View Poll Results: What should happen?

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  • Lethal Injection

    38 66.67%
  • Stay of Execution

    5 8.77%
  • Clemency

    11 19.30%
  • Other

    3 5.26%
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Thread: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

  1. #1
    Featured Member LilSweetVixen's Avatar
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    "You have demonic genius" -Naomi Wolf
    "I very much resent it when people - maybe with good intentions or from a progressive point of view - keep telling me, 'It's their culture' ... It's like saying the culture of Massachusetts is burning witches." -Azar Nafisi


  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    I personally think they should go ahead with the execution - when even the beyond-liberal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals won't overturn your execution, you REALLY deserve it. But I'm a little nervous because a lot of the gangs have promised riots in Los Angeles if it happens, and I work downtown. I think if Schwarzenegger denies clemency (as he probably will), I'm definitely lying low for a few days.

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    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    He killed how many people in cold blood? I'm sorry, I don't care how much he's changed... none of that changes what he did. Time to pay the bill if you ask me.



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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    I agree with Yekhefah and Sirona. The execution should go ahead as scheduled. I don't care how much he's changed, no amount of "good" he's done in jail can take back the bad he did or replace the lives he took out of the world to get him there.

  5. #5
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Well, clemency is entirely discretionary (isn't it? I'm not Californian). So there really doesn't have to be any reason or rationale for it. But besides that; I'm not sure you get to alter the nature of your crime - which is usually what one is sentenced for - AFTER you've committed it. I think it is pretty much frozen in time?
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    i just think it's crazy to try and get out of being executed. Those people that he killed didn't have a freakin chance to beg for life. Why is it any different now that it's time for him to pay for what he's done?
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    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannon
    I agree with Yekhefah and Sirona. The execution should go ahead as scheduled. I don't care how much he's changed, no amount of "good" he's done in jail can take back the bad he did or replace the lives he took out of the world to get him there.
    i agree. i have a feeling my pal amethyst will kill me for it ! LOL

    seriously i have no compassion for people who murder others. esp in cold blood like that. supposedly he laughed in the vietnamese guys face as he died / laid there gurgling. plus i'm always leary of these people 'changing' in prison. jeez aren't they "all" redeemed ? not to mention thereare plenty of people who have probably had a change of heart in prison, maybe ormaybe not, but tookiejust has a good PR team.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Well start trashing me I personally have not kept up to date with this man(over the years) but from the reports I am hearing he has done a lot of good for the youth who may be thinking about joining gangs etc . What he did was a terrible thing agreed but something inside me says this man really put fourth an effort to turn his negative to a positive - its just too bad that people lost their lives in the past because of his behavior .He came from a place I am sure that many of us here have not experienced and we are lucky for that .So my gutt says stay in the big house for life .

  9. #9
    Featured Member DSUsb19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Not only was he himself a murderer, he also bred a whole culture of killing. He put that into other people's heads, and now we have gang wars all over. He's just basically a terrorist. He pretty much created a domestic Al Quida. People have been put down for lesser crimes, he's no different.
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    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by DSUsb19
    Not only was he himself a murderer, he also bred a whole culture of killing. He put that into other people's heads, and now we have gang wars all over. He's just basically a terrorist. He pretty much created a domestic Al Quida. People have been put down for lesser crimes, he's no different.
    nod

    he still says the worst thing you can do is be a 'snitch' , supposedly.

  11. #11
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJ
    Well start trashing me I personally have not kept up to date with this man(over the years) but from the reports I am hearing he has done a lot of good for the youth who may be thinking about joining gangs etc . What he did was a terrible thing agreed but something inside me says this man really put fourth an effort to turn his negative to a positive - its just too bad that people lost their lives in the past because of his behavior .He came from a place I am sure that many of us here have not experienced and we are lucky for that .So my gutt says stay in the big house for life .
    If he were really reformed and anti-gang, would the Crips have promised to burn Los Angeles to the ground in retaliation for his execution? Would they still hold him up as their ideal if he had really reformed and worked to eliminate gang culture? And who do you think has been paying for these incredibly expensive lawyers all these years? Couldn't be the Crips, could it?

    And would he have been caught on video just a couple of years ago promising to have a particular prison guard killed? He was silently mouthing the words at the guard through the bars of his cell, with this terrifying cold expression. He hasn't changed, he isn't reformed.

    And he wants out of jail. If he's granted clemency, the next thing he's going to be demanding is parole. I personally don't want him walking my streets, OR breathing my air. He's already gotten more attention and respect than any of his victims got. Fry him.

    I do hope there are no riots though. I'm worried about that.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member reesexc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Well,I know I am in the minority here being that I voted for clemency. I don't support the death penalty period. Of course you can't wipe out the bad he has done, which he will still serve life for, but you can't ignore the good either. There are a lot of people involved or thinking about getting involved in gangs, but choose not to through his word.While he took some lives he is also saving some.It's a touchy issue indeed.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    This thread is purely political, but if it's OK for others to post then what the hell. IMHO why has the state of California kept this multiple murderer (and possible cop killer) alive for the last 20+ years ? Why is the Rev. Jesse Jackson and two dozen hollywood celebrities lobbying so hard for clemency ? Why is the Nobel committee considering this guy for a Peace Prize and Literary awards ?

