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Thread: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

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    Default Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, but I must get opinions. I'm in this group on Myspace.com for ballet. I happen to take ballet as well as having been a dancer.

    Someone posted a rather mean-spirited post about how strippers shouldn't call themselves dancers, along with all the crap about how degrading and stupid a job it is. That doesn't bother me, but it really bothers me if I do ballet and dance in a club, I'm not serious about ballet.

    Am I the only dancer who is also a modern dancer and ballet dancer? Why is it that ballet dancers think they have a monopoly on the word?

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    Featured Member exotica17's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Ignorance.

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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Seriously, though, learning ballet and learning pole work were both difficult and required time and discipline! Learning pointe was a lot like learning to move in six inch platforms.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Working as an ex-theatre type, I can say "prima donna" is associated with ballet for a reason. I wouldn't take what they say worth a spit.

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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Sweetheart; I know exactly what you mean. I was trained in ballet; jazz and a bit of tap from the time I was five until I was 15; then joined the "flag corps"--and we had a hell of a teacher. Then I moved up to DCI for one year at 19 (Drum Corps International) and had the extreme honor to be taught by an instructor from the Alvin Ailey School. I am not in any way accomplished anymore (32 now) but still carry myself "that way". I understand these women think that what we do is not dancing...but if they tried to do it; using the regular 5 inch heels and polework; they would find it takes a skill level all it's own.
    Did you ever see the feature Serenity dance? She was classically trained and did half her show sans shoes of any kind. Pure poetry in motion..she just happened to be naked.
    That being said; these little wannabe strippers that are all over the place today DO NOT have any skill. Make sure you point this out to the naysayers. Those of us who came up in the late 80s and 90s--even to 4 years ago--know the difference. I'm sure you do to.
    You probably are not going to change their mind; but don't worry---WE know. Someday others will understand..probably when we are 80. Just look at those lovely burlesque stars..they thought WE were crass. Hate to hear what they think of today's crop of lazy girls.
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    Veteran Member Feiticeira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I love modern dance. Screw them and their close minded thoughts. People like that needn't be given the benefit of justifying their stereotypes.

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    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    You can codify the moves strippers do--I have and I teach them.

    I took a friend of mine who is a classically trained dancer and an award-winning neo-burlesque superstar into a dive strip joint that I had loved working in, and even without poles and acrobatics and big theatrics, she saw what I was talking about--that there are repeated deliberate and characteristic moves, even when there's no choreography.

    Not all strippers particularly care about dance, and I'm not saying they should, but that's not to say that stripping can't be practiced as a form of dance.

    But people love to argue about definitions. On some level, everybody with a passion for something is a bit of a Trekkie, arguing about whether the aliens in episode 900000078 were the same ones as in episode 90000079.

    n 1: an artistic form of nonverbal communication 2: a party of people assembled for dancing 3: taking a series of rhythmical steps (and movements) in time to music
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    God/dess Nautilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    i still do ballet. it's hard to keep your butt in and clenched up after sticking it out and swinging it for so long.

    ha.

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    exotisch23
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Quote Originally Posted by prrfektwurld
    Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, but I must get opinions. I'm in this group on Myspace.com for ballet. I happen to take ballet as well as having been a dancer.

    Someone posted a rather mean-spirited post about how strippers shouldn't call themselves dancers, along with all the crap about how degrading and stupid a job it is. That doesn't bother me, but it really bothers me if I do ballet and dance in a club, I'm not serious about ballet.

    Am I the only dancer who is also a modern dancer and ballet dancer? Why is it that ballet dancers think they have a monopoly on the word?
    IGNORE those fuckers!! I've dealt with so many of them on there.. they have no lives. It's pretty sad.

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    exotisch23
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I used to take ballet when I was younger & people always tell me how graceful I look on stage so I think that's a great combination if you can integrate into your routine somehow.

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    Veteran Member logan820's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    then what should we call ourselves?

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    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    ^ Hotter than ballerinas.

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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I call myself an entertainer. It's not because I don't want to offend anyone, it's because I believe we do way more than just dance to earn our living. How many ballerinas know how to hustle for private dances, hold decent conversations with complete stangers and turn into a fantasy while wearing six inch heels?

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    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Is it just me or does anyone else get the strong urge to shove their knee into the nose of people who say shit like that?!
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    God/dess Nautilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    my ex bf always called my ballet 'dirty stretching' anyway...

    those clowns are just in denial...

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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    I call myself an entertainer. It's not because I don't want to offend anyone, it's because I believe we do way more than just dance to earn our living. How many ballerinas know how to hustle for private dances, hold decent conversations with complete stangers and turn into a fantasy while wearing six inch heels?
    I agree with this. I also think that although dancing is involved, stripping isn't really dancing. Burlesque, cabaret style strip shows, yes. But i really don't think shaking your ass in a club warrants the title 'dancer'. IMHO.

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    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Just because someone's a bad dancer doesn't mean they're not a dancer.

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    Featured Member Crow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Not meant to offend - Most of the so called professional ballet dancers I've run into were skinny, anorexic, tit less bitches who had sticks stuck up their ass and through that the sun moon and stars revolved around their scrawny behinds.

    Just because men drool over us and we get paid more money and we can eat whatever we want doesn't make us non-dancers. I'd like to see one of those twiggy persons put a thong on and put on my shoes and go make money.

    Not?

    I had a classmate that took ballet and she was the most hateful, mean spirited, bitchy young lady I had ever had the chance to meet. After that the ones I met were sort of carbon copies of her. Pfft's. I seriously would not worry about it and smile all the way to the bank. Some people are just born bitter.

