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Thread: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

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    Featured Member noelle's Avatar
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    Default Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    http://www.komo4.com/stories/39557.htm

    SEATTLE - The City Council on Monday approved some of the strictest adult-entertainment regulations of any major city in the country. The council voted 5-to-4 to ban lap dances and restrict patrons from placing dollar bills in a dancer's G-string. Clubs also must have bright lighting, or what one council member likened to "Fred Meyer" lighting, a reference to the brightly lighted grocery and multi-department chain.

    Council members feared a rash of new cabarets after a federal judge struck down the city's 17-year moratorium on new strip clubs.

    Between 1986 and 1988, the number of cabarets in Seattle jumped from two to seven. Concerned residents persuaded the city to impose a 180-day moratorium, to keep the number where it was while officials studied the social effects of the clubs and whether zoning regulations were needed.

    Over the next two decades, the City Council repeatedly extended the moratorium as a way of avoiding the politically sensitive issue of deciding in which neighborhoods to allow strip clubs. The number of cabarets in the city fell to four. By contrast, Atlanta has roughly three dozen.

    Last year, a man who hoped to open a club downtown sued. U.S. District Judge James Robart sided with him last month, ruling the moratorium an unconstitutional restraint on free speech. The city could wind up paying the man millions of dollars in damages.

    In anticipation of the ruling, however, Democratic Mayor Greg Nickels came up with rules designed to make it easier to police strip clubs and to discourage new clubs from opening. The rules included requiring dancers to stay 4 feet from customers, barring the use of private rooms, barring customers from giving money directly to entertainers and increasing the minimum lighting.

    The rules would also make the entertainers employees of a club instead of private contractors, which the city believes will make it easier to go after club owners when violations occur. In Seattle, most dancers pay about $150 per shift for the privilege of dancing in the club, and keep what they make in fees and tips.

    Last year, about 197,000 people visited the city's clubs, not including the Lusty Lady peep show, generating $79,000 in admissions taxes.





    Absolutely ridiculous. Good thing I quit last month, but what are my friends from the club going to do now? Seattle was already bad enough before this.






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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Wow, how extreme. I suppose it will join Cincinnati as a stripper desert.

    I have a theory that the more a city tries to regulate the clubs, the more actual sex goes on in them--witness Seattle and Houston. Whereas in Portland, OR, where the clubs are allowed to operate freely, they're squeaky clean and mostly self-regulated (from what I have seen). I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but PDX has downright wholesome nudie bars. Then you go up to Seattle and though I have no firsthand knowledge of the clubs there, I have heard nothing but terrible things about them.

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    I'm pretty sure the no-contact thing in Portland IS a law. However, it's a no-contact-dancing law (enforceable, realistic) rather than a four-feet law (unenforceable, unrealistic) and furthermore I think what makes it so "keepable" is that strip clubs are NOT zoned -- they're allowed in all neighborhoods -- so there is a community standard that does not exist in other towns. :-)

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    There's another thread on this subject running in the Lounge. However, I wholeheartedly agree with Susan that history has more or less proven that anti-dance club ordinances generally make the clubs dirtier instead of cleaner. The problem stems from the severity of the legal penalties ... in other words potential reward versus potential risk. If violating an anti-dance club ordinance's contact/distance rule gets a dancer a misdemeanor charge in exchange for $20 lap dances until she is busted, but if violating a prostititution law gets a dancer a misdemeanor charge in exchange for $500 tips in the VIP room until she is busted, it doesn't take long for some girls to figure out that they can earn 20 times as much money in exchange for essentially the same legal risk and consequences.

    For dancers who want to continue working 'legally' under the new anti-dance club ordinance, on the one hand they will find a great deal of additional difficulty convincing club customers to part with significant amounts of money in exchange for a long distance private dance to start with. They will then find that club customers quickly spread the word amongst themselves in regard to which dancers are willing to 'bend' the law versus which dancers won't, as well as which girls are willing to 'bend' prostitution laws as well (since doing so really involves no extra legal risk or penalty if/when they are busted).

    This generally forces dancers trying to work 'legally' under the new anti-dance club ordinance to either move to a top shelf show club (assuming they are able to measure up to the top shelf club's hiring standards) which actually enforces the ordinance, or forces the dancers to start 'bending' the ordinance and/or prostitution laws and risk being busted in exchange for sufficient earnings potential to make dancing worthwhile versus a 'straight' job, or forces them out of the exotic dancing business due to lack of earnings potential.

    The real irony is that girls who choose to 'bend' prostitution laws and who are able to earn large amounts of money as a result, are actually LESS likely to endure nasty legal consequences than dancers who merely 'bend' anti-dance club ordinances but who earn significantly less money. The reason of course is that the girls who can afford to pony up say $5,000 for their own lawyer and file an appeal will often be found innocent, whereas girls who can't afford to mount their own legal defense generally wind up being stuck with a plea bargain and a black mark on their record.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-04-2005 at 07:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Wow, does that ever suck! Does it apply to any of the other cities (like tacoma)? If not, then it's probably no big deal- the clubs will just move.
    Hey, you guys can always come up here, lol.

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    Veteran Member Foxey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Yeah don't forget that Vancouver is only 2 hours north and the clubs there are about 50/50 on air dances vs. full friction. They all serve alcohol (except for the Paramount) and they are all full nude. So to Seattle custys, go hit No. 5 Orange and live it up!
    In a black light trance, then go go dance...

