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Thread: "Are you a cop?"

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    Veteran Member Foxey's Avatar
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    Default "Are you a cop?"

    True or false... I have heard that if you think that the customer you are talking to is an undercover cop and you ask them "Are you a cop?" that they have to tell you the truth or else it is entrapement or something like that. Is this true? Then someone else said you have to ask them three times. Does anyone know how this really works? Is there anyway of forcing an undercover to tell you that they are a cop?
    In a black light trance, then go go dance...

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    No, they are allowed to lie to you, be deceptive, employ trickery, etc.... they just can't induce you to commit a crime that you wouldn't have committed without their prompting.

    So, (X being an illegal act) if they ask "how much will it cost me to get you to do X?" it could be entrapment, but if you ask "do you want X?" and they ask "how much?" it is unlikely that it would be considered entrapment.

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    Featured Member MinahSky's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Out here in CAli, they have gone so far as to actually have sex with the ladies in massage parlors and THEN arrested them. Theya re not supposed to do it anymore, but you never know...

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    agreed, there is absolutely no legal requirement that undercover cops announce themselves, respond truthfully to inquiries about their LE status, or any other method whereby a dancer can determine that she is in fact dancing for an undercover cop.

    Personally, the short hair, the boots, and the 'I'm better than you' attitude always serve as dead giveaways.

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    Veteran Member ctstriptease1's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxey
    Then someone else said you have to ask them three times. Does anyone know how this really works? Is there anyway of forcing an undercover to tell you that they are a cop?
    Foxey, That's funny thing I've ever read on this site

    Trick: "Are you a cop?
    Cop: "Uh.. no"
    Trick: "Are you sure?
    Cop: "err... no"
    Trick: "Really?"
    Cop: "Okay you got me ..."


    Watch Cordelia on The Bad Girls Club on Oxygen

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Is there anyway of forcing an undercover to tell you that they are a cop?
    No, not really.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Personally, the short hair, the boots, and the 'I'm better than you' attitude always serve as dead giveaways.

    don't be so sure they all look like that! Some are pretty damned cute too!

  8. #8
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    How to avoid cops-

    * their body language is often less relaxed than a regular custie, probably not drinking alcohol while trying to solicit
    *they will use marked money to pay you for Act X they are attempting to solicit, to prove you accepted payment
    *abnormal sounding language used for the verbal solicitation (it'll sound different than what you usually hear- they have to make it clear on tape you understand exactly what they want, in either a formal extreme or a street slang sense)
    *"Set-up" houses or hotel rooms appear un-lived in, or too sterile.
    *Check his/ her ID. I have seen good undercover officer fake IDs, BUT for a sex vice operation, they might not look as good (less perceived threat to officer from subject, versus a drug sting.)

    * NEVER verbalize if you are going to make a "grey-area" transaction. Their case against you hinges on your self-indictment.

    These are just suggestions. If you are detained or arrested, do not speak to or fight with the officer and request an attorney. Depending on your situation, you might also want to retain a lawyer (it will make you less of an easy case to the police, and you may need to defend your name.)

    Good luck.

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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    How do you ask to check their ID?

  10. #10
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    How to check ID? In the club, you can make up a silly story (EX: about how bad your driver's license picture looks and ask to see his, or ask the waitress to card him and sneak a peek, or, act like you think he is giving a fake name and you want to prove who he is...)
    Most custies will not put up with such nosiness, but you'd be surprised. Some custies think it's cute (especially if you're acting ditzy/drunk)......An undercover will act weird about it, for obvious reasons.
    The tip works better for private party dancers, who NEED to check the ID of clients against the name & address of of the residence they are in OR what information the agency/ customer has already shared. A rapist or killer can break into an unoccupied home and call for a private show & never be traced or detected if he commits a sex crime or murder.

    PS To detect whether an undercover is wearing a wire, toy with his clothes, hair and hat (in a "sexy" way) or rub your behind against his front. You'll probably get a reaction out of him. For private shows, MAKE the client undress so you can see he has no wire- not foolproof but worth doing.

