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Thread: Have a question about a former dancer

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    Default Have a question about a former dancer

    Hi guys,

    I’m new to this board, so I hope this post is in the right forum and not offensive. Like the heading says I recently married someone who used to dance and I’m having some questions.

    A little history; she danced at a club that was cabriolet (?sp) style club (costumes, topless, no table, pole, or lap dances allowed, no splits, and formal evening wear when not on stage.) from 18 until she was 20 (She’s just over 40 now). During that time she started working as a Fem-Dom (Dom-fem ? BDSM) on the side with a friend from the club she worked. She says she liked it because she was able to earn money without touching anybody or anybody touching her (as she put it, “It kept me ‘clean’ in a sense.”) It was at the club she met her first husband. Prior to that she had a few relationships that were abusive or the guys cheated on her. From the time she got married (when she was 20 years old) until he recently died, she spent the last 20 years as mother, wife, homemaker. Never cheated on him nor had any further interest in dancing. Although she tells me her husband was a good provider but very distant, and bearly noticed she was around. He was heavy into porn and they would watch together. (I asked if it bothered her and she said no because she knew they were paid to entertain her). From what she says, her father also was a hard ass and was very cruel to her and her mother (Not sexual, just a nasty and mean). She was widowed for a few years and continued to raise her children alone until we met.

    Me; I was raise in a typical white bread house. Mom and dad loved each other deeply and they were there for me. Sex wasn’t dirty, it just wasn’t ever talked about. At 18 I used to go to clubs every then and again. At that age I was thinking (or more realistically hoping), that all dancers were sex addicts and that maybe someday I’d get lucky with one. Sorry, but at 18 that’s how my mind worked, and for the next 25 years that’s what I thought. Anyway, I got married at 24 to some one who also was raise in a very stable, plain vanilla household (She was a college student, not a dancer). We started to raise our kids in typical suburban bliss until she died. Sex was pretty basic and only on occasion. I never cheated, didn’t flirt with other women, didn’t go to any clubs after marriage, just a regular guy.

    So my new wife has seen and done things that to me were only part of a fantasy world unknown to me. What’s confusing me, scaring me, and has me all mixed up is that she is very comfortable with sex, her body, and how she talks about it, very straightforward about her body and mine. When we are alone, she’ll talk about how she needs “some cock” (Never says my cock, just “some cock”), about how her “pussy” has an itch, yet it’s somehow very mechanical in tone when she does. But when we have sex it’s like she’s having great sex and I’m just there. She seems to be experiencing it to the fullest, whereas I feel like she has the feeling I can get whatever I can while I’m there, but that’s up to me. She doesn’t touch me other than to pull me in deeper. It’s starting to bother me, because I don’t want to feel like I’m just using her (You know, I got mine you get yours.)

    Sometimes she’ll start to do a dance (grind? Swaying her hips and sticking her butt out, or drop to a squat and slowly rise up), but then she’ll start to giggle or laugh. I asked her once why she was laughing (I didn’t know if she was laughing because she knew that it turned guys on to see that. I started to think she was playing me, like I was just another customer or something) but she said she was laughing because of the shape her old body was in. But that got me thinking, was she dancing for me, to turn me on, or was she just doing “what guys like”? As in, she wasn’t doing it for me the person, but she was doing it because she knows the affect on males to see such things [ A side note: It’s hard for a guy to stay aroused when the girl is laughing at what’s going on]

    So, does being a dancer, seeing the things you do, meeting all types of guys at the clubs (from the nicest to the creepiest), does that somehow put up a wall between you and all men? Does it make a dancer see all men as “things”, creatures if you will? Does the life experiences as a dancer forever put that distance, or doubt, between you and all men, or do you think it’s just the men that she’s met, or been with, that has caused her to be somewhat detached in the area of sharing sex vs having sex. Or do you think it’s me? Maybe I’m the one not seeing things right. Maybe knowing her past is causing a mental conflict in me. There she is, a bit crass at times, and I’m thinking all kinds of slutty sex is about to take place, but instead there is a woman who is mother, friend, and wife who enjoys sex but doesn’t want to take it to the point of some of what she’s seen and maybe I wish she would?

