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Thread: Lap Dance Economics

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    Default Lap Dance Economics

    Can anyone explain the rigid prices of lap dances? In any ordinary market there are sales (ex.: after Christmas), negotiations (ex. buying a car - no one pays sticker price) and volume discounts (ex.: 20 oz. drink is $ 1, a thirty oz. drink is $1.25). Assuming a 3 minute lap dance costs $20, it could be possible to make $2,800 in 7 hours but no one makes this amount. Yet on slow nights many girls are just sitting around talking to their girl friends and making no money. An independent contractor/business in the real world would drop prices to drum up business (ex. ' kids eat free' at restaurants on Monday nights) or offer special deals. Does negotiation by dancers exist at SCs? Clubs offer 2 4 1s -- Why not dancers? Anything that drums up business is good for the club. As long as the club gets it's cut, why would managers care?

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Volume discounts are not unusual(like 1 for 20 and 2 for 30 or 3 for 50). The practical consideration of a cash business dominates pricing. Dancers do not want to carry cash for making change (imagine a dancer buldging with $5 and $10 bills to make change for 15 transactions/shift, or rushing off to make change in a crowded club). Some dancers do try to charge a premium. but it is awkward to convince a potential client why your price is higher than others.

    Given the constraint and the elasticity of demand between round numbers (20-15-10) the price settles at 20 in most cases. It is just not practical to charge $22.50/dance or $17.50 per dance.

    The single largest variable per dancer is the dimension of quality versus price. It is hard to differentiate dancer A from B when the bulk of transactions are initial purchases and differences are hard to evaluate. The example of the drink does not apply well since the largest part of the cost is the bar's cost of the server and cleaning the glass rather than the materials rather than the contents. All barbers in the same shop charge the same price too, for comparable reasons involving pricing.

  3. #3
    Lucy Blue
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    One girls slow night may be another girls fantastic night and some nights may be slow for a while but good for a while too, you just have to ride with it sometimes.
    In the clubs I have worked in with one exception I personally think the dances are worth the set prices and I don't think anyone should work for less. If we start working for less then people will begin to expect to pay less when ever they want to. The exception of the clubs was one which had become always quiet and I did think they should have reintroduced the $20 or even $30 for 5 minute lap dance instead of the minumum $50 for 15 minutes. (They had got rid of the cheaper shorter dance before things got bad.) I see no point in reducing a $50 for 15 minute dance to half price, but I think a cheaper option dance would have been a good thing. The club closed anyway, it didn't pick up...

    I would also say that even though it could be possible to make $2,800 in 8 hours - the dances are a set price because no-one really expects to be dancing the full 8 hours a few times a week week in week out. Sometimes is ok, but all the time would be exhausting and something you certainly don't want to do for less money!

  4. #4
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Sure, I've had dancers offer discounts on their dances when it's been slow. I've had dancers who threw in extra dances for free, presumably to keep me happy as a customer and coming back.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiefan
    Can anyone explain the rigid prices of lap dances? In any ordinary market there are sales (ex.: after Christmas), negotiations (ex. buying a car - no one pays sticker price) and volume discounts (ex.: 20 oz. drink is $ 1, a thirty oz. drink is $1.25). Assuming a 3 minute lap dance costs $20, it could be possible to make $2,800 in 7 hours but no one makes this amount.
    I think the primary reason for rigid pricing is that because most of us custies don't exactly know how many dances we'll be having. Therefore we often pay for what we do buy with cash. When you're dealing with cash, a nice round number simply makes transactions go smoother, esspecially when it matches a popular currency denomination. One $20 bill = 1 dance. Simple. Besides, do you really want to negotiate over something that costs that small of an amount of money? ( I suppose some here would say yes).

    Yet on slow nights many girls are just sitting around talking to their girl friends and making no money.
    Take a young inexperienced prospective dancer with no sales skills, give her absolutely no training, no insight on what makes the men spend, and just throw her to the wolves. She might only walk home with $100/night, but that's still more than what a mainstream job will pay, plus she's gets to take the money home that night, and in some cases can drink on the job. Try getting those perks working at McDonalds or Wal-Mart. It perhaps sounds pathetic from the viewpoint of an A list veteran dancer, but to that new girl those earnings are like a dream job.

    An independent contractor/business in the real world would drop prices to drum up business (ex. ' kids eat free' at restaurants on Monday nights) or offer special deals. Does negotiation by dancers exist at SCs? Clubs offer 2 4 1s -- Why not dancers?
    Because in the wacky world of the strip club, dancers all too often are only "independent contractors" in the respects that clubs want them to be.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    1. Generally speaking, managers don't care. They only care about lining their own pockets.

