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Thread: new club questions

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    Default new club questions

    Hi,

    I have been presented with an opportunity to open a new club in mass. It unique, in that there's no competition for 30 miles, but I have no experience in this business...yet.

    We anticipate an opening date of mid-April 06. It's an 8,000 sq ft. facility divided into two main areas. Here's my question that I hope you folks will help me with:

    I would like to operation a sports-bar (left side) / gentleman's club (right side) type of environment. I am wondering if the mix of the two would be considered a good idea?

    Secondly, from what I can see, my profits come from the booze and not the girls directly. Therefore, I am thinking of the following structure for the girls:
    -no stage fee / late charges (you're an independent contractor)
    -$10 house fee for lap dances
    -Waitress tipout at discretion
    -all other tips the girls keep

    Is this fair? From what I can see it should be better than normal, but I am interested in your opinions.

    Girls...how do I find the best girls....what criteria should I have -- what should I look for?

    And finally...what do the girls expect from the club?

    Thanks so much for your help !

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    Default Re: new club questions

    In all honesty you should be more concerned with making a business plan that is profitable for you.







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    Default Re: new club questions

    I would like to operation a sports-bar (left side) / gentleman's club (right side) type of environment. I am wondering if the mix of the two would be considered a good idea?
    Maybe. Try it, but have a backup plan.

    Secondly, from what I can see, my profits come from the booze and not the girls directly. Therefore, I am thinking of the following structure for the girls:
    -no stage fee / late charges (you're an independent contractor)
    -$10 house fee for lap dances
    -Waitress tipout at discretion
    -all other tips the girls keep

    Is this fair? From what I can see it should be better than normal, but I am interested in your opinions.
    Sounds very fair. If it works for you, go for it.

    Girls...how do I find the best girls....what criteria should I have -- what should I look for?
    You won't find the best girls... Well maybe. Depends.


    And finally...what do the girls expect from the club?
    no stage fees? Hard to expect much from that kind of deal.
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    Default Re: new club questions

    I've only been in one club that vaguely fits your business model ... a duplex club called Double D's in Morristown NJ. It basically consisted of a bikini sports bar on one side, adjoined to a 'private gentlemen's club' on the other side. In a nutshell, the club made money like gangbusters in the sports bar on drinks and bar food sales, while the dancers earned s#!t.

    On the 'private gentlemen's club' side, a few girls banked big time while most earned little or nothing ... since girls needed to be 'chosen' from the sports bar by gentlemen's club customers in order to accompany them to the other side. From a business standpoint the 'private gentlemen's club' functioned like one big champagne room, and the 'gentlemen's club' customers quickly figured out which girls would provide maximum 'bang for their big bucks' and which would not.

    This club had major problems retaining dancers who just wanted to dance, because if girls were not 'down with the program' at the gentlemen's club, almost their entire earnings potential consisted of dancing their asses off on stage in the sports bar in exchange for titty tips across the bar. But for girls who were into the gentlemen's club action (and particularly those who were comfortable with OTC), there was a steady stream of Mercedes and Beemer and Vette drivers .

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    Default Re: new club questions

    I don't know what the laws are like in your area, but I think it's a good concept, and this could work if you can do it:
    Sports bar when you first walk in the door. Have hot waitresses and shot girls, but no dancers. Then they walk through a different door to get to the strip club area, where the dancers are. If a guy wants to take a dancer back to the sports bar for drinks, he can, but the girls don't roam free there unless the strip club side is dead and they're trying to get customers over there. You would maybe want to consider paying a drink commission, like $2 for each drink a dancer sells, so that they would be more open to the idea of going over to the sports bar for drinks with a customer. The strip club would be nude/topless, and the sports bar side bikini, so the girls can't get naked there. This would make customers go to the strip club side if they want to see nudity.

    As for how to hire girls, you have to decide what type of crowd you're looking to bring in. You don't necessarily need the hottest girls, but make sure you have a variety for customers to choose from and pick their favorite for the night.

    No house fee sounds great. I work at a club that has no "house fee," but the club keeps half from each lap dance we do (dances are paid for up front at the DJ booth) and we pay $2 every time we go on stage. So it is basically a house fee, but it's based more on what we make, not a flat fee where everyone pays the same, and we get bonuses for how many drinks we sell, which encourages us to sit and chat with a customer for a while and entertain him, rather than just keep walking around asking for dances constantly. The club I work at is very low hustle, and it works for everyone. In big cities with more businessmen, lots of hustle might work well, but in a smaller city with mostly blue collar guys, they don't want to be hustled as much.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Where in Massachusetts?

