here and on the blue side.I have been dancing for 11 years. I have to make this statement:
    I have not been dancing 11 years straight. But my first dancing job was similarly long ago. I have to say - my experience doesn't match yours.

    Because the line needs to be drawn between dancers and prostitutes.; and drawn clearly with a big black marker. There used to be a line. What happened to it?
    (Now, I really have nothing against prostitutes. Think it shoul be legal, really. But that is not what this business is about. Sure, there will always be girls who give it up on the side. As long as they keep it on the DL, who's to know?)
    Look - I would personally love it if nobody ever acted in a way that made me uncomfortable, and I can't say that it would thrill me to peek out of my dance cubical and see a blowjob. But ultimately it feels kind of cheap to say that people need to extend tolerance and respect to what WE feel comfortable with if we are not willing to do the same - especially now, that the air dance is pretty much extinct and we are ALL neogotiating SOME form of contact.

    My point is this : Act like a lady. ALL the time.
    The girls I started working with in 1994 were stuck-up bitches,but ladies.
    Oh fuck that. I didn't get into this to have to act like a demented poser.

    I was a day girl,and they were the queens of the night shift. Boy, did they look good. They carried themselves like they knew they were the best. And they backed it up with their dancing skill, their conversation, their apperance. They did not DARE walk in without a cute outfit on (just to walk in the door, mind you). The hair was always perfect; the manicure and pedicure done. The makeup was beautiful. The outfits were clean and classy, or cute-never trashy. Etc; etc.( AND THEY KNEW HOW TO MOVE!!)
    Again - fuck that. I will walk in without a cute outfit on. I will certainly not be told to dress up to step into the club. And it doesn't take skill to be a poseur. Just pretention.

    Most of all, they made you want to BE them. They made you want to walk like you owned the world. I learned not to be ashamed of what I did for a living, because I could tell that secretly all the men wanted to go out with them and all the women wanted to be them.
    Yeah, I think that might be just you. I have never wanted to "be" any other dancer, and the dancer's who I have admired and of whom I have been emulative did a hell of a lot more to earn that admiration that trot around thinking they were better than other people. And personally, in my own experience, I haven't noticed a lot of women who are dying to be dancers. Because, really, if they were, they probably would be.

    This is going to soud harsh; but it is true. Women who don't do this job are "civilians". That is not derogatory, just different.
    Well certainly we can label them as civilians in that they do not share a common experience with... well, those of us who share it. I don't know that they (or we) are markedly different in character because of it.

    The problem came when we tried to say that anyone can do this job. That is not true. To do this job well and enjoy it takes a certian kind of person. I could not be a nurse; I have compassion but cannot handle the realities of people hurt and dying on a 24 hour 7 day basis. I admire ppl that can. Do you see what I mean? You may think it is crazy to compare the two; I am just saying that it is possible that not every woman that walks through that door can do this. Those that cannot will never understand those of us that do. Therefore,they will never really know how to behave or present themselves appropriately in this world or ours.
    But that is demonstrably not true - I mean anyone CAN do this job. It has be shown time and again that you don't have to be that pretty, that smart or do extras. You can be one, or more, or none. Okay, not anyone - but it IS a very low skill job. You require no training and no special abilities.

    Used to be when a girl was hired she was paired with a more experienced dancer who taught here what the "rules" were, both spoken and unspoken. What happened to this? Well, one, managers stopped requiring this,and two; the new girls stopped listening.
    Again, this doesn't mesh my experience. The first bar I worked in for more than one night was filled - and I mean almost totally - with dancers between the ages of 18-20. I have always seen girls do it unofficially - tips in the dressing room, etc, but I have never seen a formal mentor system, and I don't think I would want it with the people to whom you are referring. I have a very particular way of acting - I frankly wouldn't have wanted someone telling me to put on mascara in order to walk into the change room or telling me how to act with customers - I mean we're not off an assembly line. Different things work for difference people.

    I think if some of us became "stuck-up dancers" again, maybe we could inspire some of these girls to want to better their performance and apperance.
    Maybe. But again, I think you are making big assumption about the business. I have said time and again that there were no "good old days" when men didn't want blowjobs. There were always seedy clubs, seedy customers and seedy girls.