    2. Smart dancers don't negotiate lower prices because customers who get the cheaper price once will expect to get it (and more) all the time. If we negotiate a deal on 3 or 5 dances once, next time he'll expect a deal on 1 or 2 dances. Customers generally want to see how much they can get out of us, and for how little - so they'll continue to push for more and more at increasingly lower prices. Smart dancers know that if we open that door to price negotiation, we'll wind up negotiating ourselves right into the poorhouse.

    3. We all know that it's absolutely unrealistic to lapdance constantly for a full shift at any price.

    4. We all know that there will be good times and bad, and are willing to accept the occasional bad night in exchange for the other good ones. By keeping our prices consistent, we can guarantee that on busy nights, we will make enough money to outweigh the slow nights. Also, on slow nights, when we do get that one guy willing to buy dances, by keeping our prices consistent, we can guarantee we will make SOME money, rather than doing a string of dances at a cutrate just to make house fees.

    5. By keeping our prices consistent, we have one less headache to deal with regarding asshole, cheapass customers. There will always be assholes giving us a hard time. At least we don't have to add unnecessary negotiation to the long list of customer BS we have to deal with

    6. Where one guy may only be willing to pay $30 for 2 dances, there's always another willing to pay full price. NEXT!

    7. Price negotiation on lapdances really only benefits the customer, and sorry, but we're just not in it for your benefit.



    Speaking for myself here, I've always gotten plenty of guys who'd buy long strings of dances from me at full price, and even TIP on top of that. Why the hell would I give some schmuck a deal on 2 or 3, or even 10? Fuck off!

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    clubs that collect a significant percentage of private dance money (i.e. customer pays $20, club keeps $10, dancer gets $10) don't leave much room for negotiation.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    ^^ that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    The lap dance is pretty much our bread and butter and we don't want to compromise the value of it. There is no discount in bulk unless maybe you discuss it beforehand. If I've done 4 dances for you and you ask for one more free...no way. But at the beginning you ask for 5 for the price of 4....I might go for it.

    And if you wait all night, you can get several 2-for-1 specials. But damn do dancers hate the guys that wait around for those.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Not only does negotiatio exist in spades, clubs are already taking it upon themselves to create incentive for customers to come in on slow nights and slow shift times. Ever heard of $5 dance night, or 2-4-1, or $10 dance Sundays. This is de riquer in Austin and not uncommon everywhere else.

    The employee versus Independant contractor debate is tired. Technically, the clubs cannot pre-determine the rate at which we set dances, but on the other side of the coin we could technically be employees and owed a paycheck with SS/FICA covered. Then we would totally be at the mercy of the club's set sale price. So in order to maintain semblance as IC in OUR OWN minds, we put up with the constant fluctuations in order to increase our overall returns. This is our best hedge against being paid slave wages for a job with no career advancement options and a very sordid societal reputation.

    Personally, I've given bulk dances and thrown in a 5th dance or so free given the right combination of timing and customer attitude. Put it this way, its NOT the cheapos who aren't buying at all who are going to get a deal. This decisions has been used as an incentive for good customers, the few times I've taken that step.

    So, you should understand the industry a bit more before making sweeping generalizations based on your experience as a customer, eh? Just ignore the little man peddling the bicycle behind the wall sir.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    A hypothetical example:
    Suppose a 15 minute dance was $150 or $300 or $500. Obviously the higher the price, the fewer the customers. On the other hand, dropping the price would generate more business. A particular price is irrelevant. What is relevant would be finding the sweet spot where a dancer could make the maximum income consistent with whatever energy she wants to put into it over an evening. To restate the example in a different way- 4 dances @ $130 generates more income than 3 @ $150.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Fairly hostile response to the question. You seem to be doing very well but I'm not sure everyone's experience is the same as yours. The basic idea of behind the thread was maximizing income given the particular circumstances on any one night.

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    Featured Member paintgoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    "On the other hand, dropping the price would generate more business."

    From someone who has actually hustled a dance floor night after night.... I BEG TO DIFFER. Dropping the price might, just might get more clientelle into the building. However, that just gets more cheap men in the building that we have to waste our time on hustling only to find that they've spent their only $20 on someone else and are now just "relaxing" i.e. taking up space and wasting girl after girl's time. Customers that wait until the prices drop for a special or who are looking for a deal are not ones that we want waste our time on anyway. (yes, do that dance, take the last of their money and be done with them.... but they're of no lasting financial good to any more than one or two of the dancers working there on a given day or night.) Time is money for us dancers. I'd rather hustle a room full of men who are willing and able to pay for a $20 dance and who are willing and able to buy multiples than a club packed with three times that number of men who are only willing and/or able to buy one dance or two dancers at a cut-rate price. How else can i say it? IMO, a more dancer friendly environment is a room full of men that can be re-hustled by another dancer at full price after one dancer is done with them.

