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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Court Vision - I didn't know who you were at first. When I saw you addressing responses to MY question, I though you were just some pompous ass. Now that your true identity is revealed, I KNOW your just some pompous ass. Pleasure doing business with you good sir. *deep bow*

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    *edit* "you're" not "your"...I really must start proofreading.

    If I didn't make this post, Court Vision certainly would've made it for me (he is a pompous ass).

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Were you thinking of making it a nude club or a topless/bikini club? I ask because around here in a nude club the girls want the guy to come in, spend all his money, and get out. I was wondering how it would benefit anyone if the guys stay for a long time. All the girls at work get irritated when a guy's been there forever and either already spent all his money, or is waiting and waiting until the last minute to spend any. I mean maybe if they were required to tip everyone who goes on stage then it would be ok, but other than that they're just a waste of time and space.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Things I look for when working in a club:
    1. Must have some kind of alcohol service. I don't do juice bars because the level of contact is usually higher, and house fees are usually outrageous.
    2. Poles- doesn't matter to me one way or the other have them or don't, spinning or not, I'll happily work someplace that I can make a good living at even if I have to travel half way accross the country to get there.
    3.Hire a janitor to clean all portions of the club every day! Just think about what hairspray, makeup, purfume, ciggarette smoke, self tanner, lotions and a variety or other substances can do to all surfaces over time. Not pretty I tell you.
    4. Make sure there is enough light in the clubs so that bouncers can see if there is any extras going on. Make sure your club enforces the "no extras" rules.
    5. Video surveialence is always helpful. That unbliking eye can cover your butt in many cases. (bars are known for employee theft more then any other kind of business).
    6. I think the best kind of tip out system is one where the tips are pooled amoungst all the employees, so there is no favorites being played (I'm talking djs, floormen, house moms)
    7. Have a ready supply of basic dancer needs like, shoe no-skids, stockings, panties, pasties or latex (if a pastie bar), nail glue, deoderant, tampons, hair spray, and most importantly- Baby wipes!
    8. If a nude bar have a black light near the croch-peek mirror. I don't know how many times girls couldn't see lint that glows in black light!
    9. Build stairs with a low riser. We are in 6" plus heels!
    10. Get professional lighting and sound help. This service is worth it's weight in gold!
    11. Advertise and give the dancers someone to dance for. If the customers don't know you are there, it won't matter how awesome your dancers are.
    12. Offer real training to novice dancers. The first club I worked in offered "training available", but in reality the owner just showed were everything was, and told me to get on the stage and be nude by the end of my stage set. That's all the training I ever got.

    And that is all I can think of for now. As far as all the dancer amenities and the like, it really doesn't matter much to me if I can't make a living at your club, so make sure there are customers there and everything else is secondary.


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  5. #30
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Hey - I think it's really cute that you want to provide such a hospitable environment for the dancers. However, a lot of what you are suggesting is really unnecessary. You might do better to just have basic service and cut back on fees. I think girls would rather keep their money than curl up and watch TV in a club change room. So first - charge reasonable fees. I would recommend (although I know you are unlikely to do this) that you do let girls set their own schedules, and offer incentive to get them in on the off hours. Clubs can work this way. They do work this way. My club works this way. You can still eat and not exploit your dancers - it's not a one or the other situation.

    Couches and stuff - you know that in 3 weeks they will be gross and dirty and nobody will want to sit on them. Buy chairs that at least don't look like they will absorb bacteria. Girls will sit on their own wraps and keep their ass cooties to themselves. TVs - completely unnecessary. Nobody wants or needs them.

    In most clubs I work in the girls never use the showers - same as before, it seems really unsanitary. Most of them would rather go home and shower. Covnersely, if you want to keep them nice you will have to pay for the upkeep - the extra cleaning time, drain clearage, whatever. A bunch of dancers, who shed 2 hairs will clog the drains pretty quick. In terms of cleanliness you have to understand. After the first person leaves a tissue on the counter, it all goes to hell. And SOMEONE in your club is going to leave the tissue.

