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Thread: Do we have any rights?

  1. #1
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Sad Do we have any rights?

    Hello! All

    Tonight, when I was dancing on the stage, I saw one guy sitting infront of the stage had digital camera on. Camera lens was on and it was obvious that he was taking pictures.

    I got off the stage right away and ask him to show me his camera but he refused. I asked bouncers to ask him to show his camera and he refused again.
    All the bouncers and management could do was let him leave the club.

    I was about call the cops on him and bouncer and manager was not able to hold him in a club.

    After all, he left with his picture on me on the stage naked. I am so mad and I am afraid that he will put the pictures on the internet.

    I am so frustrated that my rights are violated. Sure. I gave permission to look at me naked on the stage but I never consent to picture taken or used in anyway.

    Do we have any right as a dancer?

    I am so sad and mad at the same time.

    Please give me your advice.

  2. #2
    buffie06
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    At my old club they would take the camera or phone and delete all the pics before kicking him out. There were signs everywhere that said no cameras. I assumed it was the same everywhere. Sucks that they didn't take up for you better, but I am now in a big city club and feel it would be the same way here.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    I'm sorry, but I don't think you have any recourse in this situation until the images do surface on the internet. If he just uses the photos in his own personal collection there is nothing in the law that forbids us to take pictures of anyone or anything in a public situation. If that were the case, then the people who were caught because of surveillance cameras in the act of crimes, would have the final say so in the outcome of the pictures. There would be no point in having surveillance cameras if the person photograghed could demand sole possesion of his images.

    On the flip side I could go on for hours how government is data mining us, and your photos describing you as a stripper are already out there. Do you have a license? Then some one somewhere probably has a dossier on you as being an exotic dancer.

    Just because I'm paraniod, doesn't mean that they aren't after me.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    This is a gray area, legally speaking. First question is whether you agreed to a photo release waiver as part of the job application you filled out when you were hired at the club - if so then in effect the club owns the rights to any and all pictures taken of you inside the club, and can choose to give away pictures / allow customers to take pictures for free / even use your pictures for profit on a club website (without paying you extra).

    Second question is whether or not the club has posted signs stating a no photographs policy towards customers. If there is no such officially posted policy, then given that the club is a 'public venue', customers have the same rights to 'fair use' of pictures taken ... the same as if the stage were a public beach. 'Fair use' does not allow any pictures of you taken in the club or on a public beach to be used for profit without your knowledge and consent, but it does not prevent non-profit uses ... with internet posting on free websites probably qualifying as 'fair use'.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Okay, I just did about half an hour of research on the web and came up with this:
    http://www.gop.gov/Committeecentral/bills/s1301.asp

    It is called the Video Voyuerism Protection Act.

    You can probably print out a copy of this law and force the hand of the club to enforce that the customers not take any photos of you while working. You would think that someone visiting a strip club or working in a strip club would have the same reasonable expectation of privacy as one who is in a public locker room. People don't want their photo taken when visiting the doctor, or other potentially embarassing situation. I think Strip clubs and other "adult" businesses would fall into tht category.

    However I have a feeling that someone can snap as many photos as they want of the patrons entering and leaving any such building w/o any reprecussions.

    This bill was passed in September 2004.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


  6. #6
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Thanks all you ladies.

    paris. I am in Canada and I also did some research find some site.

  7. #7
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    It is called the Video Voyuerism Protection Act.

    You can probably print out a copy of this law and force the hand of the club to enforce that the customers not take any photos of you while working. You would think that someone visiting a strip club or working in a strip club would have the same reasonable expectation of privacy as one who is in a public locker room. People don't want their photo taken when visiting the doctor, or other potentially embarassing situation. I think Strip clubs and other "adult" businesses would fall into tht category.
    I'll certainly defer to more expert advice, but IMHO there is a world of difference between a girl being clandestinely photographed while nude in a doctor's office exam room or in the women's locker room of a health club, versus being clandestinely photographed while performing nude on stage in a 'public venue' which caters to men. The former clearly imply a reasonable expectation of privacy, while the latter clearly implies a willing 'public' performance where expectations of privacy are questionable at best.


    I am in Canada and I also did some research find some site.
    By my read, at the moment Canadian law does NOT provide any anti-voyeurism protections, as the hearing process towards eventually drafting and voting on such a law are still in progress.

    According to the 'submissions', the Canadian material is also centering on 'violation of privacy' as a defining factor ... which would logically raise the same question as above regarding whether a girl who willingly performs nude in a 'public venue' like a club does in fact have any reasonable expectation of privacy. US entertainment lawyers are generally of the opinion that whenever a 'public performance before a paying audience' is involved, the issues stop being personal (i.e. privacy) and start being business (i.e. unauthorized use of images for profit).

