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Thread: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

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    Default It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    the council vote takes place later today.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    I emailed the council and actually got a response back from a councilman. I'm crossing my fingers.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Let the lawsuits begin. The city council despite their pleas that their intent was not to run the clubs out of business (yeah right) unanimously passed most of the new restrictions. In their supposed attempt at compromise to the clubs they decided not to ban alchol, and did agree that a six foot barrier was overly restricted agreeing instead to the very less restrictive four foot barrier.

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...exbiz1213.html

    http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=55068

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Let the mass emmigration of dancers to Phx clubs begin
    Rebecca Avalon







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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    That fascist moral taliban idiot Scott Bergthold aka (Community Defense Counsel) deserves a good hard gang rape from AIDS infested gals! He is nothing but a ruthless attorney who makes half his $$ at taxpayers expense by adopting UNconstitutional ordinances, then the other half defending them. You would think city councils would have the insight to know of the end costs to taxpayers and $$$ disbursed to Bergthold are clearly not warranted when a MAJORITY of people in most cities could give a flying fuck about his proposed ordinances and perceived negative "secondary effects" studies that are outdated and totally irrelevant to the cities they are adopting the ordinances on.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland
    Let the mass emmigration of dancers to Phx clubs begin
    Exactly what I was thinking. I expect my already extremely crowded club to be friggin overflowing with Snottsdale girls when I go in this weekend. Not to mention Sonny's in Chandler and probably Christie's Tempe as well. Look out girls! Competition's about to get a whole lot stiffer

    Fucking hard-right overconservative nutjobs

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    First day after the meeting and we had 2 come in today for auditions.....Oh man this is just the begining I am sure.


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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    ^^ Yep. Just wait, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. Not just for Snottsdale girls, but for all of us in the area, as we have to deal with increased competition for the same (or fewer) customer dollars. I would have to agree that Scott asswipe deserves a good HIV ass fucking just for being such a jerk

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    It looks like Jenna wants to take this issue to the ballot box to let the voters decide. She's got my vote. My only fear with this is the religious rights power at the ballot box, they are very well organized and tend to vote, whereas many of those who would support Jenna would just be too lazy to make their way to the ballot box, although perhaps something like this would be motivation enough for those people.

    I like this idea, IMO there's really nothing to lose by taking it to the ballot box.

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...4sexbiz14.html

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    ^^ Yep. Just wait, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. Not just for Snottsdale girls, but for all of us in the area, as we have to deal with increased competition for the same (or fewer) customer dollars.
    LOL, isn't that called the secondary effects?

    And just wait until Phoenix decides to follow suit.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Will business still be good at Babes? Or should I go somewhere else....??

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Well, since the police are now enforcing the no lap dance rule, and you cannot take your top off, and there is a fence around the stage, and many of the house dancers at Skin and Babes are now looking for gainful employment at other clubs...I'm going to guess business is not too good.....anywhere in the Phx area.

    I think it will work itself out by mid January, but I think the next 4 weeks are going to be increasingly tough for all house dancers in Phx as the Phx clubs absorb many of the Scottsdale dancers.
    Rebecca Avalon







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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    "It doesn't sound like anything will happen for a very long time. None of the restrictions are set to go into effect until March at which time the lawsuits will go into effect which I'm sure will drag out for years (costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars BTW)." -posted by Rcihard Head.

    So why would the girls already go to Phoenix? If nothing will happen then why leave? I'd rather stay somewhere where it is clean than have to go to Phoenix where it's known for having dirty dances.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Phx known for having dirty dances?? LMAO! Looks like somebody needs to get out more. Phx has some of the cleanest dances in the country. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Scottsdale had a previous no lap dance law, they just didn't enforce it....until last week when over 80 tickets were written to dancers and mgmt. THAT was the first thing that triggered girls to leave the clubs.

    I guess it depends on how much of a "freedom fighter" you are. Between now and March is a gray area. This is such a heated legal battle...and the city isn't playing fair. Even though the city should allow the businesses to operate as usual, I doubt they will. PD probably will continue their presence in the clubs and will continue to write tickets for trivial things, like accepting a tip in your bikini. I think a lot of entertainers figured that a potential ticket wasn't worth sticking around for.

    Why would they go to Phoenix? Because it's their only other choice.
    Rebecca Avalon







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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    What exactly are the rules? I'd rather follow the rules & have cleaner dances bc some clubs in phoenix are just too dirty or the management doesn't enforce the rules..

    Perhaps phoenix is the cleanest in the country, but it is still dirty. I've seen it & I've experienced it. If a club allows grinding & customers to touch dancers...dirty things WILL happen wherever you are. It's called competition & greed. But Babe's specifically doesn't allow that to happen which is why it's commen sense that it is a clean compared to clubs in Phoenix. So yes. Phoenix IS dirty. You are NOT a fantasy anymore if customers can touch you.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Fairness is not the name of the game in the strip club business. Clubs are forced to stay in buildings that they have outgrown and in areas that have declined while other businesses such as grocery and drug stores and the like can move or expand with little problem.

