Post it wherever you want, Dawg. You know it's gonna end up as MW's HG2 OTC.Originally Posted by Moneywise
![]()





Post it wherever you want, Dawg. You know it's gonna end up as MW's HG2 OTC.Originally Posted by Moneywise
![]()
Hmmm...then I probably shouldn't mention that I've gone "semi-active" in Austin again recently and have been to P10 twice in the last three weeks...once on a Sunday night in mid-August and again last Monday afternoon. Both times I started my "adventures" (or actually non-adventures) at Joy, but got bored and went across the highway to see if anything was better over there. Still haven't really spent any money though even with running into a friend at P10 who introduced me to a couple of his gals (after having received a BJ from one of them)...just not my type these days...Originally Posted by Katrine
....hot damn would I do just about anything for a blue-eyed raven-haired beauty right about now.![]()
But I digress, and this thread has already been split out once...![]()
I'm a simple man, making my way through the universe.




Oh stop with the Messiah complex. Miss J was no Mary Magdalene. For that matter, Mary Magdalene was probably no Mary Magdalene in the Miss J sense.Originally Posted by Moneywise
-Ev




I see two counterpoints to this. First, even if taken at face value, that element would apply equally to the customer experience. Less risk, less ick factor on purchasing a known vs. unknown. So that element should be, at most, a wash as a factor for price.Originally Posted by Rath
I'd go so far as to argue that it should increase the price because it should only be applied to the consumer experience. Seems to me your observation mixes up the service provider and consumer sides. If there's an ick/risk factor that's too high, the girl simply won't sell. The fact that she chooses to sell is the indicator that the ick/risk factor is within her tolerance levels. The provider shouldn't be offering a discount for consumer sex appeal. That may, in fact, be what's happening, but I'm saying this is flawed as a business model. A-1 Tires isn't going to offer me a discount on tire mounting because I look especially hot that day. (Don't think I haven't tried.) They either sell to me because they know they'll get paid, or don't sell because my check or credit is no good. They don't set prices by rating customers.
First, the services the customer paid for previously were received as billed. The custy apparently thought they were worth what he paid for them at the time. Second, the amount of investment a customer made previously indicates to me how desirable the target is, which should raise the price, not lower it. It's like being on a waiting list for a hybrid vehicle. You don't pay less because you have to wait. The wait is a byproduct of demand being greater than supply.Originally Posted by Rath
Surprisingly, I think you have a point here in terms of describing behavior patterns. I'd extend that point to say most prostitutes are strict businesswomen. Strippers selling sex at a discount are not. Lucky for you guys.Originally Posted by Rath
Well, that's a different thread entirely. Characterizing my interpersonal communications as a bit unfair would be the understatement of the year.Originally Posted by Rath
![]()
-Ev
Agreed completely.Originally Posted by yoda57us
Could be. I think customers at least can justify if they pay less that makes them less of a loser. Its possible the inverse thinking works for some too (If I accept less I'm less of a prostitute type of think).Originally Posted by yoda57us
Indeed, and yet many girls don't think of themselves as prostitutes but do engage in some types of sexual acts for money. Likewise many customers don't think of themselves as Johns because they get off with their clothes on (while getting a LD) or only get a HJ in a club. Exactly what is and isn't sex under that definition above is a big sliding scale, and both customers and providers draw their lines as they will.Originally Posted by yoda57us
Of course legal definitions are only interesting to lawyers and law enforcement. Real people draw their lines about what is and isn't prostitution, what is/isn't loser behavior using a lot of emotional criteria that doesn't necessarily make sense.
As an example of human behavior where sex is involved, Bill Clinton allowed things to only go so far with Monica Lewinsky and later after having been caught he played word games (re what is sex?) for as long as he could until he was forced to face and admit the facts. Not that such things dont happen all the time, but what's most interesting though is how someone very intelligent can go through very complex personal emotional decisions about how far they let cheating go without crossing a line that they define as "cheating for real" vs just dabbling in cheating. Such is the nature of humans and how they can self justify behavior that a part of them feels uncomfortable with (?maybe with the exception of the BPD types who tend to have simple all or nothing type of think?).
Last edited by xdamage; 09-06-2005 at 01:38 PM.
Prostitutes don't necessarily start out as strict businesswomen, just like extra girls often don't start out that way, just like customers often don't start looking for extras or prostitutes. While life would be simple if we could divide everyone into simple bins, but people tend to weigh these things on their own rulers. The longer they engage in a behavior, the more desensitized and neutral/objective they tend to become. But for anyone that's used a prostitute, or an extras girl, or even a high contact stripper, there may well have been a time that was someone who wasnt so business like, and there was someone, or someones in their past that contributed slowly but surely to their desensitization. Those taking advantage of the strict business woman prostitute today are often benefiting because of someone or someones earlier who contributed to their de-sensitization back when they weren't so emotionless about it. And even the strict business man/woman may still have some deep seated (but well buried) not so business like emotions about their customers and/or him/herself.Originally Posted by evan_essence
I don't have any real problem with people that acknowledge conflicts of interest because it's normal. When I go to a stripper I don't care how much of a business woman she behaves as, no matter how much she appears to be enjoying it, I assume that at least some part of her loathes me touching her. Likewise any prostitute that has her head screwed on straight probably should realize that most Johns would rather be getting it for free and aren't happy about the fact that they are paying for it. Like I said, I don't really have any problems with these conflicts of interest. It's the people who keep trying to paint themselves as not having any conflicts that I wonder I about. Nobody lies to us as well as we do to ourselves.
Last edited by xdamage; 09-06-2005 at 01:46 PM.





