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Thread: MW's HG OTC

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    Thumbs up Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    It all began last weekend. Ms. J recently celebrated her birthday. The night before her birthday last week P and I were in the booth getting her so sloshed that she could barely walk straight. She’d finish one shot and we were ramming another in her face. It was great. This past weekend, just a few days after her birthday, she approached P and asked his opinion about my offer.



    Let me give you a little P/MW background. He has seen the full evolution of MW. He’s seen me go from drooling lap pup with starry eyes to what I might now consider a very saavy customer with an eye and drive for the prize. Knowing the inner workings of such an establishment affords me the opportunity of picking my spots and finding unfathomable enjoyment in the most unbelievable situations. The DJ booth is truly the place where anything goes… I do mean anything.



    So she asks him if he would think any lesser of her and he (always erring on the side of his boy) encouraged her and told her if it were anyone else he would see it as tricking and nothing more. She’s “different” though. Afterwards he called me that night, filled me in, and I told him I would close the deal. Of course I thanked him for his words of wisdom..lol



    Ms. L is now bartending. I never thought I would frequent the SC long enough to see that evolution. The smile is the same but she’s a bit larger than she was when she was dancing due largely in part to her production of daddy baby #3.



    Tuesday night I venture in with a certain look in my eyes. At first glance you might have thought I was Mariano Riviero stepping up to the rubber to finish it off. J and I meet up in the booth and she gives me a gigantic hug. After her stage set off we go to the LD area. She’s a lot more playful and “attentive” than usual.



    MW: So when do you want to go on our little play date?



    J: I have to check the schedule. Probably Sunday. I’ll go make my next week’s schedule right now. I’ll be right back.



    Off she goes only to return minutes later confirming Sunday the 21st as her next day off. We settle on Sunday night at 9pm. On this night my sole purpose for being there was to close the deal. While back in the booth with J and P the manager walks in and tells her she can’t do Sunday. “Well, just do Wednesday then” she says. He pencils her in for Weds and off he goes. This is music to my ears as Weds is tomorrow!



    I call her Weds night at around 8:30 and pick her up at 9pm. I had already taken a chance by getting a room earlier that day. If she flaked I was out $90 bones. Tonight there would be no flakiness at all. I picked her up at 9 and off we went to see a movie. She had wanted to see “The Skeleton Key” so I took her to catch the movie. It actually turned out to be pretty good. The movie was set in the bayou just outside of New Orleans. It involved lots of hoodoo religion and was strange to say the least but very good too. I won’t spoil it for anyone. It has its scary moments too. I give it three and a half stars. (3.5/5)

    (continued below)


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    Featured Member Moneywise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Afterwards she had wanted to smoke some cheeb to loosen up but I was not about to stop at the nearest drug dealer to buy. That’s not my style. You either have it or you don’t but MW won’t be making any stops. So we stopped by a store and picked up some wine. All the while I am marveling at her ass. She has the most prefect little ass I have ever seen (with the exception of kitty kat’s hot little flavorful onion). “Where are we going to drink this” she asks. I reply with an empty stare. She laughs and says “alright I won’t ask any more questions”.



    A few minutes later we arrive at the hotel. It has an elevator which we take to the second floor. After we enter the room she kicks off her heels, grabs the remote and lies on the bed on her stomach. She’s wearing a cute little tan halter top with some skin tight jeans which flare at the bottom and some 4 inch pumps. She was looking incredible.



    J: (insert worthless BFs name here) knows I’m with you.



    MW: Good.



    J: No oral ok. That’s too intimate.



    MW: (empty stare)



    I crack open the bottle and toast with her. I had brought a little travel bag up too. While enjoying some videos I pull out the condoms & massage oil. I like this particular oil I purchased about 10 years ago at the Body Shop in Sydney. The smell is incredible and this oil is perfect for massage. I gently straddle her back side and begin to massage her back starting at the small of her back and working my way up to her shoulders. Her bra is slowly undone and her shirt is slipped over her head. With a healthy bit of oil I begin to give her a relaxing back massage. Her back arches a bit as I work sweet circles around her lower spine. My work elicits soft moans from her which serves to raise my blood pressure a little. I couldn’t take much of the back arching without seeing the ass in the air.



    I reach around, undo her belt, and slowly work those skin tight jeans down around her ankles until they’re off and in a corner. She’s wearing some little red undies. They’re so cute. They lasted about 5 seconds.