    Yhus if clandestine images of club dancers performing on stage are NOT used for profit by a third party, the available paths for legal recourse are extremely limited. The only clear exception would be a publicly posted policy of 'no photographs allowed' by the club, which customers essentially agree to when they pay their cover charge/enter the club. Lacking that stated 'no photographs allowed' policy, it is very questionable whether or not the club or club staff have any legal right to confiscate cameras/delete pictures.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-28-2005 at 04:05 AM.

  8. #8
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    There's a funny old thread on here wherein mermaidnz broke the camera cell phone of a bratboy taking pictures in the club...my suggestion, next time this happens, straddle the shutterbug, then drop the camera and bounce your Lucite shoe on it..LOL
    Sorry to hear this happened. In my career, I have seen clubs enforce the no-photos rule strictly...in their mind, they are being cheated of revenue if someone takes free pics there.

  9. #9
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    I would think it simular to taking pictures at a concert or something like that. If they can control such things, it seems like you can control such things.

  10. #10
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Hello!

    I did some more research and it looks like Canada implemented similar law as US.

  11. #11
    Featured Member nicole84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Wow, that sucks. My club is pretty tough on that, assuming they catch the guy. If they do, they delete the pic(s), and depending on how obnoxious the guy was about letting them do that, they might delete all the pics on his phone/camera. We have a bunch of signs up saying no cell phones/camera allowed, but guys dont pay attention.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Taking the film, deleting the picutres or (of course) damaging his camera all fall to the area (in most states) of NOT LEGAL....You can remove him from the club, scare the livin piss out of him (bouncer and manager can play mafia don...but don't touch him) but unless you're a court/law officer you have NO rights to HIS equipment

    Sucks, but don't make it worse by breaking a law he can then sue you for. Could be he was working under the "gray area" of copyright law that (some photogs believe) mean if someone is doing something in a public place I can take pictures...as long as I don't ask them to pose, no release is necessary. - this is the law that allows me to take photos of downtown at noon (nice action/traffic shot) without getting releases from everyone there.

    I've done alot of shoots (with permission) in SCs...surprising custies havent broken my ass, but I'm always careful not to show their faces, get girls permission, etc.

  13. #13
    Featured Member venusofwillendorf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    play stupid. ask to see his "big fancy camera" while sitting on his lap. gush about how rich and smart he must be. before he can stop you, open up the compartment and expose the stream of film, all the while gushing about his "equipment".
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    god idea venus...except digitals don't work like that...and in some states u may be liable for damaging the other images on the camera (maybe it's a client's work product....)

    I'd worry more about the first than the latter.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member funtasticFerra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Just because I'm paraniod, doesn't mean that they aren't after me.

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I absolutely LOVE this statement! Maybe it's because I, too, am paranoid about the goverment and how they are doing things underhanded and keeping tabs on us lol. (I've learned to not let it control my life) I don't doubt that they have files on all of us and no exactly where and what we are doing.

    Although if you think about it, if that were true why are there so many illegal immigrants aloud here?
    "When life gets rough turn up the music and dance a little"

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  16. #16
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    well, they do have the right to hold him in the club if you've called the police. Outside of that - I have no idea. It would certainly be inconvenient and embarrassing for him to be held there while the cops came and questioned him, even if they had nothing to charge him with - so he would probably either give up the film or at least not do it again. I wouldn't let him in again - no point in having patrons that are planning on executing all of their rights (seriously). Nobody wants that.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    He broke the law, specifically sports and entertainment law. It's what makes it legal to take a picture of Kevin Spacey eating dinner and sell the picture to a tabloid but illegal to make any recording of one of his Broadway performances; the performances being his property and entitling him to remuneration and rights of public use. Adult entertainers fall under the same catagory.

    Oddly, the customer would have been fine with taking pictures of you wandering around the bar. I've a long-standing habit of getting off stage and immediately walking around, dress in hand, to thank the tippers. Since I am not performing but choosing to walk around in public nearly naked, any pictures no longer belong to me.

    No, you cannot arrest anyone under this law (unless you're the NFL or something, I suppose). I vote for breaking the fucktard's camera. What's he going to do about it? "You see, officer, I was taking pictures of her stage show and then she took the camera and I think she broke it on purpose." Riiiiiight.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

  18. #18
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Thank you for all your comment.

    Well, at least I now know what to say if guys insist their rights and refust to show their camera I know what to say.

    "Your action is criminal offense against me and that give me right to access your camera. You can either show it to me or show it to police, your choice"

    Some guys has so much nerve to insist their right even in a situation like this.

  19. #19
    Featured Member venusofwillendorf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    to destroy the photos in a digital camera, you have to remove the memory card and tamper with it. i reccomend just dropping it in your champagne then giggling: "oops! i'm soooo drunk!!!" you are then potentially liable for the worth of the memory card, so you have to compare- is it worth 150 dollars or so to you to avoid being plastered all over the internet? if it isn't, why are you worrying anyway?
    be the change you wish to see in the world....
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    All of us are practicing law without a license. This is all a very gray legal area and sometimes comes down to the facts in the individual case. Plus, we're talking civil lawsuits as the remedy, not a very practical course of action. For that matter, how practical is it to do anything to stop this? You've swiped his camera and put your spiked heel through it? Too late, honey, the image has already been e-mailed and transmitted onto a weblog. Perhaps it's best to not be completely recognizable as your stripper persona and deny, deny, deny. No, she just looks a little like me. After all, he didn't get your DNA. Yet.

