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Thread: Was I wrong?

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    Was I wrong?

    I had a situation happen yesterday and I would like other dancers opinions about whether I was in the wrong. I was working the day shift yesterday at a club in Clearwater. It was extremely slow, one of those days where your lucky to make tip out. We had 2 guys come in, both extremely **** up and they started flashing a wad of $20s. A friend of mine (another dancer) and I went up at started talking to them. After about 20 minutes we had both made a little bit of money, however these guys were very grabby. I had one guy ask me to go back for a dance so before I went I went to talk to our bouncer. Now keep in mind we tip out our daytime bouncer $5 for 2 1/2 hours work AND from 5pm on the customers pay a $5 entry fee to the dance area which goes to the bouncer. So I went up to the bouncer, explained the situation and asked if he could stay back in the dance area while I had this customer back there. We go back, the customer pays the $5 dollars and I begin the dance. Within 30 seconds this guy tried to grab my croth and tried to force my head in his crotch. I look around for the bouncer to get some help and he is nowhere to be found. Finally I get away from this guy, run out of the room and theres the bouncer in the DJ booth not paying any attention to what was happening.

    I had another girl witness what happened and she said I had to go to the manager and explain what had happened because that wasn't right that I had no bouncer back there. I don't like complaining but I decided to. I went back to talk to the manager, explained the situation and the managers response to me was "if you knew he was going to be a problem why did you take him back, you could have said no". I said it was because it was extremely slow at I decided to take the risk in the back because the bouncer agreed to be back there. Long story short, I got in serious trouble over this and the bouncer gets away with being lazy and doing nothing.

    I really would like other dancers opinions about whether I was in the wrong or not or what they would have done in a similar situation.

    Thank you
    Alexis

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    You weren't wrong, imo.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Just my 2 peso's....

    I wasnt there,im only going by your brief post,but yes imo,you did a couple of things wrong that i see.

    The door guy was wrong and you should never trust him with your back again,period.
    Im sure you will get many pep rally post supporting my observations about the doorguy,that doesnt remove your wrong in this situation.

    Your gut was telling you there was a problem with this guy,and you didnt listen.

    You started a lapdance without the doorguy being there,with a guy you KNEW was going to be a problem before you even went in the vip room.

    For you not to learn a lesson from this will be the biggest wrong.

    Im glad your ok and this didnt turn into something worse.

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Well, let's look at it pragmatically. Regardless of fault, you chose three things that turned out badly. You chose to try to arrange a different outcome from the customer in the private area than what you experienced his table behavior would indicate. You chose to expect the bouncer to do his damn job. And you chose to expect the manager to do his damn job when the bouncer didn't do his damn job. I'd say, based on what you knew at the time, only the first of those three was bad judgment on your part. But now you know more. You know not to expect a change in a customer's behavior for the better when he's in private, you know the bouncer doesn't have your back, and you know the manager doesn't give a sh*t about what the bouncer does.

    -Ev

  5. #5
    Member LemonLime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Wow, BGMM, tell it like it is.

    Feel sorry for you, honey, I really do.
    Krap like this happens to me sometimes.
    Again my sympathies.

    No doubt, you will get some talk about what you should have and should not have done. But this is all nothing but Tuesday morning quaterbacking.
    You made the decision, it is too bad it turned out bad.
    Heck, if everybody knew everything, life would be perfect. Now, wouldn't that be grand.

    Not everything is at a loss though, now you know where they stand, and more importantly where you stand in their eyes.

    Take care.

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    Member feistykitty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    If you've heard it once you have heard it a million times SAFETY FIRST! All of us; dancers, ex dancers, club owners or whatever, know how important it is for girls to stay safe at all times. It hardly matters WHOSE opinion it is....if you knowingly put yourself in a dangerous situation and did not take your surroundings/environment into account it is YOU who are wrong and you cannot blame it on anyone but yourself. It sounds harsh, but making sure that the bouncer was in the room BEFORE you started was your responsibility. Sure, I'd be pissed that he didn't show, but I would have made damn sure he was there...even to the point of saying to the custy "It's the rules...we have to make sure that I don't do anything TOO naughty >" or something to that effect. If he wanted you as bad as he seemed to, he would have waited happily.
    Be careful, sweetie....I hate to hear bad things happen to good girls!
    Kitty

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    I'm not trying to be a pep-rally tea party. Anyone that has read even some of my posts would realize that I'm not that way.

