View Poll Results: What would you like to see happen in the clubs?

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  • Go back to the Old School where extra's were not so readilly available.

    25 64.10%
  • Love things just the way they are.

    7 17.95%
  • Let's have the club's more open than they already are.

    7 17.95%
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Thread: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

  1. #1
    Member TxShooter's Avatar
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    Sad Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    I have been visiting strip clubs in the Houston Area for over 15 years now and have really noticed signifigant changes from the "Old School" way of doing things in all aspects of the business.

    The first club I ever went to was called "Cutter Bill's" it was located on Westheimer where Treasures is currently in business. I remember that the girls were extremely attractive and dressed in elegant manner (well as elegant as you can get in a strip club.) I soon branched out and would go to the Men's Club, Rick's (Galleria), St, James, The Trophy Club, and Heartbreakers in Dickinson to name a few. It seemed that gowns were pretty much the norm back then and the quality of the women appeared to be much higher than it is today. The gowns left much more to the imagination and to see the entire package you had to either get a dance or wait for the dancer to go on stage. Some dancers did wear short dresses, but this was the exception and not the norm.

    I was a little more naive about the business back then, but it seems that even though you knew extra's occured in the clubs, it appeared to be on rare occasions and only with certain dancers. The ones that did play seemed to take it outside of the club vs. the onsite activities that occur in the open today. Management seemed to keep a much closer eye on the activities in the club and I even saw them talk to the girls about doing things like a but grind, which really seems lame in comparison to what occurs in the club today. The dancer's even seemed to police each other in an effort to keep things semi-clean.

    In the late 90's in a effort to "clean up" the strip clubs the City Council adopted a new SOB Ordinance that changed the way Houston Strip Club's would operate.Link to Houston Laws

    One of the key provisions was that dancers were not allowed to come in contact with a customer and were supposed to remain at least 3 feet away at all times. Thus the creation of the infamous "Air Dance."

    A second key provision was the licensing of manager's and dancer's. This was done through HPD Vice and becomes a permanant public record. Additionaly, due to provisions in the new law, many dancers and managers with prior criminal convictions were unable to be licensed and effectively at the time were unable to be employed at a SOB in the City limits.

    A combination of of the dancer's not wanting a permanant public record of being a dancer (Think about background checks for future employer's), the 3 foot rule, and criminal backgrounds combined with huge media coverage of the new law caused many dancer's to go to club's in unincorporated areas of the county that did not have strict ordinances and to club's in other areas. I remember Heartbreaker's in Dickinson having well over 300 dancer's at one time. For the size of the club at the time this was simply a huge number of entertainer's.

    Where the dancer's go, the customers will follow. The business in the club's outside of the city limit's exploded and club's in the city were slow at best. It is my opinion that the girl's that stayed at the club's in the city began to allow many more extracuricular activities in order to keep the remaining customer's in the club's. The limited enforcement of the club's by Vice and the legal battle with the club owners and the city over the new law's allowed the Extra's mentality to become ingrained in the Houston club's. As things began to calm down and dancer's began to return to the club's in the city limit's there was a realization that they had to compete with the girls doing extra's. Many of the customers when faced with spending a hundred dollars and getting 5 reasonably clean lap dances or getting a blow job in the club chose the latter option. Many of these girls quickly became extra's girls in a effort to compete and keep the income level they had become used to or almost addicted to. As the older dancer's began to retire and a new crop of girl's began working in the club's, the extra's mentality gained a stronger foothold. The newer dancer's had seen no other way of doing business.

    The law's have appeared to have a totally opposite effect than what was intended and again, in my opinion, appear to be the root cause of what the Houston Club's are today. It is a buyer's market out there and everything is on the menu. Good, bad, or ugly, this is what we have today. I even saw a dancer the other night having sex on the main floor of the club in the open. All created by a government attempting to legislate morality.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, scotch in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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  2. #2
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Wow, TxShooter. A perfectly stated and nonjudgemental against dancers explanation of the situation. I started waitressing at the Colorado in 97, the final year of Houston SC in its old glory. The girls made amazing money and I never saw extras.

    Hell yes, I want things to go back, but I don't know exactly how to do that now aside from the clubs firing 75% of their dancers. But what do the clubs care, as long as they are getting their housefees and tipouts, let as many girls work as they can fit. After all, someone is buying those girls drinks too! Often, on a bad night, its the girls themselves.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Hmm, i wonder if Derek's voted in this poll?

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Dam
    well said.
    Fuckin A,this post is awsome.