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward
    I have a theory that the more a city tries to regulate the clubs, the more actual sex goes on in them--witness Seattle and Houston. Whereas in Portland, OR, where the clubs are allowed to operate freely, they're squeaky clean and mostly self-regulated (from what I have seen).
    Your theory is absoultely correct. What I can never figure out of course, is why club owners don't bring this fact to the attention of local officials when they draft these ordinances up. Closing down facilities where "prurient" activities take place doesn't reduce demand for those activities. If you want to deter the ill effects prostitution has on public health, the best fix short of legalizing brothels, is to allow the public to engage in the next best thing.

    Its almost as if the local authorities' philosiphy is that stripping (or even outright hooking) is okay provided it isn't advertised at a fixed physical address.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Its almost as if the local authorities' philosiphy is that stripping (or even outright hooking) is okay provided it isn't advertised at a fixed physical address
    ... you've now learned enough to successfully run for public office !!! Of course it doesn't matter if high contact lap dances or prostitution or drug use is actually going on - as long as it is perceived by the majority of registered voters that these things are taking place illegally. There will always be criminal activity. However, if the local gov't officials can be perceived/portrayed as having officially 'condoned' any part of such behavior i.e. full contact lap dances being legal, then a certain very vocal segment of registered voters can then start to raise questions about those local politicians' moral and family values. And THAT my friends is what the local politicians want to avoid at all costs.

    In other words, the local politicians have to make a decision. They can cave to the 'bible thumper' element of the electorate, thus avoiding bad publicity, and as a result piss off the less than 1% of the population who is directly involved in the exotic dancing business. Or they can stand up for 'free speech' or whatever, let the 'strip clubs' operate as-is, take the resulting heat from the 'bible thumper' element in the local media, and jeopardize their own chances for re-election. Guess who is more expendable, a local preacher or a local 'stripper' ?

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    I believe that there needs to be a legal definition that a strip club provides entertainment not sexual services. There is a major difference. You can go on line and find dozens of sexual service providers, the city councils seem to have no problem. Why do they assume sexual services are provided in entertainment venues. Just another attempt to keep adults from enjoying themselves. IMO

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Taxes and SOB fees provide a nice income for a citys budget.

    I would like to see them try to recoup that from an independant Escort.

    Bottom line this taboo industry will always be around because there has always been a demand for it. I agree with the comments on regulations .

    "You want something more when it's taken away or restricted". Nobody likes the word NO or you can't. .

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Hey guys... Just a note about coming to Canada to dance from the US. You have to be really careful with human resources and customs. If it is found that you are going to another country to dance you can actually be barred from crossing the boarder. One of the dancers at the club I work at just went through it all.
    On the note about the laws... That is downright crazy. Its funny I hear about clubs with the 4 foot rule and I hear from dancers who dance there that guys will go as far as whipping coins at the dancers pussy. Yet here we have lap dances with full nudity and we also alow customers to get on stage with a $5 bill and lay down while the dancer tourtures the customer... And we have no problems with the 'fine line between dancing and prostitution'. Anyway im rambling and going no where with this post so i'll shush now.

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    All I can say is that if that are going to have this rule then they need to enforce it, enforce it aggressivley, and consistently, so they don't fall into the same trap that they did in Tampa after they enacted "six foot rule" To do otherwise would run the risk of having to hear about how it is "selective enforcement" and how then the rule itself is "unfair" which is normally what you here down there.

    A different way of saying it is, if there is a road that the speed limit has been lowered to 50 from 60 and you know that it is almost a certainty that you will get a speeding ticket for going 51, every time all the time, you will go 50. where as if you know you can normally get away with it you will probably still go 60 and take your chances.

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    Featured Member Krazyjane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Another one bites the dust...

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    Senior Member FL Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    Weird ?

    I posted a thread in here yesterday trying to start a discussion about distance laws and how they affect dancers, DJ etc living and or working in those areas.

    Where did it go? Was it moved ? Deleted ? Why ?

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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    If this is just in the city limits of Seattle, I can see all the clubs moving just outside of city limits.

    Is Sea-Tac it's own city? There are gobs of clubs there already, and I would have to assume that they won't be subject to the laws being outside of city limits.

    We shall see how this goes. They have 6 months to comply, so there is still time to fight this thing. Deja Vu owns several clubs in the area, and there is a Rick's as well. These are big businesses with big legal budgets.

    I'll keep an eye out on how the private party bookings go for the area, as well. I'm getting more and more calls from guys who want to have a "strip club atmosphere" but at their private location. I guess the company I work for will step up to the plate and provide just such a service. There is always a loophole, and so the shows will go on, just in a different way!


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    ^ Sea-Tac is its own city, but still in King County.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Veteran Member Lady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seattle City Council bans lap dances

    IF it iis as bad as it sounds, and with the fact that it is risky to go to canada, Seattle is going to have a tough time. Arkansas has very strict laws. I know of one club in the entire state that allows alchol and lap dances, and to be perfectly honest, I would not swear that the dances are legal, I think someone might be padding someone elses pocket. Litlle Rock is about two hours away from Memphis Tenn. Memphis is an everything goes city. I think the clubs have a deal with the city where the clubs run business however they like and every once in a while when Memphis wants to fix a road, they bust a few clubs, the clubs pay there fines, and then tomarrow they are back to normal. And I mean EVERYTHING goes.
    The clubs in litte Rock are doomed exept the one that allows dances. It has been a long time, maybe 2 yrs, since I have been there, things may have changed.
    All I can say is good luck to Seattle girls. If it all holds through, it will take a long time for the custies to adjust and you can probably forget making money anytime soon with out travel.
    ps, Spokane isnt that far is it? Maybe 5 hours? How strict is Spokane?

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