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Thank you all for such great feedback. Your idea of the sportbar/club area is right in line with mine. The sports bar area has zero nudity -- it's more like a Coyote Ugly, with hot waitresses, etc.... and my thought is that the girls will be able to interact/have fun on the bar side and hopefully close a deal to go over to the stage area. I like your idea of creating the drink incentive as well for the girls.....

    The key to the sports club/gentleman's club is catering the the men who need somewhere to go and watch the game -- as the booze catches up with him you know he'll drift toward women -- it's in his DNA. So earlier in the day the sports bar will be busy watching the Red Sox, Patriots or NASCAR and then more business in the evening toward the club side.

    Again, fantastic ideas that are all greatly appreciated.

    One other thought....I am thinking of scrapping the DJ for a "custom DJ IPOD" -- such that, each girl has a pre-programmed playlist the computer plays or the girl simply hooks up her IPOD and plays what she wants......

    How important is the DJ ?

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    Default Re: new club questions

    At my club we only have a dj on weekends to announce us on stage, but we always pick out our own music. I just work in a small club, so the dj is only there on weekends when it's busier. So you probably could go without a dj, as long as the dancers know how to work whatever music system you have: jukebox, computer, cds....

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Okay, so you are saying that you just bought a building, and are considering opening it as a strip club in 3 months?

    Call me cynical, but that is like saying you are going to offer space flights from your backyard. Unless the business is already oporating as a strip club, you might be able to shoot for April 2007 as an opening date.

    This person doesn't even know what he is going to do about music service. It is an 8000 square foot facility- that is huge.

    How about permits, contruction and remodeling work, liquor licenses, insurance, payroll, and a management team. You will probably need twice as many managers as you would if you were running just a single focus establishment.

    There is usually a 6 week lag time from the time you order your sound and light equipment, to the time it arrives at your facility, then you have to line up the electricians and contractors to get the stuff installed, then you have to get the permits for the electricians and contractors from the city to actually do the installation. After the instalation is complete, you still can't open until the city inspectors have approved the light and sound equipment as being installed properly and up to code.

    These are basics for any business. And the example that I offered up is just for a very small portion of what is required to turn rooms into a night club.

    My thought is that this post is BS.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by myNewClub
    Thank you all for such great feedback. Your idea of the sportbar/club area is right in line with mine. The sports bar area has zero nudity -- it's more like a Coyote Ugly, with hot waitresses, etc.... and my thought is that the girls will be able to interact/have fun on the bar side and hopefully close a deal to go over to the stage area. I like your idea of creating the drink incentive as well for the girls.....

    The key to the sports club/gentleman's club is catering the the men who need somewhere to go and watch the game -- as the booze catches up with him you know he'll drift toward women -- it's in his DNA. So earlier in the day the sports bar will be busy watching the Red Sox, Patriots or NASCAR and then more business in the evening toward the club side.

    Again, fantastic ideas that are all greatly appreciated.

    One other thought....I am thinking of scrapping the DJ for a "custom DJ IPOD" -- such that, each girl has a pre-programmed playlist the computer plays or the girl simply hooks up her IPOD and plays what she wants......

    How important is the DJ ?


    The DJ has A LOT to do with the energy flow in the club. We have two sucky DJ's which is okay I guess because we are a small layed-back resort community. You don't won't a DJ that sucks if you are in a more metropolitan area.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    and you've got to think that not EVERYONE has an ipod. A dj is very VERY important.

    i really doubt you will get good quality dancers if they hear there is no dj.
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    Default Re: new club questions

    I work in several clubs that fit your plan. A regular bar/sports bar on one side and walk through another door and you are in the strip club. Both of these bars have no DJ, in one we used to each have CD players assigned to us and would put in our own music, now changed to a jukebox, and the other the bartender plays our CD's. These clubs have decent volume and are in small towns of under 20,000 people.

    They also both work 5-7 girls per night, 5 of whom get paid $300 for a 6 night opening to close booking.

    What do you mean by a $10 house fee for dances? Do you plan on taking $10 from each dance? How much are your dances going to be. Dances should be no more than $20, and a standard club cut from a $20 dance ( where it is customary to get a cut) is $5. Anything more than that is not fair.

    You can charge a small house fee of $10-$15 depending on your business. In many clubs that are larger house fees generate more income than drinks. What is the competition within a 100 mile radius doing?