    To say "you shouldn't have done the dance if you were so worried about being grabbed" is totally unfair. We're SUPPOSED to be protected by the people that are SUPPOSED to be doing their job so we can all make a living. And if they are not, then it's your right to bitch to someone that can do something about it (whether he does it or not isn't the point of the OP's question...but for her to say something when a bouncer isn't doing his job...damned right she should.)

    When it's a good night, you can pick and choose your customers. When it's slow, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel just to make tip out. I think all of us DANCERS have been there where we have danced with a guy we didn't want to dance for because it was a shitty night.

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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    You said it Emily. Ive been there too. They may not the most pleasant customer in the place (or even the only one there) theres a chance to make money you can always try. You have a crappy option of:
    A) making no money that night and end up owing the club for the following night
    B) give bad customer a whirl and see if you can leave even just breaking even and not owing anything.

    Everyone is suppose to be doing their job; they get paid by the hour and tips as well. Why would a bouncer who also relies on tips not do their job? Do they want to be tipped? Thats why they work there to make money as well.


    I dont think you did anything wrong. Its not like you went home with the guy or let him touch you. You were trying to do your job and give a dance to at least not go home broke.
    you live like an ivy vine
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    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
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    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    I agree, we have to constantly deal with crappy, grabby customers and it's the club's job (this is what we PAY them for) to protect us when it gets out of hand. Unforetunately, we're a dime a dozen. I'm sorry that happened to you, bubbles.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Senior Member neve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    you should get your money up front and the second he touches you, walk out.

    also you shouldnt count on anyone to look out for you in a strip club because everyone is there for the same reason, to make their own money.

  11. #11
    Member JuliaChild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    To say "you shouldn't have done the dance if you were so worried about being grabbed" is totally unfair. We're SUPPOSED to be protected by the people that are SUPPOSED to be doing their job so we can all make a living.
    Every customer would grab if there were no consequence. Every last one. I don't know a single customer who wouldn't jump up and down if I said, "Yes, you can touch my ass." We push the limits of temptation. They want to be grabby and need to be kept in check.

    The bouncers and cameras are supposed to prevent customers from trying. If a hand goes awry, the bouncers are supposed to take care of the situation. Dancers shouldn't. We are 135 lb women against 200 lb men.

    Don't tip that bouncer until he apologizes.

    Next time you have a customer you suspect to be excessively grabby, collect the money upfront, song by song. It's awkward. However, they need to be controlled. They have to earn the right to be treated like nice, polite customers. You need the freedom to walk away without worrying about whether or not they'll pay you what they owe.

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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    I feel like I need to clarify a few things. The first being the bouncer knew I was about to start my dance because he collects $5 from the customer before the dance begins. I also collected my $20 up front just in case something did happen.

    Thank you everyone for your opinion
    Alexis

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    Senior Member neve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    also if you're doing a dance for less than 100 or 300 dollars tell them they can't touch you.
    explain that you might be willing to be more intimate for more money.
    that doesn't mean you'll let them grab you or whatever just tell them what areas you dont mind being touched like your back, stomach, outer thighs or arms

  14. #14
    Featured Member MinahSky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Always trust your instincts. Bottom line.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Do unto others as you would have them do to you...it's less work to be nice than it is to be evil!

    "Miss ChiChi, if you was my girl you would never cry from anything...except maybe happiness."

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Bubbles: Looking back at my original post, I apologize if it had an overly harsh tone to it. I think that was the result of the fact that I get real steamed when I hear stories about bouncers not doing their jobs and then the manager blows it off. But I should have left that attitude out of my response because it probably sounded like it was directed to you. That wasn't my intent. You got shafted, plain and simple, and it royally sucks. Heck, if the customer had behaved perfectly, the bouncer still didn't do his job because he strolled off. No excuses for that, and the manager was wrong to put the onus all on you.