    Your idea is great in theory... but it doesn't make any practical sense. In the environment you're describing, the numbers look great, but the dancer's success rate would be dramatically lowered. Actually, one or two dancers might do astronomically better, but it wouldn't spread the wealth like you're thinking it would. It would crowd up the clubs with the one-dance guys (one dance a NIGHT, not one dance at a time) and waste our frikkin time finding the few that are there to spend decently.

    If someone has a better way of saying what i'm trying to say, chime on in.
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    i have directly seen cut-rates destroy dancer income. in a club i worked at for like a year, they recently dropped the cover charge from 20$ to 5$. we got in massive crowds (in fact, that club is still getting in massive crowds), but also more guys bringing in only a single 20$. 20-5$ cover=15$. not enough for a dance, only stage tips. and lo and behold, stage tips became very consistently ok, but dances were harder to sell.

    but at the 20$ cover, guys would bring in like 60-100$. fewer customers, about 1/3 to 1/4 as many, but 80% of them ready to spend on at least a few dances.

    customers who are all 'why aren't dances 7$ when it's [email protected]?!' or whatever are missing the point for the girls. six guys who each have 500$ is fine for us, and not too shabby for the club, because they will spread that money around. 50 guys with 12$ apiece is worse for both the club and the dancers. cheapness when it comes to entertainment of any sort is often a losing proposition. a lot of bars with 50 cent beers do not necessarily see more tips for their bartenders on those cheap-drink nights. dancers have to physically perform their entertainment, so cheapness on service does not work so well for them. a girl doing 5$ dances 'cos it's slow' is not going to make all that much, even when tipped on the dances. her income ceiling plummets.

    dancers should maintain a mild amount of flexibility in pricing, but not generally flea-market their dances. it just drops the potential income for no reason at all.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Lap dances are a luxury... part of properly marketing a luxury is that you never sell it at a discount.

  16. #16
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    I don't expect a $20 dance to be offered for less, and it's worth $20 to me. Still, the dancer who throws in a dance for free now and then is receiving at least a hypothetical benefit in terms of my ongoing loyalty. If I'm the type of customer that she wants to have on an ongoing basis, she's foregoing a small immediate profit for longer-term profits down the road.

    I might add, it's always worked. I'm always impressed with a dancer who values my business with her. It probably helps that the places that I patronize have flat tipouts rather than percentages of dances, or so I'm told.

  17. #17
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    I have seen this logic applied my former corner of the sex industry, escorting. When I began, my minimum was two hours for $900. When I left, it awas five hours for $1,600. I had no problems finding clientele willing to pay my prices, in fact, I could not handle the number of serious inquiries I was receiving on a weekly basis. Paradoxically, every time I raised my minimum, thinking that it would cut back on the number of requests, I was swamped. This is called "the law of perceived scarcity." The more out of reach something (or someone) is, the more people want it (or her). Still, every once in a while, some anonymous stranger felt the need to send me an e-mail like this:

    You have a great website but I would like to offer additional feedback.

    No doubt you understand that guys will jump through a few hoops but your rate for a five hour dinner date create a more difficult process than actually having a girlfriend.

    If you had a rate for a stand up guy who would stop and "pop" in more frequently you'd do better for your bottom line.

    Since you seem all business I figured you might be interested in concerned audience feedback.


    And that was just one of many. What he failed to understand was this:

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Lap dances are a luxury... part of properly marketing a luxury is that you never sell it at a discount.
    Thomas Keller didn't become the success he is for offering a dining experience at McDonald's prices. Jaguar isn't Kia. Chanel isn't H&M. An interesting analysis of this phenomenon is this book from the .

    For Costco and Walmart, price cutting is a smart business move. For other businesses, discounting is akin to shooting oneself in the foot with an M16.

  18. #18
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Not wanting to bog down the thread too much, SC....

    .... but another comparison is a lawyer. I'm going to keep hiring my favorite lawyer. But if he does some work for me and says, "Oh, this didn't take all that long. It's a freebie," or, "It was a piece of cake, so I sliced my fee," then I feel that he appreciates my business and wants me coming back, and I'm more likely to.

    I can also relate to your scenario - I have never, ever lost business by raising my own prices.

    It's probably a function of where I go to clubs and what time I go there. (Afternoons, and it's slower than evening - a steady stream of dances is not guaranteed.) Say hypothetically that my hypothetical favorite dancer has a hypothetical daily minimum goal of $250. She sees me come in. She knows that if I'm carrying that hypothetical $250 in disposable income for the day, she can make her hypothetical goal with one customer.

