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Thread: Starting a business

  1. #1
    Veteran Member rain's Avatar
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    Default Starting a business

    I mentioned this in an earlier post...but I was wondering if any one out there has started their own business, sole proprietorship, etc. just solely for dancing.

    My goal for the next few years is to dance, probably in several states, and also work some part- or full-time 'straight jobs' where I will be receiving W2s.

    But along with dancing, I want to make costumes, do phone sex, and all other kinds of independent contractor work. And I want to be able to write off the cost of sewing supplies, a prepaid phone to keep contact with custies all over the nation (that is separate from my personal phone), I want a separate bank account so I don't confuse the gifts I get from family (occasionally my mom will put something like 100 dollars in my bank account out of the goodness of her heart) with income and I can keep everything straight, etc. etc. etc.

    Is it possible to run a business that includes dancing income (as an independent contractor) and income from selling clothes or other goods? Just an "all in one" kind of thing?

    If so, what's the next step? Is it difficult to register a business?

    Also...anyone know any good bookkeeping tools? Quicken, etc.?

    If anyone can recommend any good books, other threads (I did some searches but didn't find exactly what I wanted), or any other advice I would love it. Thanks again for the help I've received on this forum. If it weren't for SW I would be evading taxes and not being realistic.

    There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy.
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  2. #2
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Wow good question rain I was wondering the same thing...

  3. #3
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    I don't think an "all in one" business is acceptable - I believe that even as a sole proprietor, you must keep seperate books for each type of income stream. Dan Morris can tell you more about that.

    In terms of starting your own business, your local bookstore or amazon.com should have good books to get you started.

    This is also a very good resource:



    To start your own business, you will need a business license from your state, a DBA or Fictitious Business Name statement if you are doing business under a name that isn't your own, and if you are reselling goods, a sales tax permit. Your local chamber of commerce should be able to point you in the right direction.

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    Veteran Member rain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    smartcookie, what if i just had a business for dancing? it will probably be a while until i generate serious income from making costumes anyway, its just one of my interests.

    so now my revised question is...

    can an 'independent contractor' start a small business as a sole proprietor. do freelance writers/personal trainers/other freelance professions do this? pros/cons to doing this?
    There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy.
    Henry Miller

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    basically, every different sole proprietor business pursuit must maintain its own set of books on income vs expenses, and every different sole proprietor business pursuit must file its own Schedule C. There's no reason that a sole proprietor can't file say 3 different Schedule C's for dancing, costumemaking, and internet work, along with W2 income from straight jobs. However the bookkeeping gets complicated, and the sharing of expense items i.e. one company car, one phone line, one office gets even more complicated. Perhaps most important of all, when the IRS receives a tax return from one person with 5 different income streams and intermingled expenses it is a virtually guarantee of an annual audit !

    At this level of complexity it makes more sense to incorporate, and lump all of the independent business pursuits under one 'umbrella'.

  6. #6
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Mel, how does one incorporate?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Mel, how does one incorporate?
    The specific answer depends on the state you choose to incorporate in, and the specific type of corporation you select ...

    has the basics

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Keep your expenses isolated from each other and operate similar small businesses as one entity. If the primary income is dancing operate that as one entity and use a cell phone for that. Have another house line for phone orders for costume orders and day-sales stuff. Keep separate checking accounts for each "business" and keep records or logs of equipment use. All the IRS really cares about is that all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. If you keep it all clear, it is clear to the IRS and clear to you which business to expand and which to drop. If you have 3 phone lines for business and have records to support their use they may be happy just with a xerox of your log and not bother you for $2000 income and $300 expenses. Write logavailble on the tax form and keep Real good records and they will look at the return and say "yawn, that guy looks like he is pulling a fast one--I'll go after him" and just ask for a copy of something, see you were expecting a possible audit, and have supporting documentation with few unansered questions. Their a loads of seasonal businesses with few issues like lawn-mowing/snow-plowing which can be operated by one person with clear paper trails.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member rain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Thanks for the link Mel!!!