    Here she lies now with that perfect ass begging for attention. I rub some oil between my palms and work it into her butt cheeks. He legs part a bit as my hands begin to explore even further. She’s very wet. While massaging her ass and occasional finger slips down and runs itself across the length of her sexy bits. I’ve never heard her moan like this before and it’s causing Frazier to lobby for freedom. Off comes the shirt and shorts. I slowly peel down my undies to expose Frazier. She smiles with approval at first glance.



    MW: turn over baby.

    She slowly turns until she’s on her side. As I lie down beside her my face is inches away from her box. “no oral. that’s too intimate” rings in my ears. I love a good challenge. J



    I reach over and slowly pull her onto me until she is straddling my face. The lights are low but I can still see the full beauty of her box. As I pull her onto me my tongue softly greets her love box. At the very same time she has began to pull on Frazier. The tip goes in and before long we’re both engaged in some hot 69 action. The room is filled with the sound of slurping as we both finds enjoyment in the current food of choice. Her moans begin to get a little louder and she starts to grind her box down onto my tongue which has been working sweet circles around her clit. As I alternate from circles to lapping like a dog the moans get even more intense. My hands are around the outside of her thighs. I pull her cheeks apart to expose the pink of her box and lap away at it. Occasionally an index finger finds its way inside. I’m not sure if she’s done anal but a good guess based upon its condition is yes she has indeed done it. As the index finger explored her pussy and I tasted her bits my middle finger occasionally worked circles around her anus. She appeared to enjoy this and didn’t offer any objections to it.



    She gives really good oral. I found humor in the fact that she tried to set some ground rules. I hardly ever play by the rules. I turn her over onto her back so that her legs are extended onto the floor and kneel down while taking her legs over my shoulders and continue to playfully tongue her clit. She pulls both legs back almost behind her head. DAMN. I begin to suck and lick with more ferocity as she moans even louder. Her body tenses and tells me something wonderful is about to happens. While grabbing my head she says “oh shit” and moans loudly as she braces herself. I sucked her clit throughout while running my tongue north and south over it. I love it when a woman lets go. She was very relaxed now. I reach over for a condom and slip it on. While still in mish I slowly insert the head in and work it in until I am buried to the hilt. She’s really wet and I find that to be an incredible turn on.



    As we engage in a passionate medley you can hear my balls slapping against her ass as I fuck here wildly. I have to have her in my favorite position. I just have to. I take her left leg and roll her over onto her side being careful to keep Frazier inside throughout. With her left leg now resting on top of her right leg and bent to expose her sweet box I thrust away. I already know she likes her hair pulled and, while fucking her from behind I reach down and grab a handful. With my full strength I squeeze and pull hair until her head is arched backwards. She absolutely loves this! Her reaction was enough to almost send me over the edge.



    “Does (insert worthless BFs name here) know you like this?” I ask while my shaft is pounding her box. “Yes” she replies. I probably shouldn’t have said that but you know me. After a good bit of sexing in my favorite position she now knows that Frazier is no preme. Frazier likes to savor the flavor. J



    The hair pulling was really turning me on because it didn’t matter how hard I pulled. She began to moan loudly again and I could tell she was about to let go again. Suddenly I found myself about to lose all control. My hand tightened around the mound of hair I had in it and I pulled hard as I let it go inside. Fucking amazing… At that very moment I was thinking this rankled up there with some of the best sex I have ever had. We lied there for a few minutes and talked.



    J: (afterwards) So am I the only girl at (insert club name here) you've had sex with?

    MW: Of course (she actually is. The 19 yr old Ms. J was at the other club).

    J: I thought you and Ms. L would have hooked up.

    MW: Nope. I've very picky. I'll stop short of using a rating system but let's just say you tickle my fancy in a way she never did.

    J: (smiles as she lies there on the bed looking at the ceiling)



    J: Well this will be our little secret ok.



    MW: I won’t tell if you won’t tell.



    We both laugh.



    I wanted to shower but she needed to get back and get some sleep so that she could greet the boys in the morning. It was now 2am and the boys would be up at 6. So we clothed and enjoyed a few laughs as we made our way down to the counter. She enjoyed the fact that I had that look on my face as though I just got fucked extremely well. Truth be told, she did too.. haha



    While driving her home I slipped 3 large into her purse as she directed me on how to get there by way of the “back roads”.



    “I’ll have to remember these directions so the next time we do this I will know where to go” I said. She nodded with approval and said “now I can get my car registered”. I chuckled to myself, kissed her goodbye, and headed home.
    Last edited by Moneywise; 08-19-2005 at 09:06 AM. Reason: because I like to


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    God/dess Mastridonicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")




    Whoa!