    The girls in 1994 did not speak to me until I had earned their respect by proving that I was serious about what I was doing. That made me try all the harder.
    Yeah, see, that wouldn't have made me try harder or altered my behaviour except to make it impossible for me to ask for advice or help when I did need it.

    You can be a lady and make money. It is possible. You can be a lady and be gir-next-door friendly to your regulars. You can be a lady and do extras.I don't like it, but as I said before,if you keep it on the DL and don't be too posessive/interfere with my money, I really don't consider it my biz.(as long as you don't get me put in jail in a raid because of your shit!)
    Then what constitutes NOT being a lady? What behaviour are we villifying here?

    Again, the line. I am not a whore. That is simply not my job.
    Well, that depends on your definition of whore. If you walked around outside wearing your costume, you'd be arrested. If you behaved the way you did outside the club (taking money to provide a sexual service, even if it was simply taking off your clothes) you'd be arrested. What do you think you'd be arrested for? Hint - it's not jaywalking. I'm not accusing you of anything here - I'm just saying that this is why, to other people, it is perfectly obvious that you are, in fact, a whore (and I'm sure they wouldn't mean anything against it either).

    You are a beautiful, sexy, sensuous woman who can walk into any topless/nude bar in the world and get a job.
    Yeah, but those jobs are not hard to get (even if you think that is unfortunate).
    And do it well. You can run faster in 5 inch heels than most guys you know.That is something to be proud of.
    Yeah, see, again - I don't know where else I'm going to use this skill.

    Perhaps I have misunderstood a lot of your "lady" talk. To someone with my particular kind of background it sounds sort of trashy-sexist-elitist. If I have I would love for you to correct me. And I think that what you are talking about sounds really cute, in a way (you know, if we drop the trashy-sexist-elitist part). But it sounds similarly like a pipe dream or a movie about young Roxy who gets into the business and learns some ... things about herself, you know? I don't know how reflective of the business this ever really way. As for having pride in yourself - that is something that every woman should have, her occupation notwithstanding.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    xxxxx
    Last edited by Candice; 10-26-2008 at 09:37 AM.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    well i started before 94 and her expericance does mirror mine and i agree with her. i wish it would return to more "show business" then monkey business. in my one club it does to some degree............ ahh the good old days. anyway i am still much like she describes contact or not. always dressed up when i walk in. perfact hair makeup nails ect. i guess you would kinda call "me stuck up" as i too dont hang out with the newbies untill i see whats up. to give just one example. gotta run more later

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    When it comes to being a lady, being haughty, being a princess, being stuck up, it lost ground, for better or worse, with contact dances. Once that threshold was crossed where contact was allowed, there was going to be a ratcheting up of how much contact was allowable. Before contact, no issue - there was simply no contact. Once you cross that line, the new boundaries become a lot more negotiable. And then establishing a line where one becomes a "whore" in the eyes of others becomes a lot more unclear.
    I'd say that the point where the stripping business changed was even before the lap dance came along. Dancers made the transition from being showgirls to being glorified hostesses when they went from giving stage only interaction to giving one-on-one private dances. Lap dances, VIP rooms, and everything else that has followed, evolved (or depending on your viewpoint "devolved" from that).

    I think the suggestion of rasing standards for this industry is noble, but I think the genie is already out of the bottle, and even if you could put her back in, I doubt that most dancers would go along with it, particularly if doing so meant sacrificing money.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Thank you Lildreamer!

    I think that should be posted in every dressing room! There seems to be a rash of new girls that don't conduct themselves like ladies. My Mom always said, do whatever you want but always act like a lady.

    Susan
    A fellow stuck up dancer.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    I
    Here's my probably unpopular view. When it comes to being a lady, being haughty, being a princess, being stuck up, it lost ground, for better or worse, with contact dances.
    Jay; I agree with you; read my post where I make a statement to the guys. if you came to my club you would never find me stuck up; I am always friendly to a customer. I am speaking about garnering respect from other girls. This seems to be the only way it works in my area at least. As I said, I am never intenitonally mean to other girls either, I just don't go out of my way for them until I can tell they are really trying. I love men; I love my job. I try to carry myself /behave as if I have respect for myself and you as a customer. That's all. I hate the girls that act like a customer is too good for them. Customer service is first-always.
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
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  15. #15
    Pamela
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    One thing that is so important to all of us dancers is, we all have different experiences!!!!

