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Thread: Check out this Katrina Scoop

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    Default Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Go to http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/kat...gin/index.html to read about and hear the radio interview Mayor Nagin of New Orleans gave on 9/2 about not being able to get the help he requested.

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    Newbie Anonymous_Strippa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Wow, my respects to him. He has allot of balls to say that about what is happening. I hope it doesn’t negatively affect his career (probably will). He sounds like a big hearted man.( and he’s kinda cute, not that it matters)

    N.O should be very proud to have him on their back.

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    God/dess Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    If I'm not mistaken Nagin was the mayor who also cleaned up a lot of the corruption in the city a few years ago but I could be wrong since I haven't lived there for two years. I just recall a lot of the things like the brake tag station and other city offices were investigated and got in trouble for taking bribes.

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    He's been in office since 2002.

    Yeah, that sure puts a different spin on some things. I noticed that all through Bush's speech a couple days ago, they kept showing footage of trucks, helicopters and people swooping in to help. Obviously trying to make it look like the fed is making this huge effort when one can tell by watching the news that's just not happening. I knew that speech/footage was bullshit before reading this article/interview. This just drives it home. Wtf are they doing???

    We can mobilize and send all kinds of help asap to fucking THAILAND after a tsunami but we can't get people and equipment moving in a timely manner to help our own damn citizens after a HUGE disaster??? Yeah, helping poor countries makes us look good internationally, but how do we look when we leave thousands of our own citizens helplessly swimming in shit for DAYS????

    Someone was quoted as saying you can't fly helicopters or drive trucks in a hurricane - the hurricane was MONDAY. This is SATURDAY (well, Sunday morning now). Where the hell have they been? There is just not enough being done. It's fucking ridiculous. Like I said in another thread, if this were New York for example we would've been pulling troops and resources out of fucking Iraq to deal with this. But because it's New Orleans they drag ass, leaving people to die and a whole city to literally drown and rot in a lakefull of shit.



    I can hardly stand to watch the news anymore. This whole thing just makes me sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Veteran Member Yea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Thank god he stepped up .. this man is for real. I'd vote for him.


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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    I read on another message board that there is some law on the books in the US that the feds have to wait 72 hours for state government to take care of things before they can help. Any truth to that?

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    I'm sure those people left swimming in shit for almost a week really care if there's a law requiring a 72hr wait for federal help. Further, if there IS such a law, why haven't we heard about it in the news? I'm thinking if I were Bush, I'd be pointing at that law as my excuse for not helping sooner, if that law exists...

    I can't believe there is such a law, and if so, could martial law not have been declared in order to help those people sooner? Please. Sometimes human life has to take precedence over fucking stupid laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    I can't believe there is such a law, and if so, could martial law not have been declared in order to help those people sooner? Please. Sometimes human life has to take precedence over fucking stupid laws.
    It's been the law for a long, long time. You can't usurp the autonomy of states and declare martial law without authorization from the governor of that state. That's the law, that's our Constitution. It's a good thing.

    This is also why the Federal response was slow--the Federal government requested authorization to command Louisiana's ANG units and to coordinate the evacuation of NOLA last Friday. They were refused by Governor Blanco.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Any politician with the guts to tell it like it is --- first is exceedingly RARE , second gets my vote.

    I am soooooooooooooooo tired of being humored that I'm ready to spit at someone.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    .... You can't usurp the autonomy of states and declare martial law without authorization from the governor of that state. That's the law, that's our Constitution....

    This is also why the Federal response was slow--the Federal government requested authorization to command Louisiana's ANG units and to coordinate the evacuation of NOLA last Friday. They were refused by Governor Blanco.
    I'm also tired of apologists who say they can't save anyone's life because we have a system of rules to follow. Those rules were never designed for an huge emergency like this or 9-11 or the 'big one' for Los Angeles thru San Francisco.

    I can imagine an emergency road situation where I need to violate the rules just to avoid a deadly accident. Boating rules of the road specify that avoiding an accident is priority number one over all other rules. (I suppose that is because there is less monitoring than for roads.)

    In an emergency especially, it's easier to apologize than to ask permission.

    I'm finding it more and more profitable to sell red tape. Watch for it soon on ebay!!!
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    If the city and state had just followed their own disaster manual, the human suffering could have been greatly reduced.

    There was an advance plan for hurricane.


    The plan comtemplated that the levees might burst and flood the city with 20 feet of water; that public transportation and school buses would be need to evacuate those without cars; and that those left behind would need to food and water. They didn't follow their own plan. Furthermore, the governor herself stated that the only reason she ordered an evacuation is that GWB called and asked her too.

    Most of the blame rests on the leaders of LA and NO, especially the histrionic mayor. This would not have happened if Rudy Guliani was mayor of New Orleans.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    ^^ This is what I keep saying....this whole fiasco has been nothing but "It's the FEDS fault" jammed down our throats on the news. Someone needs to look at LOCAL gov't. and see what went wrong there too. No one is innocent here, local or federal. The shift of focus away from the Govenor and Mayor is unreal.

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Everyone on SW will never agree on the blame here as we all are different.

    It is only common sense to know that anyone who is commander of a city ship or what have you in which a disaster occurs will do all they can to save lives, isn't it? This disaster was over the head of any city, and who cares about protocol.If I call you and say my city of hundreds of thousands of people is flooded with water up to the rooftops, and I need thousands of troops, transport vehicles, and food and water NOW, within a few hours my requests should be met, right?



