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Thread: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

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    Default weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    There are tons of so-called financial 'gurus' out there who are trying to forecast where the economy is headed. They also draw on tons of statistics, indicators, and assumptions in the process, and often wind up espousing conflicting opinions after looking at the very same numbers.

    While this is NOT a recommendation of any sort, there is a new book out which attempts to take a fresh look at the subject of economic forecasting. John Maudlin's weekly column takes a real fast look at the main points the author of the new book attempts to make via the application of 'common sense'. If nothing else, it's certainly food for thought along 'fresh' lines.

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Mr. Mauldin has it exactly backwards and is guilty of the precise syndrome he accuses economists of.


    Take a look at his chart 10-7, with special attention to the arrows he draws. He considers real wages as the leading indicator of consumer spending. Sounds good, but it is backwards. Real wages fall after the unemployment rate rises, because people/unions negotiating contracts cannot get raises in new contracts because they are concerned about keeping the jobs they have. Wages are a lagging indicator, not a leading one. He dismisses the true driver--employment. What would you say about an economy where real wages were falling 0.5% per year, but employment was growing 3.5% per year. Wages and salaries are rising 3% per year and the economy hums along quite nicely especially if productivty is growing 2.5%. Employment growth + output per worker growth = output growth (or GDP growth). In this example 3.5% +2.5%=6% (booming).

    1. As for the advance GDP release there are a LOT of holes in the numbers from the BEA out Friday. What was FEMA doing in Q4-spending a shit lot of money for hurricane relief. One cannot find it in the GDP numbers and is about 1 percentage point off GDP growth rate.

    2.What was the aircraft industry doing in September? Damn little because Boeing was on strike for 3.5 weeks and not shipping airplanes. Q4 saw a lot of Boeing hiring for those record orders, and lots of production. Aircraft production dropped 15.4% (annualized in q3) and rose 41.4% annualized in q4. The planes were made, but were not exported, did not displace imports, and did not become investment, and did not go into inventories. Where the hell did this go?
    3. Motor vehicles are also missing some GDP.
    4. There is also a similar issue of lost energy production in the Gulf of Mexico. Imports came in to compensate, but did not go into inventories and did not go into consumption.

    Bottom line: q3 was probably not a strong as reported (4.1%), and q4 was almost certainly stronger than reported Friday (1.1%). The BEA methodology sucks at shock points, especially when it comes to the advance estimate where 3 vital pieces of the puzzle are pure estimates. Moral: do not hang your hat on that 1.1% estimate as likely to be there a month from now, and even if it were it is noise, not a sustainable pace-the average of 4.1 and 1.1 (2.6%) is probably closer to the truth.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    actually the point comes from the new book's author Joseph Ellis, which Mi. Maudlin paraphrases ...







    which according to Ahead of the Curve's author results in analysts falling into 'The Unemployment Trap' i.e. putting little emphasis on consumer spending but placiong much emphasis on unemployment numbers which are actually 'behind the curve'



    Just for the sake of discussion, today many would argue that real wages have effected a major 'disconnect' from the official US unemployment rate. This would particularly appear to be the case in the union 'employment vs wages' point you attempt to raise. It is arguable that due to globalization, outsourcing, H1B imported talent, unionized employers who are no longer afraid to implement permanent layoffs in unionized US industries etc., that unions are no longer in a position to bargain higher wages vs higher/steady employment as they could in the past, and that unions are instead in damage control mode negotiating lower wages with lower employment, versus steady wages with much lower employment, versus higher wages and no employment.

    Thus in many cases laid off employees are forced to accept employment at wage levels significantly lower than their previous job - which creates falling real wages in an environment of steady or even falling unemployment. This in effect guarantees that any financial prognostications based on a former 'employment vs wages' assumption that no longer holds true in today's globalizing US economy will also be in error. As Mr. Ellis's charts point out, according to Mr. Ellis downturns in US stock market performance actually begin when unemployment numbers are at their very lowest levels for the cycle, and that US stock markets are typically well into a decline before unemployment numbers begin to rise and 'confirm' the downturn in the US economy. Thus as Mr. Maudlin points out, investors that wait for the traditional rise in unemployment as their signal that the US economy / stock markets are in trouble will have already taken a major 'hit' by the time that traditional signal arrives.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-29-2006 at 11:33 AM.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    The United States is in the middle of a vast resetting of wages for the vast majority of workers. It is true that those with extra training on high priority skills (which seem to change with technology every five years), can do better in changing jobs. The Wall Street Journal TV report today showed that the average new job in the US for the past five years pays on average of $9000 a year less than a job that was discontinued, outsourced, laid off or quit.