    WHOA!

    *Clap*


    ::Mast::

    Is "Large" a hundred or a thousand?

    Just curious :/

    ::Mast::
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Featured Member Moneywise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    3 large for me means $300. I'm still thinking about it and in an FBR-like way planning the next one in my head. *grin*


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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    You know you're my boy Money, but that DJ sounds like a world class asshole. At least someone is getting laid around these parts though, certainly isn't me....

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Not to be a downer, but how can you possibly think that's cool? Getting someone that this (evidently) borderline retarded girl (who seems to, for some reason, actually like you) trusts to manipulate her into turning tricks? God. I don't think any of my DJs would ever do anything that despicable to me - let alone go out to get me in a state where my judgement was compromised so that that I would be that much more susceptible. (And just so you realize how low that actually is, I once had a DJ tell a customer not to go out with me because I was a fucking bitch who was only interested in money. Hee. Even he would not try to talk me into hooking to gratify one of his friends.) That's not even just you out for what you can get, and screw everyone else - that's just really, really despicable.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    J: (afterwards) So am I the only girl at (insert club name here) you've had sex with?
    Funny why she would even ask. ....Or care for that matter.

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    Featured Member MinahSky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Seems to me that she was sober enough the next night...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Do unto others as you would have them do to you...it's less work to be nice than it is to be evil!

    "Miss ChiChi, if you was my girl you would never cry from anything...except maybe happiness."

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    I thought he was just playing cupid in a twisted way. For the record Jenny, he's a grown man. I don't have any magical powers. Oh, she's actually a grown woman too.

    Have you ever thought of it from a different perspective? Perhaps I was being manipulated into giving up some benjamins. I feel so violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    You know you're my boy Money, but that DJ sounds like a world class asshole.
    P and I tend to get a little carried away with the fun at times. I will tell you a little story in your PM.


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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    You know you're my boy Money, but that DJ sounds like a world class asshole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Not to be a downer, but how can you possibly think that's cool? Getting someone that this (evidently) borderline retarded girl (who seems to, for some reason, actually like you) trusts to manipulate her into turning tricks? God. I don't think any of my DJs would ever do anything that despicable to me...
    Getting Ms J drunk on her birthday was bad, but you misunderstand the rest of it. She wanted to do MW, and she wants DJ P to like her. By declaring a J/MW encounter "different," P gave his blessing. (I've gotten a lot of mileage out of absolving dancers.)

    J declared oral "too intimate" to give herself a bigger rush when she did it. She mentioned the BF to get a bigger rush. MW played it well. He could have said, "Does (insert worthless BFs name here) know you like being a dirty little freak? He's looking at you (insert explicit description) right now." But then she might have come too soon. He can say that next time.

    It's all about the now; it's all about the rush. You have to keep coming back with new and more exciting stuff she's never done before.

    I once had a favorite who always initiated DFK. One day she told me she couldn't do that anymore because it made her feel guilty. She said she always kissed her little boy goodnight. I understood and respected her reasons. After that, whenever she was humping on the edge, she'd initiate DFK to get off. She just wanted a hotter trigger.

    I don't think Ms J is borderline retarded. I just think she's a normal horny girl who has excellent taste.
    Last edited by SportsWriter2; 08-20-2005 at 07:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Hey ya only live once? Right?

    Lets not turn this into a religious battle. You 'reborn' religious types

    MW could write porn I'm sure tho.

    Us berated subpar males will watch from the sidelines and be completely in awe of the shameless details of those running the field.

    I agree with sporty tho, This was consensual, she just had a quirk. She just wanted a hotter trigger. I fully believe this person did not show ANY desire to not be in the situation she was in.

    Play on Playah

    ::Mast::


    Oh I found it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    DUDE!
    I already told you. Strippers are DIFFERENT! Relationships with strippers are DIFFERENT! They don't get all clingy and possessive - they are wild, wild girls who, once you have tamed them, will do ANYTHING YOU WANT! You want to sleep with someone else? She won't care! You want her to go down on your best friend while you watch? She'll be happy to! Now, do you really want to blow this, just let her go until the next guy picks her up?

