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Thread: Where is the international aid?

  1. #1
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Where is the international aid?

    Pretty quiet out there.

    I can tell you from a list serve I am on that is world-wide, I hear all kinds of "if the US can spend billions on Iraq they can clean up some water" from non-americans.

    I read on Drudge about European newspapers going on how we deserve it because of global warming.

    Good to know where we stand with our fair-weather friends and allies when we need em.

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    Featured Member former_LV_dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Afraid this will get too political, but I hear ya man.....for those who hate the USA as disgusting as the thought is, they are smiling at our tragedy. It's a messed up world that's all I'll say.

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Yeah.. If you all want to rant, that's fine. But let's keep it non poo-ish here in the Lounge. Thanks.

  4. #4
    mermaidnz
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    as a non american....ima gonna say, you guys helped out IMMENSLY with the tsunami of south east asia last year,and definatly deserve the same help back at ya.
    its not everyone fault bush spends money on military...people shouldnt be homeless and in unsanitary conditions for somehting so stupid.


    in saying that.....
    havent heard anything about hear about nz giving you guys money....and no red cross collectors have been knocking either.

  5. #5
    Member VetteKilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    We don't really need help. It would be nice for people to offer it, but we have so much. We have the means to clean it up.

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    God/dess fancygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    hmmm. It would be cool if rescue teams came in from other parts of the world, but I don't think we necessarily need money. Hopefully Bush will pull us out of a costly war (though I'm not sure what a good alternative is to what's going on). I am curious about whether the tsunami and the hurricane are related to global warming. If anyone has any links to newspaper articles, I'd be interested.
    Other than that--if the rescue teams come in, hopefully they spend some R&R time eventually in Texas and Florida strip clubs to help with the overflow of dancers : )

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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by fancygirl
    ...I am curious about whether the tsunami and the hurricane are related to global warming. If anyone has any links to newspaper articles, I'd be interested...
    link1

    link2

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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    I don't think individuals around the world are gloating about the incredible human suffering going on. The matter isn't nearly as simple as cleaning up a few big puddles. There are literally hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) people that have been displaced, most of them now jobless and homeless.

    We are not fully grasping the magnitude of this disaster. We see the aerial shots of flooding and it's sad, but it's even worse to hear the individual stories about families being separated with no place to go and no means of communication.

    International aid will help with some of the cleanup and rebuilding, but it will likely do nothing to alleviate the individual agony of the people whose lives have been turned upside down.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


  9. #9
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    And, the reason we help in most cases is because we have the resources to help other countries that can not help them selves. I don't know if it a fair expectation to think that all of a sudden they have the resources to assist us.

    I also wonder about our "American attitude" of self-reliance. Would we really accept a bunch of foreign people helping us? I doubt if they would be let into the country.

    I have heard this voiced by those who really want an isolationist policy. The real message is ,"Don't help other countries because they won't help us". I personally don't agree with that philosophy. But then again, I don't agree that spending billions on dropping bombs on someone and then taking over their country is helping them...

    On second thought, I am glad other countries don't come running.. what if they define helping us as the same way we help them??? Oh, I guess they have..

    Nevermind.

    Hey Nina Daisy, are you on a new diet? Your cute butt has totally disappeared..

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by NinaDaisy
    We are not fully grasping the magnitude of this disaster.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head with the understatement of the year. How many people not only have no homes, but also have no jobs and no potential for restoration of their businesses? There's no economy left in those areas. Plus with all the natural gas and gasoline production out of commission, I think the rest of the country is in for a very big economic shock from a continuing ripple effect in the coming weeks. Think rationing, long lines and escalating prices for everything. I hope that I am being overly pessimistic and will be proven totally wrong.

    -Ev

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    A better question would be:

    Why did the Bush adminstration cut funding for shoring up levees and disaster preparation and instead send that money to Iraq?



    Each time you hear a federal, state or city official explain what he or she is doing to help New Orleans, consider the opening paragraphs of a July 24 story in the New Orleans Times-Picayune.

    "City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own."

    The story continues:

    "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation."
    http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/o.../01edwitt.html

    "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did appreciate a serious storm but these levees got breached and as a result much of New Orleans is flooded and now we're having to deal with it and will," he (Bush) said.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4204754.stm
    Like almost everything of import that Bush says to the American people, this statement is a blatant lie. The levees being breached was widely anticipated, I specifically remember it being mentioned repeatedly in the news prior to the storm hitting.

    In fact, this disaster has been widely anticipated for years:

    The worst-case scenario here - a direct strike by a full-strength Hurricane Ivan - could submerge much of this historic city treetop-deep in a stew of sewage, industrial chemicals and fire ants, and the inundation could last for weeks, experts say.

    f the storm were strong enough, Ivan could drive water over the tops of the levees that protect the city from the Mississippi River and vast Lake Pontchartrain. And with the city sitting in a saucer-shaped depression that dips as much as 9 feet below sea level, there would be nowhere for all that water to drain.
    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...annawlins.html

    "No one anticipated the breach of the levees" is a lie just as "no one anticipated planes being used as weapons" was a lie.