    Will I zip right over to her, or will I walk on and say, "I'm just checking out everybody today - can't wait to see you on stage"? I'm going walk over to her, because she treats me well, and part of my appreciation of that treatment is that she tosses me a freebie now and then.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    well, as i noted, a mild degree of flexbility should exist. plenty of girls here have noted that they will do 6 topless dances for 100, say, to guarantee a sale of multiples. it is just that increasingly, dancers cannot rely on customers like you, jay, to honor that sort of open-ended agreement. you may give her 250, but plenty of other regular customers would over time expect her to settle for 200 or 150 just because it represented a lump sum that could equal a slow shift's earnings. and by the same token, there are dancers who would give you discounted time for say 200 so that they could preserve the option of finding more customers during the course of the shift.

    it is just that in general, a dancer has to have a more compelling reason for discounting her entertainment than 'bulk sales work for walmart, why not dancers?!' i've seen too many girls on those slower shifts you speak of make 150 doing 10$ dances 'because it's slow'. and customers wanting 3/20 after a while since the girls had already shown they would price-cut dramatically for bulk sales.

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    In the last year I notice a lot more of the cheap type of custies coming in. Part of it is the manager's fault and part of it is just the business in general. However, I am not doing this because I have to. I do have a college education. I just want to make my life better by using what I have been blessed with while I have it. I am quick to remind customers who want to haggle the price of a dance that this is not a flea market. And I totally agree with Bridgette about the fact that as long as we are getting the full price for dances why should start charging less. Most of us are completely in it for ourselves. It is a sacrifice we make. We give up the acceptance of society and bare ourselves completely. The return is the immediate and endless amount of cash we can make in one night. Sure, we have awful nights and we have awesome nights. But when you average it out it is more than most women our age could make without a eight year degree or a gifted talent. It is a stepping stone to move on to better things not a career decision that offers promotions, benefits and such. So, the only person a discount would benefit ultimately would be the customer. Why should I do three dances for 50 dollars when I can hold my head up and charge the regular price.

  21. #21
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    OK, I think I'm being annoying, and that's definitely not what I mean to do.

    I agree that the stripclub, being a very personalized service, does not fit into the business model of Wal-Mart, which is a discount goods marketplace.

    I like to deal with people who treat other people well, including me. In turn, I treat them well. It works nicely. That turn-for-turn might include tips and/or discounts. In my view, the discounts are not a good standalone market strategy. Rather, at least for me and people like me, they are part of a holistic approach to customer treatment.

    My lawyer and my favorite dancer both "hold their heads up" when we have a mutually beneficial arrangement. If they didn't, I wouldn't like it, they wouldn't like it, and we wouldn't deal that way.

    I hope that's my final annoying comment.

  22. #22
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella
    it is just that in general, a dancer has to have a more compelling reason for discounting her entertainment than 'bulk sales work for walmart, why not dancers?!'
    Exactly. Walmart has low prices because of cheap manufacturing costs in China. I can't think of how that relates to the adult industry, unless some enterprising person starts producing fembots off the assembly line from Guangzhou Province.

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    God/dess greenidlady1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Well said smartcookie

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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    jay, nothing you said was annoying, at least not to me. it's just that dancers cannot rely on customers to respect their work the way you respect your dancers of choice. customers hear comparisons to lawyers or hairdressers, anything relevant, and it still doesn't sink in. far too many think that a freebie=licence to receive further and further discounts. it's a power game issue. the few customers that don't play it, yes, they can occasionally receive a perk of service. but they are very few, and as a result, there's not a strong incentive for dancers to offer freebies or discounts even occasionally.

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap Dance Economics

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiefan
    A hypothetical example:
    Suppose a 15 minute dance was $150 or $300 or $500. Obviously the higher the price, the fewer the customers. On the other hand, dropping the price would generate more business. A particular price is irrelevant. What is relevant would be finding the sweet spot where a dancer could make the maximum income consistent with whatever energy she wants to put into it over an evening. To restate the example in a different way- 4 dances @ $130 generates more income than 3 @ $150.
    The problem with your example is that it only involves the income side of the equation and not the amount of maintenence the dancer has to give with to make that money. Some gals have a higher asshole tolerance than others, but I'm sure all dancers would prefer to work with a lower maintenence customer over a higher maintenence one carrying an equal or possibly greater size tiproll.

    Of course, it should be pointed out that the lower maintenence customer more likely will be the one willing to pay full price. If he's not trying to haggle for a cheaper price, or trying to extract maximum bang for his buck by being handsy, his perceived value of the dance is obviously higher than that of the haggler/groper.

    I suppose you could say it pays for the customer to haggle, but you could also say that it pays for the dancer not to deal with hagglers.

    I really don't mind the rigid prices. It simply turns my perception of a dancer's services from an A-B-C-D-F grading system, to a pass-fail one.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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