    Remember - ANYTHING YOU WANT.
    Jenny, I'm not quoting you here to spite you, just imho, this is exactly what mw fucked the shit outta. Thats all. And for only 3 Large! Man When I read that I thought it MUSTA been thousands.... maybe there is hope for ugly guys like me with the occaisonal deep checkbook

    ::Mast::
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    I never argued it wasn't consenual - and I agree it clearly was. However if she had no ambivalence about being there she probably wouldn't have asked the guy in the first place. She asked his advice and MW specifically details how the guy gave the advice specifically to benefit him, not her. That is not nice. And evidently this guy has a history of lying to and manipulating dancers to sexually gratify one of his friends. It's nasty and horrid. Honestly, it's one thing when customers do it - you can't expect customers to look out for you, and there is certainly no violation of trust when they lie and and manipulate you (or attempt to) - in this case however, with the DJ, there clearly is. Again - it's nasty and horrid and not at all a nice way to treat people. And I think there is a greater possibility that MW is right and that the DJ and idiot dancer got together to bilk HIM out of 300 than she was just asking the DJ for advice for further sexual gratification - which, if that was what she was really after she wouldn't have charged at all. Okay. I have posted on the topic - I really was going to keep my mouth shut (or my fingers... still?) But - yeah, right. That was going to happen. I realize I am not changing any of your minds and I am perfectly content to now let you all continue to salivate over... well, you know. These things.

    And Mast - I don't take it spitefully at all. But you do realize that the post you are quoting was facetious, right? That I was making fun of someone, right? And that (most of all) IT ISN'T TRUE? (because that is what makes it facetious and funny).
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    I never argued it wasn't consenual - and I agree it clearly was. However if she had no ambivalence about being there she probably wouldn't have asked the guy in the first place. She asked his advice and MW specifically details how the guy gave the advice specifically to benefit him, not her. That is not nice. And evidently this guy has a history of lying to and manipulating dancers to sexually gratify one of his friends. It's nasty and horrid. Honestly, it's one thing when customers do it - you can't expect customers to look out for you, and there is certainly no violation of trust when they lie and and manipulate you (or attempt to) - in this case however, with the DJ, there clearly is. Again - it's nasty and horrid and not at all a nice way to treat people. And I think there is a greater possibility that MW is right and that the DJ and idiot dancer got together to bilk HIM out of 300 than she was just asking the DJ for advice for further sexual gratification - which, if that was what she was really after she wouldn't have charged at all. Okay. I have posted on the topic - I really was going to keep my mouth shut (or my fingers... still?) But - yeah, right. That was going to happen. I realize I am not changing any of your minds and I am perfectly content to now let you all continue to salivate over... well, you know. These things.
    I can't argue that. I guess to a degree its not cool. But I read moneywise's post as if she KNEW the DJ KNEW MoneyWise, and she Asked the DJ because she KNEW she was going to get positive reinforcement and Justification that she wouldn't get from a DJ/person that DIDN'T know Moneywise. I mean hell, I do that. I have problems with the employee, I go tell MY friends cause I kinda WANT to hear them supporting MY actions. Not theirs. blah blah blah.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    And Mast - I don't take it spitefully at all. But you do realize that the post you are quoting was facetious, right? That I was making fun of someone, right? And that (most of all) IT ISN'T TRUE? (because that is what makes it facetious and funny).
    Right. I wanted to make a joke here that I thought you where serious, and make me look even more retarded, but I couldn't think of one. Yes I knew it was spiteful, but since there is that "(most of all)" I thought it was relevent here too.

    ::Mast::
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Member NadiaRX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    By the same token sectum, the girls who get exploited are not usually the ones trying to exploit - although they probably LEARN to exploit custies AFTER being exploited themselves. This business isn't for the faint of heart.
    Who was exploiting who here?

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    It's all about the now; it's all about the rush. You have to keep coming back with new and more exciting stuff she's never done before.
    Exactly.

    Mindfucking is entirely underappreciated, but absolutely vital. It's a subtle transaction because the rush comes from violating limits that you've supposedly agreed to. It works because the 'deceit' is an implicit condition of both the offer and the acceptance. It's an art form.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    I thought he was just playing cupid in a twisted way. For the record Jenny, he's a grown man. I don't have any magical powers. Oh, she's actually a grown woman too.
    Yes they both are adults. She could have said no.

    Quote Originally Posted by MinahSky
    Seems to me that she was sober enough the next night...
    Yea and plenty of time to make a sober choice before heading out with MW to do the deed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Not to be a downer, but how can you possibly think that's cool? Getting someone that this (evidently) borderline retarded girl (who seems to, for some reason, actually like you) trusts to manipulate her into turning tricks?
    This what I mean by randomly choosing to believe that women are nitwits when its suits your belief system or choosing to believe they are equal/intelligent as capable as men when it suits the argument/belief-system you want to hold to.