    What you can provide is adequate locker space - have enough lockers for the number of girls you employ. Sell locks at a reasonable price. Cost, or whatever. Same for mirrors. Don't sell them, but have them. If you want to keep supplies I would sell them to the dancers at cost - tampons, rubbing alcohol, etc. Just sell by the box or bottle. That way it is appreciated, useful, and you aren't losing anything. Good lighting.

    Whether the poles rotate or not, brass is better than stainless steel for the climby girls.

    Use the industrial public toilets in the change rooms or dancer washrooms that you would use in the men's room. So many clubs just install the cheap home toilet, and then wonder that they get clogged. You can have 200 butts on that toilet in a night.

    Don't use cheap carpet in the changeroom. Just use a cheap linoleum that is patterned or marbled so it doesn't look gross, and one piece cut out. Not peel and stick. It's easy to clean. It's nice to walk into a change room and not feel like you are walking into a bacteria frat party.

    Actually enforce a no drug policy. I fucking hate drugs in the change room. Smells get into your hair and clothes. It makes me crazy.

    Don't go into the girls changeroom. Or only go in when you need to be there, and keep out the male staff, especially at peak change times. It's beyond annoying to have male staff trotting in and out of the changeroom like it's their personal fucking wonderland. The changeroom is not the floor - it is private and should be limited to women unless men need to be there.

    Clean everything everyday. Clubs let this go, because, as I said above, someone is going to leave the first tissue, and club owners develop a real snotty attitude about cleaning up after dancers. I get it in a way - but hey, you guys don't want to pay us, we're not employees, now hold up your end.

    Scholarships - completely impracticable. You'd have to check your local regulations on setting up scholarships; but I don't think it is a reasonable idea. There are too many ways to take advantage of this idea. You could in theory do what some work places do and reimburse tuition after the year if the employee gets a minimum grade (usually a c+). But again, I think if you instead just treat your dancers with consideration, the student dancers will be happy.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Don't go into the girls changeroom. Or only go in when you need to be there, and keep out the male staff, especially at peak change times. It's beyond annoying to have male staff trotting in and out of the changeroom like it's their personal fucking wonderland. The changeroom is not the floor - it is private and should be limited to women unless men need to be there.

    Clean everything everyday. Clubs let this go, because, as I said above, someone is going to leave the first tissue, and club owners develop a real snotty attitude about cleaning up after dancers. I get it in a way - but hey, you guys don't want to pay us, we're not employees, now hold up your end.

    Scholarships - completely impracticable. You'd have to check your local regulations on setting up scholarships; but I don't think it is a reasonable idea. There are too many ways to take advantage of this idea. You could in theory do what some work places do and reimburse tuition after the year if the employee gets a minimum grade (usually a c+). But again, I think if you instead just treat your dancers with consideration, the student dancers will be happy.
    I agree with all of these. Scholarships?? I have already gotten my education, and have no desire to return to school at this time. Seems like you would be playing to a certian type of dancer, and not wanting the serious career dancer inyour club.

    How about profit sharing? Put a percentage of house fees toward shares in the company, and pay dividends to your dancers and staff. This will give dancers more ownership in "their club" then any other thing you can do. IF dancers are getting a portion of the profits of the club they will be less likely to piss off customers, and more likely to spend their own money there (food and drinks etc.)

    I quoted Jenny because I thought those points needed to be made again!


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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    ^What Jenny and Paris just said.

    Especially the part about the black light near the crotch-check area: I'd totally forgotten about that little problem!

    I think it's difficult to give advice without having more details about where the club will be and whether it will be a nude juicebar or topless with alcohol. A lot of your basic business design, it seems, will be dependent on the local ordinances regarding these things.

