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Thread: Anyone know more about unions?

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    Veteran Member Phedre's Avatar
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    Anyone know more about unions?

    http://www.livenudegirlsunite.com/story.html

    Came across this and I thought I had seen some posts before about unions. Does anyone know more about them? The girls at my local clubs could surely use a union rep. so any info that some of you have would be great to pass on.
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I dunno if unions would be a good thing in this industry. I visited the peep show featured in this documentary, which is now unionized, and it was frightening. The women there were all old, fat, grizzled, and just plain scary looking - guess that's what happens when strippers get seniority.

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    We had a nice knock-down drag-out on this issue in SG a couple of months back. Take a look.

    http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53923
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Veteran Member Phedre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Yeah I knew about the class action suit. My best friend that I used to travel with worked there like 4 years ago. Is there anyone else out there that knows anything besides the suit in CA?
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

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    Senior Member FL Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    I dunno if unions would be a good thing in this industry. I visited the peep show featured in this documentary, which is now unionized, and it was frightening. The women there were all old, fat, grizzled, and just plain scary looking - guess that's what happens when strippers get seniority.
    Nah, that is just what you get in peep shows, most of the time anyway. I am sure there are exceptions but I have been told by countless men who say that peep show girls are scary looking.

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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I'm in a union and it sucks. They say this and do that. Unions are not all they crack up to be.
    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

  7. #7
    Cally
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Unions are brutal. Yea its nice if you get a 'wrongful dismissal' but if your on the bttom of the seniority list it bites. You get treated like trash. And I think it could be a bad thing for the SC world... All the 'dues' you have to pay and it makes managment very cranky.

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    Member WMassGuy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I hate unions. My first job was working for an A&P. For some reason they didn't take the dues out of paychecks every week, so, it felt like you were getting a bill for $50.00 every month.

    I think they're more of a pain in the ass than useful. Just my .10 worth.
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    Featured Member bikinigirl04's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    no matter what state, unions would mean we were employees, which means we'd get a paycheck instead of keeping our tips, which means we might as well work at mcdonalds. im not gonna get nekkid for minimum wage!
    Oh, I musta took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.


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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Unions are bad on a larger economic level also. Without getting too political, they basically wind up over-inflating wages and other related employer expenses to the point it's no longer cost effective for them to continue to maintain some or all of their business functions in that area/country. Among other things. Gone are the days when unions actually did something useful.

    But for my own selfish reasons, I don't want no stinkin stripper union! The day I have to be an employee and work for shit wages is the day I'll join the ranks of the corporately-fucked-with-clothes-ON.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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  11. #11
    Senior Member FL Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I just don't believe that dancers would end up working for min. wage because there is just too much proof of what kind of money the industry brings in and nothing anyone has said on the subject of a dancer union in the past has changed my mind on that either.

    But Phedre asked for info on unions not for all of us to go off on if unions would be good or bad for her area or club.

    I would suggest contacting SAG or AGMA and see if they can help or direct to the proper channels. Both deal with the entertainment industry and AGMA deals specificaly with stage/live performers.

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    Veteran Member Phedre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Thanks FL Dancer that is more what I was looking for, somewhere to start to look into them.
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I would be surprised if unions were viable in an area in which dancing is defined as independant contracting position. Like, unless you are employees (are like legally defined as such) I don't think you have standing to form a union.

