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Thread: Industry Standerds

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    God/dess krchab99's Avatar
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    Exclamation Industry Standerds

    Okay I noticed a topic that seems to need to be addressed on this site. Industry stanards. I know that dancers come in all shapes and sizes and I think thats great. But at what point do dancers have to accept the industry standards and not expect the clubs to lower there standards to fit there needs. When i chose to become a dancer I worked real hard to conform to what a stripper should be I did not expect the clubs to lower themselves to make it easier for me. issues like wieght and hygine effect what clubs you can into hands down a club should not be conserided snobby or rude for givin a dancer a no that dancer should take it as a challenge to get hired there and put it on herself. I mean if you wanted to be a dr but you did not finish medical school should you be hired in a hospital anyway? I am not saying that there is not a market for non comformist strippers I am simply saying non comformist strippers can not expect the same treatment as girls who have worked real hard to achive there goals. I am sorry for saying this but i feel it needs to be addressed.

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    God/dess PleasureVictim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    You have a point, but it's the club owners or managers who decide when and how much to bend the club rules. If a 200lb woman goes to a club to get hired and she does, is she really to blame?

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    Member dj mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I agree. While we may have in our heads the standard that should be acceptable it is the owners who are desperate enough for the girls or their floor fees to allow them to work in the first place. It drives me nut that they often allow larger girls to work and pay extra not to go on stage. My thought is: if you don't go on stage then you aren't an exotic dancer.





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    God/dess krchab99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    pv, no i am more talking about girls who don't fit the clubs standards and get upset when upset with the club whem they don't get hired.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I'm biting my lip over the notion or 'standards' actually existing any more in today's exotic dancing industry. I agree that there is an appearance that some arbitrary 'standard' exists in regard to upscale 'show club' dancers. However, as shown when Scores East opened a new club Scores West, those 'standards' are negotiable. Bottom line is that there are no absolute 'standards' anymore, and that 'corporate' club managers will now hire girls based on doing whatever is necessary to generate the most profit for the club. This may take the form of lowering physical appearance standards to fill the club with X number of girls, where the major criteria is the girl's willingness to pay a high stage fee. This may also take the form of hiring higher contact girls versus other girls with a better physical appearance but who are not willing to provide high levels of contact, where the major criteria is the girl's ability to sell private dances/VIP/champagne room trips from which the club collects a hefty cut.

    The flip side of the lack of actual 'standards' is that an independent clubowner/manager may decide to reject a potential new dancer for just about any reason. For example I know of one clubowner who exclusively hires waify blondes with implants, turning away absolutely gorgeous girls who don't meet his personal preference in regard to height, hair color and cup size. I also know of another clubowner who will turn away any girl who exhibits too much, shall we say, 'strength of personality' - because he prefers to rule his club with an iron fist and doesn't want girls who will 'speak up' regarding his latest stupid idea/rule. There are even a few clubowners/managers whose 'standards' for hiring new dancers is based on the girl's 'talents' during a private personal audition !
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-09-2005 at 10:12 AM.

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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    What Melonie said.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

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    Member LionHeart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I think that there no one standard for beauty and that variety is truely the spice of life.

  8. #8
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by dj mike
    I agree. While we may have in our heads the standard that should be acceptable it is the owners who are desperate enough for the girls or their floor fees to allow them to work in the first place. It drives me nut that they often allow larger girls to work and pay extra not to go on stage. My thought is: if you don't go on stage then you aren't an exotic dancer.





    Chronicles of a strip club DJ
    I have to agree, I refuse to work at clubs that simply don't let girls go on stage becuase they are too large... how can they consider themselves a dancer? I have found these girls tend to do extras due to having to pay sometimes 3 times te house fee's as normal girls.

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    Member LionHeart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    3 times the normal house fee
    Wow , that is a new one for me. I have never heard of that before. That is just awful !