I agree. I think a huge amount of the rationalization on both sides is strictly self-motivated and I don't see a problem with that. Pure denial is another story however. I think, on some level, both buyers and sellers have to be honest with themselves about what they are involved in and why. It's not so much what others may think of you, it's what you see when you look in the mirror that counts.Originally Posted by xdamage
Exactly.Originally Posted by yoda57us
"I stand 6’3” tall and weight about 265."
Lose some weight you fat f***. Just kidding, but seriously, your fans (including me) would hate to have you suffering 10 years from now with adult onset diabetes or sleep apnea because of weight. Okay, time for me to mind my own f***** business.





you're absolutely correct. it was unfair of me to make such a comparison. so, i would like to extend a sincere and heartfelt apology to all weasels across the globe for any insult on my part. in the future, i think i'll use lawyers the next time i make such a comparison. i don't think anyone would have a problem with that not even Rath.Originally Posted by Jenny
LOL...oh, i would guess she's about as delusional and stupid as the average PL. there are quite a number of posts along similar lines down here, upstairs or just read Gendai73 posts for the cliff's notes version...LOL. for example, in order to create a false sense of intimacy. sex workers sometimes tell their customers their "real name" or that he's "special" or even the rare "i love you" (which is creepy, BTW). anyway, one would think that such a obviously transparent tactic would set off some kind of alarm in the PL head. yet, some customers do believe it when they hear it. my point is that if cognitive dissonance qualified as a mental disorder or a sign of low intelligence. all of us would be in the loony bin or riding the short bus. BTW, notwithstanding your saliva phobia. i don't think have the ovaries to do it.Originally Posted by Jenny
exactly, MW isn't complete stranger to this stripper. an escort might not have a problem fucking a 400 lb guy she finds physically repulsive. OTOH, it's most likely that a stripper won't even consider the idea no matter how much you paid her. how many times have we heard women in general say, "i have to like the guy in order to sleep with him.". well, strippers are no different. there has to be something there that makes her willing to make that leap other than just money. OTOH, escorts don't make that distinction. money is usually the main and only consideration for escorts.Originally Posted by Rath
while i understand your issue about price undercutting. frankly, even if you removed the issue of extras from the equation. strippers still wouldn't be consistent in terms of quality. customers are always going to pick dancers for a myriad of reasons and strippers will just find some other reason to fight with another stripper who she thinks is cutting into her money.Originally Posted by evan_essence
with respect to comment (A). well, it's no state secret around here that strippers are flaky and have poor work ethics and regarding comment (B). no customer or stripper can be a savvy neogotiator if they don't know the marketplace. the escort biz isn't the same marketplace as the stripping biz. you said it yourself when you stated:Originally Posted by jenny