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    Featured Member Amethyst's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    ^^ Good advice! May I add...

    To check an ID: Tease them about how young they look and how they could not possibly be "X" age. "C'mon, there's no way you're 40!! Lemme see some ID,". (I also do this when I forget the customer's name, LOL). If they REALLY fight you on it, you may have a problem on your hands. It's not fool-proof, as the guy could just be really strict about his privacy (and good for him), but the only guy who ever said "no" to me turned out to be a cop.

    To check for badges: This same cop, after I busted him (I hugged him and felt the badge around his neck - it was hanging in the back. I still don't know if he was on duty or not), and I ended up doing dances. He gave me a couple more tips, like feeling a guys boots before getting naked as he could have a gun or badge in there, so I incorporated a move into my pre-lap-talk where I can rub down their legs OR just drop an earring and use their legs to get back up.

    Another: If you suspect someone is a cop, act like you KNOW EXACTLY who he is and say "HEYYY YOU!! So you're on duty tonight???" and watch for the reaction, particularly the deer-caught-in-headlights look or quick look around or to the other cop, suddenly sitting straight up, eyes darting everywhere... If the guy is NOT a cop, he'll just look at you like you're crazy, and may not even realize you're talking to him, to which you can say "Whoops! Thought you were someone else!!"

    Again, not foolproof, but it helps.

    This was mentioned in a thread about a year ago, but why don't strip clubs just install metal detectors, or have the bouncer run those portable metal detectors? Not only would it protect us from people coming in with guns, knives, Chinese stars, etc.., but it would also catch guns & badges the cops are coming in with? Surely the hand-held detector is not THAT expensive.


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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Amethyst I worked at a club where they had metal detectors but still vice cops came in...they tried to alert us as much as possible without alarming the vice cops.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by MinahSky
    Out here in CAli, they have gone so far as to actually have sex with the ladies in massage parlors and THEN arrested them. Theya re not supposed to do it anymore, but you never know...
    Columbus (OH) has busted a couple of massage parlors and a large brothel recently, and the vice squad's policies have been discussed in the paper. It is ok for cops here to engage in sexual activity for a brief period, just to prove it really happens, and that the massage girl--or dancer, conceivably--isn't promising happy endings without really going through with them (which would be for the consumer fraud unit, not vice...)

    Tippy

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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    The best way to avoid arrest is to know the laws and abide by them.

    Do not trust the club to tell you the laws, they WILL lie to you- look them up yourself- word of mouth is not recomended, even from fellow dancers.

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    Senior Member Underestimated's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    There was an undercover in my high school. My best friend's Mom was president of the PTA. I walked up to his desk one day, asked him if he was a cop. His response? "Let's go out into the hall." Then told me he was, and to please not tell anyone.
    The one time I was arrested by undercovers in the club, I managed to avoid the various other times...
    The two undercovers looked way too casual, if that's possible. Like they went overboard with flannel shirts and dirty jeans. And, invited too many girls to the table. Getting one dance from each of the too many girls. They also studied stage. Tipping each song, but not smiling, and whispering to one another more than just 'rate that girl's boobs.' I got busted for public masturbation since I touched my hood piercing on stage. Lame. They dropped the charges.
    You could call your local police department and ask if they have to tell you? Or, call a lawyer in your area and ask.

  16. #16
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Yes, it's true the club/ massage parlor/ agency will hang you out to dry in case of police stings. I used to joke that I trusted customers more than I trusted the people I worked for.

    Do your homework on laws, regulations and word on the street, and err on the side of caution.

    Everyone is perfectly aware of how some laws are un-enforced until someone gets a bug up their butt and wants to make an example out of people (case in point: San Francisco). IMHO this makes people respect the law less. It's all about money and power, baby.