    Jenny i read what you write, but the part about a whore....Well don't get off track, she is simply talking about working the clubs, not out of the doors.

    People can take what was said by the original poster and twist it to suit her needs, but this is all very true. For one WEEK in a new club try being sorta the stuck up, knows what she wants, why she is here, leave me alone kinda dancer.....It works!

    Pamela

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    [Jenny]I have not been dancing 11 years straight. But my first dancing job was similarly long ago. I have to say - my experience doesn't match yours.

    I did say that my experience wasn't everyone's. Point taken.

    [Jenny]Look - I would personally love it if nobody ever acted in a way that made me uncomfortable, and I can't say that it would thrill me to peek out of my dance cubical and see a blowjob. But ultimately it feels kind of cheap to say that people need to extend tolerance and respect to what WE feel comfortable with if we are not willing to do the same - especially now, that the air dance is pretty much extinct and we are ALL neogotiating SOME form of contact.

    Well, I'm trying to face reality in that I know I can't stop that behavior from happening, so the best I can do if I want to do my job (here anyway) is try to act ladylike about it and hope she will do the same. Again, I have no problem with prostitution as long as you don't make it my biz/give me a problem. If I demand respect for my profession she has a right to demand respect for hers., whether I agree with it or not. Consensual crimes and all.

    [Jenny]Oh fuck that. I didn't get into this to have to act like a demented poser.

    Nobody said you had to act like that, and I'm sorry that your interpretation of acting ladylike is that it is demented poserisim. To me acting like a lady means you carry yourself like you have respect for yourself and others, and enough respect not to put up with any bullshit. You can be a lady and be fun and casual and even drunk-but you still have control over what is happening and what you do. I don't know if I am going to be able to expain what I mean here; the right words aren't coming; sorry.

    [Jenny]Again - fuck that. I will walk in without a cute outfit on. I will certainly not be told to dress up to step into the club. And it doesn't take skill to be a poseur. Just pretention.

    Well, that's been the rule in most of the clubs I've worked in,and in my meeting we just had Sunday it was reiterated again. Different clubs, different rules. Again, I did state that my experience was not universal. I mean don't walk in with 15 curlers in your hair and ratty sweats (because most clubs I've worked in you had to walk through SOME part of the public area to get to the dressing room--hence the rule)

    [Jenny]Yeah, I think that might be just you. I have never wanted to "be" any other dancer, and the dancer's who I have admired and of whom I have been emulative did a hell of a lot more to earn that admiration that trot around thinking they were better than other people. And personally, in my own experience, I haven't noticed a lot of women who are dying to be dancers. Because, really, if they were, they probably would be.

    Well, again, maybe that's a product of the time you started dancing in vs. me. Those girls don't exist much anymore. Yes, the ones I was talking about DID act like they thought they were better than anyone.I don't. I don't act like I think I'm better; just that I have respect for myself, the job, and the ppl that help me do my job (DJ, managers,bouncers, waitstaff, etc.)I just will not show you my "friendly" side until I know you are serious. It seems as if your defintion of ladylike is a little skewed. Let me also clear something up. By using the words "stuck-up" I was trying to get a point across. To me, someone who is stuck up is someone who is not overly friendly when I am trying to be. Many times that just means they are 1)shy 2)occupied with other things or 3)don't want to get involved with co-workers. Unfortunately , "stuck-up" is the only language many of these inexperienced girls understand.Go fig.

    [Jenny]Well certainly we can label them as civilians in that they do not share a common experience with... well, those of us who share it. I don't know that they (or we) are markedly different in character because of it.

    I am certainly different in character than (using my example) someone in the medical field. I have utmost admiraton for them, but if I were to try to do their job I would probably go crazy within a few months if not sooner. Definately couldn't be a coroner, etc. Can ya tell I've got a problem with blood? Anyway...