    So whats the cure to what ails Houston????
    (and many major markets)

    Its just my opinion,but I think if they close down the fringe clubs and focus on inforcing the rules in the major clubs,the very stigma of "extras"in a club would be gone soon.

    The only people that would disagree is the custies wanting a blowjob along with thier lapdance.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Wow, TxShooter. A perfectly stated and nonjudgemental against dancers explanation of the situation. I started waitressing at the Colorado in 97, the final year of Houston SC in its old glory. The girls made amazing money and I never saw extras.

    Hell yes, I want things to go back, but I don't know exactly how to do that now aside from the clubs firing 75% of their dancers. But what do the clubs care, as long as they are getting their housefees and tipouts, let as many girls work as they can fit. After all, someone is buying those girls drinks too! Often, on a bad night, its the girls themselves.
    I agree with your post as well!
    TX, your post nailed the situation in Houston perfectly. I was dancing in '97 and everyday we were fear full of losing our jobs every single day. One day we were told to wear latex and full backs, the next day we were told we could go back to g-strings. Nothing was consistant at all. Many of us did retire or flee to studios. I stayed and rode it out. I can't tell you how much I donated to funds set a side to pay for lawyers fees in hopes of keeping the clubs open.

    I think what happened is many of the clubs got desperate for dancers and began to hire girls that would normally be turned away at a heart beat. Managers would ask us to bring friends in and would go as far as to offer free
    tipouts to those of us who did. Sometimes up to a week of paying no fees. All in hopes of keeping our customers.
    Most of these new dancers had no skills and no grace what so ever. Be a good dancer is so much more than taking off your clothes ! It became easier for them to began providing extras..During this time I still wore my gowns and I would be lucky enough to get those big spenders who came in looking for class. But I still remember the 2 times I almost lost my apartment and everything. Many of my friends lost everything and turned to drugs to help deal with their depressions.
    I really don't know what to do about the current situation in Houston. As sad as it may seem I got used to seeing all the extras and have kinda blocked it all out. I know that if 75% of the dancers were fired that many of them would lose everything. I think the managers and club owners need to stop pretending like the problem doesn't exist. Its so simple to call mandatory club meetings and let it be known extras will no longer be the norm. If any girl gets caught doing them they will get fired or be warned and then fired if it happens again. Many of the clubs I worked at ( I 've worked at a lot ) had no problem keeping the girls in line. They just began to care more about profits !
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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I fuckin Love you Farrah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    How can we clean up the industry across the board with places like houston breaking all the rules and continuing the stereotypes.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    BigGreen, obviously local laws don't do anything to stop the activities or run the fringe clubs out of town. If politicians REALLY gave a rat's ass about anything but where their next vote or campaign contribution will come from, they'd set up laws such that the CLUBOWNERS are held responsible for what goes on in their establishments and enforce them, not set ridiculously strict dance laws and use them to harrass dancers for cheap headlines. The way the world operates, there is no way to get rid of the "fringe" clubs and dirty dancers while leaving the rest. Furthermore, as we've said here so many times, now that pandora's box has been opened it'll be practically impossible to get customers to pay for just a sampler when they've been used to full meal deals for so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Unfortunately, Houston will never be the same. On a positive note, maybe other major cities can learn from Houston's mistakes.

    Another item not mentioned in my earlier post was the huge number of Spa's (Jack Shack's) that were also created following the ordinance. Many of the girls who could not be licensed as a topless entertainer were almost forced into this fringe business and prostitution simply for survival.

    The most important thing for the new girls to remember is that in the club you are supposed to be selling a fantasy, not giving the customer reality. I will be the first to admit to participating in extra's inside the club, but the new girls don't seem to understand that while providing these extra's will give them some quick easy cash, over the long haul the customer will keep coming back and end up spending more money on the dancer trying to obtain what he can't have. Once he has had the "Holy Grail" there is less incintive to continue coming back in and spending money on that infividual. While the quick cash of a few hundred dollars may seem attrative at the time, in the long term the same dancer could have made thousands on the same customer by not providing the extra's and continuing the fantasy!

    This is probably not a real popular opinion among many of the males on this board, but is a honest and candid opinion based on many years in and around this business.

    Best advice to a person just entering the business, get rid of the idea that this is about sex or sexual relations. The business is all about the money!

    Good luck ladies and happy dancing!
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, scotch in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by TxShooter

    This is probably not a real popular opinion among many of the males on this board, but is a honest and candid opinion based on many years in and around this business.

    Best advice to a person just entering the business, get rid of the idea that this is about sex or sexual relations. The business is all about the money!

    Good luck ladies and happy dancing!
    I swear i have not fornicated with this sw member.