    But without having that information, here are some things that were important to me in choosing a club:

    1) A GOOD-SIZED STAGE! The dance studio floor is good....but more important is the degree of slipperiness, and the size and shape. Make it large enough that there is room for plenty of seating, and enough room for a girl who actually dances () to put on a good show.

    2)On poles: I was an excellent dancer, but never much of a pole monkey. I'd suggest that you have at least one good-sized stage without a pole, for girls who dance but aren't, as Jenny put it, "climby."

    3) I always preferred clubs with a reasonable flat tip-out rate to clubs where the house took a percentage of your lapdance money. In fact, I refuse to work in those clubs. Because then the guys feel like they should be getting a $30 lapdance, while you feel that they should be getting a $15 or $20 lapdance (depending on the club's take). It just kind of exacerbates the already somewhat adversarial nature of the dancer-customer relationship.

    Of course, most clubs do take a percentage of private room fees, and that's fine, as long as it's a reasonable percentage. Otherwise, again: If the club takes, say, half of the CR money, then the customer wants $300 worth of....stuff...in the CR, but the dancer wants to provide a $150 experience. Frankly, based on what I've been reading on both sides of this board, I think that clubs that take a too-high percentage of private room money are creating the conditions under which 'extras' become inevitable....and that, of course, would be bad for you as a club owner (unless, I guess, you know the right people to pay off. )

    4) As for amenities, I might suggest a good-quality tanning bed. You could charge the girls a discount rate. That would be appreciated, I think.

    5)My ATF club was a nude juice bar, but they had a BYOB policy. This was great for everyone! The guys were happy, cause they were drunk and they could see pussy! They also ended up spending less on alcohol and more on dances. And I could bring whatever microbrew or nice bottle of Bordeaux or Barolo I wanted. (As opposed to alcohol/topless clubs, where one is often forced to drink Coors Light or wine-from-a-box. blech.)

    From the owner's POV, I imagine you'd have less hassle with liquor commission, ABC, etc....

    Your ideas about benefits are sorta....well....crazy. It's just not done in the industry. I'm not saying it wouldn't be appreciated (especially a low-cost group health plan or something)....I just don't see how it's doable. Is it????

    I think it begs the question: How important is dancer turnover? It sounds as though you have some vision of attracting a fabulous group of dependable dancers and keeping them happy. I'm not sure how realistic that is (though it's a nice idea.) Maybe it could work, but most clubs expect to have a high turnover, and some amount of turnover is clearly good for business. You don't want a brand new group of dancers once every two weeks, of course.....but you need to have some fresh meat mixed in with the good-quality long-termers (the kind who cultivate regulars). Right? Keep this in mind as you consider your business model.

    Those are my thoughts for now. I'll post more later....
    Last edited by Nicolina; 09-23-2005 at 12:48 PM.
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    How about profit sharing? Put a percentage of house fees toward shares in the company, and pay dividends to your dancers and staff. This will give dancers more ownership in "their club" then any other thing you can do. IF dancers are getting a portion of the profits of the club they will be less likely to piss off customers, and more likely to spend their own money there (food and drinks etc.)
    Wow, Paris! What a wild idea! Not only is it innovative...it might actually work!
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Don't go into the girls changeroom. Or only go in when you need to be there, and keep out the male staff, especially at peak change times. It's beyond annoying to have male staff trotting in and out of the changeroom like it's their personal fucking wonderland. The changeroom is not the floor - it is private and should be limited to women unless men need to be there.
    This was the one nice thing about my club. The housemom had a walkie-talkie and anytime one of the managers needed to see a dancer, he would radio the housemom and she would send the dancer down to the manager's office as soon as the dancer was done changing/dressing/etc. The men were absolutely NOT allowed into the locker room...well, except for the masseuse...he was MORE than welcomed every night!!