    [Jenny]But that is demonstrably not true - I mean anyone CAN do this job. It has be shown time and again that you don't have to be that pretty, that smart or do extras. You can be one, or more, or none. Okay, not anyone - but it IS a very low skill job. You require no training and no special abilities.

    Ok; let's look at this: sure, they are "dancing" and making money.But if you think that is all this job is about, you are not seeing the next layer.
    Here is part of a post I put on a non-stripper board about stripping; and it explains most of what I mean:
    ***THE ULTIMATE GOAL WAS TO SEE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU COULD GET WITHOUT TOUCHING THE PERSON OR TAKING YOUR CLOTHES OFF**
    In other words, its a mind-fuck, masquerading as a physical one. The REAL pros can get a month's salary just talking to the right gentleman. Many do have to dance, but not grind. <snip> Right now it is all about the lowest common denominator.But, that is a whole other discussion. What I am saying is, many of you don't understand how intricate this industry really is,and how it really works. The women many of you are describing have used the industry for what they needed and moved on. There's another layer, filled with people as complex diverse,and INTELLIGENT as this DU board. The customers are the same.
    IMPORTANT: IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE T&A. REALLY.
    Many a customer I have had remains my friend to this day precisely because I refused to give them everything, or even more than one thing (a dance). They like a woman who won't give in to them because they are powerful and have money. They like a woman who will call them out. They like a woman who they can verbally "spar" with,and who will then have a drink with them and give them 2.3 min. of seduction close enough to smell but not to touch (not meaning THAT; scent of a woman type thing).These men like the game-then they leave and don't have to worry about calling me or whether or not I'm gonna be pissed because they forgot the milk. They want a girl who will party with them and give them a little bit of eye candy; fantasize that maybe they have a chance,and then GO HOME TO THEIR WIVES.
    As to the club : Running a strip club is an art unto itself. There is so much to know and to do it is mind-boggling. My husband has been a strip club DJ for 16 years, 6 in Vegas, 3 in Dallas, also west coast and now east coast. To have the perfect party atmosphere where everyone is making money and having a good time takes the whole club working together. You need DJ's that can read the crowd perfectly; when the crowd is following the dj's lead, then the dancers are having fun and they fall right in line. If they dancers are bouncing around having a good time feeding off the energy of the crowd, it just cycles back in ad we're off on one hell of a party . I know that sounds corny but I have seen it happen. You don't need drugs. You don't even need to get drunk,really. It's a great feeling, and I've seen it.
    I don't mean to sound condescending, but you have no idea what it is like. There are those of us who visit the industry and leave. Then there are those of us for whom it is in our blood forever. Yes, I am a Leo,and I freely admit I love the attention.This may be a psychological "problem", but instead of going to therapy, I found this creative outlet to deal with my problem. Before I started dancing, I was trying to find this validation in all the wrong ways,and that got me into trouble several times. Now, I couldn't be happier with my emotional state, and my relationship thrives. When my fiance of 8 years died in a motorcycle crash, guess who was there for me the most? My "stripper" family and my club. They supported me and protected me at a very hard and vulnerable time in my life. Just like here, we are all one big very dysfunctional family.

    [Jenny] Again, this doesn't mesh my experience. The first bar I worked in for more than one night was filled - and I mean almost totally - with dancers between the ages of 18-20. I have always seen girls do it unofficially - tips in the dressing room, etc, but I have never seen a formal mentor system, and I don't think I would want it with the people to whom you are referring. I have a very particular way of acting - I frankly wouldn't have wanted someone telling me to put on mascara in order to walk into the change room or telling me how to act with customers - I mean we're not off an assembly line. Different things work for difference people.

    Well of course they do. The girl who was "training" you told you the basics and if you wanted more specific info you asked her,but would not impose her own style on you unless you asked for it. She didn't want someone copying her to steal her customers, you know?. I started out copying other ppls things and created my own look in time. I had 2 women "mentor" me and learned some invaluable things from them, not the least of which was that I can dance on a stage (not including polework) like noone's bizness. Sure, some of it looked like other girl's work at first, but I quickly came into my own (being a very independent person) and created my own style.

