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Thread: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

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    Default Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    My club just put a suggestion box in the office and I want to leave them QUITE A FEW words...

    but I need a little help .... I read somewhere on here that since at most clubs, we are not 'employees' by contract, but independent sub-contractors, that they cannot legally subject us to all the fines. Now tip out and house fees I'm ok with, but my club has fines for EVERYTHING. $30 if you dont get a champagne room dance, $25 if you miss role call, $25 for leaving too much stuff on the dressing room counter, $25 for staying in the dressing room or bathroom too long, $10 for not paying tip out before you start your shift, also call-off fees, rescheduling fees, probably more fees I've never heard about - plus they are hounding you all night about how many dances you've done/need to do

    I want to mention how very BOGUS this is, and throw in a little legal jargon, but I want to be sure I have my facts straight. Is what I read about that true?

    A few more words for the Box:

    -DO NOT treat dancers like toddlers. We are not all high school drop outs, crackheads, or whatever the hell - speak to us like intelligent adults. The condescension is MADDENING

    -STOP BUGGING ME about working more shifts. When I got hired, I told you my circumstances, I have an Ivy League workload - NO I CAN'T WORK MONDAY I need to do homework dammit. Stop guilt tripping me into adding more shifts.

    -STOP MAKING THIS SUCH A CHORE - You take all the fun out of it by forcing us to be here when we REALLY don't want to, are tired, sick, or whatever. I can't have a good time if I'm burnt out. If I cant have a good time, neither will your customers.

    -It's a 8 hour shift - let me take a fucking break when I need one. My feet hurt. I've been sitting here for 3 minutes, you DO NOT need me back on the floor right now.

    -Get off my back about my VIP or Champagne dances. I want to make money as bad as you do. Let me do it at my own pace - you'll get yours and I'll get mine. Damn.

    :::sigh::::

    I'm sorry if I sound like a brat - I just got off, I'm tired and irritable.
    But, can you guys tell me about my legal question above?

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    *applause*

    sorry I can't help with the legal question!

  3. #3
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    When they start hounding you to work more shifts and crap smile and tell them " I'm on top of that & I'll let you know" they'll shut up

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Playing devil's advocate from a greedy clubowner's perspective ... (please realize I do not agree with these positions, but am merely repeating my observations of what clubowners have said / done over the years)

    since at most clubs, we are not 'employees' by contract, but independent sub-contractors, that they cannot legally subject us to all the fines
    it's actually just the opposite. State Labor Laws prevent 'employees' from being fined. However, as independent contractors, clubowners are legally able to set any operating terms they wish ... including charging fines for 'non-performance' by the contractor, including charging 'rent of facilities' used by the contractor, etc. On the flip side, as an independent contractor, you are legally entitled to keep the money earned by your efforts (less fines and fees) ... whereas 'employees' legally transfer the fruits of their efforts to their 'employer' (meaning that a clubowner could legally keep 100% of private dance money, paying the dancer an hourly rate regardless of the number of private dances she sold and performed).

    -DO NOT treat dancers like toddlers. We are not all high school drop outs, crackheads, or whatever the hell - speak to us like intelligent adults. The condescension is MADDENING
    While intelligent, logical, responsible dancers are the norm at SW, they are certainly NOT the norm in the real world. For a fact in most dressing rooms clubowners can usually find a fair number of high school dropouts and a few crackheads. Therefore, a clubowner taking an official position which must register with all dancers has to connect with the lowest common denominator.

    -STOP BUGGING ME about working more shifts. When I got hired, I told you my circumstances, I have an Ivy League workload - NO I CAN'T WORK MONDAY I need to do homework dammit. Stop guilt tripping me into adding more shifts.
    As the clubowner, I have a business to run, and also have to maintain a modicum of fair treatment for all dancers at the club. Allowing you to 'cherry pick' thursdays, fridays and saturdays and avoid mondays, tuesdays and wednesdays is viewed as unfair favoritism by other dancers. I appreciate your college commitments, and am willing to work with you to a reasonable point, but you've got to be willing to work with me too.