    I would have said she is an adult and she is responsible for her choices. Not that she is a nitwit who was tricked into what to think by two men.

    She wasn't forced. She had time to think it over. She simply could have said no if no was what she wanted to choose. She had access to far more women in this establishment then men (one dj to many other, probably female, dancers who she could have talked to and gotten their opinions about what she should/shouldn't do if she had doubts about what was right for her).

    I started with the assumption that she is an adult, that she is probably about as an intelligent as anyone else, and she made her choice. Maybe not the choice you or I would have made, but MW made his choice, she thought about it for a while and made hers. For all we know at least a part of her was horny and wanted to to have sex with MW and and she wanted the money too, and so this way she got both. Maybe she doesn't see turning 'tricks' as that big of deal, at least not as compared with having sex (which she would do anyway) and receiving money (which she values/needs). Maybe she views the money as a perk.

    This is also a good example of using the 'social' argument when it's convienent. Afterall isn't it very much just a social attititude that its wrong to sell sex? The old George Carlson line. It's legal to give away sex. Its not illegal to sell stuff. So why is it illegal/wrong to sell something that people give away?

    I'd gamble if she had said suck fuck no MW you woud have assigned responsibility for her to choice to her. You would have assumed that it was her decision, and that her decision has nothing to with social influences or the influences of other people and what others believe about turning tricks, or having casual sex for money. But because she agreed, and it doesn't align with your beliefs about how she should have decided, you assigned responsibility for her choice to two other men and concluded she must clearly be retarded.
    Last edited by xdamage; 08-20-2005 at 11:30 AM.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Okay - I know I said I was going to let this be. But hey - I'm a filthy, vicious liar. Sue me. Actually - don't really. I suppose I could always go back, edit the post in which I typed that and then say "What? I never said that? What are you talking about?" But. I never said or implied that the sex was less than consensual. I never even really said that MW was wrong to pay her for sex. I just think that the things he has posted about the DJ are not cool. Buying a girl a few drinks on her birthday is nice. The way he described it was ramming them in her face. That implies.. not nice. That implies pressuring her when she is already past her limit and hence vulnerable (although it was very nice of him to hold her hair back as she puked). And there was the other lovely anecdote in which the DJ lied to a girl (unless MW is in fact a producer of pornography - which is possible, and which case I suppose I have no argument) so that she would let him shove his hands into her crotch. Again - it's obviously consensual, but just as obviously NOT COOL. It is not nice of him to violate the girl's trust like that.

    Mast - as to her hidden motives, seeking out approbation, or whatever - maybe. I don't even know this girl. Point remains the the DJ cannot control her hidden desires etc. - he can control his own actions, and he can't say that she was looking for approval to justify being a dick. If she wanted to go so bad, he could have just told her what he thought without agenda, and that would have been fine, yes? But MW made it very clear the the DJ was actively looking to convince the girl to fuck him. Which is weird, kind of homoerotic, and vaguely pimpy.

    X - what are you even talking about right now? This has nothing to do with generalized notions about women or prostitution - in this specific situation, the way it was described the girl (also based on past reports) clearly IS a nitwit and the DJ clearly thinks it is acceptable, desirable and neat to lie to girls and use whatever influence he has to get them to sexually gratify his friends. I don't think that's very nice. Like imagine that MW was in the club, and got really drunk and the girl is like "Score! I can take all this guy's money! Yay me!" - that is expected, maybe not the best karma, but no violation of trust. If MW was there with a friend (who obviously knew the stripper) and the friend was sort of like feeding him more drinks in order to help the dancer bilk him, and using whatever influence he had with the friend to convince him to empty his bank account - that would be. It's not nice.
    Last edited by Jenny; 08-20-2005 at 11:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner
    Exactly.

    Mindfucking is entirely underappreciated, but absolutely vital. It's a subtle transaction because the rush comes from violating limits that you've supposedly agreed to. It works because the 'deceit' is an implicit condition of both the offer and the acceptance. It's an art form.
    And we generally like to involve third parties in this?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member Moneywise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Like imagine that MW was in the club, and got really drunk and the girl is like "Score! I can take all this guy's money! Yay me!" - that is expected, maybe not the best karma, but no violation of trust. If MW was there with a friend (who obviously knew the stripper) and the friend was sort of like feeding him more drinks in order to help the dancer bilk him, and using whatever influence he had with the friend to convince him to empty his bank account - that would be. It's not nice.
    I would commend him for his persuasiveness if he was able to wrestle green from my pockets. IOW, I would never let myself get sloshed to the point where I was not in control (in a SC). I'm not crazy. Perhaps a little twisted at times but definitely not crazy.