    [Jenny]Maybe. But again, I think you are making big assumption about the business. I have said time and again that there were no "good old days" when men didn't want blowjobs. There were always seedy clubs, seedy customers and seedy girls.

    Again, I said my experience didn't cover everyone. I am mostly talking about the "Dollhouse"era and the big chain clubs it spawned, which seems to have created the mid-90's boom that most of us here were "born"of,if you will.
    Of course there have always been seedy clubs & customers. They have their clubs for the most part,and we have ours. See above comments about not being able to stop the BJ's...

    [Jenny]Yeah, see, that wouldn't have made me try harder or altered my behaviour except to make it impossible for me to ask for advice or help when I did need it.

    Again, I went to the girl who had been "assigned" to me, or one of the newer girls who were not so unapprochable, or to the housemom. I realize this may not always be possible, though, so point taken; I guess I had it good.

    (continued on next post)
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
    "I want to entertain people who wish to be entertained, not be an expensive but poor substitute for someone who can't find themselves a prostitute."-Asurfel
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    “Belgian Trappist Organically Farmed Multiple Orgasm Inducing. Bed Shaking, Neighbors Complaining, Heirloom Radishes”

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    [Jenny]Then what constitutes NOT being a lady? What behaviour are we villifying here?

    Acting like a college drunk co-ed climbing all over the guys and/or being so drugged out you can't tell the difference betweeen a customer and your man;
    acting like you just walked off COPS into the club; walking around with a cig hanging out of your mouth, loudly popping gum with your mouth open. Slouching all the way down in your chair with your legs a mile apart (not in the cute flirty way). Being rude to customers and talking too loud while saying "that mutherfucking bitch". Telling your customer all about your boyfriend beating the shit out of you and how you can't put clothes on your kids.Asking him in the first 20 min. if he will pay you to meet OTC. Etc. Etc.
    The extras girls I am referring to act like ladies in the outside area and then if they do a little more in the back it is well disguised so that no one notices. Again, I don't like it but after 11 years I know I can't stop it. Some girls I've known for years have been giving extras and I had no idea.That's how discreet they were. As long as you don't land me in jail or steal my money, whatever.Live/let live.

    [Jenny]Well, that depends on your definition of whore. If you walked around outside wearing your costume, you'd be arrested. If you behaved the way you did outside the club (taking money to provide a sexual service, even if it was simply taking off your clothes) you'd be arrested. What do you think you'd be arrested for? Hint - it's not jaywalking. I'm not accusing you of anything here - I'm just saying that this is why, to other people, it is perfectly obvious that you are, in fact, a whore (and I'm sure they wouldn't mean anything against it either).

    Welll of course to some people I'm a whore. So is the secretary that sleeps with her boss to get a raise, or the woman who marries for money; to me anyway-that's MY def. of whore.I accepted that risk of the label when I took this job. That isn't the point. The "whores" and prostitutes have their job, this one is mine. I'm talking inside the club, not outside, anyway.

    [Jenny]Yeah, but those jobs are not hard to get (even if you think that is unfortunate).

    Ok; but still to get a job and do it well are two different things. I just don't think you've seen the whole picture I'm talking about yet, and it really is a long discussion. I still say that out of 10 women at random, only 3/4 MAYBE could get in said club and make money tonight, and tomorrow, and the next day.Of course I could be wrong.

    [Jenny]Yeah, see, again - I don't know where else I'm going to use this skill.

    Just a funny point to lighten the mood. The Psychological skills I have learned in this job, and the things I have learned about human nature and even sales are far more valuable. That's also part of my growing-up too.

