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Thread: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

  1. #101
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    To my surprise, she said that on the job injuries were very rare, and to my recollection she couldn't remember a single completely debilitating injury suffered by anyone. Given her experience in the profession, I beleive this to be an accurate account, and an illuminating one. First, it demonstrates that the need for true workers comp and disability is quite low. Second, it goes to show how the employment related costs of these coverages are somehow extremely inflated (even if at far less than the numbers quoted by Melanie above). Third, it shows that when given no alternative, people either tend to act in a much more responsible way or simple grin and bear it when they fuck up.
    You have indeed zeroed in on the relevant issues. I agree that the comp portion will be a function of how much 'abuse' of the system takes place. As I pointed out once upon a time, while I couldn't remember a single case of a debilitating injury, IC dancers like myself routinely continue to work with broken toes, sprains etc. because a.) we need the income and b.) the club would retaliate in some form or another if we didn't show up. If 'employee' treatment precludes both a.) and b.) from happening, then it will indeed be curious to see how many girls attempt to 'milk' the system.

    In the case of unemployment costs, this will also turn into a potential cesspool of abuse - mostly depending upon how local unemployment offices choose to classify 'other work' that dancers are qualified to perform. Dancers who choose to portray the 'Hollywood Stereotype' during their unemployment interview may indeed be able to collect unemployment for a very long time, as they may be deemed incompatible with 'straight job' alternatives.

  2. #102
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Okay - isn't part of the problem here that strippers are only nominally indies? That, in most places, they are de facto employees who have to pay the club? And are at least sometimes used in outside capacities (a girl on the blue side just mentioned that she cleaned the club after her shift!!!). I have no problem with indie status, as long as I am actually an indie - that is I come and go as I please - not according to a schedule I set at the beginning of the week, but I walk in, pay my club fee (a reasonable club fee, if you please) and I can walk out in an hour with no punitive action on the club owners part, if I feel like it. I can choose my own costumes, my own music - and ideally, I SHOULD be able to set my own prices (I'm personally willing to let that one slide). The law is not dictating that they need to be treated like employees - the law is recognizing that they ARE treated like employees. And they are treated like employees that are meant to be supporting the rest of the club - how many jobs in a strip club, that in a normal club would receive a paycheck (or packet), simply subsist on dancer tips? Like DJs, bouncers, coat check etc.

    Dancers are also treated very differently in different areas. To give you some idea of a system that actually works here (as in this is not a pipe dream of ideal dancer working conditions - this is actually how clubs run here - so trust me. The club owners CAN afford it). The club owners/manager pay a certain number of girls to work a full shift. They are paid very nominally, and they are paid in cash. (something like $50.00 a shift - possibly $10 more or less, but on average). For that, they are guaranteeing 3 shows (possibly 4) and a full shift - usually 7 hours of your presence. In a slow club these are all the girls that will be there. In a busy club, you will in addition to the "shift girls" get "freelancers" who come in and pay a certain amount (usually with a variation of $10 or $20 depending on whether you want to buy yourself off the stage) who work as they please, for however long they please. Now, they are ALL indies - it's just a matter of some of them are given incentive to work through the slow hours. Dance prices are set - although there are limited ways of policing them (if a girl is giving out twofers, for example) and we keep 100% of our dance money. I think this is a great system - it enables the club owners and managers to exercise approprite control over the club environment (by ensuring they have girls in when they open, for example) while still respecting the dancers status (as indies, not in the general sense).

    Bridg - I get what you are saying that girls who are worried about $50.00 a night probably shouldn't be dancers. But think about this - if a customer stiffed you $50, you would probably be pissed about losing it. You have to be earning quite a lot before $50 is less than 10% of your earnings. And whether or not you think they SHOULD be dancers, you can't viably deal with legal employment issues by saying "If you earn little enough to care, than you shouldn't be in the industry." That's just not the way it works - especially when, even on this board, I think the median earning hover somewhere in the vicinity of $200.

    By the way - isn't the Lusty Lady a peep show? Couldn't THAT be the reason that the earning are low, compared to lapdance clubs? I mean as opposed to a fairly amorphous connection between the lawsuit and the earnings.
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  3. #103
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Stant. I'm not saying if a girl doesn't like working as an IC and the risks involved that she should get out. I'm saying, if she can't make enough money to live comfortably and pay her own medical expenses as a IC stripper, she should get into another line of work. Too many substandard girls clogging up the industry, creating too much supply, making it harder for everyone to make money. I'm saying, if she can't cut the mustard, she should get the fuck out of the clubs.