    Globalization means people elsewhere in China, India, Malaysia (maybe) will at last start to see their lives improve. Unfortunatley that will be at the expense of US workers and Western European workers. I've heard the argument that brining up China and India
    into the 21st centruy and giving their people hope is better than having to fight them in
    a nuclear age.

    The answer for elections in November 2006 is simple. Its really a shame that the democrats
    keep harping on the war, because sometimes Republics have to initiate wars throughout history. The Islamic nazis would have to have been stopped somewhere... so the war in Iraq and NSA bugging to me is not the issue. That the war has been mis handled and the administration is incompetant and blinded by their own right wing philosophy is a big issue.

    "But I digress. The question is simple. "Are you and your family better off now (Nov. 2006) than you were six years ago in 2000.?" When it comes to working conditions, employment security, wages, and health care, plus pension security and corporations stealing 401 k (and similar) money and not funding pensions the answer will be a resounding NO. (perhaps the word stealing pensions is too harsh. They are pushing that on the government dole along with health care.) Don't forget the repluclicans not yet dead attempt to water down social security. I wonder how people from bankrupt companies feel aboyut having their pensions cut, no health care that they were promised and reduced social security at the same time? This would probably hit people in their 40's especially
    hard as they have less time to recover.

    When the question on the economy is split into parts relating to economic retirement security, then the economy answers on the polls start to make sense.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    I wonder how people from bankrupt companies feel aboyut having their pensions cut, no health care that they were promised and reduced social security at the same time? This would probably hit people in their 40's especially
    hard as they have less time to recover.

    When the question on the economy is split into parts relating to economic retirement security, then the economy answers on the polls start to make sense.
    Ah yes, but the 'flip side' of this is young workers in their 20's and 30's who are already being charged much higher Social Security and income tax rates than the previous generation was at that stage of their lives, and who are facing much higher 'fixed costs' of housing, cars etc. than past generations did, and are therefore unable to save any money toward a better future while still maintaining an 'acceptable' lifestyle.

    Near-retirees in their 50's and 60's clamoring for an increase in Social Security and general income taxes in order to fund the Social Security and defunct pension plan benefits (via PBC) they were promised can in fact only receive them if an even higher tax burden is placed on young workers. These young workers are already going to see a major increase in their tax burden circa 2014 when the Social Security Administration starts cashing in those 'special bonds' it has been issuing to the general revenue side of the US budget to allow US politicians to spend the 'Social Security surplus' without having to raise general tax rates. These young workers are also likely to see steadily increasing state and local tax rates with each passing year, driven in large part by state/local costs of providing social benefits. Meanwhile, the real earnings of younger workers will be growing very slowly if at all, as US wage levels continue to 'reset' downward and closer towards parity with Mexico, India and China.

    IMHO, at some point within the next 10 years, many younger workers are going to figure out that continuing to work and carry this increased tax burden basically creates no better of a lifestyle for themselves than if they don't work and collect social benefits instead. At that point, either a political war between the generations will erupt, or the US economy as we know it will fall apart.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    I wonder what the loss ratio is for all the illegal workers who work here, are not citizens,
    but pay social security taxes into the system. There are many workers who are not here
    from age 20 to age 62, and leave to go back to Mexico or South America in ten to twenty years. I beleive they are not eligible to receive social security so their social security tax money goes to suporrt everyone else. I'll bet those projections and "loss of benefit
    confiscations" (I don't know what else to call it so I created that term) go to all the rest of us. I'll bet that the more illegals there are the more social security taxes are paid
    on fake social security numbers by various payroll departments. Obviously a social security tax account on a fake number is confiscated by the government and not returned.