    Let's make sure we're prefectly clear. All three of us like to drink. When I'm there the drinks flow although I moderate my drinks b/c I don't get fucked up. I was done doing that back when I was 22. We had told her a week prior to her bday that we were going to get her fucked up. She was like "alright..." So we made it happen. Everyone had fun. She puked, I carried her to the DR on my back because for a short stretch she could barely walk. (she asked, I obliged).

    Days which elapsed between her birthday and our play date: 5


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Jenny, you may have missed my point.

    I was not referring to MW's catch and release program, although I concur with the sense of the posters that this was ultimately a case of two consenting adults. And MW's dancer knows from shit, so I'm not all all worried about her.

    My post was about mental eroticism, which is vastly undervalued. It's about setting and releasing sexual tension. It's about triggers. It's why roleplaying can be so powerful; why BDSM can be so insanely erotic.

    Sporty's point is that as routine sets in, you have to keep pushing the limits. "Routine" implies a regular or recurring partner, no?

    Here we are back at two consenting adults.

  21. #21
    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Mast - as to her hidden motives, seeking out approbation, or whatever - maybe. I don't even know this girl. Point remains the the DJ cannot control her hidden desires etc. - he can control his own actions, and he can't say that she was looking for approval to justify being a dick. If she wanted to go so bad, he could have just told her what he thought without agenda, and that would have been fine, yes? But MW made it very clear the the DJ was actively looking to convince the girl to fuck him. Which is weird, kind of homoerotic, and vaguely pimpy.

    X - what are you even talking about right now? This has nothing to do with generalized notions about women or prostitution - in this specific situation,
    the way it was described the girl (also based on past reports) clearly IS a nitwit and the DJ clearly thinks it is acceptable, desirable and neat to lie to girls and use whatever influence he has to get them to sexually gratify his friends.
    I'm fine with the belief that the DJ is misusing his professional position (but then so was the dancer). You could argue that he should just spin records. You could argue she should just dance. Thats fine (although probably not very realistic), but anyway...

    The part I'm not fine with is implying that the the girl is a nitwit/retarded because her decisions don't jive with what you would do or think others should do. You passed her out a get-out-of-jail-free card in this matter, which you do a lot when it suits your beliefs. Maybe the DJ is retarded or has intelligence problems? Maybe MW is misguided or not entirely responsible for how he thinks because society has bombarded him with so much sexual imagery? Why maybe it's the dancers fault for contributing to these notions that made him think this way? The point is you assumed they are normal, rationale, responsible for how they think, and she assumed she is the one that incapable of making decisions, that her decisions are primarily the result of the influence of others.

    You do this a lot when it suits you to believe so. And if you were to credit her part with equal responsibility, or if you were to cut MW or the DJ some slack for behaving as they do in part because of thel influences of others, it would change the way you think about this particular situation. It seems rather convienent to me how you decide who is and isn't acting of their own free will, who is and isnt acting out of the influence of others.

    Because I assumed that she is not a nitwit, I saw the situation differently. It sounded to me like she participated in making it happen. Fine, she maybe needed some cheering on (dont we all look for morale support to back what we want to do but sometimes are too afraid to do? or its new and we arent sure if we should?) but I didnt get the sense that she is was tricked or outplayed or used or made to turn tricks against her will. And that all really is because I started with the assumption that she is about as normal and as intelligent as any other woman (or person).
    Last edited by xdamage; 08-20-2005 at 01:00 PM.

  22. #22
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage
    The part I'm not fine with is implying that the the girl is a nitwit/retarded because her decisions don't jive with what you would do or think others should do. You passed her out a get-out-of-jail-free card in this matter, which you do a lot when it suits your beliefs.
    A get out of jail free card from what? I don't even understand right now what you are referring to. Or to what you are referring. I'm not talking about influence of society - I'm talking about influence of the DJ. If the DJ has been influenced that was left out of the story. As for why I think the girl is a nitwit - have you not read what MW has posted about her? She is clearly barely functioning.