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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    The club I work at is a very upscale topless club. They hire anyone, I mean ANYONE, and just let the ugly girls filter themselves out--We have a lot of very good looking and friendly dancers, so the ugly girls do get filtered out quick.

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    Senior Member Delany's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I've worked a few places in the US and the industry standard is different all over. Girls that consider themselves an 8 would be considered a 5 at some clubs.

    There is a club in Austin that hires girls to dance, but won't let them go on stage. What irritates me is that they don't make them pay $20 to the DJ and $20 to the manager like they do with the other girls that want to pay to stay off stage because they have a good customer in the club.

    I like variety in clubs, but have to admit that there have been times that a girl is working that will only appeal to 2% of the club's clientele.


  12. #12
    tampafldancer
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I like to be the top 10 percent in the looks department wherever i work. So its good that there is a bit of diversity between us, however i do not like to work with anyone under a 5 or so. I dont believe they should even be hired or allowed in the business. They detract from business and often provide extras to survive.

    There is a job out there for every person. 4's 2's 3's 1's DO NOT BELONG IN THIS INDUSTRY AS DANCERS!!!

  13. #13
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I have to agree with tampa.... I know this may make me seem like a mean person but we do work in the SEX industry.... and you have to draw the line somewhere.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I know this may make me seem like a mean person but we do work in the SEX industry.... and you have to draw the line somewhere.
    This was exactly the point I was trying to make ... that in the 90's exotic dancing might have been part of the 'entertainment' industry, such that personal appearance and dancing talent 'standards' were relevant since the major moneymaker was stage tips and direct tips ... but that in 2005 exotic dancing is now clearly part of the 'sex' industry, where the major moneymaker is the ability of 'dancers' to convince customers to part with their money in exchange for private time in the VIP/champagne room, and where the personal appearance and dancing talent of a particular girl are not necessarily of any direct relevance to achieving this (whereas a willingness to provide high contact and 'extras' usually IS of direct relevance).

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Okay Krchabb - your analogy, to begin with, is incredibly faulty. To be a doctor, chartered accountant, registered nurse etc., you need what are called qualifications - most of these are legally mandated qualifications. It is not about "standards" - it's about being UNABLE to perform the job without certain kinds of training. Dancing, like it or not, is not like that. Yes, some girls do a "better job" than others - (although the only way we have of measuring the job is by how much money they make), but ANYONE can do the job. ANYONE can get on the stage, dance poorly and take off their clothes. ANYONE can sit on a customers lap and move around. This takes no training and no special skills. As for "treatment" - what exactly do you mean? Like, to what equal treatment are we referring? Like only girls who weigh under 110 and over 95, have between a B and D cup and no tattoos get a locker? That girls with funky hair, nose rings or who weigh over 130 shouldn't be allowed to make more money than you? And if they do they have to put it in a jar to be divided at the end of the night amongst the "conformist" girls? I've got to be honest. I've never worked at being a dancer. I don't diet, work out, or spend 20 hours a week grooming myself in order to be worthy of dancing. But I would the manager was joking if he said or implied that I COULD work there, but I was barely squeaking in under the wire, so they were going to take my money and treat me like crap so that the "normal" dancers feel better about themselves.

    Secondly - there are no "industry standards." These don't exist. There is nobody who can't get hired somewhere. And, as we all know, it is not always the hottest girls who are making the most money in any club. Sometimes you have the prettiest girls making the least money - wouldn't that mean that they are not meeting industry requirements? Like, since they can't make the money and all? In a service business who exactly determines what the desirable industry standards are? Is the customers? Is the ... I don't know what role the club owners play, if we are the suppliers. But right now they are the one's doing it. Maybe we should have an independent board examining exotic dancing culture and determining, based on consumer desire and staff availability what the industry standard should be?