    I suspect this is a large amount of money into the system that is not counted in the dire
    predictions.

    Looks like the forty years olds will wake up soon. They are the ones in really bad shape with the bankrupt companies cutting defined benefit pensions, 401Ks entirely invested in bankrupt company stock (bankrupt= zero value on bankrupt stock), and failed companies
    cutting off thier helath benefits and prescription coverage because there is no
    federal guarantee insurance fund on helath benefits that are cut out and eliminated by companies at all.

    All that is left is social security for these people 40 to 49, along with the rest of us over
    50. The people who are in thier 40's are getting screwed four ways. Let me list them:

    1. Discontinued and sometimes eliminated defined benefit pensions.
    2. Value of defined contribution 401 k like fund going down to close to zero
    on companies that are bankrupt. Very little diversification into non company stock investments. It's Enron all over again.
    3 Their health insurance is cut off and so are the prescription benefits. Got to hurt
    families in their 40's.
    4. Under the cut social security plan, only those at age 55 and over have the old
    system maintained. Under that its a big time cut in benefits.

    Time passes in only one direction for us all ...forward. Those who are 25 now
    will hit 55 before they know it.

    The truth is the total pension oblicgation from all sources in the US is much lower than Europe. e have a mixture of private pensions, private self funded 401 ks. Social
    security in out country is much lower as a per cent of total pension payments than any
    European country that is developed. And the Europeans have better (but more expensive
    single payer non insurance bureacracy) health insurance.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Awesome replies by both Monty & NiceGuy. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the comments by Monty and I am glad to have Niceguy on board here now as well. Monty, honey would you accept a mod position if it was offered ? PLEASE!!!!!!!!

    I am only 30 but my husband is 44 and we can't wait to get out from under the big Corporate strangle hold that is threatening our future.

    My husband's current company used to be a great place to work until a huge corporate conglomerate took over 2 years ago. Ever since things have been slowly getting worse and worse.

    We are looking forward to the new job out west where we will be in a independent contractor position and hopefully in 5 years be co-owners of the business. At least then we will have more control of our situation and have to deal with many of the things discussed here ALOT less.

    None of us will ever escape all the problems that the current government and it's ties and loyalty to big business have created or made 100x worse . However getting out from under their thumb even a little bit makes a huge difference.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Thanks for the nice words. Being forty ish in the US is now like being 50 ish in the 1980's.
    I'm speaking mostly on the cutback in pensions and benefits, but also age discrimination may be moving down from those 50 to those in their 40's. If you were 42 in the year 2000
    you are now 48 with limited prospects and benefits declining. Your morale sucks because
    your employer would prefer to get rid of you and replace you with someone more
    "cost effective."

    Healthwise and appearance wise, age is changing. If you are 50, you now look and act 40
    and of course will live at least until 80 and perhaps 90. If you are 40 you feel and act like
    my grandparents did in their late 20's.

    The two trend lines are going away from each other and the outcome will cause
    a political earthquake and perhaps and economic one.

    My post on the proposed US budget having a provision to mint "gold like" (but not gold) $5, $10 and $20 coins has disappeared. I may post this as a new thread.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    I wonder what the loss ratio is for all the illegal workers who work here, are not citizens,
    but pay social security taxes into the system. There are many workers who are not here
    from age 20 to age 62, and leave to go back to Mexico or South America in ten to twenty years. I beleive they are not eligible to receive social security so their social security tax money goes to suporrt everyone else. I'll bet those projections and "loss of benefit
    confiscations" (I don't know what else to call it so I created that term) go to all the rest of us. I'll bet that the more illegals there are the more social security taxes are paid
    on fake social security numbers by various payroll departments. Obviously a social security tax account on a fake number is confiscated by the government and not returned.
    According to a news story which came out some time ago, the IRS admitted that there were millions of cases of Social Security numbers given by 'employees' to 'employers' which did not verify as belonging to living US citizens. Yes social security, medicare and income taxes were withheld from these bogus 'employees' by their 'employer' and sent into the IRS. Yes, if there is no living US citizen corresponding to this social security, medicare and income tax money, then that money is forfeit and can be used for any purpose the gov't chooses.