    I prefer having a DJ because he can push the guys to tip and buy dances. The DJ creates the momentum in the club, and momentum makes guys spend more.

    To get girls advertise in the nearest alternative paper, and go around to other clubs talking to girls and giving them cards. I s there an adult paper in distribution within a 100 or so mile radius of the club. Run ads in there if so.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Okay, so you are saying that you just bought a building, and are considering opening it as a strip club in 3 months?

    Call me cynical, but that is like saying you are going to offer space flights from your backyard. Unless the business is already oporating as a strip club, you might be able to shoot for April 2007 as an opening date.

    This person doesn't even know what he is going to do about music service. It is an 8000 square foot facility- that is huge.

    How about permits, contruction and remodeling work, liquor licenses, insurance, payroll, and a management team. You will probably need twice as many managers as you would if you were running just a single focus establishment.

    There is usually a 6 week lag time from the time you order your sound and light equipment, to the time it arrives at your facility, then you have to line up the electricians and contractors to get the stuff installed, then you have to get the permits for the electricians and contractors from the city to actually do the installation. After the instalation is complete, you still can't open until the city inspectors have approved the light and sound equipment as being installed properly and up to code.

    These are basics for any business. And the example that I offered up is just for a very small portion of what is required to turn rooms into a night club.

    My thought is that this post is BS.

    Well, you are incorrect. The facility is already an operating club -- all 8,000 sq ft. Has been operating at a loss for 10 years. The adult permit is being issued 2/2/06 and has already passed the legal hurdles.

    I understand your skepticism, but it is for real and will be operating by mid-April the latest. Of course it will be a learning curve, but it's the only business that can turn the 10-year jinx this place has had. Remember, there is no competition for miles (40 minute drive in any direction). The population is a mix of blue/white collar, with over 85,000 people within 20 minutes, and 3 miles from a major highway.

    Of course it would be nice to be in my backyard, but i will settle with 3 miles from my home.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    What do you mean by a $10 house fee for dances? Do you plan on taking $10 from each dance? How much are your dances going to be. Dances should be no more than $20, and a standard club cut from a $20 dance ( where it is customary to get a cut) is $5. Anything more than that is not fair.
    Hmmm....I was considering the "private dances" would be a negotiated fee with the customer --- I have been told this can range between $20 - $40 each. Since it was my only cut, i felt $10 fixed fee would cover me, the tips to the staff, etc... You really think that's bad?

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Where in Massachusetts?

    The reason I ask is that some areas have strict zoning requirements. Some towns have killed clubs over a couple of parking spaces. There is probably a reason why there aren't any clubs around.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Yes, it is rare to get more than $20 for a dance. That really is the going rate unless you have a VIP room, but in an area like you are in, $20 dances basically are what you will sell. If you have a DJ who pushes the dances, and train your girls in selling, your dance revenues could be good. And maybe you can get a slightly higher house fee, let's say $25-$30 per girl.

    Then you will have to pay your DJ let's say $70 a night, and the dancers should probably have a mandatory tip out of $10 each to your DJ. I don't know how many hours your club is open, but in a town the size you state I assume it will open around 5 or so.

    I'm not sure if a cover charge will work with than kind of format, but some clubs with a similar layout charge a few bucks to get in on Thursday-Saturday after 7-8 PM.

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by myNewClub
    Well, you are incorrect. The facility is already an operating club -- all 8,000 sq ft. Has been operating at a loss for 10 years. The adult permit is being issued 2/2/06 and has already passed the legal hurdles.

    I understand your skepticism, but it is for real and will be operating by mid-April the latest. Of course it will be a learning curve, but it's the only business that can turn the 10-year jinx this place has had. Remember, there is no competition for miles (40 minute drive in any direction). The population is a mix of blue/white collar, with over 85,000 people within 20 minutes, and 3 miles from a major highway.

    Of course it would be nice to be in my backyard, but i will settle with 3 miles from my home.
    I did throw in the caeveat that "unless it is already opperating as a strip club" in my original response.

    If I was your business advisor here are things I'd want you to think about:
    1. Why is the business opperating at a loss? There are so many factors here that answering this one question can keep your accountants busy for weeks. Was management to blame? Lack of opperating capitol? Demographics not condusive to this kind of business? Lack of quality employees? Economically depressed area? Poor location? Overhead expenses out of control? Overly liberal population? Is the current owner using the business for "other than legal" business practices? Was the business designed to be a tax shelter? And that is just the tip of the iceburg.