    TFD - I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) what you are saying is that unattractive girls detract from your potential business. But I don't see how you can determine who should "be allowed" in the industry. That makes no sense. Like if the 4 (and what about those on the cusp girls - you might think she is a 4, but someone thinks she squeaks by as a 5?) is making money in the club there would SEEM to be a place for her in the industry. Like the business can either be self-regulated or regulated. If it were going to be regulated - I think that would be an ugly scenario for all of us. And as for the extras scenario - see here's the thing. That guy, who goes to the 4 to get the extras wasn't going to get a damn thing from you (I'm assuming that you are extra-free). He's apparently willing to go to the skaggiest girl in the room to get the handjob, so he was obviously not willing to spend on anything else. That has nothing to do with your business. You need to worry about the 9's giving handjobs. That will be your competition. Seriously - I have never been the prettiest girl in my club. I have hardly ever been the top earner, but I'm usually up in the top 3 or 4, or at least in the top third. If there is gossip, it is ALWAYS about me because the prettier girls can't understand why I make more money than them, so, from their perspective, I obviously HAVE to be giving blowjobs back there, right? It's not always true. Sometimes the less pretty girls are just busier/thicker skinned/or just plain better than you glamour-pusses.
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  16. #16
    242_fair
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    ... I also know of another clubowner who will turn away any girl who exhibits too much, shall we say, 'strength of personality' - because he prefers to rule his club with an iron fist and doesn't want girls who will 'speak up' regarding his latest stupid idea/rule.
    ~
    Hey, I think I know that guy too!!

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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I think you took Krchabs point way out of context. She gave recognition to girls who have a look that was not traditionally a strip club "standard" She also makes a point of saying that girls who do not get hired at a certain club should not bitch. I think there are many other ways of measuring the job besides the money we make.( But this will depend on each dancer, and what they value most in the job.) I take great value in my stage work. If i make atleast 10 dollars on stage,(In a club that rarely tips stage dancers) and get complimented on my performance, that is what I value and measure for myself to be a great job. Ofcourse, I learn more towards the performance side. A girl more into the lapdance side ,may measure herself by the number of champagne rooms she sells.
    Basically, I think alot of this boils down to how a women treats this job. Yes, we need variety in women, Yes all shapes,sizes, and races are great.
    What bothers me, is how some women treat this job. I have worked with girls who stroll in off the schedule... high as a kite....talk bad and bitch about the customers....slab on a dress and heels....get bitchy if they are not tipped a dollar.. and stay for 2 hours to get what they need.
    To me... this is not treating it as a job... this is treating it as a pitstop for when you need some cash. I know it can not be stopped, and people can do what they please... but it just gets me mad because i value my job so much,,,work hard to keep myself physically and mentally at my best... and always remain respectful and professional. I HATE when someone says to me " "Oh your a dancer,,, well its not hard to be a dancer... anyone can get hired"
    Sure, the job skills as a dancer are not as demanding than a doctors... these are still skills... and should be treated that way. Also, i bet there are female doctors who could not get the guys to ever take their tops off on stage...
    With dancing, I think there is a certain image that should be lived up to. This image is not... you have to be blonde haired and busty..... the image is to take care of yourself(or look like you take care of youself), remain professional and classy( no fighting bitching gossiping or giving bjs') , and really value this as a job.( Put effort and invest in it)
    I would never say that a girl who is "said" to be below an 8.. should not be hired. If there is a girl that is a 20... but does not treat this job like I described above, then she should not be hired. It devalues our job and makes itseem less worthy.
    Ofcourse this is just my opinion, and i do recognize the managers role in this... and the shift from entertainment industry to sex industry.

    There are some girls who just do not do this... and therefore give dancers bad names.

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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    A CORRECTION. There may be female doctors who can never get the *guts" to take off their tops on stage or in a club.