    If you think it’s me, tell me. If you think it’s from dancing and her Fem-dom days, what do I do? I can’t really go to her and say “honey, touch me while we’re having sex or I’ll think you are just using me” or “love, forget all the crap you went through. You can trust that I love you and will not hurt you” Do you think it’s a question of time between she and I? Could it be that she’s trying to start a new life, in “typical suburban bliss”, where the guy is not a complete ass, and I need to give it time? We’ve been together about a year now. Am I not seeing things right? Is there something that I need to understand about what happens inside a person when a person has danced. Am I being a jerk to even ask? We get along great outside the bedroom, and even there it’s pretty good (nothing has been off limits so far) except for this feeling I have that she is keeping some distance or barrier between she and me. I love her deeply and want to build my future with her, share my life with her, grow old with her, I’m saddened by what she has gone through (Maybe I shouldn’t be sad, maybe that’s the problem), but I’ve hit this strange stumbling block and I’m at a loss.

    Anyway, any thoughts (good, bad, or otherwise) or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. And if I’ve offended, I am sorry, but tell me how it offended, maybe there could be my answer.

    Again thanks.

  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Sounds like you have it in your head somewhere that women don't enjoy sex unless something is wrong with them. Let go of that. It sounds like she's just a sexual person who lets go and gets into it, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that. Now you just need to learn to let go and get into it too!

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    The two of you need to work this out in the here and now. Her past occupation may have something to do with what is going on between the two of you or it may not. Dancing is a job that effects all women and their eventual partners differently. The bottom line is you can't undue any of that. You have to deal with the present, not the past.
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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Wow, it sounds like you are pretty torn up about this. I think maybe she puts up a wall between her feelings for sex and the act of it because of her past with being in a cold relationships. It isn't really a wall between you and her.

    I think the only way you can feel better about it is to bring it up to her that you love her and want her to feel secure and connected to you when your having sex.

    Sometimes when women go thru negative situations with men like having a cold or distant relationship they learn to get off for themselves and that the act of sex is not attatched to their feelings about it. A lot of women maintain that seperation because it protects them from feeling more than they want to emotionally handle. I don't think it's her past in SM as much as it is her past in an un-emotional relationship. She seems like she is trying to flirt with you with the booty bump thing so I would use those moments to make a physical connection with her. Let her know that you are wanting to be there to fulfill her emotional needs as well and that you want to feel the physical and emotional oneness of sex with her. I hope this helps.

    I was in a relationship that was emotionally distant yet it was more unspoken that "if we were having sex then we had a good relationship" even tho that wasn't the case and I ended up seperating emotions from sex only to maintain my own distance so I couldn't be hurt. Kind of like saying that sex=love, when you are with someone that doesn't put their emotional love into sex with you you keep having sex because that is the only connection you are having. I don't think she means to do it with you but that is how it probably was for her for 20 years, so she is just continuing her pattern.
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

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    Veteran Member Phedre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    To be very clear, I do not think her dancing past has ANYTHING to do with the problem at hand. It was probably 20 years of being in an emotionally distant relationship.
    Phedre
    ~ my very own pole dancer!

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by tobor219
    If you think it’s me, tell me.
    Dude. It's you.

    Okay, sorry, that was the glib answer. Now I'll try and give the thoughtful answer. You've gotten good responses so far, and I especially agree with Phedre and Yekhefeh.

    But overall, I'm quite confused.

    What’s confusing me, scaring me, and has me all mixed up is that she is very comfortable with sex, her body, and how she talks about it, very straightforward about her body and mine.
    Okay, please forgive me for being dense here, but what exactly is the problem with that????? Most guys are thrilled to encounter a woman who is comfortable with sex and with her body. They're generally happy to have a partner who wants sex more frequently than "on occasion." Even better if she's interested in sex that goes beyond "basic."

    I'm really not understanding how her healthy attitude toward sex is making you feel confused and scared. Is it what Yekhefeh said, and you think that women who actually enjoy sex must be damaged in some way? Is it just that she has a higher sex drive than you do, and you feel she's too demanding in this area? Or is it the things you mention in the next few sentences? For example:

    When we are alone, she’ll talk about how she needs “some cock” (Never says my cock, just “some cock”), about how her “pussy” has an itch, yet it’s somehow very mechanical in tone when she does.
    Okay. Is it the crude language that freaks you out? Maybe you're not used to women who talk about sex and the associated anatomy in vulgar terms? Maybe it makes you think, again, that there is something a little bit wrong with her? OR, is it the "mechanical tone" you describe that upsets you? Do you feel that sex, for her, is a purely physical experience, while you would rather that it be more of an intense emotional or "spiritual" connection? I think it probably is difficult for people who are at opposite ends of this spectrum to have a really fulfilling sex life...but not impossible.