there is a lot more fluidity in the latter when compared to the former. if you think strippers should get market value instead of taking a less than fair offer. you should also keep in mind that a customer can just as easily get gouged by a stripper. so, the idea that a stripper will only seek to get market value as opposed to hustling a customer in blowing the POP index all to hell is absurd. on the flip side, the idea that a customer is obligated to pay a stripper market value as opposed to getting the best deal for himself is equally absurd. as you pointed out, unlike the escort biz, negotiation is part of the process in a sc. it's mostly due to the fact that customers try to get as much as they can for a dollar and strippers try to hustle the customer for as much as possible. the thing is that it really doesn't have to reach that pitch. but hey, never underestimate the greed of your fellow man or woman.Originally Posted by Jenny
what do you expect from a bunch of amateurs? escorts aren't less flaky or smarter than strippers. however, they know their marketplace better than the average flaky stripper know hers.Originally Posted by evan_essence
Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat
Alan Marciano: Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".
Um. Okay.... thank you? I don't know that I can accept an apology on behalf of weasels though.Originally Posted by mr_punk
Maybe slightly more so.LOL...oh, i would guess she's about as delusional and stupid as the average PL.
Okay this is not in my experience. I don't keep regulars - I assume it's either because I get tiresome and less charming as you get to know me, and then I'm just boring, or I give it all up too fast, and then I'm just boring (my last regular, who was a very weird guy, kept coming back to me for the sole reason that I was one of the few dancers that didn't care if he masturbated in the booth (through his pants - I told him I didn't want to see anything). I agree that it is creepy and weird; I further agree that the guys are stupid. However - a guy accepting a compliment at face value, even if it is baldly manipulative is still lacking the level of willful delusion that we are theorizing about here.for example, in order to create a false sense of intimacy. sex workers sometimes tell their customers their "real name" or that he's "special" or even the rare "i love you" (which is creepy, BTW). anyway, one would think that such a obviously transparent tactic would set off some kind of alarm in the PL head. yet, some customers do believe it when they hear it.
Okay - there is cognitave dissonance and Cognitave Dissonance - okay, now I'm kidding. Seriously man - you cannot possibly think (and I really do seriously think this is impossible) that a girl who is prostituting herself for cheap, rationalizing that she is only half a prostitute for taking half the money can be viably compared to someone who is like "I don't like cheese. I like Blue Cheese, but that is different."my point is that if cognitive dissonance qualified as a mental disorder or a sign of low intelligence. all of us would be in the loony bin or riding the short bus.
What is this, like a dare? Do you half expect me to say "I'll show you who has ovaries" and run out and have cut rate sex? 'Cause, although I am thinking about it, I'm totally not gonna.BTW, notwithstanding your saliva phobia. i don't think have the ovaries to do it,
I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth
Getting someone to admit to thinking about it is half the battle (maybe more than half). As a casual reader of the ongoing Mr_P/Jenny verbal intercourse, it seems that the Punkster picked up some points by default based on Jenny's admisson. I still think that some day they will kiss, make up and produce a movie which will be offered for sale at a special discounted price to us JunkiesOriginally Posted by Jenny
![]()
FBR
Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.




This prospective movie has bestseller written all over it.Originally Posted by FBR
I've lost track of this thread. I'm going to go have a drink and plan my trip to Vegas in December.
Last edited by xdamage; 09-09-2005 at 07:29 PM.