    Casual Observer, you are a staunch conservative and will never find fault with the Bush Administration, nor will you support socialist endeavors by the government.

    I am a liberal person and am more concerned about the welfare of the average person.

    The Bush administration was always an accident waiting to happen, and it's personal agendas overshadow things that suit the common good.

    Lots of people who should have known better, are seeing this administrations true colors now.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    If I call you and say my city of hundreds of thousands of people is flooded with water up to the rooftops, and I need thousands of troops, transport vehicles, and food and water NOW, within a few hours my requests should be met, right?
    If that's all true, then why did Nagin and Blanco refuse initial Federal attempts to evacuate NOLA? Why did they hesitate to enact martial law and Federalize their own ANG units?

    Casual Observer, you are a staunch conservative and will never find fault with the Bush Administration, nor will you support socialist endeavors by the government.
    Calling it like I see it doesn't make me a conservative (which I'm absolutely not) and if you've actually read any of my posts, you'd quickly see I'm no member of the GWB sycophancy fan club--quite the contrary. You're on the money about my total aversion to socialist initiatives, though.

    Nagin and Blanco screwed the pooch big time. That's a fact. The Federal government has specific, legal protocol it must follow to commandeer evacuation and disaster relief coordination from governors. That's also a fact. The law is the law.

    As I said in another thread, there are plenty of reasons for anyone anywhere on the political spectrum to be upset with GWB's administration--from the national fiscal bankruptcy taking place to abdication of national security, border control and immigration to the piss poor execution of of the Iraq war. If you want to hate GWB for the slow relief effort, that's fine too; you can join the legions of ignorant Americans that will lay the slow relief response at his feet while giving Nagin and Blanco a pass out of pity and blind anger. The fact that you're in the wrong in the eyes of the law, of the Constitution and of the fundamental issue of American Federalism surely won't bother you or anyone else in the least. You're in common company.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    That didn't happen.
    Really? Explain why FEMA assets weren't used to evacuate NOLA before the storm, after being officially rebuffed by Blanco (legally--within her rights and powers as governor; not an issue of malice involved here). Then explain why LA ANG units (controlled by Blanco) weren't released to FEMA until Thursday. Explain why Nagin refused to enforce anti-looting efforts via martial law for three days after the storm. Not only did all these things happen, no one is paying attention. Fact of the matter is, disaster relief and responsibility under the Constitutional system belongs to the states and local municipalities first.

    Just because you don't like reality, doesn't make it not reality.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    That is total, 100% bullshit.
    Do you ever offer anything meaningful in rebuttal? What is bullshit is the way you respond to ideas you don't agree with by calling people names. I'm not looking it up for you. Learn to google yourself. The Gov. was quoted before the hurricane as saying that Pres. Bush had called her and urged her to evacuate. The LA hurricane manual is online. Look it up. The evacuation order was supposed to given 30 hours prior to landfall, it was not. On Page 29 of the state's manual:
    Unlike a shelter, there may be little or no water or food and possibly no utilities. A Last Resort Refuge is intended to provide best available survival protection for the duration of the hurricane only.
    The reason those people sat in the Superdome with no food, no water, no sanitation, is not because they are black, not because GWB doesn't care, but because their own state government never intended to provide them with that stuff. Furthermore, last spring, the Mayor of New Orleans taped a public service commercial in which he stated that if you stay behind during a hurricane you are on you own.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Dude, no one has to make up anything about the reality of the situation--there's loads of press out there.

    Nagin waiting for some magical cue to enact martial law.

    Blanco rejected FEMA conducting the evacuation last Friday--before the storm hit--for political considerations.

    Not that I expect you to discuss anything; empty one-liner platitudes and ad hominem attacks seem to be more your forte.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer

    Neither of those sentences appear in the articles you've linked to; you are not accurately characterizing what they say; your misrepresentations will be obvious to anyone who takes the time to read the articles for themselves. The actual title of the first article is

    "Nagin declares Martial Law to crack down on looters"

    The actual title of the second article is:

    "Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials "(original Washington Post version)

    I also note that you point to the msnbc version of the Washington Post article that does not include the correction noted above.

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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    That is total, 100% bullshit.
    Hmmm...yes, that is a great rebuttal argument. I'm amazed at your level of debate.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    ^^ well when people say things that aren't true, there's not much you can do but call them on it. If I make a bullshit assertion -- let's say I assert that the moon is made of green cheese -- the burden is on me to support my assertion with evidence, not upon you to 'prove that the moon is not made of green cheese'.

    In this case, the assertion that I was calling bullshit on was:

    This would not have happened if Rudy Guliani was mayor of New Orleans.
    I'd like to see that assertion backed up with some evidence...

    Now I've been 'warned' for using the word 'bullshit'.

    Well it smells the same no matter what you call it.
    Last edited by dlabtot; 09-06-2005 at 08:31 PM.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check out this Katrina Scoop

    Governor Blanco requested immediate assistance from the Federal government on August 28. Here is the letter: http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20...%20Request.pdf

    The White House lied when they told the WaPo that she did not do so. And right wingers have been repeating it ever since.

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