    Nevertheless, I still say if a customer is repeatedly being grabby at the table in spite of admonishments, he's going to be hard to control in private, with or without the bouncer. Even on a slow night, is he worth the trouble? Only you can answer that for yourself on a case by case basis.

    Hey, best of luck.

    -Ev

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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    I don't think you were wrong. I know what day shift is like. It really, REALLY sucks, and you're lucky to walk out with enough money for the gas to get home.

    My question: did the bouncer come into the room and then leave?

    At the club I dance at, we do private dances behind a screen. The bouncer and the DJ can see things, and so can the bartender. I don't know how much I like this set up.

  17. #17
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    wow,this post got cleaned up!!!!!



    kewl,now maybe something can be learned from it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    To say "you shouldn't have done the dance if you were so worried about being grabbed" is totally unfair.


    This is not what i said,please read my post again.



    My point is that the dance should NOT have started without the doorguy being there,specially if she already knew the guy was going to be a problem.




    We're SUPPOSED to be protected by the people that are SUPPOSED to be doing their job so we can all make a living. And if they are not, then it's your right to bitch to someone that can do something about it (whether he does it or not isn't the point of the OP's question...but for her to say something when a bouncer isn't doing his job...damned right she should.)


    I think she should do MORE then just say something,I dont think she should EVER work or trust him again.I said that also in my post.



    But that doesnt excuse what she did and the potentially dangerouse position she may have found herself in with nobody there to help.

    Yes the doorguy sucked,but she should have waited.

    if I was her manager thats exactly what I would have told her,just after I fired the doorguy,I might have even fined her just to make sure she understood how seriouse I thought it was.

    If I was her dj,I would have knocked her in the head when she walked into the booth for putting herself in suck a risky position.

    if I was her friend,i would have told her how stupid she was,after i agreed with her rants on the doorguy.



    Im none of the above,im just giving a non tea party response to the issue.

    You never do a lapdance without your security,its risky and dangerouse,and wrong.



    I was nice about telling her also.

    If she hears my message,kewl.

    im not jumping her or flamming her,im trying to help her.

    (kinda like you should be doing as the mod imo,and offering more then a 3-4 "You weren't wrong, imo."word response for a dangerouse situation facing dancers everyday)



    Bashing me pointing this "wrong"out, is just that,"wrong"




    When it's a good night, you can pick and choose your customers. When it's slow, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel just to make tip out. I think all of us DANCERS have been there where we have danced with a guy we didn't want to dance for because it was a shitty night.


    Most are guys you dont want to dance for,but you keep up the fantasy for your custies here on SW,I dont have to.





    You dont trade your safety for cash on slow days.



    Yes you dance for guys you may not normaly ever look at,but to trade your safety for money is just wrong.



    Sure wish we didnt run off all the doorguys who used to post here,maybe they could expand on what im talking about.

  18. #18
    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    You don't get it. That's fine. I could explain it again, but those without tunnelvision already get it.

    And what does me being a mod have to do with anything?

    First, I'm the moderator of Ladies Only, not here....so I would never be having this discussion with you in the forum which I moderate.

    Second, my response is reasonable, even if it was short. The question was, "was I wrong?" There was no request for an essay on what a DJ who likes the clickety-clack sound his keyboard makes thinks of all this (not that that matters, I guess.)

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    You don't get it. That's fine.
    we dont agree,im fine with that.
    Im guessing its because we are looking at it from different angles.
    Your looking at it as a dancer,im looking at it from many angles,not just as a dancer.
    I often wish we still had alot of other industry people left here on the board to respond for the bennies of the girls for issues such as these,I guess they couldnt handle the bashings they were getting or it being allowed.
    Maybe if we had an owner or a manager still left,they could also tell you thier views on "if a dancer is wrong to start a lapdance without the doorguy there,for any reason".
    And what does me being a mod have to do with anything?
    ehhhhh your right,doesnt have much to do with it i guess.

    I just figured a mod would be the first to help a girl out,even if it ment telling her something she didnt want to hear,but kinda needed to,because it deals with her safety.