    Maybe the DJ is retarded or has intelligence problems?
    Again - if he is, it was definitely left out of the story.

    Maybe MW is misguided or not entirely responsible for how he things because society has bombarded him with so much sexual imagery?
    Again - I'm not talking about general social influence, but the influence of one specific person. Surely even you must see the difference? And so far as I can see, MW paid a girl for sex - outside of having kind of gross associations, I don't see what he is particularly responsible for.

    But you assumed they are normal, rationale, and that she is the one that incapable of making decisions, that her decisions are primarily the result of the influence of others.
    No I didn't. I assumed that, based on the story that Moneywise told, that the DJ is trying to pimp the girls in his club out. I think that's gross.

    You do this a lot when it suits you to believe so.
    I assume that only Moneywise and his DJ friends are the only rational people in a given situation? Wow, that really does have a pretty serious impact on the world. I've got to stop doing that.

    And if you were to credit her part with equal responsibility, or if you were to cut MW or the DJ some slack for behaving as they do in part because of social influences, it would change the way you think about this particular situation. It seems rather random to me how you decide who is and isn't acting of their own free will, who is and isnt acting out of the influence of others.
    So you're saying right now that when people use their personal influence on others (as friends, colleagues, bosses, etc) to attempt to manipulate them into gratifying others, that we shouldn't hold them responsible for that because of social influences? I'm not seeing how this fits in with your general ideology. I think I already provided an example in which a man would be unfairly influenced by an individual in which he had reason to feel some trust. And again - nothing to do with social influences, and everything to do with a specific person manipulating a situation to ensure (note I said "ensure" not "orchestrate") that his friend is sexually gratified. I think we clearly understand that neither the DJ nor MW are really concerned with this girl's state, feelings or future - for MW, fine - he's a customer, that can be expected. She clearly approached the DJ for advice on HER behalf, not MW's, and he didn't say - Look Honey, I think MW really deserves some cheap sexual gratification from you, so just do it already" thus making his agenda clear. He told her that she was "special"(???) and certainly allowed her to believe that he was considering her point of view, not MW.

    Because I assumed that she is not a nitwit, I saw the situation differently. It sounded to me like she participated in making it happen.
    Of course she participated in making it happen. That was never under argument.

    Fine, she maybe needed some cheering on (dont we all look for morale support to back what we want to do?) but I didnt get the sense that she is was tricked or outplayed or used or made to turn tricks against her will. And that all really is because I started with the assumption that she is about as normal and as intelligent as any other woman (or person).
    Or maybe it is because you start out, not with a clean sense of what is going on, but with an active agenda? I never said she was forced to turn tricks against her will (again, a very male oriented way of forming and controlling conversation - make up a position, attribute it me and demand that I defend it. Note that I exercise my "responsibility" by not falling into it, but calling you on it). I said that the DJ (based on this and other stories) is behaving really grossly inappropriately with the dancers, and using and manipulating them into sexually gratifying his friends (I must stress again, that if the girl really wanted to go (which she may likely have) she would not need the DJ and his "Let's get MW as much cheap pussy as possible" agenda to get her there). If you agree with that (which was, incidentally, the length and breadth of my contention) why are you arguing with me?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  23. #23
    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    I never said she was forced to turn tricks against her will (again, a very male oriented way of forming and controlling conversation - make up a position, attribute it me and demand that I defend it. Note that I exercise my "responsibility" by not falling into it, but calling you on it).
    Here is your quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Getting someone that this (evidently) borderline retarded girl (who seems to, for some reason, actually like you) trusts to manipulate her into turning tricks?
    Short version - she is retarded, and she was manipulated into turning tricks.

    I read, she is not really responsible for her part in the matter, and that she did what she did because she was manipulated to turn tricks, not because she weighed all of the info she had and chose to.
    Last edited by xdamage; 08-20-2005 at 01:28 PM.

  24. #24
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    I would commend him for his persuasiveness if he was able to wrestle green from my pockets. IOW, I would never let myself get sloshed to the point where I was not in control (in a SC). I'm not crazy. Perhaps a little twisted at times but definitely not crazy.
    Well, good. I wish I could say that. Let's look at it sheerly hypothetically then. Surely the nameless man with the friend can viably expect his friend to, if not look after his interest, at least not actively use his knowledge of the friend and his influence to ensure that he walking out broke? As for not being surprised in strip clubs - again things that customers and dancer do to each other are somewhat expected (within certain limits - I still find it totally unacceptable and surprising when one does not adhere to financial agreement). I would still be a little shocked if the bartender, who was a friend of mine (because I haven't had friends at work since I left Guam, and even there I think it was mostly a mistake) was using his influence to get me to sexually gratify one of his friends.