    -STOP MAKING THIS SUCH A CHORE - You take all the fun out of it by forcing us to be here when we REALLY don't want to, are tired, sick, or whatever. I can't have a good time if I'm burnt out. If I cant have a good time, neither will your customers.
    As the clubowner, again I have a business to run. My customers can't have a good time if there are no dancers working ! I have to run the club in a manner that guarantees that dancers will be available when customers walk in, and also guarantees that I can pay the rent and utility bills. Allowing prima-donna girls to walk in and out whenever they feel like it just doesn't jive with achieving those goals.

    -It's a 8 hour shift - let me take a fucking break when I need one. My feet hurt. I've been sitting here for 3 minutes, you DO NOT need me back on the floor right now.
    As the clubowner, I have to set a consistent policy for all my dancers. Therefore if I allow you to 'take a break' whenever you feel like it, I also have to allow other dancers to do the same.

    -Get off my back about my VIP or Champagne dances. I want to make money as bad as you do. Let me do it at my own pace - you'll get yours and I'll get mine. Damn.
    Look, my club has the capacity and facilities for a certain number of dancers and a certain amount of customers. Therefore every dancer who is occupying a 'slot' in that limited capacity should be producing a certain amount of champagne room action i.e. income for the club. Creating a fine/quota structure for minimum champagne room action is the only way that I can allow 'unproductive' girls to keep working in my club and still pay the rent and utility bills.

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Quote Originally Posted by JadeLondon
    My club just put a suggestion box in the office and I want to leave them QUITE A FEW words...
    Well, no one likes the conditions you're describing. Anyone who's capable of doing the job well would rather have positive reinforcement and the appropriate amount of guidance/supervision than the heavy hand of punishment and micromanagement. So it's understandable where you're coming from.

    Nevertheless, my suggestion is to pick your battles; don't fight the whole war. In other words, I think a laundry list of items all at once will simply overwhelm anyone reading it and possibly bring a quick end to the suggestion box. Pick a couple of what you think are the most crucial things, word it constructively rather than negatively, and suggest a solution to the problem, not just the problem. Explain briefly how your suggested alternative would make you and the club more money. Even if your suggestion isn't feasible or you're way off base with your assumptions, it'll receive a warmer reception and be more likely to leave management with an open mind about soliciting further suggestions.

    My two pennies.

    -Ev

    Addendum: I almost forgot. Put a great big thank you in your message for the suggestion box! We like positive reinforcement, so whoever's idea that was should get some, too.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Do you have to write you name on the suggestion form? Also is this HBs? If it is and you like working there I wouldnt say anything. I know how the owner is. That place is run like a nazi camp.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Well done Melonie.. I was going to bring up the subcontractor info, but you have already done it and well, I might add.


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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Michele - not Heavenly Bodies, but the Skybox - a sister club.

    Wow.

    Well, I appreciate your feedback, but it certainly is MORE discouraging as I sit here with bruised knees and numb toes.

    So basically, I have to stand on my feet for 8 hours straight, work whenever they tell me to, sit, lay, rollover, fetch, and jump backwards through hoops. Fantastic.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    I guess if you can annonomously leave the suggestions , then go for it. I don't bother any more. For whatever reason, the club owners seem tho think that good dancers are a dime a dozen.

    I've worked in clubs like the one you described, not so heavy on the fines, but hard push to get more dances (read more fees), and the shifts were ungodly long (9.5 hours or more). I would just remind myself that there are a lot of clubs out there, and I can work where ever I want. If I am tired of the drama and crap at the club I just go somewhere else for while. I really can't stay productive for more then 7 hours these days, and a 5 hour shift is more to my liking.

    So give it a try with an annonmous note, and see if there are any changes in the rules. You never know.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    I can't say that I really expect a change - I don't even really know why they bother with a suggestion box.

    The turnover is INCREDIBLY high at this club. A lot of girls don't make it past their first night. At 3 weeks, I'm nearly a veteran. I've seen new girls come in almost everyday, and many I havent seen again.

    I just think if they want to keep good employees who are reliable, they should make sure they aren't disgruntled.

    And Paris, I don't know if you read any of my thread in the Newbie board about my hiring saga - I'm certainly not ready to venture off and try another club yet. Plus from what I've been reading, I'm not going to find anything much better in the Chicagoland area.

    And Melonie - I understand everything you're saying about being a business owner...but I KNOW these people are making bank. If I have learned anything from stripping it is OWN A STRIP CLUB. They hit you on everyside. $10 admission - drinks - $35 mandatory tip out, $50 house fee, $5 cut of every VIP dance, $50 cut of every champagne room dance.