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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    I think there are many other ways of measuring the job besides the money we make.( But this will depend on each dancer, and what they value most in the job.) I take great value in my stage work. If i make atleast 10 dollars on stage,(In a club that rarely tips stage dancers) and get complimented on my performance, that is what I value and measure for myself to be a great job. Ofcourse, I learn more towards the performance side. A girl more into the lapdance side ,may measure herself by the number of champagne rooms she sells.
    Basically, I think alot of this boils down to how a women treats this job.
    Again, this is indicative of the 'disconnect' which has taken place between exotic dancing being the 'entertainment' business versus the 'sex' business. Regardless of what dancers choose to value, in the final analysis it is the clubowner/managers who decide which girls to hire and which to send packing, which was the leading issue in this thread. And in the vast majority of cases, such decisions are made based on the financial contribution a prospective dancer will likely make TO THE CLUB. With absolutely no intent of casting aspersions, today most clubowners/managers could care less about a dancer's stage performance abilities (from which the club collects nothing), and care a lot about a dancer's ability to sell lap dances/VIP/champagne room time (from which the club collects a hefty cut).

  20. #20
    God/dess Miss Jessica's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy1234
    May be its my self image, or confidence level, but I never considered my self, in my eyes to be above a six. Of course a six to me may not be a six to you.
    So, who sets a standard for what a six should look like?
    Now, to my input,
    When I began, it was at one of those HTW. And I was plain Jane. But I hustled more cusotmers. But this led nowhere.
    You get this, "If you get one more dance from me, you fucking bitch, and I'm gonna kick your ass!" And me being the wimpy newbie that I was, ended up giving some of earnings to those gals as form of protection.
    Now, don't pretend it don't exist. Because it does. I know you guys have seen it.
    All right, this went for three more weeks.
    This last week, I really needed the money, and that bitch came in demanding that I give, and guess what. Yes. I nearly killed her.
    My point here, is this, when we talk about industry standards, don't only talk about looks, performance, and blah, blah, blah.
    Talk about working conditions. the environment, If there is only but a slight improvemnt in these areas, the improvement in other areas will hopefully follow.
    I'm done ranting now.
    woah. Where the hell were you working??? That's absolutely horrid....
    "We all must suffer from one of two pains: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. The difference is discipline weighs ounces while regret weighs tons. In order to achieve what others don't, you have to do what others won't."


  21. #21
    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    TFD - I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) what you are saying is that unattractive girls detract from your potential business. But I don't see how you can determine who should "be allowed" in the industry. That makes no sense. Like if the 4 (and what about those on the cusp girls - you might think she is a 4, but someone thinks she squeaks by as a 5?) is making money in the club there would SEEM to be a place for her in the industry. Like the business can either be self-regulated or regulated. If it were going to be regulated - I think that would be an ugly scenario for all of us. And as for the extras scenario - see here's the thing. That guy, who goes to the 4 to get the extras wasn't going to get a damn thing from you (I'm assuming that you are extra-free). He's apparently willing to go to the skaggiest girl in the room to get the handjob, so he was obviously not willing to spend on anything else. That has nothing to do with your business. You need to worry about the 9's giving handjobs. That will be your competition. Seriously - I have never been the prettiest girl in my club. I have hardly ever been the top earner, but I'm usually up in the top 3 or 4, or at least in the top third. If there is gossip, it is ALWAYS about me because the prettier girls can't understand why I make more money than them, so, from their perspective, I obviously HAVE to be giving blowjobs back there, right? It's not always true. Sometimes the less pretty girls are just busier/thicker skinned/or just plain better than you glamour-pusses.

    Actually, the 1-4 girls bring down the club; which in turn resorts to a decrease in custy clientle; which in turn results extras running rampant to make up for the loss of business.

    I don't think certain girls should be allowed to dance anywhere nekked except in their own showers.

    And why owuld "it be an ulgy thing" if this business were regulated a little more? Seriously, when was the last time (asiee from Richard Simmons "Sweatin' to the Oldies") you saw a chick that was more model worthy have her own fittness show, or tapes? I personally have not.