    Now here's the solution that I just thought of. Whenever this crap happens, the club needs to whip out a camera of its own and start snapping multiple pictures of the guy. Don't want YOUR picture as one of our happy customers on the Internet? Trade ya, we'll delete ours if you do yours. Perhaps that threat would at least make customers think twice about how much they'd dislike the shoe being on the other foot.

    -Ev

  21. #21
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Last night several police officer was in the club.(routine check up) I came up to them ask question about the situation that happend to me couple of days ago.

    Suprisingly none of police officer were aware of voyeurism law exist in Canada and it's ciminal offense to record take picture of nude image without consent.

    Canadian girls! We are protected under Bill C-20. Anytime people take nuede picture of you in the club they are commiting criminal offense.

    Please read the link () and when worst comes worst you have to explain police officer such law exist in Canada and insist your consitutional rights protected.

    Evan_essence I was thinking about the same thing. Since in Canada it's criminal offense they better not walk away the coub, when I have picture of them.

  22. #22
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Jade, I think that you skipped over a very important sentence in the early part of that bill ... "Every one commits an offence who, surreptitiously, observes - including by mechanical or electronic means - or makes a visual recording of a person who is in circumstances that give rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy," ...

    ... which brings the discussion right back to where it started from - a legally gray area as to whether or not a dancer willingly performing nude on stage in a public venue has any reasonable expectation of privacy. Perhaps the reaction of the Canadian police you questioned in your club provides a reasonable answer regarding the degree of 'privacy' which can be reasonably expected while a girl is dancing nude on stage in Canada.

    The easy answer to this situation is to approach your clubowner to put up a couple of large signs stating a 'no cameras, no photographs' policy towards anyone entering the club. While such a stated policy would still not give dancers/bouncers the right to permanently confiscate or damage a customer's camera, it would at least provide a 'first line of defense' to legally justify the forced deletion of any images taken inside the club.

    The suggestion of photographing the customer who took pictures of a dancer for 'leverage' would probably be effective - but would also be potentially negative in terms of creating a 'fear factor' in the minds of other customers, who may not want to come back to this club in the future knowing that they may be photographed (even if in the background). This phenomenon was clearly noted in the early days of web streaming video, when a few clubs tried to market streaming video of their stage as part of a website membership package - and customers started leaving in droves the minute they became aware of the presence of cameras.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-30-2005 at 04:45 PM.

  23. #23
    Banned Jade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    Hello! Meloni. Very Good point. It will be good considring factor for police when they make any decision regarding this kind of matter.

    Just to make sure I understood correct I pasted clause from Candian goernment website.

    Voyeurism
    162. (1) Every one commits an offence who, surreptitiously, observes - including by mechanical or electronic means - or makes a visual recording of a person who is in circumstances that give rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy, if



    (a) the person is in a place in which a person can reasonably be expected to be nude, to expose his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts, or to be engaged in sexual activity;


    (b) the person is nude, is exposing his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts, or is engaged in sexual activity, and the observation or recording is done for the purpose of observing or recording a person in such a state or engaged in such activity; or


    (c) the observation or recording is done for a sexual purpose.

    Interpreta-
    tion
    (2) In this section, ``visual recording'' includes a photographic, film or video recording made by any means.


    Exemption
    (3) Paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) do not apply to a peace officer who, under the authority of a warrant issued under section 487.01, is carrying out any activity referred to in those paragraphs.


    In my opinion, in strip club we are resonably expected to be nude, therefore Candadian dancers' rights are protected.

    I am sure there is other way to interpretate this. What do you ladies think?

  24. #24
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    In my opinion, in strip club we are resonably expected to be nude, therefore Candadian dancers' rights are protected.
    NONE of those provisions of law apply unless 162.1 "a person () is in circumstances that give rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy" when surreptitions photos are taken. Thus I would agree that Canadian girls would be covered by this law if they were surreptitiously photographed nude in a doctor's exam room, if they were surreptitiously photographed nude in a health club girl's locker room, or surreptitiously photographed in another PRIVATE venue where nudity was to be reasonably expected.

    But clubs are PUBLIC places, and nude stage dances are PUBLIC performances - thus casting a huge amount of doubt as to the 'reasonable expectation of privacy' that such performers can assert if they attempt to invoke the protection of this law.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member vegasbebe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have any rights?

    That's fucked up. The club I worked at would take the camera and break it. What are they gonna do, call the cops and say, "Yeah, I took naked pictures of girls and my camera was confiscated?" If this happens in the future, "accidently" break the camera if you can and then call the bouncer

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