    However, there is the matter that these taxes are based on a percentage of income. Thus an illegal alien who has given his 'employer' a ficticious SSI number pays in 15% (employer + employee) on a near minimum wage income i.e. $15,000 per year. On the other hand, the vast majority of the 38,000 permanent layoffs announced by Ford and Kraft within the past week are currently paying in 15% (employer + employee) to the $90,000 annual SSI ceiling. Thus if you only count the same Social Security pocket, it takes six new illegal aliens working 'on the books' to replace the SSI revenue lost from every Ford / Kraft / high paying white collar job that is permanently lost/outsourced.

    However, if you count more than one 'pocket', i.e. state and local taxes, then an entirely different story exists. In the case of illegal aliens working 'on the books', the amount of state income tax, local property and sales tax etc. paid in by each 'employee' falls far short of the additional costs created for state and local govt's by that illegal alien family. These additional state and local gov't costs of course stem from emergency medical treatment, public schools/state colleges, law enforcement, and in some states additional social benefits as well. Obviously, these additional costs must be met by enacting high state income tax, property tax, and sales tax rates which increase the 'fixed costs' that legal US citizens from that state and local area must pay.

    A recent analysis claims that the costs of providing such services to illegal aliens will cost the state of California alone over 10 BILLION dollars this year (not to mention a Federal share cost in the billions as well). Thus even if there are 100,000 illegal aliens working 'on the books in California' at $15-20,000 per year minimum wage jobs, their ENTIRE GROSS INCOMES combined only totals 1.5-2 billion dollars, and their state income and property tax contribution is a tiny percentage of that amount ! The shortfall of course winds up squarely on the shoulders of legal California taxpayers, who according to the article below must be overtaxed to the tune of $1183 per family to make up for the massive difference between the costs illegal aliens create and the 'sacrificed' tax revenues collected from illegal aliens working 'on the books'. Of course, illegal aliens working off the books contribute nothing to either the social security system or to fed/state/local tax revenues, but still create the same magnitude of costs for the federal, state and local govt's.


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-30-2006 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    but back on topic ...

    "AP
    Wages Up by Smallest Amount in Nine Years

    Tuesday January 31, 8:48 am ET
    By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
    Wages and Benefits Paid to Civilian Workers Rise by the Smallest Amount in Nine Years


    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wages and benefits paid to civilian workers rose last year by the smallest amount in nine years, the government reported Tuesday.
    The Labor Department said that employee compensation was up 3.1 percent in 2005, an increase that was slower than the 3.7 percent rise in 2004. The slowdown reflected a big drop in benefit costs -- items such as health insurance and pensions -- which rose by 4.5 percent last year after jumping by 6.9 percent in 2004.

    The new Employment Compensation Index should ease concerns at the Federal Reserve that improving labor markets could be starting to push up wage pressures. Wages and salaries rose by 2.6 percent last year, only slightly higher than a 2.4 percent increase in 2004.

    The 3.1 percent increase in total compensation for the 12 months ending in December was the smallest annual increase since a 2.9 percent rise in 1996.

    Last year's increase was not enough to keep up with inflation. When inflation is considered, overall compensation fell by 0.3 percent, the first time there has been a decline since 1996, when total compensation after adjusting for inflation was down by 0.4 percent.

    For the final three months of the year, total compensation was up 0.8 percent, the same increase as in the July-September quarter, and a rise that was in line with Wall Street expectations.

    Wages and salaries in the fourth quarter rose by 0.8 percent, compared to a 0.6 percent increase in the third quarter, while benefit costs were up 1.1 percent, slightly below the 1.3 percent rise in the third quarter.

    The Federal Reserve is keeping a close watch on wage pressures given the strong growth in the labor market in the past two years. While increases in the number of people working is good for the country, the concern at the Fed is that the economy could be growing so strongly that wage pressures will mount and trigger a rise in inflation.

    The central bank, which was meeting on Tuesday, has been boosting interest rates since June 2004 to slow growth enough to keep inflation under control.