    I think, myself, that if the quality of dancers and club treatment is mean to equalize itself in the context of independant contracting, it could do the precise same thing in the context of unionized employees - that is, club owners who are looking to do what DJ Rob mentioned (which I actually think has questionable legal standing) and automatically try to screw over the dancers as hard as they can to compensate for what they see as a loss of power, are likely not going to have dancers working there. I mean, how many of you ladies would work under the conditions that he sets out? Any? None? Those who do, are you going to give a full out good dance? Anyone? No? I, myself, am not a big fan of unionizing dancers (even though I think that the evils of it are kind of mischaracterized here) but I do think it would be neat if anyone were interested in holding club owners to legal and ethical behaviour, and dancers got either the benefits of being employees OR the benefits of being indies instead of getting fucked from both sides. The idea that there is no way to improve working conditions from the status quo because the Lusty Lady isn't a high earning place (it's a peep show! How much money could there be?) is silly.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Veteran Member Phedre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    it would be neat if anyone were interested in holding club owners to legal and ethical behaviour, and dancers got either the benefits of being employees OR the benefits of being indies instead of getting fucked from both sides.
    Thats why I was asking because I think it would be quite spectacular if the clubs nearest me had to treat their dancers better. I'm not one of them that needs it but I actually might go back to dancing in one of my hometown clubs if they had to treat their dancers better than they currently do. The housemom at one really needs a fcking slap in the face for some of the things she's done to some local dancers as well as road girls.
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

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    Curious Guest spoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    None of you even know what you are talking about.

    No one is trying to start a STIPPER UNION.

    The class action filed has nothing to do with forming a union.

    SECTION 2 PAGE 6

    By LAW dancers are not INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS this does not mean it changes anything concerning tips. NO CLUB CAN TOUCH YOUR TIPS PERIOD.
    It only means the club cannot charge house fees or make you tip the DJ.
    It also entiltles you to buy into the Clubs insurance policy gives you social security and workmans comp, and unemployment insurance.

    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Love when noobs come on telling everyone they don't know what they're talking about in their first post Yeah, you'll really be taken seriously like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    The actual financial history of the Lusty Lady after 'unionization' more or less speaks for itself.

    #1 - the club went bankrupt, ostensibly because of the original owners' inability to tap into dancers' tip money as a revenue stream versus the costs of providing hourly wages and unemployment & comp benefits, and because of a general lack of 'productivity' because dancers were paid the same whether or not they hustled / generated cash flow for the club

    #2 - the club was reopened as an 'employee owned' business, with the 'employee' dancers agreeing to accept a substantial hourly pay cut in order for the club to operate in the black.

    #3 - the club eventually (re)instituted an 'incentive' pay plan such that the better/more popular dancers were able to earn more than the marginal dancers when they actually sold more 'sessions' to club customers.

    #4 - the vast majority of 'hot' dancers left the club, ostensively because they didn't want to sacrifice a huge percentage of the cash flow they were generating in order to fund the hourly paychecks and benefits of other dancers who were contributing far less cash flow.

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    Veteran Member lwtex52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Love when noobs come on telling everyone they don't know what they're talking about in their first post Yeah, you'll really be taken seriously like that.
    But it's true. I DON'T know what I'm talking about.
    My latest conspiracy theory: I am convinced that Dick Cheney is, in reality, Elmer Fudd.

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    #3 - the club eventually (re)instituted an 'incentive' pay plan such that the better/more popular dancers were able to earn more than the marginal dancers when they actually sold more 'sessions' to club customers.

    #4 - the vast majority of 'hot' dancers left the club, ostensively because they didn't want to sacrifice a huge percentage of the cash flow they were generating in order to fund the hourly paychecks and benefits of other dancers who were contributing far less cash flow.
    Well, that doesn't make any sense. #3 should prevent #4 if it's done right. As a matter of fact, I don't see why you couldn't have a successful employment model in which all dancers got paid a lower-than-minimum-wage hourly wage (much like wait staff at restaurants) that is supplemented by tips to such a large degree that it would be tantamount to being a totally tip-driven system, thereby only the best hustling dancers would survive, just like they do now. Lots of jobs are hugely commission driven, even though staff are employees.

    Practically speaking, it's not going to happen unless the government enforces the law in a way that forces it to happen. But everytime we have this discussion, there's all this talk that employee status has to lead to financial collapse. I'm just sayin', if the club would set it up to mimic the current model of rewarding the highest-yielding performers, the club could comply without it being the ruination of the hardest working dancers.