    As far as the defacto employees thing goes. We choose to work in whatever club. If you don't like the way a club is run, you can go to one you like better. That's the best part of being IC - we don't have to stick around if we don't like what's happening at work.

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  4. #104
    Glamazon
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    As far as the defacto employees thing goes. We choose to work in whatever club. If you don't like the way a club is run, you can go to one you like better. That's the best part of being IC - we don't have to stick around if we don't like what's happening at work.
    A reasonable person would say that this entire lawsuit could have been avoided if these ladies would have just gone elsewhere. If I don't like working somewhere enough, I will just move on. I've done it before, and I would do it again. If I can reason that on my half a brain, then I'm sure that there are others who can do it, too. Hell, there was a time that I was struggling, so I went out and GOT A JOB with a PAYCHECK. We all have options, and some are more willing to seek those out, while others sit and complain, then cry about an injustice that was done to them.

  5. #105
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    So - just so I understand (and please keep in mind ladies that I am not a fan of unionizing dancers - I don't think enough of us care enough, nor am I a fan of turning us into employees - although the only reason that would ruin us is if club owners made it their business to ruin us. Which is pretty much the way things stand now, when you think about it. Ideally, I would like every club owner in North America to smarten up (okay, that might be demanding a little much) start hiring managers with management experience and ability and start paying decent staff, and treat us like real, live indies instead of golden geese. But hey - nobody ever listens to me). Anyway - dammit. I digressed. Digrossed? Digrosted? Nevermind. Just so I understand - you two are against any legislation protecting people from hazardous or unfair work environments, contending that dissatisfied employees (or contractors) should just go work someplace else? Or is that something just special for us? Companies - even clubs - can and should be responsible (even legally) for maintaining legal and ethical work environments. You can't possibly think that because we're strippers we are not owed the same legal protection as everyone else?

    And Glam - what about when injustices ARE done? We should all just ignore it? Say that strippers just have to put up and shut up? That because they are only screwing over US that they have no responsibility to that? I mean, isn't that SPECIFICALLY why we (or you guys - really, all of us) have labour laws in the first place? I flatter myself that I am a reasonable person, but it seems to ME that this whole lawsuit could have been avoided if the club owners/managers had maintained decent indie standards for their girls - or conversely, if they are so control-happy, started issuing a paycheck. I don't think that blaming the workers in a situation where their employer is breaking the law is particularly reasonable.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  6. #106
    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    The law is not dictating that they need to be treated like employees - the law is recognizing that they ARE treated like employees.
    You totally nailed it. Excellent explanation. Except for one thing: California has this funky law defining dancers as employees. This situation was already covered and more clearly under existing labor laws and case law exactly in the way you describe. The issue came to a head some years ago when California farmers were skirting minimum wage laws for migrant workers by treating them as IC's. The landmarks arising out of that case and those that followed could have been used, instead of some legislator mucking up the issue with a loop-hole infested law.

    - this is actually how clubs run here - so trust me. The club owners CAN afford it).
    Of course they can. Haven't you figured out what a bunch of no-good greedy bastards live south of the border from you? Some rich folks down here even pay for their homes with CASH. Can you beat that! Probably pay for their cows with CASH too.

  7. #107
    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    ....I'm saying, if she can't make enough money to live comfortably and pay her own medical expenses as a IC stripper, she should get into another line of work. ....
    OK this is a really weird coincidence....

    This is a quote from Howerd Stern's website in reference to the 8/31 radio show:

    Quote Originally Posted by 8/31 Howard Stern show
    A stripper named Bridget called in complaining that she has to pay for health benefits. Howard pointed out that most people have to pay something for benefits but this didn't deter Bridget...

  8. #108
    Member AllieC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Gold Club (s.f.) Dancers Notice Of Class Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Femmes Fatales
    Melonie that’s all the club owner’s want is the IRS around when most these clubs are just money laundering operations.
    The clubs will have to have the IRS around if we are considered employees.
    They will HAVE to report EVERYTHING that comes into the club.
    I would rather be an IC than be OWNED by a club who would sell me off to every customer possible to make their money and I would make as much as working at a resturaunt. Not to mention the freedom I have now would be null and void!

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