    Speaking of which...offer a masseuse (sp?). The one at our club charged $1/minute. It was nice to be able to run into the locker room and get a quick 10 minute foot massage. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it was so refreshing...and the masseuse made quite a bit of money doing that for 50+ girls a night.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Thanks, ladies, for all the great points! Regarding the profit sharing type stuff, I thought of an idea to handle private dance percentages (if we have them) that's sort of like "profit sharing" on a nightly basis. As the volume of each dancer's dances goes up, the house cut goes down. For example (I'm just pulling numbers out of my butt), maybe we take 1/3 on a girl's first 10 dances, 1/4 on the next 10, and nothing after that. It seems like that would encourage and reward dancers for giving lots of dances, and encourage them to give quality dances from the beginning (in the hope that customers enjoy the dance and will buy more, which means the girls get a bigger cut sooner). Also, it would reward us because if girls are giving lots of dances then that probably means more people have come through the door, or are staying longer, which means more door charges, more drink sales, etc. Thoughts?

    I'll stew on ways to accomplish long-term profit sharing. Thanks again!

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    . . . Scholarships?? I have already gotten my education, and have no desire to return to school at this time. Seems like you would be playing to a certian type of dancer, and not wanting the serious career dancer inyour club.
    An excellent point. I hadn't thought of that in terms of to whom that benefit would be catering. Perhaps scholarships could be an optional benefit, with a benefit of similar value being available for those like you who want no further education. Or, perhaps we could not have them at all, and devote the funds to something else that is a write-off for us and no increase in taxable income to you. Like, as has been suggested, a tanning bed! (Actually, I'm not positive that a tanning bed wouldn't be includible in your income, but I'd guess it would be a deductible fringe benefit. Dammit, that's one more thing I have to check the tax Code on. )

    Regarding drug and "extras" policies, we will have strict policies (and cameras) in place. However, we are concerned about girls who would make false accusations to waste our time or cause trouble for dancers they don't like. At the same time, we don't want to deter those who would make honest accusations, even if they don't always turn out to be right. Any ideas about a policy for that?

    A basic outline of one that I've thought of goes like this: reward for an accusation that turns out to be right; several (3? 5?) wrong accusations results in fines or termination; a right accusation takes away a wrong accusation (so that a girl who happens to make a lot of accusations but is frequently right doesn't get penalized).

    Regarding cameras, we intend to have them covering the entire club, inside and out, except for the dressing room. This may create a problem with our drug and extras policies. As of now, we don't intend to find a violation based solely on a girl's say-so, so when a girl makes an accusation we will check the cameras to see if she's right. Unfortunately, I would guess that the dressing room is where much of the drug activity among dancers would take place, (is that true?), and that's where we don't have cameras. Are we just SOL as far as this goes? Any ideas?

    So many questions. Were you all ready for this? Anyway, I hope you all are having as much fun designing our club as we are!

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    A lot of people are suggesting an enforced drug-free policy -- and I absolutely agree. 100%, no getting fucked-up at work!

    However, I'd like to add that if you wish to test urine or hair, you should try to keep it to testing only dancers who are under suspicion, or only testing for the 'habit' drugs (heroin, amphetamines, cocaine.)

    Drug testing is not particularly reliable and more than that -- it doesn't test for problem usage but for any exposure, and if I could count on my fingers everyone I knew who couldn't get hired in some normal job because they'd smoked pot (or, worse, been at a party where someone ELSE had smoked pot) in the last month, I'd be a freak with fingers all over my body!

    30% of the people in the US smoke the stuff sometimes, and they're not all deadbeats, irresponsible people, problem users. The economy would have collapsed long ago if they were. :-)

    The usual drug test methods also turn up a lot of unreliable positives in non-users, which means that testing on entrance makes your talent pool go way down.

    But I agree that if a girl is caught with drugs at the club -- or is acting funny like she's on something -- it's perfectly fair to test her, or just fire her outright.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Hmm -- it occurs to me that if you wanna do scholarships, a good alternate for them might be the health benefits, AS LONG AS the school(s) in question has(have) their own health benefits. (A lot of colleges do, but some are not much good. I've been on a campus with an office that actually prescribes medication and stuff -- and on one where you basically get bandaids and condoms.)