    [Jenny]Perhaps I have misunderstood a lot of your "lady" talk. To someone with my particular kind of background it sounds sort of trashy-sexist-elitist. If I have I would love for you to correct me. And I think that what you are talking about sounds really cute, in a way (you know, if we drop the trashy-sexist-elitist part). But it sounds similarly like a pipe dream or a movie about young Roxy who gets into the business and learns some ... things about herself, you know? I don't know how reflective of the business this ever really way. As for having pride in yourself - that is something that every woman should have, her occupation notwithstanding.[/QUOTE]

    Sure; we would hope every woman has pride in herself, but let's be realistic. Just look around at this site. Need I say more? Many women, dancers or no, have self-esteem problems brought on by many factors in the world which are too many to list right now; I know you know what I mean. Those of us who choose to expose ourselves in this way are doubling up on our chances to feel shitty about ourselves. Its a big challenge we in this industry set ourselves:if we can do this job and come home still feeling that we are attractive and good we are stronger for the experience.
    I certainly am not trying to come off as elitist. (I write this way, BTW, because my mother was an english professor, can't help it). I was raised to believe everyone is equal, no matter what upbringing/background. But I also strive to better myself and put myself in situations were I am progressing instead of regressing. Not all clubs can be like the one I started in; classy but comfortable. I have been in bigger ones and small neighborhood bars, big city clubs and small beach town crappy nasty ones.(and Memphis---AAAUGH!!)I survived in all of them. I may not have made tons of money in the nastier clubs, but I made enought to do what I needed. I don't look down on anyone who has to work where they do for what they need. I would think, however,that a girl would want to try a classier club just to see if she could do it. Again, the challenge. But,that's just me. Be where you are comfortable and make money; it's your life. But there is a certain kind of standard out there that I believe most of us "grew up" (club-wise) on, and this whole post is just a gentle reminder that to err on the side of ladylike usually works better than not.BTW, lady-like also assumes that customer service is top priority. Always. (unless he's a COMPLETE dick)!
    I hope I cleared up any confusion you may have about my POV. I'm sure we will agree to disagree on some things; and that's why I love this board. It sure would be boring if I couldn't hear someone else's opinions. Best of luck to you!
    Last edited by lildreamer316; 07-12-2005 at 02:33 PM.
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
    "I want to entertain people who wish to be entertained, not be an expensive but poor substitute for someone who can't find themselves a prostitute."-Asurfel
    Those Who Hear Not The Music Think The Dancers Mad.
    “Belgian Trappist Organically Farmed Multiple Orgasm Inducing. Bed Shaking, Neighbors Complaining, Heirloom Radishes”

  18. #18
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I think folks here are coming to different connotations of what Lil means by "stuck up", but just to quote this part.

    Quote Originally Posted by lildreamer316
    They carried themselves like they knew they were the best. And they backed it up with their dancing skill, their conversation, their apperance. They did not DARE walk in without a cute outfit on (just to walk in the door, mind you). The hair was always perfect; the manicure and pedicure done. The makeup was beautiful. The outfits were clean and classy, or cute-never trashy. Etc; etc.( AND THEY KNEW HOW TO MOVE!!)
    Most of all, they made you want to BE them. They made you want to walk like you owned the world. I learned not to be ashamed of what I did for a living, because I could tell that secretly all the men wanted to go out with them and all the women wanted to be them.
    Hmm, so a dancer should...

    - exude confidence
    - put some pizazz into her stage show
    - wear classy, yet attention getting attire and makeup
    - take care of her body
    - be completely unashamed of what she does
    - set limits on what she will/will not do, and adhere to them religioiusly
    - not get caught uo in workplace drama
    - treat custys the way she would like to treated
    - not take rejection personally
    - don't let the pitfalls of dancing go to her head
    - treat her job with the same dicipline that she would a civilian job.
    - find a civilian job if she cannot/no longer accept the tenets of being a dancer.

    I don't really see where "stuck up" applies here. I think the optimal word here would be "professional". Whatever she meant, dancers in general doing more of the above would certainly improve the atmosphere of this business.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    I
    I don't really see where "stuck up" applies here. I think the optimal word here would be "professional". Whatever she meant, dancers in general doing more of the above would certainly improve the atmosphere of this business.
    Yeah, doc, I probably could have picked a better descriptive word, but I wanted to get my thoughts down before I lost them (ADD and all, you know) Thanks for seeing clearly through to what I was really saying
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela
    People can take what was said by the original poster and twist it to suit her needs, but this is all very true. For one WEEK in a new club try being sorta the stuck up, knows what she wants, why she is here, leave me alone kinda dancer.....It works!
    Thanks Pamela--good to know I'm not completly outta my gourd....
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Okay, first, disagreeing with someone doesn't mean I'm twisting. Giving someone else's post a close reading also isn't twisting - it's attentive.