    Let's make sure we're prefectly clear. All three of us like to drink. When I'm there the drinks flow ...We had told her a week prior to her bday that we were going to get her fucked up. She was like "alright..." So we made it happen. Everyone had fun. ...Days which elapsed between her birthday and our play date: 5
    Okay. But A) you clearly implied a connection between her getting drunk on her birthday and her fucking you later on (even though, yes, I did understand it wasn't the same day) because you started with it all started... And if you review your language, you didn't say "the three of us had a few/several/many/way too much to drink" - you said that you and P got her so sloshed and it was so great, immediately following it with your statement that the DJ booth is where all the unbelievable action happens (and the nice story about the DJ just lying to a dancer so you could finger her is still fresh). It seems like you pretty much meant to imply that you are P were acting on her and pressuring her as opposed to the lot of you getting sloshed together. It is was simply inserted for good story telling - well, obviously in the context it doesn't seem like a very nice story. To me. You guys can get off on whatever you want. As long as it's legal. Which this clearly was. Well, depending where you are, when you think about it. But that wasn't the illegality I was really talking about, anyway.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  25. #25
    God/dess Mastridonicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    You are absolutely right. I’m still fairly new to certain nuances. I stand corrected when I called it 3 large. It surely was 3 small. I would never pay 3 large for something I can obtain with one call to a friend which also happens to be a single mom that likes to hear from me after midnight.
    I think one day I would like to pay the kind of person for sex 3 large, just to say I had sex worth 3 grande. Lets be real, if its so good she can charge 3k for it, its not ever coming to me for free




    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    This mast is a pretty intelligent individual.
    No Taksies Backsies
    Welcome to my sig, yo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    Lastly, the sex was between two consensual adults. Forget the benjamins or the conversations leading up to it which I decided to share here. At the core it was simply that. (Sex between two consenting adults)
    Bro, I doubt she's complaining.

    #---Out of Place Quote---#
    Quote Originally Posted by Moneywise
    We actually all know each other. We laugh and joke around in the booth every time I visit when she’s there. I only visit when he’s around nowadays.
    See thats the key there. Granted I don't feel you NEEDED to say this in the story, but thats EXACTLY what I assumed. I'm sure you two where going to play 'Just the Tip' long before the DJ opened his bonghole.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Mast - as to her hidden motives, seeking out approbation, or whatever - maybe. I don't even know this girl. Point remains the the DJ cannot control her hidden desires etc. - he can control his own actions, and he can't say that she was looking for approval to justify being a dick. If she wanted to go so bad, he could have just told her what he thought without agenda, and that would have been fine, yes? But MW made it very clear the the DJ was actively looking to convince the girl to fuck him. Which is weird, kind of homoerotic, and vaguely pimpy.
    Jenny, you maybe right, I feel like its splitting hairs, ONLY because I KNOW it happens that way, and I doubt that this girl met MW for the first time the evening in question, or hell, even in the last two weeks, and was asking the DJ about him because she was curiously looking for an unbiased opinion and the DJ knew that she didn't know the DJ and moneywise where friends so he played field for MW in hopes MW would have a good story for him on Day 2.

    For all we really know, from this post anyway, the DJ and Dancer could have been best friends for years. Its speculation, tho I agree if it happened how you say, Bad. Thank god she's not hurt. However, I HIGHLY doubt it went anything like that. The DJ may have done something you disagree with, but I'd bet FBR's warchest that the Dancer knew he was going to work out this way even if she never talked to the dj. Hell, I'd raise you my first born child that she only talked to him for 2 reasons, 1 so he knew she was doing it, and 2 if it was bad sex, to blabber about it and kinda coyishly blame him.

    But really, I don't know the first thing about dancers, dancing, or screwing dancers...I'm too green. You may be right, but I'd be lying if I said 'I'm sure that this situation would never happen'

    Blah blah blah...

    Its just splitting hairs, I don't know the situation outside the post, but I definatly understand your p.o.v., but I'm sure she was happy to be the active participant, before during and after the DJ involvement.

    ::Mast::

    Oh p.s.

    Mindfucking. Awesome. Kinky as a freshly scented vagina! I love the 'crossing borders' context. The best is when you've defined the borders before <like days/week> before the incident had potential to come up.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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