    2. Why do you think you could turn the business profitable with out any expierence in this area? Are you being overly optomistic about your and/or your consultant's skills with turning this thing around? Running any kind of bar or restaurant is a lot of hard work, and the failure of these kind of businesses is very high, in the neighborhood of 70% (even if there are naked girls).

    3. Just because there is no comepition in the area, does not mean that your business will flourish. Sometimes having compition nearby will create a destination area and more traffic for all the competing businesses. Just like shopping malls have many stores offering similar goods for sale, this creates more variety for the consumer, thereby drawing more consumers to a single neighborhood. The rouge businesses that are well away from malls and shopping centers have to offer something that is truly unique to draw traffic. Adult entertainment and alcohol can be found in just about every livingroom in the US, if the consumer so wishes. So your competition is not just other Strip clubs, you also will have competition from the internet, escort agencies, private dance agencies, adult video stores, and regular bars that hold wet t-shirt contests and other psuedo-strip club type activities.

    Writing a business plan is a very educational expierence. If you have not taken this step, then you need to right away. It is your blueprint for you business. Could you imagine trying to build a structure w/o a bluprint? That is what it is like to try and start a business w/o a business plan. You need to be able to look down the road and see where this business is going before determining what would make dancers want to work there.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by StrpClbOwnr
    Where in Massachusetts?

    The reason I ask is that some areas have strict zoning requirements. Some towns have killed clubs over a couple of parking spaces. There is probably a reason why there aren't any clubs around.
    The zoning commish has already approved the zone. Remember in mass about 5 years back all towns were mandated to allocate space for adult related businesses or they would be able to put them anywhere....well, this town chose 1 place, and it was this existing establishment. My luck -- it's the only permit allowed and it's with an existing bar that's pretty huge with massive parking...holds over 300 cars. I have the blessings of the police and fire chiefs, town coordinator, and hopefully the board of selectmen. I am hesitant to tell the town name until 2/2 -- the date of the permit. Let you know next week.

    You apparently own a club in mass ?

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    I did throw in the caeveat that "unless it is already opperating as a strip club" in my original response.
    Ah...but it is NOT...it is just a bar....a plain old bar like the other 200 in the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    2. Why do you think you could turn the business profitable with out any expierence in this area? Are you being overly optomistic about your and/or your consultant's skills with turning this thing around? Running any kind of bar or restaurant is a lot of hard work, and the failure of these kind of businesses is very high, in the neighborhood of 70% (even if there are naked girls).
    You're right ! I have no clue if I can pull this out of the mud --- but i've operated 2 successful software companies from startup to sale -- I know numbers and operating a business -- but this is historically a failing enterprise -- so I have a challenge -- but as you can see I do my homework -- thanks to you folks !

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    Default Re: new club questions

    Okay, so I'm just curious... Why do you want to own a bar/ strip club?

    It sounds like you are already committed to this enterprise- your OP sounded like you were just exploring the possibility.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Okay, so I'm just curious... Why do you want to own a bar/ strip club?

    It sounds like you are already committed to this enterprise- your OP sounded like you were just exploring the possibility.
    I have put in a down-payment .... but if the permit doesn't pass I can get out of the deal with minimal losses....but yes, I do have a little army of people on standy-by should I get the green light.

    Well, the bar I have always wanted to own.....a fun place to own, meet interesting people, and see happy people all the time. It's an investment, but I would be able to enjoy this one. The strip club is only for revenue. Honestly, I don't want to put myself up for public criticism, but I also don't want to operate a losing investment. There are 2 things in this world that people want --- money & sex. Since I can't open a casino in town, the next best thing is a strip club.

    Now all I need is some knowledge on the subject....I am about 20% there....but yesterday I was only 5%, so I have a constructive learning curve now :-) Thanks again...

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    Default Re: new club questions

    I think you are in for a big suprise. Happy, fun people? How about drunk and desperate people.

    People who frequent bars know that every single day, and sometimes multiple times a day, a customer will get seriously pissed at the establishment for some percieved transgression.

    Fights, employee theft, dancer drama, waitress drama, employees sleeping together, personality conflicts between co-workers (I refuse to work on any of HIS shifts), community dissent, public ridicule, personal issues with loved ones.

    Working late nights, working 18 hour days that begin at 11am and end when the sun comes up. Weekends and holidays are all booked up from now on. Bars and night clubs is where the rest of the world goes on their days off.