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Jenny - I appreciate your comments very much, but I want to address one thing that you said specifically and perhaps you didn't mean it how it sounds...

    I'm paraphrasing here..."It's kind of cute how you want to take care of the dancers..."

    This comment concerns me because it seems to imply one of two things: (1) That I'm not really that serious about taking care of the dancers or (2) that it is not practical to do so.

    (1) My motives are three-fold.

    A. Retention - I am not in a huge market wherein dancers are a dime a dozen. Retention of dancers will be more of a concern for me than for an owner in Manhattan.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    (sorry, I hit the wrong key...this is continued from above)

    B. Attraction of new dancers - I wish to create a unique reputation within the community. Other club owners will undoubtedly dislike me and my club due because it will (hopefully) be a more attractive place to work than their club. Fortunately, I don't need the approval of my competition. If my competition liked me, that would likely mean that I was failing. The approval of dancers on the other hand, I DO need.

    C. The third reason is more abstract, but just as important. I'm a good guy. I treat people well if they deserve to be treated as such. If a dancer does something that merits her being treated less than very well, she won't be one of my dancers. Additionally, I would like the feeling of showing up at my club and being well-received rather than dreaded. I want girls to say "Yea! He's here!" rather than "F*ck...now I gotta deal with HIM again". Even further, who would you rather help out...someone who treated you like a professional who deserves respect, or someone who treated you like a disposable commodity? I'm sure there will come times where I may need to call on a dancer for help and I'm pretty sure that I'd be a lot more likely to get it from someone that I've gone the extra mile for.

    (2) The average restraunt fails after two years. If I wanted to start a restraunt, should I do what the other restraunts are doing? Sure...if I wanted to go bankrupt. In the past 30 months, my investments have returned 1396% (not a typo). I damn sure haven't gotten that result by following conventional "wisdom"! When Henry Ford started the Ford Motor company, he paid literally double the prevailing wage. Double! Ford productivity went through the roof. Ford simply dominated the market. Other manufacturers thought that ol' Hank was out of his freaking mind. Then they went out of business. Pissed off dancers don't get private dancers (at least not in the clubs I've been to...and I've been to my fair share). Pissed off dancers don't bring regulars into the club either. Regarding that last point, there is a general business rule that 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your customers (regulars). If a dancer is worrying about health insurance, buying school books, etc., she isn't worrying about generating revenue for ME. You might argue then that she should be paying for those things with the money she makes on stage. You would have a fine point, but an incomplete one. Certain perks (like health insurance, investments, etc.) require a big time committment. If we find a suitable health policy, then the dancer, who may or may not know the first thing about insurance, doesn't have to spend her time doing that research. It is done for her.

    I know you weren't busting my chops with your comment. If you though I wasn't serious, you wouldn't have given me such a lengthy, well-organized response. I really do appreciate it very much. I was just worried that someone might read that line, take it the wrong way, and disregard my inquiry. Thanks again Jenny.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Put cameras in the dressing room. This will save your butt.

    One club I worked at had a nice way of charging dance fees. If the dancer wanted to keep all of her LD money all she had to do was pay a $50 fee before she starts her shift, and she gets to keep all her LD money and VIP money for the night. If she chose to not pay the fee, then she owed $10 per LD or $20 per VIP show to the house. (the dances were $30 and $80 respectively)

    An expierenced dancer could really do well with this method of payout. Where the club will make the money is off the girls who are always broke, despite having made $500-1000 the previous shift! You'll be able to see who your smart business women are in your club.


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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by amadeus_x
    Jenny - I appreciate your comments very much, but I want to address one thing that you said specifically and perhaps you didn't mean it how it sounds...