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    Featured Member Lyssa Lynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I trained in ballet, jazz, tap, hip-hop, acro, lyrical, and modern. Only after many years (12) of serious training did I become a professional dancer. I traveled the world doing shows until I was injured. Thats when I became a stripper. It is two completely different worlds.

    Even after 8 years of stripping it still bothers me when a guy asks "how long have you been dancing?". I often correct his terminology and explain the difference.

    Honestly I think stripping is much harder to do. Dancers learn a shows choreograpy, get the costume changes down, and all that's left is putting on a good performance show after show. For the most part it's the same thing 2 shows a night, 6 nights a week.

    Stripping is much more involved. We have to be physically AND mentally AND emotionally strong.

    From my dancer point of view...anyone with decent looks could put on a G, a pair of platforms and find a club to make money in. To make a living dancing, you MUST have training and talent. Therefore it is wrong IMO for just anyone to title themselves Dancer.

    From my stripper point of view...we work hard and for those of us whom are good at what we do...we know there are dancers out there that wouldn't last a week in a club.

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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Okay - we are not "dancers" in that sense. Bottom line, we all know perfectly well that it doesn't take skill, ability, talent or training to exotic dance. I mean you may HAVE these things, you may even apply them - although, I've got to be honest, the women I've seen applying skills they learned in other kinds of dancing (except ballroom latin - that seems to translate pretty well) on a stripping stage look pretty dumb. That doesn't mean that they are necessary. Labelling dancers to whom that IS necessary as bitchy doesn't alter that fact in the slightest - incidentally the professional dancers I knew (all 3 of them - I don't move in dancey circles) were... very much the opposite. They were very weight conscious, yes, but stuck up and snooty? No. Raunchy and ribald and cut loose - and they do it all completely sober.
    Imagine: take your average exotic dancer and put her in the NYC ballet. Now take your average NYC ballet dancer and put her on stage in a strip club. Neither may do as well as the other in her home environment - but which one does better?

    On the other hand, "dancing" has a wide meaning. Shuffling your feet side to side in a club is dancing, in a very real sense (as in I am not being sarcastic. That is real dancing). You can do the simplest box step and that is ballroom dancing, or you can do the most complicated quickstep - also ballroom dancing. We do dance on the stage - even those of us who just walk around do it rhythmically - or at least we try. Even lap dancing is done with rhythm and syncopation. And we are doing it professionally. However there is an undeniable difference between exotic dancers and other dancers.
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Quote Originally Posted by lildreamer316
    Then I moved up to DCI for one year at 19 (Drum Corps International) and had the extreme honor to be taught by an instructor from the Alvin Ailey School. ...
    Holy shit, lildreamer--I studied at the Ailey School in Manhattan for years!

    Yeah, I also had a lot of formal dance training before I started stripping. I never really danced professionally in modern/jazz because I lacked the extraordinary discipline, focus and drive that are required--You have to be willing to give up everything else in your life and just live to dance. I wasn't quite willing to do that.

    Obviously, "stripping" professionally doesn't require anything near that kind of intense commitment. So there's a big difference right there.

    Still, I often use "stripper" and "dancer" interchangeably--but in the case of the latter, I guess I'm using it as shorthand for "exotic dancer," or, in more recent years, "lapdancer." (I don't know about you guys, but the full phrase "exotic dancer" just sounds dopey to me--I mean, what's so "exotic" about being naked??) But I use "dancer" to refer to my job as a stripper primarily because "dancer" is gentler and less abrasive. "Stripper" carries more shock value....

    But I do run into trouble when I try to explain that I was a "dancer" before I was a "dancer."

    I think Lyssa and Jenny summed up the differences between the two meanings pretty handily.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I've danced professionally in other genres as well. I've danced for fun and for hobby, love of the artistic expression through dance movement. I stripped for the bucks. Enjoying the dancing on stage was just a benefit of the job, since I like taking my clothes off and being center of attention. Some strippers are amazing dancers, but I wouldn't call myself a dancer in reference to my stripping, unless "exotic" was coined beforehand.....

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    Featured Member Lizette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    I've not been able to agree with the term "exotic dancer." What do we do that is so "exotic?" We are not doing island rain dances. We striptease. Some of us cut to the chase. Others create a long seduction. As for the "dancer" part, it does not explain fully our jobs. We mingle with the crowd to get paid in exchange for company or a personally tailored "show." We must in some way be entertaining. My title can either be:

    1. stripper (stripteaser)
    2. entertainer

  24. #24
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Heh, "Flashdance" much? LOL

    I wanted to study ballet as a kid but my family had more important uses for disposable income, like putting food in the pantry. So getting to dance for a living even if I have to take my shirt off, is cake to me.
    Years ago I read about a working class girl (from San Jose) who worked her way up to a position in a major ballet company- and died of cardiac arrest in her early 20s. They found Ex-Lax in her bag & her teeth were all screwed up. Bulimia. Getting to the top of ballet dance killed her.

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    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apparently, we can't call ourselves dancers.

    Jenny--

    Right, I agree that great dance skill isn't required to get hired (and I don't think, historically, that it ever has been), but I think the implication she was wondering about was that it wasn't *possible* for there to be any dancing or any skill involved in working in a strip club. I say "I think" because I might be projecting similar comments that I've heard.

    Clarify: when I say that it isn't required, it's because I think that most of the money made is off of sales and interpersonal skills rather than standard dancing ability. BUT I think that artful stripping is definitely a form of dance that can be broken down into characteristic moves, even if it's not a strictly ordered discipline.
    Last edited by Jo Weldon; 02-05-2006 at 08:18 PM. Reason: more misspelling clarification
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