    SO - maybe because I'm in a more financially independent state, or because I've taken some high level math courses, or I'm just more alert and intelligent.... I don't know - but when I see them making all this money, and then treating the dancers so inconsiderately - it pisses me off. Like I said, the above mentioned fees I'm OK with; and even they are high. But with those alone, these people are raking in a TON of money every night. I'm an entrepreneur, I come from a family of entrepreneurs, I know about business. And I know that the overhead for a place like this MUST pale in comparison to what they make in a night. They probably cover the expenses for an entire month of operation in one saturday night. So to add to that a ton of fines and rules and condescension and micromanagement and pressure, it's very aggravating.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    they are legally required to allow you a 30 minute break for a meal five hours into every eight hour shift...... and you might have a case if the "staying in the bathroom too long" fines are preventing you from accomplishing the tasks that god invented bathrooms for.......
    be the change you wish to see in the world....
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Actaually, because she is a IC, I don't think they have to allow her beans.

    Phooey on the big show clubs, I wll take my hole in the wall any day!


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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    No but being IC means that they don't get to dictate how she works - including her breaks. It's not just a convenient label - being an IC means you get certain advantages as well. It likely varies state to state, but and IC should be able to exercise considerably more independence in her work decisions than an employee. That means, for example, they do get to take breaks whenever they like and they can cherry pick their shifts. If it is inconvenient to the club owner - so what? The IC doesn't work for him. I realize that a suggestion box is unlikely to end illegal and unethical work practices that are often in place for reasons other than financial gain, though.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    I cant get over the house fees you get for that stuff.I never been to a club where you have to a certan number of couch dances a night. We just get house fees for getting in late or calling out.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Wow, I'm feeling bad enough in a night that I didn't get a VIP dance, and here comes management to rub it in my face, fine me for it, and ask me for more money that I don't have. Sheesh.

    My part of the country may not be a big money-maker, but I've never been fined for ANYTHING. I think if a manager tried to fine me for going to the dressing or bathroom to much, I would tell him, "Okay, I'll just change my tampon on the floor, then?"
    "This above all: to thine own self be true."

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    So what's the verdict? Independent contractors have more freedom, or less? I'm getting mixed response....

    Anyway, I'm calling off tomorrow.

    I was NOT originally scheduled for Monday.... because I have class on Tuesday morning and also homework I must do on Monday night. I was BEGGED to work Monday night, and eventually caved, but I can't do it. I just can't.

    Essentially, they ask me to take off early from my regular job to be there, to work a shift that will get me home at midnight at the EARLIEST to start my homework for the next day.

    When being hired, I expressly stated I could only work 3 shifts a week, and that was Wednesday Friday Saturday, and that I would have to take off select Fridays and Saturdays due to my OTHER occupation.

    Unlike many of the girls in my club, I actually have a plethora of other marketable life skills. And I do not want taking my clothes off and shaking my ass for men to hinder my life's other endeavors. I don't think that's unreasonable.

    Anyone that thinks it's OK to ask me to compromise my academic endeavors for stripping is out of their gourd.

    hence why I probably won't make it much farther
    I'm full to the brim of those dangerous things called thoughts and opinions

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    You sound like a clever girl - look up the elements on IC in your state, because it does vary. Generally IC's are owed fewer positive rights from their employers (for example, health coverage, overtime, a paycheck) but they get other benefits (setting their schedules, control of their product and pricing, etc.). In the stripperverse, though, IC doesn't have a lot of meaning. IC is a term that club owners and managers use to describe employees who pay their employers, and have no labour rights. The strippers in Cali had it all wrong - they shouldn't be going for employee status, they should have been making them pay heed to indie status. But, hey, nobody asked ME about this before they went and agitated.

    And - sidenote - your thoughts and opinions are good, and right. But this business is notoriously hard to change because it is made up of a vulnerable group that nobody cares about. People say it is all about money, but it's not - with a lot of the managers and owners it is about control - maintaining their own little private fiefdom, and they will gladly kiss away hundreds of dollars a week from a single dancer to keep it that way. So you really do have to consider whether it is worth your time and energy to try and change a business that, by nature, is almost impossible to change or just take what you can and run. Granted, that attitude is part of what makes it impossible to change, but, particularly if you are not a career stripper, you just can't justify the effort for the reward.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess colleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Jade, If I were you, wehn they ask you to work extra shifts, jsut smile and say, "Not this week," and leave it at that. Once they figure out that they can pester you into taking on extra shifts, and then collect a fee when you come to your senses and call off, they will do it to you continuously. Do not allow them!