    But I agree with everything in this post.

    Its saying some of the thigs im trying to point out.
    Last edited by BigGreenMnM; 07-31-2005 at 07:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    TX, I don't think other cities have learned any lessons from Houston's example. From what I've seen and heard over the years, they're all doing the same crap, just to different degrees. And the same thing happens. New stricter laws go into affect, strip clubs get dirtier.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Do you think this may have something to do with the average age of the girls who now work?

    When strip clubs first opened here in Melbourne the average age of the girls was mid twenties to early thirties. They had worked in a number of other industries and probably earned the $15 per hour to $40 per hour and paid tax on it for a long time.

    The goals of a 18 - 20 year old may not be as long term as a 28 year old who may be thinking of investments, saving money and settling down.

    In Melbourne we have all three types of clubs. The air dance clubs, the high contact clubs and brothels. To the best of my knowledge the most popular, well frequented and financially successful clubs are the air dance clubs.

    When the clubs started here circa 1994, the focus was on value for money entertainment. Today there seems to be a change in the balance and perhaps a lot of the fantasy aspect has been traded for reality.. ie mileage... so there is a very different value for money expectation and this appeals to a different beast.

    The air dance clubs still have some appeal to the corporates but this is dying a well.
    Whilst there has always been some stigma attached with SCs, the moment the perception is that there is more than just nudity going on, it makes it even less desirable to be seen walking out of one. I think this has hurt the business as it has caused a lot of corporates to think twice about entertaining business clients at a strip club.

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    Temporarily Banned Derek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Hmm, i wonder if Derek's voted in this poll?
    Yes I have - I would like to c the clubs have special private room with say sexy leather divan and real door that shuts for anything goes - let the girls do their thing. That way the club could be a one way stop.....

    I like the full 2 way contact we have here in Houston - certainly would be against atmosphere becoming more conservative. I woul not pay 50 c for an air dance.

    The cops need to be chasing terrorists not harrassing strippers or their customers.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    There is a reason I don't work in Houston anymore and Derek there is one of the many reasons. It use to be an art form, almost a religious experience where only the elite could go.

    Now it seems like every Joe bob with his cover charge and rented sport jacket can go in and get his rocks off cheaply. My hat is off to the chicks that work in Houston now and do so without going Derek's route.

    Miss R.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by TxShooter
    The most important thing for the new girls to remember is that in the club you are supposed to be selling a fantasy, not giving the customer reality. I will be the first to admit to participating in extra's inside the club, but the new girls don't seem to understand that while providing these extra's will give them some quick easy cash, over the long haul the customer will keep coming back and end up spending more money on the dancer trying to obtain what he can't have. Once he has had the "Holy Grail" there is less incintive to continue coming back in and spending money on that infividual. While the quick cash of a few hundred dollars may seem attrative at the time, in the long term the same dancer could have made thousands on the same customer by not providing the extra's and continuing the fantasy!
    Wow! Actually, is more like... WOW! Read this and just couldn't pass up opportunity to first, try to "highlight" and/or call attention to in the hope that those who may not have otherwise taken the time to read and seriously consider now will... and second, give credit where credit is due: TxShooter, have to hand iit to you, man - not sure why so many don't get this, maybe it's somewhat "counterintuitive" or something along those lines, maybe it seems like it's just too damned much work when you first start trying to do this way... I really just don't know.

    But, that said: Ladies, just my .02 but, IMHO, this is an incredibly astute and insightful analysis of the underlying dynamics of the "business relaionship" that you're trying to create and then exploit to the maximum extent possible... as well as a very succinct "narrative outline" of sorts of the basic "business plan" you need to try to follow to not only increase your earnings but, of near, if not equal import, to also markedly improve the consistency of those increased earnings over the long haul.

    Point for you, TxShooter.
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    I think the quality of dancer has gone down in Houston in recent years. There are a lot more girls that are just hardened prostitutes and don't really dance, they just go around the club and give quickie, mechanical blow jobs all day long. I don't think the morale level in the clubs here is as high as I remember. I used to be a frequent sc visitor but rarely go to clubs anymore. I've lost interest.
    A fat chick is like a big, warm, comfortable pillow that you can also have sex with....