    But when we have sex it’s like she’s having great sex and I’m just there. She seems to be experiencing it to the fullest, whereas I feel like she has the feeling I can get whatever I can while I’m there, but that’s up to me.
    Again...most guys, in my experience, are happy to find a woman who has a great time in bed, who knows what she likes and goes for the gusto without putting all the responsiblity for her pleasure/orgasm/general fulfillment on the shoulders of her partner.

    Women are often told that they need to be responsible for their own pleasure. It's a fairly healthy sexual m.o., IMHO.

    Are you enjoying the sex yourself? Do you even think it's okay to enjoy sex? (Okay for a woman? Okay for a man?) If you know she's enjoying it, why not just let yourself "get what you can while you're there"? Do you feel that would be somehow disrespectful to her? Did you enjoy sex with your wife? It sounds like you don't have a terribly high sex drive....I really think you should explore the ways in which you've repressed your sexuality.

    She doesn’t touch me other than to pull me in deeper. It’s starting to bother me, because I don’t want to feel like I’m just using her (You know, I got mine you get yours.)
    Is she affectionate outside the bedroom? Are you? Some people just aren't...Based on what you've said about her father and her husband, I wouldn't be surprised if she's just not accustomed to expressing affection in general. Does the lack of physical affection bother you at other times, or just during sex?

    Are you sure that you're worried about "using" her??? I mean, really, she's your wife, for god's sake. She's not some chick you picked up in a bar, and this isn't a one-night stand. Do you feel like she's just using your body to get herself off? Is that what's bothering you? Do you feel like she's using you in other ways, and the sexual relationship is representative/symbolic of that?

    I started to think she was playing me, like I was just another customer or something)
    Dude. She hasn't been a dancer for twenty years! And even then she only did it for a couple years. Do you really think that once a woman has worked as a dancer, she can no longer see men as anything other than customers? You're really being kinda ridiculous here.

    But that got me thinking, was she dancing for me, to turn me on, or was she just doing “what guys like”? As in, she wasn’t doing it for me the person, but she was doing it because she knows the affect on males to see such things [ A side note: It’s hard for a guy to stay aroused when the girl is laughing at what’s going on]
    Okay, can I just say that you are waaaayyyyy overthinking this whole thing? It sounds to me like she's a woman who's comfortable with her body and enjoys being sexual. Again, I fail to see why this is a problem. She was being flirty and cute, probably wanting to get you fired up so she could get "some cock". Maybe you think this isn't a "proper" way for a wife to behave?

    So, does being a dancer, seeing the things you do, meeting all types of guys at the clubs (from the nicest to the creepiest), does that somehow put up a wall between you and all men?
    No. You clearly have some very profound misconceptions about this...

    Does it make a dancer see all men as “things”, creatures if you will?
    Another very emphatic no.

    I'll admit that to some extent I "objectified" customers when I was working, just as they "objectified" me when they encountered me in my stripper role.

    What I mean by this is that we both tended to view one another as you might view a "flat character" in a novel. You don't really bother to wonder about the full emotional life of that character. It's not negative or positive, necessarily, it's just a matter of focusing more on the purpose that the person (or character) in question is currently serving in your life (or in the novel), rather than making an effort to comprehend that individual as a well-rounded complex person.

    But this only happened at work. It's not like I expanded that view of customers as "flat characters" to encompass all men. Outside of work, I am fully capable of viewing people (male or female) as full, complex human beings. I can't really imagine why you would assume otherwise. It's really not that bad to dance naked for men. Most of the time, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

    Does the life experiences as a dancer forever put that distance, or doubt, between you and all men
    Nope.

    or do you think it’s just the men that she’s met, or been with, that has caused her to be somewhat detached in the area of sharing sex vs having sex.
    I think, as Phedre said, that this is the far more likely scenario. But I'm not sure what you mean by "sharing sex vs. having sex."

    Or do you think it’s me?
    Kinda.