    The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

    Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

    When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.
    National Geographic, October, 2004
    No one can say they didn't see it coming.

    For years before Hurricane Katrina roared ashore Monday morning, devastating the Gulf Coast, officials from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama have been warning about their vulnerability to the storms that swirl menacingly in the Gulf of Mexico every hurricane season.

    -snip-
    The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House. Ultimately a deal was struck to steer $540 million to the state over four years. The total coast of repair work is estimated to be $14 billion.

    In its budget, the Bush administration had also proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need.

    Some critics said that in a post-Sept. 11 world, when the Department of Homeland Security is focused on preventing another terrorist attack, not enough emphasis is being placed on preparing for natural disasters.

    A case in point, they say, is the decision to take away from FEMA its historic responsibility for disaster preparedness. Now the agency, part of the Department of Homeland Security, will focus on post-disaster search and rescue.

    The Homeland Security agency plans to create a new Directorate of Preparedness, covering planning for both terrorism and natural disasters. But it is still on the drawing board.
    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...utlook/3333822
    Last edited by dlabtot; 09-01-2005 at 12:33 PM.

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    Senior Member pet_rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Sorry--but until we relocate everyone along the San Andreas fault we can't say 'we should have shored up the levees.' We KNOW The Big One is going to hit the fault and we KNOW that even if we rebuild N.O. but leave it below sea level it WILL get hit again with another huge storm which WILL flood it despite how many levees or how they're built.

    Myabe we could have shored them up recently to keep it safe from Katrina, but that might ultimately make it worse. If this storm costs 25 BILLION and x number of lives, 10 years down the road it might be 200 billion and 10 times the lives lost because there WILL be another storm that will be more powerful, hit at a different angle and stall over the area dumping torrential rain in the bowl even if the levees don't fail...

    N.O. grew up there because it was easy to ship goods up and down the mighty Mississippi. I knew it was a major port but even I didn't know it was the single largest port in the US. So SOME sort of port will have to rebuilt, but right there at the current site or maybe farther up-river minimally above sea-level is a better idea?

    Since we're NOT going to relocate everyone in CA we just have to accept that people will just continue to play roullette with known but distant risks like insisting on building on the sea-shore and on fault lines and hillsides and in places where there is no ready supply of fresh water etc.

    Having said all that, it DOES seem like response HAS been slow. The first thing I would have done is send the barges which have been idled down the river bearing hundreds of donated aluminum fishing and/or pleasure boats along with water and cereal. Being such a high-tech nation we insist on using hi-tech helicopters to rescue people in ones and twos instead of thinking low tech terms that anyone can understand and use...

  13. #13
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    ^^^ you are actually arguing that we should not prepare for disaster? unbelievable.

    Your argument that "Sorry--but until we relocate everyone along the San Andreas fault we can't say 'we should have shored up the levees.'"

    is utter idiocy -- like saying that because I know that someone else definitely will die from cancer, I shouldn't buckle my seat belt.

    Having said all that, it DOES seem like response HAS been slow.
    Gee, most of Louisiana's NG troops, and ALL of their high-water vehicles are in Iraq... maybe that has something to do with it... but the response, whether good or bad, does not excuse the lack of preperation.

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    Featured Member tragic-beauty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    with all the aid the usa has given to other countries.. you would figure that SOMEONE would be willing to help out in this disaster.. but so far all im seeing is.. "HA-Ha thats what you get" kindof BS... We sould recive help or atleast offers of help weather or not we need it..


    but what can you expect when you have a world full of morally corrupted and jaded people..


    Makes me Sooooo angry

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Ok kids-

    We've had groups standing by since about 2 minutes after the leaks started, and the reason Canada has not been able to get down to help yet is that we have not been authorized or given instructions. We're not allowed to just show up, you know.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

    Besides being drained by the Tsunami earlier in the year, it's true that many countries probably won't 'get' the magnitude until offical death tolls are released. You can bet that aid will pour in then.

    I don't think the world is making fun of you- I think you're being paranoid. Some random fringe publications aside, I'm sure most of the world is as horrified and saddened as you are.

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    "State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Wednesday 10 to 12 foreign governments have offered general assistance to the United States to deal with the hurricane aftermath. No decision has been reached about accepting the offers." http://www.journaltimes.com/articles...8099133083.txt

    Quote Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
    I don't think the world is making fun of you- I think you're being paranoid.
    Agreed.

    Seraya.
    Last edited by seraya; 09-01-2005 at 01:51 PM.


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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by tragic-beauty
    but what can you expect when you have a world full of morally corrupted and jaded people..
    And i assume that that US are not included in that statment

    Seraya


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    Senior Member pet_rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Sigh, dlabtot, it's obvious that you have a political axe to grind. I never said I was against preparing for disaster--which by the way, is by definiton UNPREPARABLE for since it's only a disaster when it exceeds your ability to deal with it--read everything that I wrote.