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by merely_lurking
    I think the quality of dancer has gone down in Houston in recent years. There are a lot more girls that are just hardened prostitutes and don't really dance, they just go around the club and give quickie, mechanical blow jobs all day long. I don't think the morale level in the clubs here is as high as I remember. I used to be a frequent sc visitor but rarely go to clubs anymore. I've lost interest.
    Isn't it funny how, as sleaze in clubs increases astronomically, dancer quality and morale decreases astronomically?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by merely_lurking
    There are a lot more girls that are just hardened prostitutes and don't really dance, they just go around the club and give quickie, mechanical blow jobs all day long. .... I used to be a frequent sc visitor but rarely go to clubs anymore. I've lost interest.
    And that's exactly the goal of the moron... er "moral" majority. It just donned on me the other day that the MM doesn't care if the laws they support make the SC sleazier. As a matter of fact, they WANT SCs to become sleazier. As has been observed, it makes great headlines for the politicians. But there's another element to it that's even more important in their fight against what they see as evil.

    You see, my theory is that the puritannical jihadist's goal is not, as we've often speculated, to clean up what goes on inside the club; their goal is to make the club so sleazy that no respectable citizen would want to be seen going into or leaving it. It's okay for the end result to be a situation in which a few criminal and scumbum types work for or patronize what's becoming tantamount to a badly operated brothel. In the minds of the morality police, those folks are lost souls who will burn in hell anyway because they're beyond saving. No, what the moral majority is worried about is that the SC will become a respectable form of entertainment where average citizens can go without damaging their reputations. They fear any end result that would clean up the SC. That would be horrifying because the people who make up the very fabric of the moral majority would be tempted themselves. No, it's better in their minds to have the club be turned into a cesspool where their own members would fear to tread. Thus, their support exists for, not only these heavy-handed restrictions, but also the END RESULT of the restrictions.

    -Ev

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Or you just have desperate losers meeting up with desperate losers.

    Its true that after Enron went down alot of money went away from clubs. Supposedly I heard that the guys at enron blew millions in the clubs there and in fact Lou Pai their CEO before Skilling used to sometimes spend 10-20k a night there.

    Now instead of execs they have the dereks of the world who can get it for 100 bucks because some 5-6 quality girl gets paid more in an hour than she would at Dennys in a week.
    AmyLynne

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by amylynnej
    Or you just have desperate losers meeting up with desperate losers.

    Its true that after Enron went down alot of money went away from clubs. Supposedly I heard that the guys at enron blew millions in the clubs there and in fact Lou Pai their CEO before Skilling used to sometimes spend 10-20k a night there.

    Now instead of execs they have the dereks of the world who can get it for 100 bucks because some 5-6 quality girl gets paid more in an hour than she would at Dennys in a week.
    I strongly disagree with any correlation of the fall of Enron to the changes in the SC business in Houston. Remember that the real changes in the business came well before the fall of Enron. Some have said that 9/11 had a severe effect. I do see some effect that both of these events had in the overall money making potential for dancers, but not to the avalibility of extra's and the changed menatality inside the clubs in Houston. 9/11 may have been a siginifigant factor in many other cities, but Houston had already had it's hard moments with the new laws and the changing/declining oil business pre-Enron's Fall. I think my original post explained best what has occured.

    Comments from dancers that were in the Houston area during these time periods?
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    The crackdowns came in Houston in 1998. I worked there for a bit maybe 5 years or so before then and the clubs were much more picky about hiring. Ethnic girls weren't seen much in better clubs. The extras that went on then were hand jobs by a select group of girls under the table since the clubs had white tablecloths.

    I was in Houston working at The Ritz on 9/11, and shortly afterwards moved to St. James. Extras were alive and well before 9/11. According to girls that were there a few years prior, money started drying up around late 99, early 2000. The expense account splurger had been phased out.

    Houston clubs as everyone knows are much more upscale and plush than clubs in virtually every city. With 12 waitresses or so on the floor, valet parking, shoe shine men, a bathroom attendant, VIP memberships, full course buffets, free happy hour buffets, a costume boutique, limousine, car washing detail, Champagne rooms, and VIP rooms, and even a swimming pool at St. James, these clubs were not created with the ordinary smoe in mind. They were designed to accomodate discerning men who could and would spend large amounts of money for the ambiance.

    As a result the average customer spending in Houston has always been substantially higher than in most other cities (barring Manhattan). The guys there would find one girl to spend a lump sum of money on and as a result, the average dancer made her money off of 2-3 customers per shift compared to working the floor and getting stage tips in other cities.

    Houston clubs were ans still are about time and company. The economic climate can't sustain that anymore and the club owners had to resort to different measures to cover their high overhead and make a profit.