    Maybe knowing her past is causing a mental conflict in me. There she is, a bit crass at times, and I’m thinking all kinds of slutty sex is about to take place, but instead there is a woman who is mother, friend, and wife who enjoys sex but doesn’t want to take it to the point of some of what she’s seen and maybe I wish she would?
    Okay, now I'm REALLY confused! I thought you just said that the whole problem with your sex life is that she seems too slutty for you? Would you really want slutty sex? From what you've said so far, I'm guessing that if she broke out the fetish gear and the strap-on, you'd run for the hills...Am I wrong? What would you consider "slutty sex"?

    Are you really just having a madonna/whore problem here? Have you bought so thoroughly into that whole notion that women can be either "nice" or sexual (but definitely not both!) that you're just having terrible trouble reconciling the idea of this woman as your wife and a good mom, etc. with the idea of this woman as a one-time sex worker?

    If you think it’s me, tell me.
    I did.

    If you think it’s from dancing and her Fem-dom days, what do I do?
    I don't, BUT, it is weighing so heavily on your mind that you need to do something to resolve the issue for yourself. I'd tell you to "JUST GET OVER IT!" but I guess it's probably more complicated than that for you.

    I can’t really go to her and say “honey, touch me while we’re having sex or I’ll think you are just using me”
    Again, she's your wife. I think that automatically disqualifies her from the "using you just for sex" category...

    or “love, forget all the crap you went through. You can trust that I love you and will not hurt you”
    I don't see anything wrong with saying that. She might not hear you the first million times, and I'm sure she has her reasons for keeping her defenses up (like, maybe you will hurt her someday. How can you guarantee that you never will? For all I know, you might be hurting her by making these assumptions about how her past experiences have influenced her sexuality.)

    I’m saddened by what she has gone through (Maybe I shouldn’t be sad, maybe that’s the problem),
    Maybe it is. What exactly are you so sad about? Her unfulfilling relationship with her husband, or the fact that she worked as a dancer and a dominatrix a very long time ago? If it's the latter, I really wouldn't bother. Getting paid to kick men in the nuts is hardly a terrible tragedy for most women. (Sorry.) Seriously, it's not like she was a teenage runaway who ended up as a smack-addled street whore with an evil pimp or something. That you could feel sad about. But if all she ever did was work in a no-contact cabaret club for two years a couple decades ago....what's the big freakin' deal????

    [Okay, I'm seriously gonna shut up now. I have no idea why I just wrote 12 million words in response to this post....]
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    I was going to write a long response to this post--which seems like one big long trick question--but Nic hammered all the points I was going to make and did so in her classically efficient and insightful fashion.

    <S> Nic

    Bottom line, if you can't handle fucking a filthy little gutter slut and appreciating what she's bringing to the table with her particular bent on sexuality, it's time for you to move on and find a civilian prude.

    And who gets married after only a year? Like you didn't see all this coming before?
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Have you said these things to her? I'm of the opinion that a truly loving relationship requires nearly complete, and definitely fully honest, communications. Maybe you should show her this thread.

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    -
    Thanks everyone, both the insight in the responses, and the much needed slap accross the head. I guess I lost perpective about what is really important.

    Nic- thanks. I was way over thinking things and tweaking big time

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Seems to me she has separated lust from love by her past marital experience. Perhaps if you helped her to awaken her affectionate side, or at least recognize yours, you would be happier. Lots of men would envy your wife's sexuality; it would be good not to discourage that. Some marriage counseling might be a good preventative for you two to better accept and love each other's differences.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Tobor,

    Speaking from my own persepctive and experiences only...

    Yes, there is a problem. I say this because in a solid relationship, if one partner or the other feels there's a problem, no matter how big and serious or small and silly, it needs to be addressed. Period.

    Stripping didn't likely do anything to her head. FemDom work likely didn't do anything to her head. The stripping was probably an expression of her sexuality and desire for income, on some level. The FemDom work could have been an expression of sexuality, but also very well have been some extension of whatever personal issues she had as a result of her upbringing (hey, I've been there, trust me, it's VERY possible).

    But I'm going to have to concur that the bulk of the disconnection she's demonstrating between intimacy and mechanics likely stems from her nice long marriage to Mr. Distant. But... that marriage to Mr. Distant most likely has roots grounded in her upbringing, you follow? So what you have is a lifelong pattern that she has witnessed or experienced of negative / distant male behaviours. That will *definitely* give rise to the potential for developing a disconnect between intimacy and mechanics. It's a defense mechanism, and frequently is not an intentional or conscious thing, and it can be rather difficult to overcome.