    Now consider New York City and hurricanes--what are you going to do to prepare NYC? After all it's the 3rd most threatened city in the US according to this scary link http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/...ne_future.html. What are we doing right now for Miami, for that matter?

    Then you mention more hi-tech gadgets that are overseas--what we need is Bubba and his pierouge to pull people out--but we've become such a government bound nation that we are in a sense a nation of victims. What I mean is that it's great that the people are going to get all sorts of aid, but we let the government handle it all so that they can track and file and put you in a database. You don't go out and start rebuilding like you would in a third-world nation--your job becomes filling out forms. The government discourages people with the can-do attitude from just jumping in and helping out--approved agencies only!--and say instead just send money...


    Scarlett_vancouver, you're absolutely correct and I think that most of the rest of the world agrees with our friends to the north and will chip in when the US allows it! (As the following posters pointed out.)

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    Featured Member former_LV_dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Like almost everything of import that Bush says to the American people, this statement is a blatant lie. The levees being breached was widely anticipated, I specifically remember it being mentioned repeatedly in the news prior to the storm hitting.
    It's great to jump on the Bush bashing bandwagon...but seriously....this can go back to Clinton and previous presidents....New Orleans has been a city below sea level for a long time....so....let's just focus on the problem at hand and stop pointing fingers in the middle of a disaster.

    One more thing, for people who are saying aid is not coming in fast enough....the looters and armed looters are freaking slowing the process down of getting to the people who need help.

  20. #20
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    The facts are what they are. No President can raise the level of New Orleans, the question is whether funds needed for disaster preparations were diverted to other uses.
    More background: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0831-04.htm

    And it really is untrue to say that the breaching of the levees was an unforeseen situation. If someone wants to characterize that untruth as something other than a lie, that's their choice.

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    Featured Member former_LV_dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    I never said anyone can raise the level of New Orleans. Simply saying that we all knew long before GW Bush that the levees could be a serious problem....so focus on helping instead of pointing fingers and whining about Bush. Whining is not gonna help the people in need at this very moment.

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    I agree. The blame game has to stop. It's not going to help these people. They need assistance, and prayers. If you can spare time, money, blood, or goods, do it. Unfortunately, all I can do is give blood at the time. Monetary donations are just not available on this end with our move coming up on Sunday.

    To be honest, I was flipping out a bit myself, sitting here watching footage of people BEGGING for help. I kept thinking: "Where the hell is FEMA, and why aren't they delivering on the promises they've made?" And then I thought about it... How are they supposed to help when people are trying to shoot down helicopters and the people that have been sent there to protect and help them? It's impossible. They're working on fully restoring order. That must be done first before anything.

    So let's stop the blaming before it really gets going here. Think about how NOLA and the other areas can be helped. Think of what you can personally do to help the families that are now homeless. THAT will make a difference. Complaining about the government during this time, will not.

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    The U.S. has donated many millions in foreign aid to countries that are suffering (although a much smaller proportion of the GNP than for example, Saudi Arabia. Or Finland. I'm just saying). The Tsunami relief was particularly recent. But, just I understand - are we suggesting here that Thailand is in a position to commit substantial foreign aid to the US? Are we willing to say that the US is now a developing nation that requires foreign aid? I think the answer to some of the questions is perfectly obvious.

    That being said international aid agencies - charities and such - have been all over Katrina - including the Canadian Red Cross and Canadian Blood Services. I would be very surprised if other foreign branches of charities like United Way and Unicef were not also contributing. There are already local drives and such in Toronto dedicated to it.

    From where is anyone getting a Ha ha vibe? That is terrible, and I don't want to dismiss it as paranoia, but I must say it is a little out of the realm of reactions that I have seen.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  24. #24
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    Well back to the original post topic:

    In a dramatic turnabout, the United States is now on the receiving end of help from around the world as some two dozen countries offer post-hurricane assistance.

    Venezuela, a target of frequent criticism by the Bush administration, offered humanitarian aid and fuel. Venezuela's Citgo Petroleum Corp. pledged a $1 million donation for hurricane aid.

    The United Nations informed U.S. Ambassador John R. Bolton it was prepared to support the relief effort "in any way possible." Under Secretary-General Jan Egeland said his office had offered the services of the U.N.'s disaster assistance and coordination teams to the U.S. Agency for International Development.

    Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sent a letter to President Bush offering hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health.

    "We also offer field hospitals, medical kits and equipment for temporary housing, reinforcement for hospitals, or any assistance that you may require," Sharon wrote.

    He said the teams and equipment could be ready in 24 hours.

    With offers from the four corners of the globe pouring in, Secretary of State
    Condoleezza Rice has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Thursday.

    However, in Moscow, a Russian official said the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency had rejected a Russian offer to dispatch rescue teams and other aid.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_world_offers

  25. #25
    Senior Member SW Siren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the international aid?

    It figures that Bush would refuse help being offered. The man seems to really get off on watching or causing human suffering.

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