    I'm sure you're wondering about this, chrissychan, cuz now you have income from dancing and zee bunny ranch. maybe im wrong....


    so if i do incorporate and do dancing, bachelor parties, internet work or whatever else, i should just have one company covering it all?

    i also do web design...

    some of my deductions (cell, sewing costs-for my own costumes, damnit!-, and car stuff can all be used for all 2-3 streams of income)

    hmmm just wondering what i should name this company .......
    There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy.
    Henry Miller

  10. #10
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Quote Originally Posted by rain
    Thanks for the link Mel!!!

    I'm sure you're wondering about this, chrissychan, cuz now you have income from dancing and zee bunny ranch. maybe im wrong....


    so if i do incorporate and do dancing, bachelor parties, internet work or whatever else, i should just have one company covering it all?

    i also do web design...

    some of my deductions (cell, sewing costs-for my own costumes, damnit!-, and car stuff can all be used for all 2-3 streams of income)

    hmmm just wondering what i should name this company .......
    Yup you nailed it not to mention I have to mag shoots coming up so thats a third form of income.... I am going to name my company after my stage name... Jenny Lane

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    some of my deductions (cell, sewing costs-for my own costumes, damnit!-, and car stuff can all be used for all 2-3 streams of income)
    This is exactly where problems can arise for multiple sole proprietor businesses. As Monty posted, in order to keep the IRS happy it might be necessary to have a separate phone number for EACH business. And where one business is making costumes and 'selling' those costumes to another business you operate plus selling costumes to other customers not affiliated with your businesses is concerned, aaaooogah !
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-29-2005 at 05:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    My LLC (a form of corporation) does about 8 different but related things....all in the same industry. My attorney and accountant agree that's fine...as long as the books are good and detailed, and I don't mix personal and business $$ too often.

  13. #13
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    I've never had any problems lumping live club earnings, mag modeling earnings, website earnings, video sales earings, and 'shared' business expenses under the umbrella of my LLC either.

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    What is an LLC? Did I miss something? Is that the same thing as incorporating? What is the advantage to incorporating (or LLC if that's different) vs just being a sole propriter. Sorry if this sounds silly, but I'm a little confused.

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    God/dess FBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    My biz is a C corp so im not sure of the advantages if any of an LLC. I think LLC stands for limited liability corporation.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Incorporate! It is pretty cheap (under $200) and you should call yourself an "entertainor" or something vauge like that. I do alot of strippers/call girls/phone sex, etc girls for mortgages, and most of the successful ones are incorporated "entertainers" or "even coordinators"

  17. #17
    Veteran Member rain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    that was funny at first - "i do alot of strippers/call girls/phone sex" haha
    yeah it looks like incorporating is the way to go...
    until i win the lottery

    sometimes i want to go to law school just so i can bust peoples' balls...and so no one can fuck with me!
    There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy.
    Henry Miller

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Basically an LLC is a corporation stripped down to the bare minimum of compliance requirements and extra costs. LLC's, S corps and C corps all offer particular pros and cons depending on the specific nature of your business, the amount of income you expect your business to earn, your personal finances, and your future plans ...
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-30-2005 at 03:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Why incorporate instead of just filing taxes with my SSN like I always have? I'm confused. I want to make sure I do this right. Is it just so that I'm an "official" self employed person?

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    And....if I incorporate, I can report all of my income (modeling, dancing in clubs, dancing in bachelor parties, etc...) under the umbrella of entertainer, right? And, should I name it my stage name (ie: Ashley Laine, Inc-if this was my stagename)? Does this protect my identity? For example, could I have a customer make a payment to my corporation without being able to find out my real name? I'm SO confused. I should get an accountant. But, I can't afford one at the moment (yes I know it would save me money in the long run, but I'm in a tight spot right now).