    I have learned (the hard way) to keep my thoughts and opinions to myself. My manager always listens politiely to what I have to say, and then nothing ever changes.

    My advice is to have fun while you are there, do your best, and when your shift is over, walk away. Learn how to maximise your earnings while you are there, and consider it a learning experience. Then I would go over to Club O or Jimmys and apply there; maybe they are easier to get along with. Or maybe some clubs in Hammond.

    At any rate, if this is something you really want to do, then just bear in mind that the assinine management is just part of the deal, and you are best off to jsut work around it.


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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    The "Not this week" thing might work if they weren't like starved pirahnas

    I was asked about each day of the week - each day I said I could NOT work.

    She kept pushing, I tried to rearrange things in my mind to see if I COULD make one day work, every time I came up with an idea, the reason I can't do it swiftly followed.

    Finally, I said

    "It will make my week REALLY difficult if I take another shift. Essentially, I will have to take away from my study time or leave work early."

    she said... "Well, what about Monday 7-11?" and I finally conceded.

    But I cannot wake up tomorrow morning for class, go directly from class to work, leave work early to dance, dance till 11, get home at midnight, and expect to be able to do 6-9 hours of homework/reading. I'm at a University that would devour many Ivy League students. I don't play around.

    I know, I'm whining. I'm sorry.
    I'm going to deal until this tuition bill is paid and I have some money saved up, and then I'm done. I can't bite my tongue for very long.

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    God/dess colleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Well, if they would hire some more dancers, they could get their damn shifts covered without resorting to that. I volunteered my services--twice. Sheesh!

    I'm sorry it had to work out like that. Honestly, I thik once you can say you have some experience, you can move around to a less demanding club. If you feel like going slumming with me, I can get you in where I work. You would have to be in it for the money, not the galmour, however. PM me if you are interested.


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    When you perform... you are out of yourself--larger and more potent, more beautiful. You are for minutes heroic. This is power. This is glory on earth. And it is yours, nightly.

    --Agnes De Mille

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Quote Originally Posted by colleen
    Well, if they would hire some more dancers, they could get their damn shifts covered without resorting to that.
    They take in new dancers almost every day, but dancers quit every day. I've probably seen 6 or 7 new girls start since I've been there, and only about 1 or 2 come back for a 2nd night.

    There's probably 75-100 dancers on file as employed, there's about 50 in on a friday or saturday night.

    I think this is why they think it's OK to treat us like crap, because turnover is so ridiculously high.

    Fine them to death until they quit, get their money and take in the next poor girl.

    There's maybe 7-15 girls that have been there 'long-term' and even they get treated shady.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    ^ I hear you. When I was working at VIP's, we had sooooo many girls trying to get in after working at HB's...and they all complained of the same thing. The management sucked. One girl said that she had managed to rack up THOUSANDS of $$'s in fines and finally left cuz she was tired of getting fined for every little thing.

    There are so many other clubs in the city, Jade. Why don't you find another one? There are clubs that you can make money at without having to deal with the stupid-ass managers and having people pushing you to work more than you can really work.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    I don't know anything about fines...we don't have fines, just a house fee and the mandatory tipout to the dj and the doorman...sorry...lex
    "The body is meant to be seen, not all covered up."
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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    Venus is right. Try scores or vips. You will make more money and not have to put up with that crap. You can probably do alot less shifts and make more, especially with how intelligent you are. The businessmen would love you.

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    Default Re: Stuff THIS in your Suggestion Box

    If dancers organized, they would have a lot more control over their working conditions. Likely this will never happen, due to turnover among other personal characteristics. So the next best thing is to learn the relevant work laws in your state and city/county. Also know the IRS and your states' tax laws relevant to worker status - IC and employee. The IRS worker type designations are critical for the tax liability of a club. That's powerful stuff. for example the degree of control over workers is a HUGE factor in determining worker status, with the most control designating EMPLOYEE status.

    A lot more discussion of this topic appears in Dollar Den, though I believe there are a a few things that have not been discussed there.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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