    Yes, I am playing devils advocate. It looks like you may have been wearing rose colored glasses in reguards to this deal. The club I am currently working at has a manager who can't keep it in his pants, and now several dancers are either pregnant or have left the club to aviod his advances. Of course, it is the hottest and most popular girls that have been sleeping with this guy. Oh, and couple of waitresses have been with this guy, too. Now the owner has to deal with a club in dissarray just weeks before the club moves to it's new location and it's grand re-opening.

    How much time have you spent working in the service and hospitality business?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: new club questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Fights, employee theft, dancer drama, waitress drama, employees sleeping together, personality conflicts between co-workers (I refuse to work on any of HIS shifts), community dissent, public ridicule, personal issues with loved ones.
    I hear you, and it's one of my larger concerns. I am not a good babysitter. Am used to working with professionals, but I know the younger people are the worse they typically are to manage. But I have a good management team in place, with good experience in hospitality and dealing with the younger crowd -- so I am going to rely on them to keep things in check....

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Working late nights, working 18 hour days that begin at 11am and end when the sun comes up. Weekends and holidays are all booked up from now on. Bars and night clubs is where the rest of the world goes on their days off.
    I am used to those days....remember the 2 startups? That was life consuming....so much it cost me my marriage. But I paid my dues --- I will not be the one stuck there 24/7 --- this is not an all-or-nothing investment for me. If I find my team is unable to manage the place with a decent profit, I'll find new people. If it seems "not do-able", then I will sell it. I'm not trying to be over-optimistic, just going into this trying to make a decent return and have some fun too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Yes, I am playing devils advocate. It looks like you may have been wearing rose colored glasses in reguards to this deal. The club I am currently working at has a manager who can't keep it in his pants, and now several dancers are either pregnant or have left the club to aviod his advances. Of course, it is the hottest and most popular girls that have been sleeping with this guy. Oh, and couple of waitresses have been with this guy, too. Now the owner has to deal with a club in dissarray just weeks before the club moves to it's new location and it's grand re-opening.
    Ya know, the image thing is important to me personally. My greatest hesitation was thinking my freinds would consider me the same guy you just described. I met with my closest friends and their wives to ensure my reputation would remain intact. I'll admit working around naked women isn't the worst visual for a job, but if the goal's to get into bed then I would just open the yellow pages and save myself the pain and anguish that loser did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    How much time have you spent working in the service and hospitality business?
    Me? None :-) But the team is the key here.....I'm the money guy, not the operations guy.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by myNewClub
    Me? None :-) But the team is the key here.....I'm the money guy, not the operations guy.....
    Well then...by that logic I could start up my own software company if I do enough research on internet forums and hire some people to do all of the actual work for me, and be successful. I use software everyday, so it should be easy enough to try and create and sell my custom software to others.

    Forget the fact that I've never even worked for a software company even as a janitor there.

    I think you need an expeirenced business partner in the adult night club industry. Someone who has worked in club management opperations, but has no money to invest in his/her own business. Make that person come to you, as a venture caplitalist, with their business plan and how they feel this particular location can be turned around. If you can't get the kind of return on your money in the time frame you would like to see it come back to you, then keep looking until you find such a person. Get the opinion of your management team, but ultimately, it is your money that is at stake here.

    Opening a business is a gamble. Opening one where so much corruption is present, and having no expeirence in, is financial suicide. So many people in this business are smooth talkers, very chrismatic, and excellent sales people. Also, a lot of people in this business are w/o and ethics, and will screw over their own mothers, all the while convincing her that it was her fault all along.

    Develop your sense of paranioa. It will help you to get through opening night. You will have to over develop your paraniod senses for any kind of longevity in the adult nightclub business.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: new club questions

    You're a wise women.....I would argue, however, that many CEO's of software companies have no clue how to use, develop, architect, etc., and only know key business concepts, metrics, and best practices. A good example is Larry Ellison -- he openly admits he's clueless when it comes to software, especially databases -- his bread and butter. Jack Welch knows nothing about aircraft engines, or any of the other 1000 entities GE owned during his tenure, but he added 65 billion to GE's market cap over 15 years.

    If it's one thing I have learned in business is to surround yourself with the brightest people you can, make thoughtful decisoins, and have ethics. Worked so far, but you may be very right in that this venture falls on it's face. But I go in with optimism that this will be profitable, and fun. If it's not on either front, it will be a distant memory.

    You've got good stuff.....so tell me, what is the most common property of the successful operations you've seen? Size? Location? Entertainment? Other?

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