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Oh, and if I incorporate or form an LLC, I can lease a vehicle under that title using my new EIN, instead of my SSN, right?

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    Featured Member MadisonM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    I'm not sure if this is the same as what the original post was about, but I'm interested in starting my own business just for dancing and modeling. I want to start up a web site to advertise myself, like what features do. I eventually would like to become a feature once I'm done with school next year, and I've been looking into featuring and I've been talking to managers about it, but how would I go about using this as a business? I guess I'm just kind of confused.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    And....if I incorporate, I can report all of my income (modeling, dancing in clubs, dancing in bachelor parties, etc...) under the umbrella of entertainer, right? And, should I name it my stage name (ie: Ashley Laine, Inc-if this was my stagename)?
    This is something that you should speak with an expert about. However, my own LLC is named Melonie Charm Ent.

    Does this protect my identity?
    well, 'protect' is debatable, since anyone who knows where to look and who is willing to make the effort can quickly find a public record of linkage between the corporation and the corporation's owner(s). But it certainly creates an additional level of 'smoke screen' such that your personal identity is better protected from accidental/casual disclosure.

    could I have a customer make a payment to my corporation without being able to find out my real name?
    If you set things up correctly when establishing your corporation/LLC the answer is YES. This is one of the major reasons I originally established an LLC, so I could accept checks made out to 'Melonie Charm' for 'homemade' video sales, feature fees etc.

    The only time the LLC/corporate 'smoke screen' doesn't help is when 'Tracy Lords Law' modeling/website/commercial video disclosure laws come into play, where you must provide the magazine/webmaster/video producer with your real name, real age, real address, SS# etc. You could still accept a check made out to your LLC/corporation name, but you must also provide them your personal info to comply with Section 2257 (plus this personal info is kept on file and must be shown to 'authorized' persons on request).

  24. #24
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting a business

    The biggest thing about corporations vs individuals is that taxes are on profits with corporations and on earnings with individuals.

    As a sole stockholder of a corporation you can pretty much expense everything to the corporation (thereby reducing it's taxable profit) and use the goodies like it was your own. (On dissolution have a "fire sale" or simply call it a dividend to the stock holders aka YOU.) You are basically able to buy everything with pre-tax dollars.

    The corporation pays you a pitiful amount that keeps your personal income tax low.

    There are so many games to play with it (the rich protect their own compared to common "labor") that you need to front some cash to sit down with a CPA/Tax Attorney and ask some questions... hopefully becoming one of their clients!

    C corporations are a PIA cuz you have to have "meetings" with yourself to decide how things are going to be (if you really want to keep the forms tidy.)

    S corporations let the stockholders use losses on their own personal income taxes, or something like that. Of course, if the corp starts making money... might be time to re-inc.

    Sole Proprietorships are not their own legal person - so if it get's sued - you get sued.

    (And if you sell the corporation you sell all your goodies owned by the corporation so make sure you sell high!)

    Also as Melonie points out - it can act as a shield to fools seeking your identity. If the corporation is not publically owned - this can be pretty hard to find and pry out of the various government agencies involved. Ya gotta have some pretty big balls to go ask the government for information with ill intent.

    Another expense to think about is a resident agent with a corporation. With a corporation the government want's someone in the state of incorporation to act as the contact for legal proceedings, etc. If you incorporate in the state you live, you can act as the resident agent. If not, you will need to pay someone to do so (bizfilings finds and pays such people for you I believe.)
    It'll take a few days to get familiar with the words much less what they really mean.

    You are about to discover just how fucked the Walmart worker really is.

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    Default Re: Starting a business

    Deogol,
    You are about to discover just how fucked the Walmart worker really is.

    You are so right! My father owned a business when I was growing up and wrote EVERYTHING off! I've always known I wanted to be a business owner instead of employee for that very reason. I will find a good accountant as soon as I can and get this started! Anybody know any good ones in SD?

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