    It is not fair to blame the dancers for providing extras. The game has changed and the same girls who do extras here given the chance to work in a city where they can make money going table to table selling dances will choose the dance route. Extras are survival. Plus many new dancers who never worked outside of Houston don't know any better. Houston is a city of haves and have nots. A lot of people grew up in less than desirable environments there and it is all about survival. A lot of people there are wealthy as well, but all in all in is a tough city with A LOT of hustles going on by the have nots to survive.

    One dancer was approached by a guy at St. James who said he would give her and her friend $3000 to spend ther night. Another girl told me that she would fuck all night for that kind of money.

    Girls who are struggling financially many times don't see having sex with someone for money as bad. They see it as easy money, and that they can wash up after it's over with money in their purses.

    Possibly clubs in Houston COULD if lap dances were legal and stage tipping were reinstated, have clubs with more of a party atmosphere, where girls go around table to table selling dances like in Arizona, and have lots of tip rail activity like in Montana.

    Over time that could give them a fresh start and make the clubs more of a place for guys to kick it, have a few drinks and buy tableside dances.

    But the better clubs there are so large and have so much overhead that they would have to be totally revamped to do that, and the owners have no incentive since they would lose a lot of money scaling back the dancers and driving away the goodies (meaning sex in the club) which brings in the customers.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    They don't even use the pool at St. James anymore. I only saw the shower show a couple of times. Its a really beautiful club though, too bad its a whorehouse.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    They don't even use the pool at St. James anymore. I only saw the shower show a couple of times. Its a really beautiful club though, too bad its a whorehouse.
    While this characterization of the club was arguably warranted 18 months or so ago, such is no longer the case. The club suffered through a prolonged period of harrassment by LE that didn't end until fairly recently and, between the changeover in dancers during the period of harrassment and what appears to be at least a modest change in the level of oversight by management since then, the club's operating quite a bit differently than the way it was before.

    In any event, IMHO there are currently several other "top tier" clubs in Houston that would merit being labelled as such way before the St. James would.
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    Featured Member FONDL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    I know nothing about Hoston clubs but what you all are describing is happening to some extent everywhere. While I strongly believe in the law of unintended consequences (eg. SUV's and the resulting current high gasoline prices are a direct result of government efforts to mandate higher mileage standards on cars), I think there are a lot of other reasons for these changes in clubs. Two important ones: (1) changes in IRS regulations have made expense account rules much more stringent, virtually eliminating one major and highly lucrative class of SC customer, and (2) the Internet has made other forms of adult entertainment (erotic massage, escorts, etc.) much more accessible. So you've got a declining customer base combined with more competition in my view causing these changes. The one factor that hasn't had any impact is the moral majority, much as many of you like to blame them for all your problems.
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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    I tend to think it's more like the moral MINORITY, acting like the majority

    Fondl, it's common knowledge that the loss of large expense accounts and the internet have contributed to the decline of SC business, but tight local laws (caused by the morality brigades) and subsequent haphazard enforcement most DEFINITELY have a direct, swift and negative impact on our business as well. We've seen it too many times.

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    Default Re: Change in the Houston Clubs over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday
    I agree with your post as well!
    TX, your post nailed the situation in Houston perfectly. I was dancing in '97 and everyday we were fear full of losing our jobs every single day. One day we were told to wear latex and full backs, the next day we were told we could go back to g-strings. Nothing was consistant at all. Many of us did retire or flee to studios. I stayed and rode it out. I can't tell you how much I donated to funds set a side to pay for lawyers fees in hopes of keeping the clubs open.

    I think what happened is many of the clubs got desperate for dancers and began to hire girls that would normally be turned away at a heart beat. Managers would ask us to bring friends in and would go as far as to offer free
    tipouts to those of us who did. Sometimes up to a week of paying no fees. All in hopes of keeping our customers.
    Most of these new dancers had no skills and no grace what so ever. Be a good dancer is so much more than taking off your clothes ! It became easier for them to began providing extras..During this time I still wore my gowns and I would be lucky enough to get those big spenders who came in looking for class. But I still remember the 2 times I almost lost my apartment and everything. Many of my friends lost everything and turned to drugs to help deal with their depressions.
    I really don't know what to do about the current situation in Houston. As sad as it may seem I got used to seeing all the extras and have kinda blocked it all out. I know that if 75% of the dancers were fired that many of them would lose everything. I think the managers and club owners need to stop pretending like the problem doesn't exist. Its so simple to call mandatory club meetings and let it be known extras will no longer be the norm. If any girl gets caught doing them they will get fired or be warned and then fired if it happens again. Many of the clubs I worked at ( I 've worked at a lot ) had no problem keeping the girls in line. They just began to care more about profits !
    I made a mistake about the year, it was '98. Thanks Tina.
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