    The standard should fit the norm of society. (which is totally not the case usually, but I digress.) Actually the norm of what society feels is attractive. You see women who are size 12 and up all over the place. But you DEFINATLY do not see Hollister running out and creating a plus size line. They aren't lowering their standards to conform to a select group, so why should this business?

    I do not see a place for any girl who wants to be a dancer, but who los lie Hatchet-face off of CryBaby. Pity the custys who wouls have to see that though...
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  22. #22
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by kitana
    Actually, the 1-4 girls bring down the club; which in turn resorts to a decrease in custy clientle; which in turn results extras running rampant to make up for the loss of business.
    I understand the rationale, at least as far as the decrease in clientele - and I think that is what I meant when I said that they interfered with her business.

    I don't think certain girls should be allowed to dance anywhere nekked except in their own showers.
    Okay, that's fine - there are many people that I don't want to see naked either. But arguing that you don't want to see them is different from demanding they be ousted from an industry that is presumably supporting them - if the 4 is making money obviously the consumer aspect thinks she DOES belong in the business. Here, we seem to be saying that the competition should get to decide who is worthy to enter the biz. That is not sensible.

    And why owuld "it be an ulgy thing" if this business were regulated a little more? Seriously, when was the last time (asiee from Richard Simmons "Sweatin' to the Oldies") you saw a chick that was more model worthy have her own fittness show, or tapes? I personally have not.
    Okay, I am not sure I understand here what you are saying - so I am going on the assumption that you are arguing that all fitness models and exercise tape leaders (because I have no idea what that job title would actually be) should be model worthy, and that should also be the standard for dancers? Have I got that right? Okay - well, there is a reason that Richard Simmons sold so many tapes. Because the people on them weren't model worthy. Don't get me wrong - I know perfectly well that the reason Cindy Crawford sold a lot of tapes was because she was beautiful. But it is clearly demonstrated that there is room in that industry for non-models. Look at Rodney Yee. In this industry it is the same thing - it has been clearly and amply demonstrated that the non-model worthy girls CAN make money, CAN hold a clientele and that they are sometimes very popular dancers. Saying that this SHOULD not be so, or presenting arguments that deem it illogical does not do away with the extant reality.

    The standard should fit the norm of society. (which is totally not the case usually, but I digress.) Actually the norm of what society feels is attractive. You see women who are size 12 and up all over the place. But you DEFINATLY do not see Hollister running out and creating a plus size line. They aren't lowering their standards to conform to a select group, so why should this business?
    I don't even know what a Hollister is. What is a Hollister? I would argue that this business, as a whole, does not have standards. It never has. This is not a way of saying that it is going to hell, but a way of saying that there has never been an agreement or a body detailing what is acceptable and not in this business. In the 70's there were clubs that would hire old/fat/ugly girls. And there are now. There are clubs that hire beautiful/young/thin girls, as there are now. But there has never been an industry wide standard. Now, the theory is running that it will regulate itself - that ugly girls will not make money when stacked next to the beautiful girls, so they will find their level (proverbially) or get out of the biz. It seems what the problem some girls have is that the "ugly" girls ARE making money, and they are getting this idea that their level isn't really that low, and that customers (who generally get to decide these things) may not actually put such a premium on the model-worthy as what you might have thought.

    As per regulating the industry - what do you suggest? A nationwide body that studies the women who want to dance, the demand for dancers, and customer preference and then works out a curve for certain kinds women? Each club would have to label itself A level, B level and C level and women who weigh more than 130 can only work in C? How would you go about doing this? To me it sounds kind of crazy.