    I'm paraphrasing here..."It's kind of cute how you want to take care of the dancers..."
    Sorry - I meant to say something else after it that would have changed the tone.
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Put cameras in the dressing room. This will save your butt.
    Interesting. Of course I'd like to put them in there for security reasons, but I assumed that the dressing room was kind of a private area and that girls would think that was invading their privacy. You really wouldn't mind? I guess that'll show me for assuming!

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    I've sat on the sidelines so far, but now that several different points of view have been posted I'll add mine ...

    A. Attracting and retaining top notch dancers ultimately boils down to two principles - maximum earnings potential and minimum restrictive rules

    B. Maximum earnings potential depends on the discretionary spending ability of the specific local customer base, plus the ability of dancers to offer a service the customers are willing to spend big bucks on, counterbalanced by the club's attempts to collect a portion of dancers' earnings via stage fees and/or percentages.

    C. With the exception of a tiny minority of dancers (many of whom frequent SW) who understand the overall economics of operating a business, the vast majority of dancers are self-centered in terms of finances. Thus any attempts to redistribute income via offering 'quasi-employee' benefits financed by stage fees/percentages will put off top notch dancers and attract/retain marginal dancers (since a larger dollar amount of the top notch dancer's earnings will be put into the benefit pool which is then evenly divided with marginal dancers who contributed much less).

    D. 'Incentive' schemes always work to encourage a certain thing and discourage its opposite. Thus a high fixed dollar amount stage fee encourages top notch dancers and discourages marginal dancers. A percentage based fee structure discourages top notch dancers and encourages marginal dancers.

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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Court Vision
    Interesting. Of course I'd like to put them in there for security reasons, but I assumed that the dressing room was kind of a private area and that girls would think that was invading their privacy. You really wouldn't mind? I guess that'll show me for assuming!
    I only request that there be no cameras in the tiolet/shower area of the dressing room. I've had items stolen frequently enough to feel more comfortable with cameras in the dressing/locker room area of the club. Other things I've observed: Girls urinating in each other's bag, various food items being dumped in dancers bags, Clothes getting shredded with scissors or knives, drug use, dancers having sex with each other when they should be working, Dancers having sex with other staff member when they shoudl be working, dancers becoming physically violent with one another, underage drinking, drug dealing, vandalism of lockers or in general, dancers poisoning each other (ruffies or visine or something non leathal, but really bad in any case). I think you get the point and the need of dressing room cams.

    Reward for snitching? Won't work. I do sometimes confide in management, but not very often. That is why you hire security staff, and your house mom is your dressing room security.


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  21. #46
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Honestly Court, I would resent cameras in the dressing room. I think your instinct there was dead on. I would also refuse to work anywhere they tested me for drugs - and I've never done illegal drugs. I would find a completely unwarranted and illegal invasion of my privacy. Hire, or lease your space, based on behaviour, not drug tests.

    Here's a part of Paris's model that I don't particularly like - if dancers are back there having sex with anyone it is their own business (unless you are really concerned with the hygiene of the club). There is no "should be working" for indies. That's what makes them indies. If you want to control their work time you have to pay them. I really resent when I'm paying to come in to work somewhere, someone telling me when to be there, how long to stay and how long I can take in the changeroom. The rest of your staff however, should not be having sex in the changeroom - there you have legitimate grounds. The issue with vandalism (which, honestly, I've encountered occasionally, but not a lot) and theft (a little bit more) is easily dealt with by having enough lockers. There are some clubs where you can safely set up a little workstation with baby wipes and tissues and (most) of them will still be there - others, you turn your back and some bitch has stolen your baby wipes. And you're like "What the fuck? You take off your clothes and let men touch you for money. You don't make enough to buy your own damn baby wipes? You HAVE to steal mine?" - I digress. Point is, it is the girls that make that environment and really there is nobody who can control it. (True story - I worked in a club where girls would leave piles - I mean piles - of money at their work station and it was never touched.) Provide lockers to protect from theft, and you have done your duty.
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  22. #47
    Senior Member Abbeynormal's Avatar
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Bottom line, no matter how much you try to keep illegal activity out of a place, it finds its way in. Someone will discover that they can smoke or whatever in the bathroom, in a certain corner the camera doesn't reach, etc. You'll have to do the best you can on this one.
    "This above all: to thine own self be true."