    As was said by several SW members, we as dancers, customers, attorneys and club employees don't fight as hard as the religious right does. That is why fuckface Bush was elected president. The Democrats did not slander and blast him for his conservative views as hard as the conservatives blasted us liberal people for our views.

    It does no good for a quiet fight in the courtroom. How many of us as dancers and customers will picket in front of a church and cause as much trouble for the conservatives as they cause for us? We're too fucking worried about what our families, "so called" friends and society think of us. Marches and VISIBLE fighting by us WILL get media attention and wake up a lot of the public to how ludicrous it is put so much time and money into fighting the adult industry. These very citizens who we "wake up" are key in the religious right's losing ground in their war on the adult industry, right?

    No wonder our business of choice is going down. We may as well lie out in the middle of a busy street and "hope" we don't get run over. Club owners open the doors everyday hoping they won't get raided, and dancers dance everyday hoping they can perform the types of dances guys will pay for without going to jail.

    The city is worried about it's image. The clientele that lives and visits the affluent parts of Scottsdale are the customers Jenna is targeting and the ones who spend the most in clubs, right? Politicians don't want to admit that, do they? She knew fucking around with a club in a wealthy person mecca (even though the club is in the poor side of town) would be trouble.

    Why won't the mayor say, "we are not going to waste time trying to put strip clubs out of business. They pose no threat to our city, and their clientele is made up of middle and upper class customers. Their employees will lose their good incomes, and that loss will put a strain on our economy. You religious right people have to realize that it is not fair to make everything your religion denounces illegal, and you need to accept other peoples more liberal lifestyles just as liberal people accept yours".

    I am waiting for the day politicians will stand up to the religious freaks and say just what I said above. When will that happen?

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    As was said by several SW members, we as dancers, customers, attorneys and club employees don't fight as hard as the religious right does. That is why fuckface Bush was elected president. The Democrats did not slander and blast him for his conservative views as hard as the conservatives blasted us liberal people for our views.

    It does no good for a quiet fight in the courtroom. How many of us as dancers and customers will picket in front of a church and cause as much trouble for the conservatives as they cause for us? We're too fucking worried about what our families, "so called" friends and society think of us. Marches and VISIBLE fighting by us WILL get media attention and wake up a lot of the public to how ludicrous it is put so much time and money into fighting the adult industry. These very citizens who we "wake up" are key in the religious right's losing ground in their war on the adult industry, right?

    No wonder our business of choice is going down. We may as well lie out in the middle of a busy street and "hope" we don't get run over. Club owners open the doors everyday hoping they won't get raided, and dancers dance everyday hoping they can perform the types of dances guys will pay for without going to jail.

    The city is worried about it's image. The clientele that lives and visits the affluent parts of Scottsdale are the customers Jenna is targeting and the ones who spend the most in clubs, right? Politicians don't want to admit that, do they? She knew fucking around with a club in a wealthy person mecca (even though the club is in the poor side of town) would be trouble.

    Why won't the mayor say, "we are not going to waste time trying to put strip clubs out of business. They pose no threat to our city, and their clientele is made up of middle and upper class customers. Their employees will lose their good incomes, and that loss will put a strain on our economy. You religious right people have to realize that it is not fair to make everything your religion denounces illegal, and you need to accept other peoples more liberal lifestyles just as liberal people accept yours".

    I am waiting for the day politicians will stand up to the religious freaks and say just what I said above. When will that happen?


    While I believe many politicians PRIVATELY are supportive (or at least neutral) to the adult entertainment industry when their votes are PUBLIC, they feel pressured to vote to what their perceptions of a majority of their voters want; unfortunately these misguided and often unfounded perceptions are what keep attorneys like Scott Bergthold in business and taxpayers wondering who elected these fascist idiots? In Ohio a religious organization backed by Bergthold and Alliance Defense Fund called Citizens For Community Values has been trying to put the clubs out of business for years, and fortunately the lobbyists have been able to kill these bills in committee even though the votes from both Republicans and Democrats are there for overly restrictive laws. Bergthold has found a gold mine, city councils often believe he is a "expert", but what city councils I think fail to understand is his ordinances are often ruled unconstitutional. Bergthold just keeps on smiling all the way to the bank and looks for the next naive city, while the overwhelming majority of taxpayers wonder why in the hell the city/state even litigated the matter in the first place.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Kgf, go to CA, TX, FL, MI, RI, NJ, NM, MD, PA, MO....most any state.....and dance for a while. Then come back and tell me Phx is dirty. Phx is child's play in comparison. The days of making money with strictly no-touch dances are all but gone. Sorry.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    ^^^ ain't that the truth !