    I do not see a place for any girl who wants to be a dancer, but who los lie Hatchet-face off of CryBaby. Pity the custys who wouls have to see that though...
    Well, me too. But if she makes the money there are obviously enough customers who WANT to see it.

    but it just gets me mad because i value my job so much,,,work hard to keep myself physically and mentally at my best... and always remain respectful and professional. I HATE when someone says to me " "Oh your a dancer,,, well its not hard to be a dancer... anyone can get hired"
    Silky - I think you are really sweet and cute for taking the job so seriously, and investing so much in it. But from my perspective it would be a ridiculous thing for me to do. First thing - I work for money. That's it. Not personal satisfaction. If I wanted to be a performance artist or dancer, I would pursue that, and not this bastardized, hybrid form of entertainment/sex. $10.00 on a stage would not make me happy if my total was $120, not because I "identify" as a lapdancer, but because I expect to make more money than that, you know? I think the girls who come in for 2 hours, get what they need and then leave make perfect sense - I mean, don't get me wrong, it's bad and sad when they are addicts or whatnot, but, ultimately, you don't get a pension, and the industry doesn't give back to you except in the form of cash. And the fact is - anyone can get hired. Anyone can be a dancer, somewhere. Trust me. I used to work with Hachet Face from Cry-Baby. You can't expect these girls to leave the industry because it offends your vanity, nor can you possibly think it is a good reason to deprive them of their livelihood.
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  23. #23
    Darcy Foxx
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    There's a definite difference between 'ugly' girls and 'downright disgusting' girls. I don't think 'ugly' girls damage a club's reputation so much - I've worked with many who never gave extras, were lovely, hardworking girls, who were regularly top earners. These girls were always well dressed and made themselves look as nice as they could - they were just born unlucky in the looks department. I don't see anything wrong with hiring girls like that to an extent.

    However, it used to horrify me when my boss would hire girls from the 'downright disgusting' category. I'm not talking on a scale of 1-10 or anything like that, I'm talking about the girls with rotted teeth, trackmarks up their arms, homemade tattoos, greasy hair and rough clothing. It is girls like THAT which damage a club's reputation. Girls who are very overweight and make no effort to change damage a club's reputation. I personally feel that that is where a general industry standard should lie. I believe clubs should have their own personal standard depending on clientele targets / management choice etc, but girls like I just described should just not be in the industry at all, because it's girls like that who give the rest of us a bad name.

  24. #24
    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Jenny, I can't believe you don't know what a Hollister is, lol.

    www.hollisterco.com

    I think the largest size they have is an 11, which is actually a 9 since they run small.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExoticEngineer View Post
    Feel like a damn salt lick at the goats petting zoo!
    <08SM>

  25. #25
    tampafldancer
    Guest

    Default Re: Industry Standerds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    TFD - I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) what you are saying is that unattractive girls detract from your potential business. But I don't see how you can determine who should "be allowed" in the industry. That makes no sense. Like if the 4 (and what about those on the cusp girls - you might think she is a 4, but someone thinks she squeaks by as a 5?) is making money in the club there would SEEM to be a place for her in the industry. Like the business can either be self-regulated or regulated. If it were going to be regulated - I think that would be an ugly scenario for all of us. And as for the extras scenario - see here's the thing. That guy, who goes to the 4 to get the extras wasn't going to get a damn thing from you (I'm assuming that you are extra-free). He's apparently willing to go to the skaggiest girl in the room to get the handjob, so he was obviously not willing to spend on anything else. That has nothing to do with your business. You need to worry about the 9's giving handjobs. That will be your competition. Seriously - I have never been the prettiest girl in my club. I have hardly ever been the top earner, but I'm usually up in the top 3 or 4, or at least in the top third. If there is gossip, it is ALWAYS about me because the prettier girls can't understand why I make more money than them, so, from their perspective, I obviously HAVE to be giving blowjobs back there, right? It's not always true. Sometimes the less pretty girls are just busier/thicker skinned/or just plain better than you glamour-pusses.
    Apparently i hit a sore spot. VERY unattractive girls detract from the club's business. Im talking gentleman's clubs. If extra's are going on... Like sex, blowjobs etc... I believe that that is not our business(dancing). THAT business should go on strictly outside the club.

    BTW, i am a top earner and i have had no problems with dancers less blessed in the um "glamour puss" department make more money then me. But that doesn't happen often

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