    The report showed that there was a slowing of benefit costs in 2005 as employers struggled to deal with surging health costs. The 4.5 percent rise in the cost of benefits was the smallest increase since 1999. In the past two years, benefit costs surged by 6.3 percent in 2003 and 6.9 percent in 2004 as health care insurance premiums soared.

    The increase in wages of 2.6 percent last year was only slightly higher than a 2.4 percent increase in 2004 and was below gains of 2.9 percent in both 2002 and 2003."

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    I agree that jobs loss by Ford and GM are going to cause big problems. However the point of my discussion on the "extra" money going into the non existent social security "trust fund" (That will be another thread), is not in the dire social security projections.

    I'm convinced the democrats have a death wish. Maybe they are not able to do financial analysis or comparisons world wide (called "bench marking" in corporate america.

    The social security projects to change the system are the worst worst case scenario.
    The motivation behind the change comes from political philosphy not the economic worst case. Comparing the US pension and social security system to Europe and perhaps Japan will show we are in much better shape both demographicaly and in actual society cost.

    I suggest the democrats hire us early retired (outsourced) former republican analysts to
    help them out on the number review.

    Bottom line. (From Chicago point of view.) "Hey. Don't you guys realize the numbers showing the system is hopeless are cooked?" You need to get the books and look at them yourself.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Again I really don't want to get political, but the 'tin foil hat' conspiracy theorists tend to think that Democrats WANT the Social Security system as we know it to fail. If/when that happens, the screaming Social Security recipients and the screaming Social Security taxpayers will probably accept a new proposal from Democrats which 'guarantees' that nobody starves to death and also that no young average earners are taxed to death. That new proposal will likely be to add a 'means test' to Social Security benefit eligibility. The effect of a 'means test' will be that SSI tax rates on young average earners won't have to be increased drastically, and will also mean that the poorest retires won't see their SSI benefits reduced. Of course this will happen at the expense of retirees who have scrimped and saved to put their own money into 401k's, IRA's and other retirement savings plans - as under the new proposal these retirees will fail the 'means test' and will lose their eligibility for full Social Security benefits until they have spent all of their own retirement money first !

    The inevitable demographics leading to a Social Security 'means test' makes me wary of putting too much of my money into an IRA ... because it's very possible that 25 years from now I'll discover that I'll actually be losing a dollar out of my Social Security benefit check for every dollar I have contributed to my IRA.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    The AP story misstates what the ECI is. It is distinctly NOT "Wages and benefits paid to civilian workers " as the article begins. The employment cost index measures what the typical worker in the typical job (sort of a constant quality job and a constant quality worker) costs the employer. IT does not reflect the fact that workers change over time. A 21 year old with no experience becomes a 22 year old with one year's experience. The ECI measures compensation from the employer's perspective, not from the employees perspective.

    The recitation of facts is accurate and the comparison of historical percentage changes is accurate. It is not what the typical worker got, however. The author destroyed the whole point of the ECI by stating it was something other than what it is. the reason the ECI is so important is because of the benefits information. The slowing of growth in benefit costs in the private sector is very good news as it reflects the fact that medical costs pressures are easing.

    The ECI has some major problems as a measure of employer compensation since it is a fixed weighted index http://stats.bls.gov/ncs/methodology.htm
    It is NOT what the AP article says it is, however. Wages and salaries actually rose faster in 2005 than in 2004 (barely, but not a decline)
    http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/eci.pdf Table B

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Except for wage earners in the US who quit, or were laid off and then obtained new jobs
    earned $9,000 a year less than their old jobs even with more experience.

    If this trend continues with the looming Ford, GM and Kraft Inc. layoffs it will have a big negative effect.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Wages and salaries actually rose faster in 2005 than in 2004 (barely, but not a decline)
    It always seems to be the case with gov't statistics that somebody isn't 'weighting' or 'hedonically adjusting' the numbers properly, or that somebody isn't incorporating the right numbers here and disregarding the right numbers there, doesn't it !