    There are really two issues/questions regarding the Scottsdale ordinance. #1 although an appeal is being set in motion, the first key question is whether or not a judge will grant a 'stay' barring the new ordinance from being enforced, or whether the city can enforce the ordinance all the way through the appeals process and will only have to stop enforcing the new ordinance if and when the city loses in appeals court. Occasionally a judge will grant a 'stay' ( happens regularly in New York), but more often than not the new law is allowed to stand until/unless it is struck down at the end of the appeals process. Without the 'stay' order, local dancers are going to be negatively impacted throughout the entire appeals process, which can indeed take years.

    The #2 issue is how the legal charges/fines associated with violating the new Scottsdale ordinance compare to the legal charges/fines associated with violating Arizona state prostitution law. If both are misdemeanors, and if both carry fines in the $500-$1000 ballpark, it won't take long until a few girls figure out that if they start offering big time 'extras' they are able to increase their earnings potential tenfold in Scottsdale clubs with essentially zero additional legal risk. In fact, their legal risk is actually lessened because by earning big bucks doing 'extras' they can afford to hire a top notch private attorney rather than depending on the club's attorney to plea bargain their butts down the river. When this happens, law abiding dancers in Scottsdale might just as well get out of town or get out of the exotic dancing business, because they can earn more at WalMart than they can from trying to sell anything to Scottsdale customers while the next dancer is offering the 'whole enchalada'.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    It won't really affect me now, but I can't help fearing what may be in store for Phoenix next.

    We all know the usual consequences to overly restrictive strip club ordinances are drastically decreased customer spending, followed by drastically increased dancer "offerings" to keep income flowing, followed by drastically increased customer demands, until finally the clubs become so skanky it's practically impossible for clean dancers to make a living.

    Phoenix enacted a license law for strippers last year. Apparently dancer fines for minor infractions got stiffer as well. Since then, contact has increased by, oh, double from what I've seen. It's no longer of any consequence to the clubowners/managers if girls get caught breaking the law and get fined - it's all on the girls now. So there's no more incentive for owners to control what's going on in the clubs.

    If Phoenix city council follows Scottsdale's example, I'm afraid it could mean big trouble for the dancers in this area. The girls here are used to having it REALLY easy in comparison to what custies in most other areas expect for a buck.

    I am thinking I decided to get a real job JUST IN TIME. heh. Someone on here commented once how I seem to have an uncanny ability to see it's time to move on at just the right time. Perhaps that person (think it was Tina?) was more right than she knew! LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    I am waiting for the day politicians will stand up to the religious freaks and say just what I said above. When will that happen?
    When those of us who aren't religious freaks (or anti-sex feminists, or some other brand of malcontent) become more concerned about our freedoms, than who got knocked off last night's episode of Survivor. I don't think the politicians themselves are that puritanical. They just know that the lion's share of people who vote for them are. When the voting demographics change, the politicians votes will change.

    That's the sad part. We sit back and let these goons subject the rest of us to second class citizenship, and we don't seem to mind as long as we're preoccupied with some token amusement like reality television. This whole country is becoming something out of "Brave New World" I swear.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Yep Bridgette, that was me. I was just thinking that the other day about you too.LOL. For us full time dancers, we need a stable work environment to maintain enough income to make this worthwhile. At some point almost every major city attempts to pass restrictive laws on this business thus driving the business away.

    For the young dancer in college working several days a week and whose parents are helping them out, all is so so. If they make $100 2-3 days a week that is just extra money. The rest of us are forced to move around constantly to sustain decent earnings. But you cannot travel forever.

    The tone of Stripper Web has changed a lot since I became a member. A growing number of dancers are just not making enough $ anymore.

    I wish some liberal fat cats would pour big dollars into organizing the "normal" masses in an attempt to defeat these conservative freaks. I always said things would get worse in this country before they get better due to the religious right trying to control our lives. We are in the beginning stages of the get worse cycle now.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Oh, I think we've been in the get worse cycle for a while. It's just progressed to the point of being more noticeable now IMO.

    This stuff had nothing (or a negligible amount) to do with my decision to get a "real" job, but it sure is quite a coincidence that in the same week I'm getting 2 good job offers and deciding on one, all this goes down right next door. I am excited about the new job just for that, but I'm even more glad I made this decision now. I can quit anytime I like. And with all the crap that's been going on, I'm thinking that will be sooner rather than later.

    I too wish we could get organized and fight the right-wing nutjobs. But it won't happen until they've shoved so much bullshit down our throats that the whole country starts choking.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: It will be curious to see how Scottsdale responds to Jenna's appeal

    Hey, the right-wing nutjobs piss me off just as much as the next stripper, but the Democrats aren't helping us any--the sponsor of the recently tabled, extremely restrictive Ohio HB 23 was a Democrat. It's just that rather than seeing strippers as drug-addled homewrecking prostitutes they see us as exploited, undereducated women who need saving from ourselves.

    Sigh. I guess the only pols on our side would be crackpot Liberterians or Green Party members.

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