    California law says per

    " The California State Legislature re-enacted the death penalty statute in 1977. Under the new statute, evidence in mitigation was permitted.

    The death penalty was reinstated as a possible punishment for first degree murder under certain conditions. These "special circumstances" include: murder for financial gain, murder by a person previously convicted of murder, murder of multiple victims, murder with torture, murder of a peace officer, murder of a witness to prevent testimony and several other murders under particular circumstances. "

    not surprisingly, nobody is calling for clemency in regard to the next prisoner scheduled for execution in California, Leonard Ray Allen.

    IMHO if the state of California wants to abolish the death penalty again for ALL convicted murderers, then fine. But if the state of California feels that the death penalty is necessary and justified then it should at least be applied in a uniform manner, without regard to race, creed, color, sex, national origin and all that good stuff - and without regard for the opinions of the media, celebrities etc.

  14. #14
    Member hopeless romantic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Just to add 2 cents, 'Tookie' hasn't done crap to change anyone's minds from joining gangs, at least if you judge by how many people are reading his 'children's books'. One book has sold less than 300 copies, another less than 100. I have seen these things, they are not books any kid would ever want to read, they are some quick crap thrown together on PageMaker and published so he could be marketed as a "Anti Gang Activist" and "Writer of Children's Books" by his celebrity pals. Why don't they just add "Lover of Small Puppies" to top it off.

    This guy has never admitted guilt, and therefore never even expressed remorse for the 4 lives he took in cold blood, at close range, for NO reason other than cruelty. If Justice delayed is Justice denied, Reverend Jesse Jackson, why have we waited 20 years?

    Execute. Him. Already.

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    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    has he *really * done anything good ?? have there really been these great numbers of kids who decided against gangs or who are now "reformed" because of him ? I doubt it. Let's not forget tookie Jr. (his son) was recently found guilty of raping a child. A family full of princes !

  16. #16
    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    ^Wow.. Yeah.. He should be cantonized as a Saint, eh?

  17. #17
    Veteran Member reesexc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    If he stops one kid from being involved in gang activity..then yes he has done "some" good. No one is saying he hasn't done wrong and doesn't deserve to be punished, my point is the death penalty isn't the answer.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    or perhaps if "one" kid sees what happens when you kill others in cold blood (you get executed) he will have done some good. (rolleyes)

  19. #19
    Veteran Member reesexc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Fear of being put to death, as odd as it seems, has been proven not to be a deterrent and that the crime rates in cities where executions take place often actually go up.

  20. #20
    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJ
    Well start trashing me I personally have not kept up to date with this man(over the years) but from the reports I am hearing he has done a lot of good for the youth who may be thinking about joining gangs etc . What he did was a terrible thing agreed but something inside me says this man really put fourth an effort to turn his negative to a positive - its just too bad that people lost their lives in the past because of his behavior .He came from a place I am sure that many of us here have not experienced and we are lucky for that .So my gutt says stay in the big house for life .
    Please don't take this as a personal attack but dude... what the fuck?

    Last I checked it's not only illegal, but fucking reprehensible to shoot an elderly woman in the face with a shotgun, which is what he did to Tsai-Shen Yang who was 63 at the time. He also killed her 67 year old husband and 43 year old daughter.

    I'm also pretty positive that shooting 19 year old Albert Owens in the back of the head TWICE with a shotgun AFTER successfully robbing the 7-11 Owens worked at was illegal. Oh and in case you missed it, he killed him AFTER he'd robbed the place and could have just left. Instead he chose to kill the poor kid.

    But hey, he found god and decided to help young people and shit so let's let him live out his life with three meals a day and a fucking roof over his head free of charge, which is a shitload more than the Yang's or Mr. Owens got...

    I'm sorry, I really am. I'm not a heartless person but as far as i'm concerned he made his bed...



  21. #21
    Veteran Member SthnrnGrl77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    perhaps because sociopaths do not have any concept of deterrents. these people don't think like us, remember. they have no concept of right/wrong/consequences, etc. the DP ensures that they will never get out and harm another innocent life again. if prison were actually punishment it may be OK, but it's not. I"ll bet he's doing "business" behind bars as we speak!

  22. #22
    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by reesexc
    Fear of being put to death, as odd as it seems, has been proven not to be a deterrent and that the crime rates in cities where executions take place often actually go up.
    Nope, it's not a deterant but it sure as hell is cheaper than paying for them to die of old age while eating three hots a day and having free housing and medical which is a lot more than a lot of law abiding decent citizens get.

    *Let's not forget he'll also get free schooling and and legal representation.



  23. #23
    Veteran Member reesexc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Do you really think he'll actually get out...i really doubt that. He will still be punished with life.

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    Featured Member greggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    At the end of the day, he killed four people. A lot of people on death row change and become "good" and what not, but that doesn't change the fact that they've killed someone. If they let him off with life, then they should let all of the other "reformed" murderers off with life too. I don't think so... every action has an equal an opposite reaction (one of Newton's Laws)... his sentence is his "equal and opposite reaction" (though is lethal injection every equal? no)

  25. #25
    Veteran Member reesexc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirona
    Nope, it's not a deterant but it sure as hell is cheaper than paying for them to die of old age while eating three hots a day and having free housing and medical which is a lot more than a lot of law abiding decent citizens get.
    It costs more to execute them than for them to serve life...strange, but true.

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