    Suggestions?

    1. Love and accept her as she is. It's okay to expect things might be even better if certain quirks change. But DON'T expect them to change, nor base your relationship on any such expectation. 40 years of life is 40 years of learned habits, and those habits can be hard to break.

    2. Talk to her. Calmly, patiently, lovingly, with a definite and obvious desire to understand. Don't just hear what she says, actually LISTEN. Ask her questions, let her speak, but make sure you use good timing for this. Before, during, or after sex is not the time, and neither is any time when she's having a bad (hair) day. Be sensitive. And don't expect to have it all come out in one shot... this is something that takes time. Sometimes a lot of it. And be sure that when you express your side, that you use "I" statements, carefully choose your words so that they in NO WAY sound like criticism or blame, and make sure that you express them as concerns and a desire to improve your relationship.

    3. Understand that ex-stripper or not, having a few kids does a number on the body for most women. And those of us who experience the most dramatic physical changes after childbearing, sometimes take it the hardest. (Again, trust me, I know about this one first hand). It can have a negative impact on a woman's psyche to go from being "hardbody hottie" to "muumuu-wearing mummy". And as you get older, your body tends to display that age more and more... so a woman may feel the desire to display herself to her partner in the way she once would have as a hardbody, and then instantly censor herself based on her current appearance. There is also the post-childbearing "dignified wives and mothers just don't act like this" thing, or what is also commonly referred to as Madonna-Whore Syndrome. In this particular situation, you may have a ravingly-insatiable sex kitten of an almost illegal nature waiting to pounce upon you, but it gets held on a tight leash because it just wouldn't be proper. Tips? Don't EVER criticize her appearance or sexuality in any way, give her lots of sincere compliments (including during sex!), be physically affectionate with her, and COMMUNICATE about things you might like to try or that you enjoyed doing. The key here is making her feel confident, secure, and desirable.

    4. If all else fails, consider a couples retreat or couples counselling. It sounds hokey, but it can sometimes do wonders but opening up lines of communication that may have been previously blocked. This is important, because sometimes women who have had witnessed the negative relationships, and experienced them, develop problems with fully open communication - open communication can subconsciously be viewed as one of the riskiest ways of opening oneself up to potentially being hurt.

    Hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck with your lady! May you have many happy years together.

    ~~McCain

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    Dude. It's you.
    My most beautiful girl, you are so right. It is so him.

    His new wife is a fantastic, erotic, scintillating joy, a wonderful, enthralling discovery. She's a living, breathing chance at liberation, an opportunity to escape white-bread, brain-dead, soul-draining conformity.

    Dude, my best advice to you is to hang on to this new woman of yours with every last ounce of strength you can muster. Trust me on this. You really need her.

    Every time you are tempted to over-analyze her past, have a drink. It will pass. And you will be a better man for it.

    You can deny, resist, acknowledge or embrace your dark side. It sounds like you've lived most of your life in some form of resistance or denial in relation to that side. If you are a man of solid character, though, you can handle embracing your dark side. In many ways it can empower you. It will not overwhelm you. I know that runs counter to everything you've ever been told your whole life, but that's just because the people who have been telling you that fear losing power over you. You do not need them. At all.

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    Veteran Member vegasbebe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    It's you, sorry pal.

    What really baffles me here is how the hell you ended up marrying this woman while you were secretly harboring all these deep seeded thoughts about her. It sounds like on the inside you really believe your wife, who is supposed to be sacred to you, is some little skank who's done dirty nasty things and needs to take a shower.

    What the hell is that?

    I don't really think there's anything wrong with your wife saying, "I need some cock." Big deal. Or the fact that she uses the term "pussy."

    I think you maybe should have married somebody a little bit prissier than your wife, but honestly, I think the problem here lies in you.

    And for fuck's sake, what's up with you saying, "Is she just trying to start a new life in suburban bliss?" as if you rescued her from the streets or some crap?

    You have to stop judging her and thinking about her like that, or your relationship will be forever fucked.

    You see her as some poor little abused thing who needs taking care of, and she's most likely a strong independent woman who is your equal in every way.

    And right now, who knows, maybe she's contemplating the fucked up things you've seen in your life that make you act this way.

    Just a thought.

    Two words:

    MARRIAGE COUNSELING

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    Default Re: Have a question about a former dancer

    hey guys

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