    At any rate, if you interpret the phrase 'real earnings' to mean inflation adjusted earnings, then it is arguable that 2005 wage growth declined vs 2004, since even the official CPI numbers picked up pretty good in 2005.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Melonie,

    Even you realize that the mix of the jobs in the economy has changed in the past 15 YEARS.
    Since December 1994, 1990 employment counts from the Bureau's Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) program have been used.
    Since the article dealt only with nominal wage concepts, my comments were about nominal wage concepts. There is no doubt that the energy spike reduced purchasing power of wages in 2005, but that was not in the article. Note also that the last paragraph of the AP article directly contradicts the headline of the article.

    My point is that imperfect statistics cannot be used for fine comparisons of year A vs year B, especially when a third issue (price measurements) is thrown on top of that. One cannot use a hammer as a screwdriver, or vice versa.

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    There is no doubt that the energy spike reduced purchasing power of wages in 2005, but that was not in the article. Note also that the last paragraph of the AP article directly contradicts the headline of the article.

    My point is that imperfect statistics cannot be used for fine comparisons of year A vs year B, especially when a third issue (price measurements) is thrown on top of that. One cannot use a hammer as a screwdriver, or vice versa.
    Nominally true, but everything goes back to the original subject of this thread and the key assumption/assertion that the author of 'Ahead of the Curve' attempts to make ... that 'real wages' are now a very effective leading indicator of economic activity, stock market prices etc. , and (as you just agreed to above) that real wages are declining.

    I also agree with you that 'imperfect' statistics can lead to 'muddy' conclusions. But I would argue that all statistics collected, adjusted, and digested by someone other than the 'end user' are imperfect in one form or another. 'Tin foil hat' conspiracy theorists are of the opinion that the US' govt's statistics on CPI and wages are particularly 'muddy', because the US gov't has a huge financial stake in the resulting numbers (i.e. SSI benefit COLA's, federal pay COLA's etc.)

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Well whats a closet economist to do then? if the numbers are "cooked" at worst, or just
    inaccurate at best then you come on anecdotal evidence. Wandering around the midwest
    wages are becoming globalized. From what I see family income is declining. Those families who maxed out credit cards and keep pulling cash out with home equity loans are facing
    a classic deflation scenario of flat or declining income with large debt fixed obligations
    in nominal dollars.

    Now I am not claiming deflation. You can't have deflation when we are about to have more
    oil induced inflation which is what the gold and metal commodity market are screaming.

    China seems to export deflation in wages and benefits and with the low currency fixed conversion to the dollar.

    It appears that this might be worse for mid america then deflation. Flat or declining wages,
    increasing or flat debt obligations, and increasing prices for energy and food. When I talk with people who work out here things are NOT GOOD. The trend appears to continue downward.

    As you are both in the New York area, it is doing fine, unlike the early 1990's when the north east had real jobs problem. The midwest has a real jobs problem that is getting worse. Chicago has half the growth rate in jobs that the other top ten cities have.
    The good news is at least it is positive compare to some other midwest cities.

    Chicago is not the big city mecca for employment that it was in the 1960's or 1970's.
    My advice for kids from Iowa and Nebraska is not to come here right now to get ahead.
    The place to go is obviously Florida or Arizona. Texas may be a great place in the old
    oil areas if oil prices continue to go up. I'll have to think a bit on that one, because
    more of the oil revenue is going to the mideast not Texas.

    The economy is very good if you've got a growth industry job. (Right now tech is
    still over supplied with workers). If you are in a traditional company job there is no growth
    and extreme over capacity and your income is being "globalized."

    To parphrase Martin Luther King there aren't just two America's.. there seem to be three large groups of Americas.

    Those employed and doing well. Those employed and not doing well and sinking. And those at the bottom who can't even get employed at all. Georgia Florida part of Alabama seem to be doing well. Parts of the west are doing well. At any rate that is my observation.
    I can't quote you numbers because the numbers are "N.A."

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    Default Re: weekend commentary - Ahead of the Curve

    Found this on the Stripper Web news area from a newspaper in NashvilleTennesee date Jan. 31st 2006.

    New hires at Nissan won't get pensions (HEADLINE)
    People hired at Nissan North America after Jan. 1 won't have a company pension when they retire. And Nissan employees and retirees who didn't reach age 65 by the end of last year won't be included in a company-sponsored medical plan once they reach 65.

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