GFE false intimacy is the next wave. Strip clubs are the loony bins of the new millenium, and SUVs are the short buses.Originally Posted by mr_punk




Excellent advice from a group that prides itself in its low risk exchange of bodily fluids.Originally Posted by KC Joe
-Ev
Evan: lol.
I hate women lately and havn't been able to get into the club to remove my drama filled cesspool of a life, so MW's extremes are reminder that mini-frazier has some nicer mornings to look forward too.
::Mast::
People are not ruled by their memories.





you can't..the apology is strictly for the weasels. i really felt bad insulting them by comparing them to strippers and DJs.Originally Posted by Jenny
really? why? anyway, i think it's about the same. in any case, i don't think they're necessarily delusional and stupid. i was being sarcastic. my point was to show that strippers are prone to the same follies as customer.Originally Posted by Jenny
well, every stripper simply can't or doesn't wish to keep regulars. perhaps they lack the temperament or patience to nuture the more needy and clingy PLs or perhaps they lack experience, the game or a certain moral base to keep regulars. for example, since you have this saliva phobia. i doubt you go around kissing customers. BTW, that's another way to create a false sense of intimacy.Originally Posted by Jenny
why isn't the level of "willful delusion" the same? i mean, if a stripper kisses a customer and tells him that he's special. he believes her and yet all of the evidence that's staring him in the face (no HG, no phone number, etc) beyond that moment indicates otherwise. wouldn't you think it strange that he continues to splooge cash based solely on that moment? hell, a stripper doesn't even have to put forth that much effort. i'm sure you didn't do much of anything to cause that chump drive a million miles to see you, splooge cash and take you shopping. in the end, strippers don't play customers. customers play themselves. conversely, strippers can play themselves when it comes to customers.Originally Posted by Jenny
in the case of MW's stripper. why not? if a customer can play himself by splooging more cash. why can't a stripper play herself by taking less cash? people are a lot more nuanced than you think. why do you think she should somehow think more like prostitute rather than any other stripper who would be insulted being thought of as a prostitute? a stripper who is indifferent to a customer might not be insulted by the thought. OTOH, a stripper who "likes" a customer might be insulted by the thought. furthermore, if she considered herself a prostitute. MW wouldn't have had to perform even a fraction of the apple-polishing that he had to perform with this stripper. a prostitute doesn't need that type of hand-holding. OTOH, this stripper did need that type of hand-holding.Originally Posted by Jenny
no, it's not a dare. let's just say that it's an intuition, a hunch, a feeling that you're talking out of your ass about what you would do if you didn't have this phobia. of course, i could be wrong, but i just think that grinding on some stranger's cock in a sc is completely different level than freeing some stranger's willy in a sc. so, unless you gave it up to mr. doggie coat shopper, feel free to charge as much as you like. i just don't think you can do it in the first place.Originally Posted by Jenny
Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat
Alan Marciano: Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".




Wha..wha...what?? Bu.. bu.. but if there's that much of a difference, that means we can draw a distinction between the two. And if we can draw a distinction, we can say freeing willy is inappropriate in places not designated for it. And if we can say that, well, stripper complaints about extras have some validity.Originally Posted by mr_punk
Are you feverish? Let me feel your head. Not that head.
-Ev



I think this is the nub of it. (Especially the part I bolded.)Originally Posted by mr_punk
I've often thought that the reason Jenny seems so uncomprehending of the behavior and motivations of strippers like the ones we're discussing is that Jenny (for better or worse) (OK, for better) can't even conceive of "liking" a customer. (Ev, too, for that matter.)
Nah, they just like to argue.Originally Posted by Rath
![]()
I'm a simple man, making my way through the universe.
Well. Yes, I do like to argue. And Rath - really. Have you ever read my posts? I have liked my customers. I like a lot of my customers. In fact, those customers I've really disliked - well, I don't tend to have them as customers. They don't like me either. How much can you really like girl who spends most of her time with you with one eyebrow at hairline height, leaning back, saying "What are you doing?" The only guys who are willing to put up with me are the ones I like, at least a little. I've dated customers. For free.
I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth



OK. Sorry, then.
I think you may be my new best friend.Originally Posted by Jenny
Yeah, the "for free" sometimes makes all the difference, doesn't it?
I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth
Bookmarks