  20. #20
    Senior Member SW Siren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    No Bubbles, imo, you weren't wrong. I would have felt just as you did if that had happened to me.

    I do suggest finding a bouncer who is worth tipping and stick to working with him from now on though.

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    Veteran Member Foxey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    No, you were not wrong. I think the entire situation is bullshit. Like it was mentioned earlier in this thread we have all had those days where even the shittiest of customers seems worth it. I've done the same thing several times, when I've been unsure of the customer I've asked the bouncer, DJ, or manager to check up on us while we are back there. I've never had a problem with anyone leaving me stranded. I have been lucky. There is one case that is extremely out of the ordinary that I would like to share. I danced for a customer one night and he was HORRIFIC just about as bad as it gets. He was grabby and violently, forcefully so. I came very near to walking out on him without getting paid but he kept buying more dances and it was a slow night so I dealt with it all the while reprimmanding him and trying to calm him down. I ended up getting 4 dances out of him and I did get paid. I decided that he was not worth dealing with ever again. About a week later I notice a gentleman staring at me so of course I approach to offer a dance, well a few seconds into the conversation I realized it was the offensive customer. I promptly excused myself. Another week goes by and he shows up again, and again is staring. That time I recognized him and ignored him even though he was continually beckoning to me. Finally I walked by and he said EXCUSE ME I had to stop because there was no graceful way out of this one and I didn't want to appear rude to the surrounding customers. So I sat down. He asked for a dance and I explained to him that I was not comfortable dancing for him due to his previous behaviour. I told him what he did wrong and how he needed to behave. I didn't honestly expect him to listen but again it was a very slow night so this time I got my money up front with every intention of walking out the first time he did anything offensive. Well to my shock he was like a completely different customer. He bought several dances and kept his hands respectfully at his sides even though our club allows moderate contact. If I hadn't known better I would have thought that it was a different customer. I guess it just shows there is always an exception.
    In a black light trance, then go go dance...

  22. #22
    Moderator Optimist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Not to be an alarmist but you might consider changing the days you work to work with another manager/bouncer team. I've heard of dancers being raped and near raped because of the sick collusion of misogynists pretending to be support staff with predatory customers. Sometimes these guys tell their friends to come in and do whatever they want with the girls without the dancer's knowledge. If necessary change clubs to avoid being assaulted at work.

  23. #23
    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist
    Not to be an alarmist but you might consider changing the days you work to work with another manager/bouncer team. I've heard of dancers being raped and near raped because of the sick collusion of misogynists pretending to be support staff with predatory customers. Sometimes these guys tell their friends to come in and do whatever they want with the girls without the dancer's knowledge. If necessary change clubs to avoid being assaulted at work.
    I've treated a few of my bouncers the same way I have my DJs and managers, if they are there I either do not work that night or proceed with extreem caution.
    It is ridiculous that person meant to be our BOUNCER didn't do that, why is he there then?
    I now work at a club where the bouncer must be right there or I will get in trouble for starting a dance and frankly I have learned to LOVE it. The bouncers are ALWAYs watching to make sure nothing gets out of hand, pluys if they must leave their post they always have someone take their place.
    I have been man handled and held down at other clubs and had to struggle to get a away right in front of a bouncer (this was a club where the motto was that the customer is always right, HA)...
    I don't want to say she should quit because it's her right to work in a safe enviroment (or safe enough) especially if the bouncer is getting paid per dance (how often does that happen?) This just makes me think that the less a Dj, bouncer, or manager gets paid the better a job they seem to do because they aren't expecting more from us... Just my honest opnion and experience.
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



  24. #24
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    This is why I ALWAYS take care of the bouncers... I always greet them... am nice to them (joke and chat when its slow) and always tip them... so when something does happen or when i do need them they are around... I dont understand when girls give the whole "i dont tip them unless they do something for me" well, what happens when you DO NEED them and they ignore you because you never took care of them...

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Alexis81's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was I wrong?

    Hey BigGreenMnM if you read the original posts your notice the bouncer was there at the beginning of the dance and WALKED OUT after I started my dance
    Alexis



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