    -Ev

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by bikinigirl04
    no matter what state, unions would mean we were employees, which means we'd get a paycheck instead of keeping our tips, which means we might as well work at mcdonalds. im not gonna get nekkid for minimum wage!
    No, we wouldn't need to be employees to have a union, or more precisely, to have a "guild." The Screen Actors Guild (SAG) represents actors, and they're just as much independent contractors as we are. And actors aren't getting paid McDonalds wages.

    -Ev

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    God/dess Gynger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    I used to work Labor Relations for Albertson's, mainly, I dealt with all the Union crap... It sucks... don't ever want to ever touch another union anything ever again... they are complicated, they are over rated and quite honestly, there is truly no need for them anymore in my opinion.


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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    The actual financial history of the Lusty Lady after 'unionization' more or less speaks for itself.
    Hehe.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Well, that doesn't make any sense. #3 should prevent #4 if it's done right.
    Not if you think this through all the way. Under #3, 100% of the cash flow generated by dancers selling 'sessions' (or substitute private dances or VIP trips or whatever) goes to the club, with the dancer earning nothing extra if she does one private session per shift versus ten. Under #4, say 50% of the cash flow generated by dancers selling 'sessions' goes to the club, with 50% going to the dancer, which provides some incentive for individual dancers to sell more private sessions. But neither of these options can compete with a non-union club which allows private contractor dancers to keep 100% of their private session cash, less having to pay a stage fee.

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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    Greetings Ladies,

    Forgive the length of this post. This is my first post and no, I am not trolling. It's just that this topic is a very serious one and I am moved to give my two cents worth.

    I am a labor relations professional of 15 years and must agree with those have reservations about bringing a union into your club, or your industry. A union can (not always successful) increase wages and improve the work environment when they initially "unionize a shop". That works for a while, until the club owners must then inflate prices to cover their payroll expenses. Which, in many cases will.

    The dues, from my union experience, are oftentimes used to fund unnecessary travel expenses of your business agent, their meals out, any time they consider to be part of their job as your BA. Of course, unions are a business too, and they have plenty of administrative expenses as well. Their goal, like that of the club, is to MAKE MONEY. And they make it off of your hard-working backs.

    One of the more unsettling aspects of working in a union "shop" is that you agree to strike whenever your union determines a strike. This of course is voted on by the members, but in 99% of the cases, the only members that bother voting or attending meetings are the "squeaky wheels". The ones with seniority that won't play fair and know the union will back them anyway because they have seniority. There is always the possibility that (especially during contract negotiation time and when the president is running for office) that the union calls a strike at another company or club in this instance, and you are then required to strike also. Remember, your "strike fund" typically will pay you a small stipend sometimes of about $50 a day. I don't know many people who can live on that. If you choose to work in spite of a strike, your life will be made a living hell by the other union members.

    Bear in mind, strip clubs also must comply with state and federal labor laws and by all means, if your club is breaking any of those laws, a simple phone call to your local Department of Labor will clarify any questions you might have and they would be happy to take your complaint. NO BUSINESS wants the Department of Labor breathing down their neck and looking into their records.

    Please, please, please, if you actually reach the point of talking to a union organizer, continue to listen to the voice in your head that says, "He/she is only trying to sell me something." Because that's what they do. They will sell you a field of dreams and promise you the moon (it's completely legal), and will deliver very little job satisfaction.

    Remember, above all else, and fairness and right-ness aside, seniority (or in layman's terms, the ones who have worked at the club the longest, even by a day) seniority always rules.

    You can improve working conditions, pay, etc., by simply banding together and demand improvement or boycott the club for a couple of nights. $ talks. A drop in the club revenue just might get the management's attention. But be organized about it, be professional, and put your demands/requests in writing. Organize a professional meeting where your busy club owners actually find value in what you have to say and hear your legitimate complaints. Do not make it a whine-fest. They'll tune you out completely. And be reasonable in your requests. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, or the owners who provides you the space to make your money and you might find them to be reasonable business owners.

    Best of luck.

  25. #25
    Senior Member FL Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know more about unions?

    ^ THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is really great to get a professionals advice and experience on this subject and I am pretty sure your responce is more in line with the information that Phedre was seeking when she began this topic.

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