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    Featured Member DSUsb19's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Whoever came up with the "ask 3 times" idea probably watches a little too much Wizard of Oz. "There's no place like jail. There's no place like jail. There's no place like jail..."
    *~If you play with reservation, you never play to your full potential.~*

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    The best way to avoid arrest is to know the laws and abide by them.
    Absolutely true. However, in many jurisdictions this is also a guaranteed means of going bankrupt. If the standard in a particular city is that virtually every club and virtually every dancer in those clubs is 'bending' the law on a nightly basis in regard to typical lap dance contact levels, and if the customer standard is to expect those contact levels in exchange for his hard earned money, then any one girl who decides not to provide the same contact levels that virtually every other dancer in town IS providing will quickly find her dancer earnings potential hovering around the level of a Wal-Mart check-out clerk.

    The real tragedy of this sort of situation is that it's one thing for informed dancers to have a full understanding of local laws and local club standards, and to then consciously decide to 'bend' the law on a regular basis to improve their earnings potential. It's another thing altogether when clubowners and club staff let naive dancers draw the incorrect conclusion that club standards for lap dance contact levels are in fact legal when they are not, because doing so creates a potential 'innocent victim' scenario if and when the naive dancer is busted. Given that 'ignorance of the law is no excuse', unfortunately the burden of researching local laws versus local club standards falls to the dancers, with the club having no legal obligation whatsoever to be truthful with dancers in regard to such questions (if the dancer even bothers to ask) as long as the dancer is working as an independent contractor.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-05-2005 at 03:03 AM.

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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    If you HAVE to knowingly bend the law to earn a decent income then either you are in the wrong business or the wrong city.

    I say get a new job or move.

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    Featured Member Crow's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    SouthernCharm, obviously you've never been in a raid or been arrested just because of city politics. I suggest you broaden your horizons and gain some more experience..

    Miss R.

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow
    SouthernCharm, obviously you've never been in a raid or been arrested just because of city politics. I suggest you broaden your horizons and gain some more experience..

    Miss R.
    Amen. You Go Girl - Tell It Like It Is! You don't have to be doing anything wrong to get arrested - in a club or elsewhere; All you have to do is be so unlucky as to wind up being in the wrong place at the wrong time or, instead, have the misfortune of finding yourself on the wrong end of somebody-with-horsepower's personal crusade.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
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    Featured Member Amethyst's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    ...All you have to do is be so unlucky as to wind up being in the wrong place at the wrong time or, instead, have the misfortune of finding yourself on the wrong end of somebody-with-horsepower's personal crusade.
    Exactly!! When my club had the "Big Raid", girls who weren't even DANCING got ticketed. One girl got a ticket for grabbing a guy's shoulder after she tripped onstage (topless)!! If she wouldn't have caught herself, she would've fallen off stage and onto the floor!!


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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    What they said.

    I'd add that in most areas, standard lapdancing is illegal and yet it's the normal way most of us make our money. The vast majority of us are knowingly bending the law to make our money - if we didn't we'd be straight out of business. Custies don't buy many airdances anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow
    SouthernCharm, obviously you've never been in a raid or been arrested just because of city politics. I suggest you broaden your horizons and gain some more experience..

    Miss R.
    If you read through this thread ) it's long so I can see why you might have skipped some pages) I HAVE been caught in a raid and have been arrested.

    In my situation I was lied to by the club about what the law was in that area.

    That experience on top of 10 years in the biz is where I got my perspective that you feel needs to be expanded .

    It is also why I have suggested in this thread not to trust the club or word of mouth from other dancers on laws. It is much better to find out what they are for yourself.

    That is also why I requested that someone who was local to the situation this thread is about post the laws. And someone kindly did just that. I am aware that they are quite a few Tampa area dancers who are members here and I thought they ( and anyone planning to go there to work) might benifit from knowing what was and was not legal in the county where these busts took place.

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    Default Re: "Are you a cop?"

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    No, they are allowed to lie to you, be deceptive, employ trickery, etc.... they just can't induce you to commit a crime that you wouldn't have committed without their prompting.

    So, (X being an illegal act) if they ask "how much will it cost me to get you to do X?" it could be entrapment, but if you ask "do you want X?" and they ask "how much?" it is unlikely that it would be considered entrapment.
    what exactly is x? it's not some type of illegal extra is it?

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