  23. #48
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    amadeus & CV:

    Could you at least tell us if the club will be topless with alcohol or a nude juice bar (possibly with a BYOB policy)? Some clubs these days incorporate both of these models, with one side of the divided building functioning as a nude club and the other as a topless club.

    Also, are you envisioning an upscale, top-notch 'gentlemen's club', with very high tip-outs and very exclusive hiring practices (the kind that will attract top-notch dancers like Melonie)?

    Or are you leaning more toward a comfortable, well-run, neighborhood place--a midscale club with pretty, friendly, hard-working girls who don't necessarily have the genetic blessings and/or cosmetic enhancements that are required of the girls who get hired in the PECs and high-end Vegas-type clubs?
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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  24. #49
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Nicolina - We are not going to be an "upscale" club (according to the industry use of the term anyway). On the flipside, we are not going to be a hole-in-the-wall either. So somewhere in that range. Hopefully the following will help make my point clearer: we will be tastefully decorated (though not "posh"), clean, well-maintained and housed in a building that we are having custom built for our purposes.

    We haven't decided what format we'll be exactly, but we are leaning in a couple of directions that are largely based on our jurisdiction's liquor code. We are considering being topless and selling alcohol up until a certain point in the night (midnight for example) and then cutting off the alcohol and going full-nude. Again, how we structure this depends largely on our draconian liquor commission. At first we were leaning toward being a full-nude juice bar, but now are leaning more toward the hybrid approach just mentioned.

    We have by no means ruled out alternatives (such as being topless only with alcohol, etc.). We're just trying to find the most profitable option. We are also concerned as to whether the hybrid approach would make scheduling very difficult in that some girls who would go topless may not go full nude. Any input you have regarding this matter would be very appreciated.

    Thanks.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: What would dancers like?

    Quote Originally Posted by amadeus_x
    We haven't decided what format we'll be exactly, but we are leaning in a couple of directions that are largely based on our jurisdiction's liquor code. We are considering being topless and selling alcohol up until a certain point in the night (midnight for example) and then cutting off the alcohol and going full-nude. Again, how we structure this depends largely on our draconian liquor commission. At first we were leaning toward being a full-nude juice bar, but now are leaning more toward the hybrid approach just mentioned.
    Juice bars suck. It allows younger guys in...and they really don't spend money. The people who part with the bucks are the older guys (30-50). Very rarely will you see a 20 year old spreading the wealth.

    That being said...make sure you really have your liqour laws clear. If you have a liqour license (in some jurisdictions) that would mean that you could not have nudity AT ALL...for any reason. You'll get shut down. It doesn't matter if not intending for anyone to consume it...you would have to clear out every ounce of liqour before having any kind of nudity. But, really...from a lot of the "laws" I've seen...once you have a liqour license and have a full stocked liqour bar...you cannot, under any circumstances, have any full nudity.

    From my experience, clubs that have a liqour license make their money off the drinks and not the dancers. They may still charge a lot for the dancers, but they don't depend on the dancers for making over-head. The HITW club that I started at (juice bar only) charged the dancers $100 stage fee plus you had to pay out 50% of your nightly dance money...and that was before you tipped out the DJ and the bouncers. Fucking bullshit. No one really made money (the girls that worked there considered making $400/wk full time good). At the upscale club, we paid anywhere from $40-$120 house fee and paid out the nose for tip-outs, etc...but the potential for big money was there. I went from making $180 on a friday night at the HITW club to making $500+ (on average) on a Sunday night (the other club was closed on Sundays). The liqour keeps them happy...it helps them open their wallets a bit more...and everyone is happy.

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