    Quote Originally Posted by lildreamer316
    Acting like a college drunk co-ed climbing all over the guys and/or being so drugged out you can't tell the difference betweeen a customer and your man;
    acting like you just walked off COPS into the club; walking around with a cig hanging out of your mouth, loudly popping gum with your mouth open. Slouching all the way down in your chair with your legs a mile apart (not in the cute flirty way). Being rude to customers and talking too loud while saying "that mutherfucking bitch". Telling your customer all about your boyfriend beating the shit out of you and how you can't put clothes on your kids.Asking him in the first 20 min. if he will pay you to meet OTC. Etc. Etc.
    Well, I could have just not bothered with the rest of my post. Eew. Well, yeah. That's all obviously kind of gross, and I have no contention with it. Rock on with your lady like behaviour.

    I certainly am not trying to come off as elitist. (I write this way, BTW, because my mother was an english professor, can't help it). I was raised to believe everyone is equal, no matter what upbringing/background.
    I think what sort of started it was the idea that walking into a club feeling better than everyone else because you are a successful stripper wearing mascara was a good thing. You know? Because, honestly, I am not slagging stripping, truly and really, but even at the pinnacle it was never rocket science. I am (incidentally) one of the girls who will dance in mascara and lip gloss and nothing else - and I got my nose pierced instead of my navel or tongue (I know - I'm a wild one). I was an English Major by the way - and you know how it is with us liberal arts educated feminist women under or about 30 - the word ""ladylike" has a particular connotation, and it isn't really good. I wasn't faulting your writing style (or I would have corrected your spelling )
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    With the spelling, yeah, tell me about it--I get in such a rush that I miss half of my stuff. Gotta love that ADD.
    Grinding is for coffee and meat.
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    Those Who Hear Not The Music Think The Dancers Mad.
    “Belgian Trappist Organically Farmed Multiple Orgasm Inducing. Bed Shaking, Neighbors Complaining, Heirloom Radishes”

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    I really enjoyed this post. With reading on the blue side and the pink side lately, this post really hit home as to what I was thinking. When I was dancing, I always held my self in a "professional" way. I always walked in looking cute because I would come in right when day shift was ending, and in my club, the guys were happy to see me. In my own opinion, I never liked girls who did the "extras", not that it made it hard for me to make money 'cause I could hold my own without that extra work. In my opinion it made the club look trashy and I didn't want to have to worry about the cops coming in a busting 'cause some other girls "extra credit". Also, I always tried to put pizazz in my stage time. I would always try to keep it upbeat and fun, lots of eye contact and smiling. Sure, I didn't start eleven years ago, but it was 6 years ago and the money was a lot better then.

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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    the entire premise of this post is wonderful advice if your customer base consists entirely of highly imaginative men with tons of disposable income.

    as for the 90 percent of other men that go to strip clubs, they are fundamentally unimaginative. but then, 90 percent of the world is, when it comes to that. and it's disingenuous to act as if the majority of dancers can hope to make money behaving this way because IT TAKES THE VERY IMAGINATION 90% of people don't have.

    to most dancers, the game-playing aspect isn't fun or interesting or challenging, it is dull and stupid and threatening. we live in a world that punishes the imaginative, and stripping is no different. anyone who wants the majority of dancers to have the chance to work in an imagination-supporting environment should probably be out there reconfiguring society to appreciate thinking and flights of fancy among the majority.

    but anyway i am digressing somewhat. i just wanted to offer the major reason i feel that it's so difficult to sell fantasy. people are trained to seek out cheap and bleary reality instead, so it shouldn't suprise that the 'sophisticated lady' thing doesn't get good play or income in most clubs.

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    Senior Member Fahren's Avatar
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    Default Re: On being a stuck-up dancer.

    Lil Dreamer, WOW!!!
    Thank you for posting this, its really inspiring!

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